Meaning: With the girls be handy?

Subject: With the girls be handy???
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 07:58 PM

A 5-year old asked me what this meant. Friendly, maybe? It comes up in Yankee Doodle and the play party, "Oh Charley". Never gave it thought before. Thanks for your input. Sheila

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: GUEST,laura from BA
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:30 PM

Sheila, This is what immediately comes to mind. Any help?

Yankee Doodle went to town
A-riding on a pony
Stuck a feather in his hat
And called it macaroni.

Yankee Doodle, keep it up
Yankee Doodle dandy
Mind the music and the step
And with the girls be handy.

Father and I went down to camp
Along with Captain Gooding
And there we saw the men and boys
As thick as hasty pudding.

Yankee Doodle, keep it up
Yankee Doodle dandy
Mind the music and the step
And with the girls be handy

There was Captain Washington
Upon a slapping stallion
A-giving orders to his men
I guess there was a million.

Yankee Doodle, keep it up
Yankee Doodle dandy
Mind the music and the step
And with the girls be handy.

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: Louie Roy
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:32 PM

In my opinion Yankee Doodle was a womanizer and when he went to town he wanted the women to be at his beck and call.Other opinions I'm sure.Louie Roy

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:49 PM

"With the girls be handy" could mean many things but what immediately comes to my mind is "clever" or "nimble" rather than "friendly."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: Ferrara
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:53 PM

I agree with Charlie, more or less. I always interpreted it to say "Be successful in courting the ladies." A Macaroni was an overdressed dandy, always up to (or a little in advance of) the latest men's fashions. And notice it says "Mind the music and the step." IMHO our Yankee Doodle is being encouraged to be a sprightly and accomplished dancer who will appeal to the ladies.

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: Padre
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 08:59 PM

Save the next dance for me, Rita

Padre

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: sixtieschick
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:04 PM

There might be a clue in the "macaroni" and "dandy" parts: Upper class young men's educations were often completed with a Grand Tour, a trip to Italy to study classical Roman art and architecture. The boys were usually accompanied by servants, a tutor and a chaplain. Some returned with pretentious airs and were mockingly called "macaronis" for their association with Italy. Many of that class also dressed as dandies. Yankee Doodle evidently was both a dandy and a macaroni. I'd hazard a guess that "with the girls be handy" is an admonition to deport himself in female company with courtly manners, witty speech, skillful dancing, etc. Just a guess, though.

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:10 PM

Ive actually always thought there was something on the risque side for "handy" but didn't know how to tell a kindergardener. Are there any other references? Thanks all.

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 09:30 PM

From the American Heritage College Dictionary:

ADJECTIVE:        1. Being within easy reach: accessible, convenient, nearby. Idioms: close (or near) at hand, close by. See NEAR. 2. Exhibiting or possessing skill and ease in performance: adroit, clever, deft, dexterous, facile, nimble, slick. See ABILITY. 3. Serving or capable of serving a useful purpose: functional, practicable, practical, serviceable, useful, utilitarian. See USED.

Chaucer uses "hende" to describe Nicholas in "The Miller's Tale." In that, Nick is not only available, but demonstrates cleverness -- he is, in the American term, "slick." (If you don't understand this, read the "Miller's Tale.")

"With the girls be handy" can be read on several levels, including "good with his hands" in one of several bawdy senses. For a kindergartener, I'd suggest one of the non-bawdy meanings (unless you teach at a VERY progessive school indeed).

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: Amos
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 10:00 PM

Tell the child it means good at dancing; that is certainly correct in one sense, and an acceptable reality.

A

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:14 AM

Maybe the suggestion was that Yankee Doodle might offer his skills as a home repairman to the gratification of the ladies. They undoubtedly had numerous household objects that required maintenance.

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 12:27 AM

I have a recording of a set my father did back in the 1970s (?), lasting 10 minutes (at least) in which he traced the history of the song "Yankee Doodle." I hadn't thought of transcribing it, yet there have been a couple of occasions when I've sent tapes to people who were interested in his research, so it would be useful to do so. I'll trace this thread, and when I get it transcribed, I'll post it. There are lots of asides with tidbits of information that may well answer this and other questions.

