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Folk artists who are pagan

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ALLSOULS NIGHT
LORD OF THE DANCE (PAGAN)
O, SAVE US FROM FAUX PAGANS (Or, Observations at a Renaissance Faire)


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In Mudcat MIDIs:
Heretic Heart [Catherine Madsen]


open mike 26 Apr 05 - 01:38 AM
Dave Hanson 26 Apr 05 - 02:35 AM
GUEST,MBSLynne 26 Apr 05 - 02:51 AM
treewind 26 Apr 05 - 04:03 AM
MBSLynne 26 Apr 05 - 05:17 AM
GUEST,Dáithí Ó Geanainn 26 Apr 05 - 05:37 AM
GUEST,Cats 26 Apr 05 - 05:40 AM
Micca 26 Apr 05 - 06:53 AM
Micca 26 Apr 05 - 06:56 AM
Dipsodeb 26 Apr 05 - 08:06 AM
Mrs_Annie 26 Apr 05 - 08:10 AM
GUEST 26 Apr 05 - 08:19 AM
GUEST 26 Apr 05 - 08:25 AM
GUEST 26 Apr 05 - 08:43 AM
treewind 26 Apr 05 - 08:52 AM
Barbara 26 Apr 05 - 09:07 AM
Blackcatter 26 Apr 05 - 09:31 AM
Emma B 26 Apr 05 - 09:34 AM
open mike 26 Apr 05 - 01:12 PM
Haruo 26 Apr 05 - 01:23 PM
treewind 26 Apr 05 - 01:39 PM
PoppaGator 26 Apr 05 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,26 Apr 05 - 08:25 AM 26 Apr 05 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,26 Apr 05 - 03:03 PM 26 Apr 05 - 03:13 PM
Schwa 26 Apr 05 - 03:29 PM
fat B****rd 26 Apr 05 - 03:37 PM
MBSLynne 26 Apr 05 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,Susan Urban 26 Apr 05 - 04:29 PM
Haruo 26 Apr 05 - 04:30 PM
Herga Kitty 26 Apr 05 - 04:43 PM
Blackcatter 26 Apr 05 - 04:45 PM
Blissfully Ignorant 26 Apr 05 - 04:47 PM
My guru always said 26 Apr 05 - 05:18 PM
Polly Squeezebox 26 Apr 05 - 06:01 PM
open mike 26 Apr 05 - 11:55 PM
Dave Hanson 27 Apr 05 - 04:24 AM
Liz the Squeak 27 Apr 05 - 04:44 AM
GUEST,Nellie Clatt 27 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM
MBSLynne 27 Apr 05 - 07:23 AM
Blackcatter 27 Apr 05 - 09:36 AM
GUEST 27 Apr 05 - 09:54 AM
Polly Squeezebox 27 Apr 05 - 04:27 PM
mandoleer 27 Apr 05 - 04:27 PM
Blackcatter 27 Apr 05 - 10:57 PM
coldjam 27 Apr 05 - 11:43 PM
Barbara 27 Apr 05 - 11:57 PM
Amos 28 Apr 05 - 01:38 AM
GUEST 28 Apr 05 - 08:07 AM
Blackcatter 28 Apr 05 - 09:41 AM
Barbara 28 Apr 05 - 12:30 PM
EagleWing 28 Apr 05 - 12:42 PM
Liz the Squeak 28 Apr 05 - 12:44 PM
GUEST 28 Apr 05 - 02:34 PM
PoppaGator 28 Apr 05 - 02:59 PM
Raedwulf 28 Apr 05 - 03:04 PM
JeZeBeL 28 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM
GUEST 28 Apr 05 - 03:34 PM
Gorgeous Gary 28 Apr 05 - 07:25 PM
Gorgeous Gary 28 Apr 05 - 07:26 PM
Blackcatter 29 Apr 05 - 12:09 AM
Barbara 29 Apr 05 - 12:25 AM
Roger in Baltimore 29 Apr 05 - 02:07 PM
cool hand Tom 29 Apr 05 - 08:01 PM
Dave'sWife 30 Apr 05 - 12:43 AM
Dave Hanson 30 Apr 05 - 05:23 AM
Cats 30 Apr 05 - 05:28 AM
GUEST,MBSLynne 30 Apr 05 - 06:39 AM
Raedwulf 30 Apr 05 - 01:27 PM
GUEST 30 Apr 05 - 02:08 PM
Raedwulf 30 Apr 05 - 03:01 PM
Joe Offer 30 Apr 05 - 05:28 PM
DOpfer 30 Apr 05 - 06:07 PM
Haruo 25 Jun 05 - 08:55 PM
Big Al Whittle 25 Jun 05 - 09:57 PM
Haruo 25 Jun 05 - 10:59 PM
Clinton Hammond 25 Jun 05 - 11:17 PM
GUEST 26 Jun 05 - 12:13 AM
Big Al Whittle 26 Jun 05 - 03:24 AM
GUEST,harp missy 27 Jun 05 - 01:48 AM
DMcG 27 Jun 05 - 02:19 AM
Clinton Hammond 27 Jun 05 - 02:47 AM
Haruo 05 Sep 06 - 05:10 AM
Big Al Whittle 05 Sep 06 - 05:56 AM
Gillie 05 Sep 06 - 08:16 AM
erinmaidin 06 Sep 06 - 07:46 AM
Big Mick 06 Sep 06 - 08:41 AM
GUEST,Silverfish 06 Sep 06 - 08:57 AM
RB3 06 Sep 06 - 11:21 AM
CapriUni 06 Sep 06 - 01:56 PM
The Sandman 06 Sep 06 - 02:03 PM
Wuzzle 06 Sep 06 - 02:24 PM
Kaleea 06 Sep 06 - 04:35 PM
Bryn Pugh 15 Jan 09 - 09:21 AM
Anne Lister 15 Jan 09 - 10:17 AM
Anne Lister 15 Jan 09 - 10:23 AM
GUEST,Ian 15 Jan 09 - 10:45 AM
GUEST,Jonny Sunshine 15 Jan 09 - 12:05 PM
Gervase 15 Jan 09 - 12:39 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 15 Jan 09 - 12:48 PM
Les in Chorlton 15 Jan 09 - 01:09 PM
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Jack Blandiver 15 Jan 09 - 01:50 PM
Anne Lister 15 Jan 09 - 06:23 PM
silverfish 17 Jan 09 - 08:33 AM
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Bearheart 19 Jan 09 - 08:36 PM
Jack Campin 19 Jan 09 - 09:02 PM
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Lady Mondegreen 13 Aug 09 - 05:51 AM
matt milton 13 Aug 09 - 06:14 AM
Joe Offer 31 Dec 15 - 04:04 AM
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GUEST,Dave 31 Dec 15 - 04:56 AM
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Black belt caterpillar wrestler 31 Dec 15 - 05:13 AM
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Subject: Folk artists who are pagan
From: open mike
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:38 AM

just wondering....


