Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers

Subject: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: ejsant
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 12:47 PM

Greetings,

I came across this song and have been unable to find any information about the tune to which it was sung. No information about the song is given in the reference I have other than the title and verses.

It is a story about two young lovers, a rich farmer's son a "Roman" as well, William Reilly and the daughter Susan of what I am assuming to be a titled family or close thereto in the social hierarchy as she is betrayed by her maid in waiting.

When she is forbidden by her mother to marry her only true love she threatens to take her own life if denied her Willy's love. Susan's mother pretends to capitulate and tells her daughter to send for Reilly but secretly, not so as it turns out, charges the Steward to lie in wait for him to shoot him dead. He escapes with slight injury but not with-out shooting the Steward and a wounding two of the "Tighmon crew" that gave chase. The young maiden is taken prisoner and young Reilly whilst rescuing her shoots Sergeant Gore and they hightail it to Wexford and he goes to sea. Susan's father mortgages all his property in hopes of leaving her poor and she laments that she would deny her father's riches and surely beg the world over with her Roman boy.

I would welcome any information about the song and its origins as well as a melody. When time permits I will post the verses and my reference. Thank you as always for your time and assistance.

Peace,
Ed

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 05:23 PM

There are at least two songs of this title on 19 c. ballad sheets. James N Healy's "Old Irish Street Ballads Vol. 1". includes one with the story line and names you quote - or very similar. No tune given.

"Timmon"/"Tighmon" is probably Taghmon, not far from Wexford town.

Regards

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 06:12 PM

There are several copies in the Bodleian collection. It was called "a new song" in 1867, but is probably earlier. None has a tune specified.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: ejsant
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 07:56 AM

Greetings Martin and Q,

Thank you. I have the song as part of what Robert Wright put together in the collection Irish Emigrant Ballads and Songs in the 1970's. There is no reference to time of origin. This version of the song may have been collected over here which may explain any minor differences in the verses, especially the spelling of Taghmon.

I read the version in the Bodleian collection and that's the song I have with very minor differences. I was told that Paddy Barry (?) compiled two books of County Wexford songs. I'll try to find those and see if the song is in there.

Thank you both again.

Peace,
Ed

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 12:08 PM

Ed

I guessed you might be looking at Wright's version, alright! I don't have the book but had seen it in the index.

I have both of Paddy Berry's (it's spelt with an e!) books - the song isn't there, or not under that name anyway.

Regards

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: ejsant
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 12:54 PM

Greetings Martin,

Thanks for the correct spelling of Paddy's surname. Are his books worth pursuing?

I have a photo copy of Wright's book so if you need any lyrics let me know. I'm still looking to purchase a copy but have yet to turn one up. I even called the University that took over for Bowling Green University's Popular Press but they didn't have any records of any copies of the book coming to them when they took over.

Thanks again.

Peace,
Ed

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 01:48 PM

Some of these "songs" published in broadsides never had a tune. The singer would use a melody with the same meter and 'feel.' I couldn't find it in Sam Henry, but I only looked under Wexford.

If you find a specific tune that was used with "Wexford Lovers" let us know.

Place names often are rendered phonetically, or replaced with a name known to the singer or editor. Sometimes these names help to locate the area where the variant was sung.

You are lucky to have a photocopy of Wright's book. He collected several volumes of Scandinavian songs, which are easier to find.
Do you have the time to post an index to the songs in the volume?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 03:53 PM

Ed

Both of Paddy's books are worth having. They're full of local songs, good background, some tunes. I only recently managed to get copies for myself (courtesy of MARINER, whom I don't see round here much lately).

Both books are reasonably sturdy paperbacks. They're on my list of books I keep an eye out for in bookshops, with the intention of placing them in good homes!

Regards

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 04:00 PM

No sooner do I write that than MARINER appears on line! Thanks again....

Martin

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: ejsant
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 04:06 PM

Greetings Q,

I will get to work on posting the index of songs in Wright's book. Hopefully one day I will have the great fortune of adding the book itself to my library.

Greetings Martin,

Thank you for your council I will start looking for the books as well. Please do let me know if you turn a copy of either up as I would be proud to offer a home to it in my library.

Again thank you both for your help.

Peace,
Ed

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: ejsant
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 11:09 AM

Greetings Q,

I posted the first chapter's index of songs here. There are ten chapters in all so this may take awhile.

Peace,
Ed

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: ejsant
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 01:16 PM

Greetings Martin,

I visited Paddy Berry's website and found his second book entitled "More Wexford Ballads" is still available for purchase. There are also two CDs available that have over 40 songs between the two. I also gathered enough courage to email Paddy and he informed me that the first book has been out of print for so long that there are none available new. I will order the second book from him so if you turn up the first I would still be interested.