Meanwhile, you can assume that the least flattering application of the term "handy" is the one that was intended by the man who wrote the song (in this instance, it would tend to imply promiscuity). The song was used as a form of derision before and during the Revolutionary War period.

SRS

Subject: RE: With the girls be handy???
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:27 AM

Lonesome EJ said:

Maybe the suggestion was that Yankee Doodle might offer his skills as a home repairman to the gratification of the ladies. They undoubtedly had numerous household objects that required maintenance.

You mean like The German Musicianer?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 03:52 PM

What does "Yankee Doodle keep it up" mean?

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 04:02 PM

Aboard the Ebenezer - Handy me boys so handy...

Get along boys, get along do,
Handy me boys, so handy.
Get along boys, get along do,
Handy me boys, so handy.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 04:10 PM

GUEST (further unidentified) asked:

What does "Yankee Doodle keep it up" mean?

Just the bawdy connotation that springs to one's mind, I'd say.

But of course GUEST may have had a tongue in cheek in posting that as a question.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 04:27 PM

I would venture to guess that Silly river sage uis probably the closest to correct. There was nothing complimentary about this song at all in it's initial form. The Colonials adopted it quite quickly just to drive the point that much further.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 05:11 PM

At junior school we used to dance long morris to 'Yankee Dandy' and sang the chorus as

'Yankee Doodle KICK it up'

Kicking twice, alternate feet on kick and up, and on the last line doing two large circles with the hands.

I am not sure that the last two lines are what we sang though - it is over 50 years ago now and my memory is not what it was.

I think that the third line also began with Yankee doodle.

Anne Croucher

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Gurney
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 08:48 PM

'Handsome' used to mean 'in a seamanlike manner, a craftsmanlike manner.' I think 'Handy' is the modern equivalent.

Never made much sense of the song, though. The whole thing sounds incomplete to me.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: GUEST,Crispinius
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 10:55 AM

Oxford English Dictionary ~ "Ready or clever with the hands; dexterous; able to turn the hand to anything."

Given the context of the song (a British satire of the uncouth Yankee rebels), the suggestive meanings of a couple of lines in the chourus are the most likely. One who is making a critique of his enemy isn't likely to advise him to be "helpful" or "handsome".

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 12:06 PM

Since he's a "dandy," he might be expected to be handy with the girls.

Or, since he's a fop, maybe he should stick on the sidelines with the girls, waiting for instructions from the non-fops.

Anyway, that's all the sense I've ever been able to make of it.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Megan L
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 12:19 PM

In innocence i took "Keep it up" to refer to the high wigs worn by macaronis as in this picture Macaroni
Dandy description at wiki

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: CapriUni
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 01:46 PM

And since this was originally a British song, mocking the Americans for being country yokels, I've always thought the line

"Stuck a feather in his cap and called it 'Macaroni'"

was to make the point that these Colonials wouldn't know what true finery was if it came up and sat on their heads... and the implication, I assume, was also that they wouldn't know how to talk up the girls, either...

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: GUEST,Guest Parent
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:05 AM

Yankee Doodle is being taught at our K class and a parent just posted a complaint about this line, so I had to look it up (I've always had a reaction to it without understanding the meaning of the song). Now I know it is not a benign, patriotic children's song, but rather a bellicose and sexist rant that was thrown about during war time. If the song won't be killed, I say reform the song (the tune is fine) with revised lyrics.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 07:14 AM

a parent just posted a complaint about this line

Good grief...

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 07:27 AM

You kids know that parents read this too...?

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 07:51 AM

The more I think about it, the more homophobic it becomes....

And "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer." There's nothing funny about alcoholism.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 09:35 AM

As for Little Miss Muffet, what a terrible role model!

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 09:45 AM

Yes. Entomologists know that most spiders are our friends.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: pdq
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 11:38 AM

That may be true, but most entomologist study insects, Class Insecta.

Spiders have eight legs (not six) and are in Class Arachnida.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:13 PM

Do arachnologists agree that the rhyme is offensive?