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 02:35 AM

I' a carnivorous atheist, is that any good ?

eric


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 02:51 AM

Well I know what you mean by Pagan, and yes, I am one. Not sure what you mean by Folk artist though.....

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: treewind
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:03 AM

"pagan" with a small p, me. Sufficiently so to have declared myself as such on the last census.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: MBSLynne
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:17 AM

Me too.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Dáithí Ó Geanainn
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:37 AM

Me too. Wiccan as it happens
BB D


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:40 AM

Jon and I


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Micca
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:53 AM

Me too,


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Micca
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:56 AM

Yeah, I know before someone jumps in,Hardly an Folk Artist, more a peace artist, but I write songs! but there are a LOT of pagans in Folk,


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dipsodeb
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:06 AM

Yes I am too, as declared on the last census. But unfortunately cannot lay claim to the Folk Artist part... Just love Folk and music ;-)
~Debs~


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Mrs_Annie
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:10 AM

Debs, exactly the same for me - pagan, just love Folk and music, haven't yet learned to play anything (am I too old at 54?)

Anne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:19 AM

Heathen, not pagan. Does that count? And I'm guessing everyone affiliated with filk has heathen/pagan leanings.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:25 AM

For the sake of argument, I'm guessing people are describing themselves as pagan, who would more correctly be described as this:

Main Entry: neo-pa·gan
Pronunciation: -'pA-g&n
Function: noun
: a person who practices a contemporary form of paganism (as Wicca)
- neo-pagan adjective
- neo-pa·gan·ism /-'pA-g&-"ni-z&m/ noun

As opposed to this:

Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at PACT
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
3 : NEO-PAGAN

And just to be really pedantic, the above definitions are the reason I prefer to describe myself as this:

Main Entry: 2heathen
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural heathens or heathen
1 : an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible
2 : an uncivilized or irreligious person


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:43 AM

Anahata, you must be British I'm guessing, as the US census doesn't ask the 'R' question ('tis illegal to do so).


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: treewind
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 08:52 AM

"one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods"

That's a very interesting and restrictive combination that says more about the person who wrote the dictionary than about the meaning of paganism or any other religion.

"Little or no religion" - I suspect a narrow understanding of the term "religion" here...

"delights in sensual pleasures" - what wrong with this? The converse is by definition impossible. As long as it doesn't control your life or harm others I find nothing objectionable to anyone enjoying and appreciating the pleasures that life has to offer and there's no reason for it to be incompatible with religion. Anyway all musicians are inherently in the business of enjoying and exploiting at least one sensual pleasure.

"material goods" - why does that have to be lumped together with "sensual pleasures"?

Rhetorical questions, I know...
Anahata


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Barbara
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 09:07 AM

Some of her songs make it sound like Eliza Gilkyson is pagan.
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 09:31 AM

I'm Pagan, and a folk artist.

And isn't it interesting that non-Pagans are always trying to define the words we use to define ourselves?

As for "Neo-Pagan" - yes, technically, we mostly probably are - but please get over the need to put the "neo" on it. I've been Pagan for 15+ years and have very rarely heard anyone describe themselves as Neo-Pagan. Think how silly the term actually is:

Are Protestants "Neo-Christians?"
Reformed Jews "Neo-Jews?"
Folk musicians who play current stuff "Neo-Folkies?"


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 09:34 AM

Pan? - nice piper........


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: open mike
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:12 PM

now what's the difference between heathen and pagan?
and if you use a term that assumes you mean heretic,
or non-believer does it have to come complete with
judgemental over tones or under tones?

and no - it is never too late to learn...i have an
80 year old friend who has just taken up mandolin!

perhaps i am a neo-theist?
neo-agnostic?


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Haruo
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:23 PM

infidel?

Haruo
Liberal Baptist (neo-Christian)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: treewind
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:39 PM

I just found (via Google) a range of definitions for heathen and pagan, including one that said they were basically the same thing, but to me heathen is a derogatory term used by Christians implying that if you aren't Christian then you don't have any religion, wheras paganism is definitely a religion in its own right even though it takes many forms in different parts of the world.

It was a real revelation to me when I discovered that what witches practice is a religion, not previously having known much about the subject.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: PoppaGator
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 01:42 PM

Pagans are not, as I understand it, "nonbelievers" or athiests ~ they are definitely believers, perhaps (but not necessarily) polythiests. Not to be equated with "heathens."

Am I a folk artist who am pagan? My answers are: yes-and-no.

"No" answers first:

I'm not a "folk artist," not really: folk (and blues, and rock, and jazz) hobbyist, yes. And I'm not a member of any pagan group, neo- or otherwise, and I don't use any of that neo-pagan terminology (e.g., my wife and I got married, not "handfasted," etc.)

And then on the other hand, my "yes" answers:

I definitely believe in something beyond human understanding, and I don't believe that any of the clearly-defined concepts of God served up by the various major religions are adequate. Paganism's spiritual appreciation of creation as manifestation of the "Creator" or the "Life Force" or whatever makes lots of sense to me.

And as far as being an artist goes: I may not be a professional performer anymore (and may not have been pazrticularly successful during the years when I gave it a shot), but hell yes, I'm an artist ~ in everything I do!


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,26 Apr 05 - 08:25 AM
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:03 PM

I guess I tetched a nerve with those Merriam Webster definitions.

I define myself as heathen because:

a) I don't believe in a/the Christian god;
b) I don't believe in the Bible;
c) I am irreligious.

In other words, I don't "believe in" what pagans/neo-pagans believe in, including Wicca, New Age stuff, etc.

I do believe a whole lot more is happening in the universe than I can possibly comprehend, but I also don't spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about it.

I have no problem with being sensual either.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,26 Apr 05 - 03:03 PM
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:13 PM

And I wasn't being judgmental--just playing the game of "labelling what I am". I am an artist, but I wouldn't label myself as a "folk" artist, as I find the word folk to be much too limiting.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Schwa
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:29 PM

Aren't all pagans anorexic? Whoops, sorry wrong thread!!