Paddy wasn't sure that "The Wexford Lovers" was a County Wexford song but in doing further research I found that it may be a variation of the song "Susan & Young Riley". Both tell basically the same tale and seem to be set in the same place and time. There are minor differences. The phrasing seems different but this is based solely on the structure as printed, not that I have listened to a recording of the two versions to compare. Paddy was unaware of any particular air for the song.

I apologize if my rambling seems sophomoric. Actually in my view sophomoric would be a graduation as I view myself as being in the primary school grades of Irish song.

Thank you and everyone for their patience as I travel this path.

Peace,
Ed

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 06:21 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: GUEST,Aileen
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 06:12 PM

I wonder if Ed ever did track down an air for this song? I've been trying to uncover one for years. Couldn't believe it when I found it here under the name "Willie Riley", especially to such a beautiful air - and one which I don't recognise.

Lyrics:
Click here

Audio of first three verses here:
Click here

Enjoy,

Aileen.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 06:17 PM

Subject: ADD: Willie Riley
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 05:35 AM

This is from the link posted by Aileen above:

WILLIE RILEY

Ye tender maidens, I pray draw near
A feeling story you soon will hear
I'm daily pining with grief and woe
Since my young O'Riley to the sea must go.

In the city of Wexford, near to Tyrone,
My love was reared a poor farmer's son
I dearly loved him as l did my life
I was fully intended to be Riley's wife.

But to my misfortune, l went to walk
I sent for Reily to have a talk
I was betrayed by my waiting maid
She told my momma all l had said.

My Momma sent for me immediately,
Saying, "Suzy, Suzy, how can this be
That you're in love with a farmer's son?
When your father will hear it he'll distracted run.

"You know, my child, he's no match for thee
For a room and kettle (?) he can never agree
And before he'll have you brought to disgrace
I'll have Riely banished out of this place."

"Now, Momma, dearest, please pardon me
For I loves none but my young Riley
If I am prevented from being his wife
It's a sword or pistol will end my life."

"Oh, daughter darling, if that be so
You won't be prevented from being his wife
We'll send for Riley immediately
And when all is over, love, we'll agree."

Straight on board a ship then my Momma went
She told the steward for to charge a gun
And hide himself in the laurel tree
And to take the life of my young Riley.

Straightway to Riley I went that day
I told him all what my momma say
He was no coward, but came on speedily
The steward he fired in the laurel tree
And he grazed the shoulder o' my love Riley.

My love Riley, he stood manfully
And he shot the steward in the laurel tree
Then I was taken a pris'ner bound
When Riley missed me he turned around.

He called them cowards and was pursued
He fired again and he knocked down two.

My father mortgaged his property
In hopes he'd drive me to poverty
But his gold and silver I do despise
I would beg the world with my Catholic boy.

Sources: This song does not correspond to either Laws M9 or M10 which bears the same name. From the Memorial University Folklore and Language Archive (MUNFLA) Song Index and Song Annotation Collection: Knight, Margaret Bennet, MUNFLA 73-145.

Text: Suzy is in love with a Catholic farmer boy of whom her parents do not approve. Her mother appears to acquiesce when Suzy threatens suicide. The mother then hires a steward to shoot Willie. The assassin misses and Willie kills him. Suzy is then taken hostage, but Willie kills two of the kidnappers. As a last resort, her father mortgages the farm to keep the couple poor, but Suzy does not care as long as she is with her beloved Willie.

Tune: The text is through composed and the melody repeats with each verse. The last word is spoken. Speaking, instead of singing, a final word or phrase is generally thought to indicate Irish influence on the singer or song. The meter is variable with either five or six beats per textual line. The key is B natural minor.

Source: MacEdward Leach and the Songs of Atlantic Canada, http://www.mun.ca/folklore/leach/songs/NFLD2/15-04_51.htm

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 05:58 AM

In the audio, the first line of Verse 2 is pronounced "Wexford, near to Tyrone" - with the latter pronounced "Try-own". interesting. Assuming the Wexford makes any sense, the second may be "Taghmon", though this is normally pronounced with an "un" sound.

Paddy Berry, author of two excellent books of Wexford songs, is not familiar with this one, as far as I know.

Regards

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 07:01 AM

Martin, do you think this describes the same incident as that involving Squire Foillard's daughter in the Willie Reilly thread? Both involve a forbidden romance, but the locations are different.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Wexford Lovers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 07:18 AM

Dunno... Need to check both Laws and Roud to get a sense of the consensus, so to speak. Not one I"ve heard performed.

Regards