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:24 PM

Saints preserve us from "thinking parents" who jump to wildly wrong conclusions because they have no understanding of historical context, and now asking to bowdlerize "Yankee Doodle."

Banned Book Week just ended - I wonder if there is a Banned Song Week somewhere?

SRS

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Bert
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:53 PM

I've heard it sung...

Stuck a feather up his arse and called it macaroni.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 01:17 PM

I recommend "butt" as more euphonious. Yet, either way, the song is to be condemned as encouraging crude thoughts.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 01:48 PM

♫♪"Yank my doodle, it's a dandy..."♫♪


When properly viewed, everything's lewd

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 01:58 PM

See what it's done even to Bill?

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Gurney
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 03:01 PM

Bill, the Wizard of Oz WAS a dirty old man!

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 04:28 PM

Prince Harry- hairy what??

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: GUEST,Nick King
Date: 14 Apr 16 - 01:51 PM

I think "handy " is a misspelling and/or mis-pronounciation of the Chaucerian term "hende" meaning polite or courteous.

My guess seems logical to me especially since my understanding of the word hende means "polite" or "courteous" in Chacuerian English.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: GUEST,Dannosuke
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 11:18 PM

It means to be a good dance lead the previous line is context to this.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 08:38 AM

We can't possibly know what the writer had in mind precisely, and whilst there's nothing wrong with conjecture, that's all it can be.
All we can say for certain is that there are multiple possibilities.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Helen
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 09:39 AM

It reminds me of The Red Green Show

The closing line of each Handyman Corner segment: If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

Hubby used to watch this show and then he bought the complete set on video tape, which he now cannot play because tapes were superseded by DVD's. Very funny show! Dry, deadpan humour.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: meself
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:56 AM

If I say, It's a sunny day, there are multiple possibilities of meaning - but one meaning is obvious, and it just makes sense to take the obvious meaning, unless there is some compelling reason not to. Occam's razor, and all that .....

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 12:46 PM

I love Mudcat, the way people take a phrase out of the context of the song and read all sorts of obviously irrelevant meanings into it. Always good for a laugh.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Helen
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:07 PM

Well Guest, the line with the word "handy" does not especially fit the contextual meaning of the lyrics or that particular verse, however it does rhyme with Dandy, so maybe it was just put in there because the lyricist could not find a better phrase ending with a word rhyming with Dandy.

Other poets have scrabbled for rhyming words and had to make do with a line which was suboptimal. Better poets may more often arrive at beautifully crafted solutions but this song appears to have been written for a more popular audience as a tool to mock the Yankee Dandies.

Who can say?

If it gives an anonymous guest a laugh, perhaps it has achieved its purpose.

Helen

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: GUEST,paperback
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:35 PM

Maybe handy was a better choice then the edgier randy.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: meself
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:38 PM

To my mind it does seem to "fit the contextual meaning of the lyrics" of the chorus quite neatly. See the opening few posts of this thread.

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: Helen
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:50 PM

Yes, but the word "handy" is rarely used in that context, so it has a certain "square peg in a round hole" air about it, in my opinion. There was probably a better word but that word didn't rhyme with Dandy.

In the context of the revelations over the past few years of sexual misconduct by people in power or by celebrities, the word "handy" and the word "randy" seem to go hand in hand. Pun intended.

randy - and other Oz slang words

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 07:17 PM

Kind of hard to say when you don't know who is doing the writing and/or the singing ain't it? But anyway...

"Handy" to a soldier is proficient ie: Handy with a musket.

"Handy" to a sailor is convenient or readily at hand ie: A handy billy or tackle.

Both "doodle" and the "handy dandy" were references to getting fooled by the 'ol switcher (riddley) ro(o). Expectation-v-result &c.

When an 18th-19th century Yankee used them it might have been more along the lines of the supposed Cornwallis The World Turned Upside Down fiasco (also mostly Yank urban legend.)

Subject: RE: Meaning: With the girls be handy?
From: GUEST,Lou Judson
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 09:24 PM

Might I be quite literal from my own experience? If you are "handy" at getting her off she will not get pregnant, using your hands. And it is less messy. even with clothes on!

Yank that doodle, think about it.