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: fat B****rd
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:37 PM

I think I'm paganostic.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: MBSLynne
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:08 PM

One of the things that many Pagan's believe is that "All acts of love and joy are gifts of the Godess" so that covers the delighting in sensual pleasures bit...

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Susan Urban
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:29 PM

I define myself these days as a Unitarian Universalist Humano-Pagan.

And yes, I believe, from The Charge of the Goddess, that "all acts of love and pleasure are her rituals," although I prefer to think of the divine as masculine, feminine and/or neither as it manifests itself in all of its different aspects. A friend of mine came up with a term for this that I feel comfortable with - "The Great Whatever."

And I also define my activity as a folk artist as "Literary Songwriter," meaning that I write songs in the older folk tradition of looking out at the world, rather than only inside myself, for the stories and situations in my songs (if you don't get it, think of Harry Chapin, Steve Goodman, Malvina Reynolds, Tom Paxton). Many of my songs are what I would consider Pagan, that is, they speak of the oneness of all and the importance of our connection with the natural world and each other.

I often conduct music-based services for Unitarian Univeralist churches that focus on Pagan holidays, such as Winter and Summer Solstice, Spring and Autumnal Equinox, Lammas and Imbolc - although I have many other musical UU services, two of which are on the Beatles and Janis Joplin. And there are a number of wonderful musicians who work with me on these services, such as Sandy Andina, Phil Cooper, Kate Early, Karen Mooney, Kathryn & Caitlin Morski, and Ingrid Frances Stark. Some of these folks would define themselves as Pagan, some as just having Pagan leanings, but they sure wouldn't participate in the services if they didn't have those leanings.

So yes, as a young man I met taking tickets in the Kansas City Airport who happened to be wearing a Pentagram, "we are everywhere."


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Haruo
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:30 PM

Etymologically, both pagan and heathen mean "rural"; "pagan" is "of the country(side)", cognate with Italian "paisano" and less erudite English "peasant". Heathen, on the other hand, is from an Indo-European root meaning "forest, untilled land". Looks to me like this means "heathens" are less civilized than "pagans", though along a shared line leading away from us* urban believers.

Haruo
*"us" here refers to the folks who coined the terms, not you and/or me


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:43 PM

We were vegans and pagans from the day we were born
Nurtured on soya milk, fruit, veg and Quorn
We've never worn leather or feathers or fur
So we freeze while the amoral heathens prosper


(Sorry)

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:45 PM

Also remember that people use the terms to define themselves. People may not like that, but that's the way it goes. Many people who follow Norse/Teutonic religions such as Asatru call themselves Pagan. I don't fully understand why, as the two I know who do so seem to do so merely to seperate themselves religiously from the Wicca-based Pagans with which they are friends. I don't know if this the the sole reason.

I am a Unitairan Universalist Pagan Athiest. And no, I won't bother defining that for you. I've described myself at Mudcat more than once, so feel free to do a search.

Blackcatter


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 04:47 PM

I'm an agnostic. I think.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: My guru always said
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 05:18 PM

Reckon I must be a Bitsa.... Never tried to label myself, just believe in the power of good / life / fate / nature & music. Oh, and Real Ale *grin*


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Polly Squeezebox
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 06:01 PM

I hate labelling - but I guess I'll own this one, the path I follow usually being described by me as Celtic Paganism. I do tend to empathize with the leanings of other spiritualities though - particularly Buddhism. I prefer to think that it does not matter which path you take up the mountain, just so long as you reach the summit eventually. Some people are happier following a longer circuitous route - whilst others (like true peak baggers) go by a more strenuous uphill and direct route - horses for courses. Wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same!

Bright Blessings,

Polly.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: open mike
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:55 PM

i started this thread as a play on words, mostly.
although Vegan and pagan usually do not rhyme..
Veeegan and Paaagan.

but i am glad that so many have posted their
ideas and ideals here.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:24 AM

Is this thread really relavent to anything ?

eric


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:44 AM

Not really Eric, but it's given us a good discussion about semantics and brings a lot of insight into some of the songs people write or perform.

I'm Christian. I've got a lot of friends who are not. Apart from one or two differences, basically the tennents are the same... the major ones being 'harm no-one' and 'do unto others as you would be done by'.

I don't sing exclusively Christian songs, but neither do I omit 'pagan' songs. If I felt it was right, I'd do 'The Burning Times' just as if I felt it were right, I'd do 'Christ is my strength and refuge' (it goes to the Dambusters march). Mostly I do songs about life, and all religion is about life or afterlife.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Nellie Clatt
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM

Now that's a good attitude Liz.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: MBSLynne
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 07:23 AM

Fortunately, it's one that a lot of folkies take, no matter what their religious beliefs, or lack of them. I'm Pagan and I agree with every word Liz said

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 09:36 AM

As is often heard in Pagan and other non-Christian circles: If only more Christians would follow the teachings of Christ.

I'd have to say that the Christians at Mudcat do a better job of that than many I've known.

(this with the proviso that there are plenty people who call themselves Pagan, Muslim, Jewish, UU, Hindu, etc, etc, that fall much short of the ideal and use their religion in stupid ways.)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 09:54 AM

I especially am entertained by people who believe Buddhism is "non-violent" and "non-sexist" (apparently they don't know their Buddhist history of Shaolin soldier monks, or the realities of contemporary Asian societies, which includes downloading porn on the temple computers!)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Polly Squeezebox
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:27 PM

Hmmmmm ............ Would that co-relate to the history of the Knights Templars, the realities of other contemporary patriarchal religions and the sexual abuse of young members of the congregation by some Ministers?

There are shadows in all the religions - or rather FROM the FOLLOWERS of all religions. Hopefully, we all look for, recognise and deal with the shadow side of ourselves - by whatever route or system of tenets.

Polly


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: mandoleer
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 04:27 PM

Nice one, Liz! Another Pagan here. Not as deep in as one of my cousins, who is a High Priestess in two different orders and well in with Native American stuff as well. And on very good terms with the local Mormons, for some strange reason... One even wanted to marry one of her daughters!


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 10:57 PM

Well you know, those Mormons tend to be the marrying kind...


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: coldjam
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 11:43 PM

Well we all know that the difference between pagans and heathens is that pagans... wear socks... or maybe it's that pagans have holidays and heathens... just have to party... (wait for it)...for the hell of it.Ba dumdum.


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Subject: ADD: Heretic Heart (Catherine Madsen)
From: Barbara
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 11:57 PM

Before we get too far from music, here:

HERETIC HEART
(Catherine Madsen)

I am a bold and a pagan soul
Come rambling thru this land
I judge the world by my own rights,
And I come by my own hand.
And if you asked me how I've learned
To live so joyously:
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

My mother lives her life in fear
My father's an angry man
But I have sung at the ancient rites
And danced on holy land.
I sing the seed out of the ground
And the bird down from the tree
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

I once was found but now I gone
Out of the faithful fold
Of those who think that holiness
Is to do as you are told
Though man and scripture, priest and law
have all instructed me,
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

They tell me Jesus loves me;
I fear he must love in vain.
For what can any Man-god know
Of woman's secret pain?
My healer is the lady moon
Whose tides run deep in me;
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

So while I breathe this glorious air
An outlaw I'll remain
My body may not be subdued;
My soul shall not be saved.
And where I may not shout out loud
I'll sing it secretly --
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority.

Click to play


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Amos
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 01:38 AM

Barbara:

What a find! Thanks so much!! Must find the recording!


A


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 08:07 AM

As a heathen, I have to say one of the things I find silliest about the pagan thing is the same thing I find silliest about all polytheism, which is the practice of assigning gender to planets, deities, etc.

Shouldn't that be a clue that such beliefs are purely human constructs?


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 09:41 AM

This from someone who doesn't even identify themselves...


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Barbara
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:30 PM

Holly Tannen "Between the Worlds" is where I learned it, Amos, and I bet I could post you a tune shortly. Cool song, ain't it? Tho I have trouble singing the line "I come by my own hand". I have been told that in England, it means "I work for myself rather than someone else"
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: EagleWing
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:42 PM

As a heathen, I have to say one of the things I find silliest about the pagan thing is the same thing I find silliest about all polytheism, which is the practice of assigning gender to planets, deities, etc.

Shouldn't that be a clue that such beliefs are purely human constructs?


In many languages gender is assigned to furniture. Is that a clue of some kind?

Frank L.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:44 PM

Yessssssss.. I'd have trouble singing that line with a straight face!

I'd substitute 'live' for 'come'... still makes sense and isn't open to other interpretations......

GUEST 8.07 - Nature is divided into Male and Female - you can't get life without a sperm to fertilise an egg, whether that egg is an embryo, a shelled egg, a seed, nut or berry.... there is a male plant/animal and a female plant/animal. It's just an extension of nature to give gender specifics to other items. To call the moon female is a step of logic. A full moon appears every 28 days or so, a mature woman will menstruate every 28 days or so, ergo, the moon becomes feminine. *I* know it's just a lump of inanimate, sterile, sexless rock, covered in dust and golfballs, that only appears to wax and wane; but that doesn't take away the magical sight of a bright white sliver like a nail paring growing to a great glowing orb with ghostly shadows and hidden images.

We could say that ALL religions and beliefs are human constructs.. but then that's what we ARE... humans with a gender.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:34 PM

"In many languages gender is assigned to furniture. Is that a clue of some kind?"

Yes, actually. It is. Very specific clues to that culture's beliefs regarding gender, and how they associate material things with gender roles.

"It's just an extension of nature to give gender specifics to other items. To call the moon female is a step of logic."

That's very funny, but I don't think it was intended to be. Thanks for proving my point.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 02:59 PM

While humans invariably have a gender, most theologians and serious metaphysical thinkers would agree that any superhuman Being would necessarily transcend gender. "Man and woman He created them . . . in His own image and likeness" would seem to imply that neither man nor woman alone matches up to an image of the Deity, but that their complementary and different natures together somehow reflect that Divine image.

Of course, the patriarchal religious establishments that have dominated human history have incorrectly skewed the image of God as inappropriately male, so the neopagan usage of "Goddess," while equally wrong, at least stands as an effort to counterbalance the prevailing image held not only by the "outside world," but even by the pagans themselves, at least during their earlier years.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Raedwulf
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:04 PM

apparently they don't know their Buddhist history of Shaolin soldier monks

Apparently, Anonymous Guest, you don't know your Buddhist history of Shaolin soldier monks either. Like the minor fact that they have never been "soldier monks".


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM

I am also pagan. :0)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 03:34 PM

Right, they developed their martial arts just as a means of showing how peaceful they were to their enemies. They never fought as solidiers.

Sure.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 07:25 PM

Responding to one of the GUESTs:

Heathen, not pagan. Does that count? And I'm guessing everyone affiliated with filk has heathen/pagan leanings.

Watch the generalizations there. Yes, there are a number of pagan/Wiccan folks in the filk community. Yes, a number of very prominent performers in the community are. But not everyone.

I for one am Jewish, though not an observant one, and a number of my friends in the community are Orthodox. I also know a couple of Catholics and a couple of other devout Christians.

-- Gary


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 07:26 PM

Oh, and hi Susan! See 'ya at OVFF? 8-)

-- Gary


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:09 AM

And I first got into filk songs when I started going to SF & Fantasy cons. Religions didn't enter into it.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Barbara
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 12:25 AM

I've shipped a tune off for Heretic Heart; hopefully a link will appear here soon.
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 02:07 PM

Dar Williams on her CD "Mortal City" had a song called "Christians and Pagans". It's a little ditty about visiting relatives at Christmas when they know you are a pagan celebrating the winter solstice, not Christmas. I don't know if it is autobiographical, but it is a nice tune.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 08:01 PM

Im a Communist so religion isnt in me little red book lol


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 12:43 AM

darn. I clicked on this thinking it was the 'Folk Artists who are Bacon' thread. my mistake


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 05:23 AM

So whats the difference? all these ' folk artists who are ? ' threads are feckin stoopid anyway. Who cares as long as the music and craic is good.

eric


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Cats
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 05:28 AM

All good thoughts and wishes to all, pagan or not, at one of the most important times in our calendar, Beltane.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 06:39 AM

Eric the Red...why do you read them then? No one is forcing you!

I second that Cats...Happy Beltane everyone!!

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 01:27 PM

Guest 3:34 - You are a bloody ignoramus. Try doing a Google on the history & origins of kung fu & you will quickly find out how uninformed you really are. For the Shaolin to qualify as 'soldier' monks they would have to, as an organization, actively seek out (or at least train with a view to being involved in) conflict which, to the best of my knowledge, they never have.

They are not the European knightly orders (the Templars, Hospitallers, Teutons, etc). They have never fought as a body unless persecuted. Lastly, kung fu, by a very strict definition, is not even a martial art. It's a movement art; like Tai Chi & Aikido; that has self-defense applications. And Buddhism is very explicit about not using violence. If the occasional professed individual breaks that instruction, this is not a reason to claim that the group's philosophy is therefore invalid.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 02:08 PM

Well, if you are using the internet as your primary source, that explains your ignorance.

Try going to a library with a decent, current encyclopedia of religion, and then come talk to me.

"Buddhism is very explicit about not using violence."

Oh please. Westerners who romanticize 'Buddhism' (as if it were a monolithic, ancient religion, which it is not) like you just did are downright dangerous to public health.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 03:01 PM

Evidence? (And who said that I was using the Internet as a primary source? I said if you bothered to do a little bit of basic research you might find something... Ahhhhhhh! What's the point!)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 05:28 PM

Thanks to Blessings Barbara, we have a MIDI for "Heretic Heart." Thanks, Barbara.
-Joe Offer-

Click to play


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: DOpfer
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 06:07 PM

Myself, I'm an agnostic dyslexic with insomnia. I lay awake night's wondering if there really is a Dog.

DanO


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Subject: Heretic Heart URL
From: Haruo
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 08:55 PM

Presumably as a result of the late corruption of Mudcat's hard disks, the message number in which the text and MIDI link of Barbara's Heretic Heart has changed. If anyone (like me) had a link to it in your webpages, probably better update it or at least check it. The message number should be 1468253 (it was originally 147something). I also have the song in La Lilandejo at Heretic Heart.

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 09:57 PM

look lets cut to the chase.......
do you dance round in the nude, collect herbs at midnight, cast spells, drink from ornate chalices and other exciting stuff.

I mean the showbiz angle is important.....


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Haruo
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 10:59 PM

No, actually I'm a Baptist. But I like the song.

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 11:17 PM

If yer talking about

People
Against
Goodness
And
Normalcy

Then I'm in...

If yer going on about all this new age, crystals and horoscope, lay-lines, and hippy-standing-around-in-circles-nude bullwhip, I dismiss them all as a passle of DLDs (Deluded Little Dupes) It's mostly Victorian Age 'romantic fiction' coupled with Hallmark-ian marketing... And these people eat it up like it's Turkey Twizlers for school dinner.. Apparently without a brain in their heads they are going to save the soul they can't prove even exists...

Read the book "American Gods" by Neil Gaiman, especially the chapter where Wednesday is chatting with Aestor in the San Francisco coffee shop...


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 12:13 AM

WOW!!! Some of the pagan, self proclaimed, from half a decade ago ... are not lining up for muster and the roll-call.

Perhaps, they have seen the

LIGHT???

Or, they are terrified of the Patriot Act and its implications on their impositions on traditional institutions?


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 03:24 AM

I knew I could tap into those sweet tolerant natures somehow. So that's why martin Gibson did it....


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,harp missy
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 01:48 AM

I feel unable to resist the urge to quote George Carlin at this point...

"When it comes to religion, I'm not an atheist and I'm not an agnostic. I'm an acrostic. The whole thing puzzles me."

Pretty much sums up my generalized theory of the universe...

M


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 02:19 AM

Sorry, I didn't read this before. Back in Apr a Guest said

And I'm guessing everyone affiliated with filk has heathen/pagan leanings.

As guesses go, that's doesn't seem a very good one to me, unless you are prepared regard almost everything as a 'pagan leaning.'


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 02:47 AM

George Carlin also said...

"The only good thing to come from religion has been the music"


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Haruo
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:10 AM

I think the "Heretic Heart" tune is mighty similar to the Ploughboy's Dream, aka FOREST GREEN.

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:56 AM

that's oh little town of Bethlehem , isn't it?


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Gillie
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:16 AM

Raedwolf,

I totaly agree with what you have said regarding origins."

They are not the European knightly orders (the Templars, Hospitallers, Teutons, etc). They have never fought as a body unless persecuted. Lastly, kung fu, by a very strict definition, is not even a martial art. It's a movement art; like Tai Chi & Aikido; that has self-defense applications. And Buddhism is very explicit about not using violence. If the occasional professed individual breaks that instruction, this is not a reason to claim that the group's philosophy is therefore invalid."

I have been involved in Tia Kundo and know that it is a disipline of mind and body, that is aimed to promote self disipline and is not used unless absolutley nessesary. A last resort! It takes a braver man to walk away from a fight. Movements are based on Tai Chi.

Blessed be


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: erinmaidin
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 07:46 AM

I'm going to hold on to my last breath for as long as I can and try to get a peek over to the other side. Then...., I will declare :)
(Hell...I won't even tell my mom what political party I follow....mostly because...I don't follow one! lol)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 08:41 AM

Go ahead, erin maiden. Live dangerously. LOL.

Our people were pagan long before they were Roman Catholic. I have longed for a return to the Irish Catholic Church, which was stifled by Rome, and which incorporated our natural beliefs into itself. Don't care much for the showbiz pagans. I used to correspond quite a bit with Morgan Llywelyn, and she constantly complained about the new agers who saw pagans as they wanted them to be instead of as they were. They had a very studied view of the natural world. I am not afraid at all to tell you that I hold many pagan beliefs, and still consider myself a Catholic.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Silverfish
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 08:57 AM

Me. Yep.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: RB3
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 11:21 AM

I agree with Big Mick on the whole new agey-pagan thing. I would say that while I agree that Neo-Pagan is a silly word, it does actually apply to some people. I think that the people it applies to are the ones who are into the crystal/ley line stuff rather than actually attempting to get to the "truth" of what the ancient religions were.
On the other hand, I don't know too many people who practice those religions as they actually were, complete with sacrificing the "king" at the end of the year (and if there are people who do that, I probably don't want to know...)
I call myself a Pagan, because I'm poly-theistic rather than Wiccan. All the Wiccan/pagan community members I've had contact with tend to make that specific distinction: Wiccan=Goddess worship or Bi-Theistic Archetype religion, Pagan=everything else that isn't another established religion and has some sort of connection with ancient religions (i.e. poly-theism, shamanic tradition, Asatru, celtic or norse religion). But there are so many of us, and very few actually conform to any particular set of guidelines that it seems silly to attempt to define it any further.
I also think the old Celtic-Christianity was a pretty cool religion, as Christianity goes. I don't go there myself, but it seems to be a much more natural religion, with less constraints than typical Roman Catholicism (no offense meant to any Roman Catholics out there).
-RB3


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: CapriUni
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 01:56 PM

Well, I call myself Neo-Pagan precisely because I wish to separate myself from the white-light-and-crystal-set (as my father calls them)

Many of those white-lighters wish to claim that their faith is:
  1. Handed down in an unbroken line stretching back 30,000 years,

  2. and that the ancient Pagans never did anything really bad, but have just been misrepresented by history.


I devoloped my own faith, based on my liberal Quaker upbringing, my own readings of mythlogy, and my own observations and reasoning. So my faith is definitely "Neo-". It's also definitely "Pagan," because I did borrow from all those readings from Pagan mythologies at least the precedent of polytheistic, animistic and Nature-based religious systems.

I only started reading about Wicca and other contempory Pagan faiths (and adopting some of the terminology) after I made the conscious decision to stop trying to hammer my experiences into the Judeo-Christian mold for the world -- believe me, they just don't fit! ;-)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 02:03 PM

im not pagan, im thick.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Wuzzle
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 02:24 PM

not a folk artist just love to sing

            The Swan

When I was a child I danced to the moon and sang to the moon and called to the moon
I cried to the spirit in the air to lift me up and keep me there for I was free and I was wild
And I was the ugly duckling
When I was a child I danced on the earth and sang to the earth and called to the earth
I cried to the spirit of the land to keep me safe to hold my hand for I was free and I was wild
And I was the ugly duckling
When I was a child I danced through fire flames a burning higher and higher for I was free and I was wild
And I was the ugly duckling
When I was a child I danced in the waves and sang to the waves and called to the waves
I laughed with the spirit in the waterfall and my wounds were healed one and all
For I was the ugly duckling

Now I am grown I dance with the moon sing to the moon and call to the moon
I laugh with the spirit in the air for she caught me up and kept me there and I am free as bird on wing
But not the ugly duckling
Now I am grown I dance with the earth and sing to the earth and call to the earth
For the spirit of the land held my hand to help me grow and help me know that I am free
But not the ugly duckling
Now I am grown I dance with the fire flames a burning higher and higher for I am free a child of fire
But not the ugly duckling
Now I am grown I dance with the waves sing to the waves and call to the waves
And I laugh with the spirit in the waterfall and our laughter echoes, becomes a roar
For not the ugly duckling


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Kaleea
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 04:35 PM

Evidently, I'm "heathen" &/or "pagan" according to the definition as announced by certain fundamental "Christians" I've known. the definition being anyone who does not attend their church--I'm not making this up. Some refer to others who go to a quite similar church as "almost christians."

I prefer to think of myself as a either member of Reverand Leroy's (Flip Wilson) "The Church Of What's Happenin' Now!" or The Church Of NOB (None Of The Above).


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 09:21 AM

I have never considered myself a "Folk artist" ("artiste" ?), just someone who sang folk songs at one time, enjoyed every minute of it, drank a fair bit of ale and sometimes got paid for such activities.

I also danced Morris (before my knees gave out).

I am an initiated Alexandrian Wiccan of 37 years standing, or profession, if you will. I am a pagan (or a Pagan)and proud to be so.

One aspect of the Pagan Ways (there are many) is one that few other faiths seem to work to, or adhere to :

"Live ; and let live".


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Anne Lister
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:17 AM

Happy to use the term pagan ... don't identify with any particular grouping of pagans, though. Don't have gods, goddesses, altars or any of that stuff but do find plenty of invisible friends to chat with, especially when I'm walking in the woods or on the hills.
Oh, and one of my visible friends has a lot of family traditional material in her keeping and teaches some of it to some of us. You can hear about some of it in my songs.

Anne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Anne Lister
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:23 AM

Should I add here that I was once "outed" by the News of the World as a witch? Not that I am one, mind. The argument went something like "well, a lot of people in the audience were witches so she must have been one", as I recall. Which is an interesting take on audience/performer relationships. I'm off to sing to a local gardening club tonight, so that makes me a gardener (it's a fair cop) and before Christmas it was the Farmswomen's Guild (and no, I don't have a farm).
It was annoying, however, as the result of this article I lost a job working in a Catholic school - not that the headteacher would own up to that as a reason, mind you, but it was an odd coincidence to say the least.
Ho, hum.

Anne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:45 AM

Pagan is a well used and abused term. Looking at the OED, the definition includes "not believing in the mainstream creed." Whether this means believing in something else or not is not adequately explained. Another definition (not the same one) mentions pre-existing (before Christianity) beliefs.

Working on the first interpretation, I do get up in clubs and have in the past made a living out of playing folk music so hit the first criteria.

I do not have an imaginary friend, so I suppose I could be classed as pagan in that sense.

So, count me in?


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 12:05 PM

It seems to me that many pagans have very healthy attitudes towards religion- rejecting dogma while recognising the human need for spiritual belief and ritual.

Personally though, I'm happy to describe myself as a born-again agnostic. Brought up a Christian, 'til I saw the darkness.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Gervase
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 12:39 PM

I'm quite happy to be an atheist. Wicca puzzles me - it seems as man-made as Scientology, given that Gardner appears to have invented the whole caboodle. A lot nice in its tenets than Scientology, I hasten to add...


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 12:48 PM

Is anyone attending the Druid folk festival at Stonehenge next Thursday? Frankly, I don't give a whoopty-doo whether someone is Baptist, atheist, Zoroastrian or a devotee of Taoism. Can they play? Can they sing? As for myself, I am a closet neo-agnostic still suffering religious influences. I try not to let that get in the way of a good time.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 01:09 PM

Is it worth pointing out that Druids almost certainly had nothing to do with building or using Stonehenge?

No, I thought not

L in C


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 01:40 PM

Tabster, you may have a very good discrimination case as we now are encompassed by the Equalities Act, beliefs section. [Unless that is your job description said anything about witches should not apply!!!]


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 01:50 PM

Although a total materialist, I have a deeply entrenched fascination in all aspects of Western Spirituality, which must include the Wyrder aspects of folklore, witchcraft & paganism, so-called.

Just uploaded this today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw7FUAsiVyc, which is typical of the genre, being two interleaved songs based on the incantations of Isobel Gowdie (by Robert Graves & Raymond Greenoaken) but YouTube won't let me add the notes just yet...


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Anne Lister
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 06:23 PM

Cats, I think it's a bit late to go for the discrimination issue now. I did try the Press Complaints Commission, though, on the grounds of being photographed without my consent, being misquoted and being totally misrepresented. They were useless. They said it was the journalist's word against mine - which wasn't totally correct, as there were many witnesses present at the event - and they weren't prepared to pursue it.
It's a long story. Did give me a great line to use in promo, though - "Anne Lister, a chubby witch, performed cosmic love songs and a comedy routine".   Not sure which was the most inaccurate part of that!

Anne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: silverfish
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 08:33 AM

If we put ourselves forward under ANY tag we invite comment or criticism.
My advice?
Any press reporter is less interested in your opinions and beliefs. They wish to write something catchy that THEY will be remembered for...
Just like songwriters, really.
I get some interesting reactions when filling in forms... booking in hospital they can't understand whether I want them to call a priest, pour whiskey (yes, I prefer Irish) or bury me under the grass verge beyond the parking lot if the operation goes wrong!!!
As if it would make any difference to me...
I shall write songs and perform to the end - beyond that will be interesting (or not).
Blessed Be.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Anne Lister
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 08:53 AM

The interesting thing about my experience is that I DIDN'T put myself forward under any tag. It was supposed to be an event for people by invitation only and the journalist in question faked an identity for himself - but there were no tags or labels and I certainly didn't lay claim to any. This particular journo was interested in being paid for writing his piece and accuracy (and "the public interest") had nothing to do with it. His piece of rubbish put my job at risk and also put the people whose farm it was at risk (he published their address and phone number) as well as an RAF officer who was present whose personal information he published.
According to his article, the event was some kind of drug and sex orgy with a parody of the Mass involved - if it was any of that kind of thing I certainly didn't see it or participate in it.

You can tell that some years later it still rankles, more than a bit!

Anne


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Bearheart
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 08:36 PM

Sorry to have missed this thread the first time around.

Have been singing since I was two, and almost all of it "folk",never as a job though I like to think of myself as an artist.

On a spiritual search since a young teen, I discovered Wicca and Paganism in 1982 (I'm 54 now, so...). There are as one person said, many different kinds, I consider myself the "live in the woods, talk with the spirits, grow my own food and medicine, study metaphysics, do rituals from time to time" kind of witch...Not New-Agey, not white-light airy fairy, BUT I still take the spirit world seriously.

I have to say I've seen some (pagan/metaphysics/spirituality) bashing here from time to time that didn't please me much, and some pretty cool folks have stopped posting to threads like this because they got tired of it. I think some of the nay sayers do it to piss people off and kill these threads. (This is aimed of course at some of the older posts)

Frankly my opinion is if you don't care for this kind of topic, go away. Some of us like to hang out together and get to know others of like mind, compare notes etc. I love folk music esp Celtic/Nordic (PARTLY) because there is a lot of the Old Religion to be found in it.

One of my Norwegian Hardanger fiddle cds says that the old fiddlers used to go out in the woods and play for days till the wood spirits came to them and gave them a new tune. Makes sense to me.

Don't suppose Wuzzle is around, but just want to say I liked that piece the Swan, and if you are around, did you write it?

OH yeah and Heathen with a capital H is a term used by a lot of people in the Norse tradition to describe their brand of (Neo)Paganism

Bekki


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 09:02 PM

One of my Norwegian Hardanger fiddle cds says that the old fiddlers used to go out in the woods and play for days till the wood spirits came to them and gave them a new tune.

Same in Shetland. I have a few Shetland tunes on my website that were said to have been composed by the fairies.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Bearheart
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 10:25 AM

Jack, will you send a link? I would like to see them.

(Of course they probably ONLY do this if you go out into the woods and play for days!!!)

Bekki


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 12:05 PM

I am the only Jack Campin in the world, so googling for me is pretty straightforward.

My site: http://www.campin.me.uk

The Shetland fairy tunes: http://www.campin.me.uk/Music/ShetlandFairyTunes.abc


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 12:16 PM

How intriguing. Similar themes of receiving songs from the spirits seem to occur worldover. Yet in most cultures where I've heard of similar stuff, such songs are usually pragmatic and purposive. And I believe usually given, so that the 'shaman/healer' can then call on the aid of said spirit in his work. Wish I knew how to read those ABC's. Anyway they're in 'The Shetland Folk Book' too, so I know where to look.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Rog Peek
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 02:58 PM

Jackson Browne self confessed.

So please forgive me if I seem
To take a tone of judgement
For I've no wish to come between
this day and your enjoyment
In this life of hardship and of earthly toil
We have need for anything that frees us
So I bid you pleasure
And I bid you cheer
From a heathen and a pagan
On the side of the rebel Jesus.

(final verse of 'The Rebel Jesus')

Rog


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 03:12 PM

Wish I knew how to read those ABC's.

If you're using a Mac, download BarFly - you won't regret it. I don't know about PC software, as I use Noteworthy on the PC for historical reasons - although I can recommend Bryan Creer's ABC/Noteworthy/ABC conversion program.

At a pinch I should think you could sight-read ABC - "c2e c2e|ecA A2A|" to take a couple of bars at random, means
C crotchet E quaver C crotchet E quaver
E quaver C quaver low-A quaver low-A crotchet low-A quaver
('low A' meaning the A below the C, not the one above the E)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 04:25 PM

Sheesh, I said how to deal with ABCs right on my homepage.

Use the converter at folkinfo.org. Paste ABC into the appropriate box. Press button. Get a score displayed and click on it to play it as MIDI. You don't need anything but a browser on your own machine.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 05:51 PM

There's that also! Shouldn't have forgotten that - I've even got it bookmarked: Folkinfo abc converter.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Lady Mondegreen
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:51 AM

A copy of a post my partner Corwen made to another forum answering the same question:

British:
Well you know Damh the Bard...http://www.paganmusic.co.uk/
The Dolmen: http://www.thedolmen.com/band.htm (lovely folk who host great camps)
Druidspear http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=88047252 (Don't know if these guys are still going)
Dragonsfly: http://www.dragonsfly.org/ (Celtic/eastern folk with the odd pagan song. Nice)
Spacegoats: http://www.pondlifestudios.com/artist_information.asp?id=1 (Not going any more but luckily their fantastic music is still available from Pondlife)
Jabberwocky: Andy Letcher's project with Krismael of Spacegoats. No website and the band only made one album, called Mimir, buy it if you see it! Funky Pagan music with hammer dulcimer and bagpipes.
Andy is still active, currently in a project with my partner Kate's brother Colin and his wife Jane, called Telling the Bees http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=136179322 Don't know how 'Out' pagan it is but I'm sure they are worth watching.
Heathens All who were an out Pagan band became Seize the Day (more political, but worth listening to.)http://www.seizetheday.org/ (I'm hoping they will re-release the Heathens All stuff as none of my old tapes work!)
Silver on the Tree: http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/sott/ (the first Pagan music I heard. Eye of the Aeon and Mystic Spiral are classic Pagan albums)
Paul Mitchell:http://www.myspace.com/pagansatire http://paul.makingithappen.co.uk/ (wonderful satirical songs about Paganism from a really great bloke.)
Paul is in a new band Mad Magdelin http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=275337903
Paul Newman but his website seems to be down.
Last but definitely not least, the wonderful Carolyn Hillier and her partner Nigel Shaw. http://www.seventhwavemusic.co.uk/ (they play apart and together, beautiful shamanic pagan music, and run a really nice festival every other year at their home on Dartmoor)

And of course if you are desperate theres always Kate and I...
We play as a duo called Rigantona:
http://www.rigantona.co.uk
but Kate also has a CD of her own called Kate Fletcher, Fruit which received good reviews in Pagan Dawn, Sacred Hoop, TDN and the folk press: http://www.katefletcher.co.uk

A lot of North European music has really Pagan or Shamanic elements, try

Scandinavian/Finnish:
Gjallahorn:http://www.gjallarhorn.com/main.html (fantastic Swedish 'New Folk' band)
Garmana:http://www.noside.com/Catalog/CatalogArtist_01.asp?Action=Get&Artist_ID=14 (driving moody Hurdy Gurdy, big percussion with lovely female vocals)
Hedningarna: http://www.noside.com/hedningarnabio.html (techno with joiking, singing and lots of ancient instruments)
Korpiklaani: http://www.korpiklaani.com/ (Finnish Pagan Heavy Metal)

Germanic:
Schelmish:http://www.schelmishuk.co.uk/ (Bagpipes and big drums)
Omnia: http://www.omnia-neocelt.com/ (Dutch I think? Upbeat pagan music)
Faun http://www.faune.de/web2007/index.html (have heard of these guys but haven't heard their stuff yet)

Saami:
Wimme Saari: http://www.noside.com/bio_wimme.html (Joiking [shamanic singing] with a really dark voice and beautiful jazz folk accompaniment)
Marie Boine: http://www.mariboine.no/ (most famous joik artist)
Ulla Pirrtijarrvi (my favourite but I can't find a web presence.)

Russian:
have just discovered Ivan Kupala, they are like a Russian version of Enigma, slightly dated Euro-techno with Slavic folk instruments and old Karelian (Russian Finnish) ladies singing, which sounds kind of Saami/Native American. Completely wonderful, and oddly compelling. Just found some videos on You Tube and I like the band even more now. Great to see pop videos full of old ladies.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=E_0j_38Tda0 (beautiful)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GnqWC9T-T1c (moving)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aa49gyJZYb4 (funny)

Plus USAnia
Reclaiming http://www.reclaiming.org/ (Political Feminist Paganism, 4 chant CDs to date)
There are a lot of Usanian artists I don't really know judging by this CD: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Pagan-Song/dp/B0001RZGC4
and lots more producing music that might be categorised by some as Pagan, like Jennifer Berezan http://www.edgeofwonder.com/biography.html and some who are definitely Pagan but whether what they produce counts as music...http://www.neopagan.net/ (Isaac Bonewitz)


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: matt milton
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 06:14 AM

I'm not pagan at all. But I've been enjoying playing a lot of animal-centred nonsense songs/childrens' songs recently, imagining them to be animist satires on organist religion, or synthesizing recognition of our animal nature [as it were]. Songs like Buckeye Jim and Wish I was A Mole In the Gound and Raccoon and Possum.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 04:04 AM

Sadie Damascus sang a funny song tonight called "Bandersnatch" about you-know-what. The tune was very familiar, and Sadie said it was the tune for "Heretic Heart," which in turn was an older tune. It was very familiar to me, but now I'm not sure if I have the right tune in my head. I'm thinking it is one of the alternate tunes for "O Little Town of Bethlehem."
So, what's the tune?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Megan L
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 04:41 AM

Joe I only know of three tunes for little town of Bethlehem,
St Louis (which seems to be used in America) Forest green (The one we use in Scotland) and a tune I have never used called wengen


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 04:56 AM

Forest Green is Vaughan Williams' arrangement of The Ploughboy's dream, and is by far the most common tune for this hymn not only in Scotland, but in England and most of the Commonwealth.

H. Walford Davies wrote two tunes for this hymn, Wengen and Christmas Carol, neither of which I know.

Most information here is from Wikipedia, although I did know where Forest Green came from (Vaughan Williams collected it in a village of than name in Surrey, which, paradoxically, is not the home of Forest Green Rovers who come from Gloucestershire).


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 05:01 AM

So Paganism has space goats???

Why didn't I know this?

The other cults only have churches, mosques and guilt. Where do I sign up? Do I have to pretend to believe in nonsense?


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 05:13 AM

I have the dots for a tune used for "O Little Town" in Cornwall.
It says "Words Bishop P. Brooks", "Melody from Sandy's Christmas Carols 1833".
Got this from a Folk South West weekend led by Eddie Upton in 1998.
It doesn't give a name for the tune though.


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 15 - 05:34 AM

[quote]
Frankly, I don't give a whoopty-doo whether someone is Baptist, atheist, Zoroastrian or a devotee of Taoism. Can they play? Can they sing?
[/quote]
+1


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Jan 16 - 04:03 AM

Thanks, folks. I'm pretty sure the melody for "Heretic Heart" is Forest Green. The tune is known in the U.S., but not widely.
Now, I just have to gt a copy of those "Bandersnatch" lyrics from Sadie. She says it's a filk song.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Folk artists who are pagan
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 01 Jan 16 - 08:27 AM

Interesting comments from over the years. I was thinking that if you think of it the right way, the hymn This is My Father's World has a very animistic point of view. As someone who chose a different path than the fundamentalist one that I was brought up in, I find this is still a stirring song.


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