Objections to Joe Offer

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 13 May 05 - 11:04 AM

Alright, who pinched my 300???

MMario,
       Yes.Agreed. Iknow. I don't really give a hoot who censors what! To me mudcat is the following:-

1) A good way of finding out what is going on musically in my area.
b) A bit of a titter.

The flamenco sites that I use are much more heavily censored than mudcat, AND THEY DON'T ALLOW GUESTS TO POST!

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 May 05 - 12:25 PM

LOL.....What makes this entire thing so ridiculous are these threads of explanations and Joe's explanations on the threads as to WHY things happen as they do. I don't know of any toher sight that does anything even close to that. And at this point, it's what Joe, Jeff, and the Clones need to do. Just make the changes ... PERIOD. Someone wants an explanation they can put a note in HELP Forum or PM Joe. A thread like this starts, they close it. Just do the job and flush the explanation crap. It is what it is.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 May 05 - 12:32 PM

shambles? Your point is what? This is a privately owned site. Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time. If this is not agreeable - then don't post.

that is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It is a fact of life. Live with it.

MMario

You may be prepared to accept that the new 'rules' were introduced (by our volunteers) some years after many of us had been posting? These new 'rules' now state that the 'management' 'reserve the right' to do these things.....That is the truth that you have to accept and live with.

For perhaps you will also accept that - the 'management' reserving this right - is NOT the same thing at all - as our unknown volunteers feeling qualified to impose their personal judgement upon the contributions of fellow posters - now as a matter of routine?

To be fair - many of our volunteers may be well-intentioned and may not wish to do this (just as many do not feel they need to keep their volunteership a secret). Perhaps if they do not agree with this routine censorship or do not like being tarred with the same brush - they can address this point with those volunteers who do feel themselves qualified to now impose their personal judgement upon the invited contributions of their fellow posters - as a matter of routine?

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 13 May 05 - 12:39 PM

Shambles - what part of "Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time." don't you understand? Regardless of what you, I or ANYONE ELSE thinks, agrees to, or says.

Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time.

fact.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 May 05 - 01:27 PM

EDITORIAL POLICY.

The Mudcat Cafe reserves the right to edit, move, combine, rename, or delete all threads and messages posted in the Forum. We will try our best to edit sparingly, but there are times when we may have to take some action to keep the peace, or to protect the interests of our community.

As I have stated - these are new 'rules' but where MMario does it say in these 'rules' - that our unknown volunteers feel qualified to impose their personal judgement upon the contributions of fellow posters - now as a matter of routine - where there are no issues of peace-keeping or protecting the interests of all our community?

I am sorry but the words 'reserving the right' and 'sparingly' do not mean the imposing of anonymous volunteer's personal jugement upon the invited contributions of fellow posters - as a matter now of routine.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 05 - 01:34 PM

Shambles - what part of "Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time." don't you understand? Regardless of what you, I or ANYONE ELSE thinks, agrees to, or says.

Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time.

fact.

this is despite anything anyone, including max, has ever said or posted.

Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time.

this is outside any forum rules, site rules, agreements, opinions.

Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time.

It is not a point that is debatable or that can currently be changed by anything less then an act of the US congress, or a change in the lagal status of the site.

Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 13 May 05 - 01:45 PM

sorry - that was me above.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 May 05 - 01:46 PM

That this may be a RIGHT for the management - does not alter the FACT that the management in their EDITORIAL POLICY have CLEARLY stated that it is a RIGHT - the management reserves - for the reasons stated in their EDITORIAL POLICY.

Please argue with what the management's EDITORIAL POLICY now states - or with what our volunteers want to tell you that it states - not with me.

Or "learn to live with it". *Smiles*

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 13 May 05 - 01:53 PM

Roger - regardless of what is stated in the Editorial policy.

Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time.

they would have that right even if Max specifically denied having it.

I am not argueing. I am not debating. I am stating a fact.

do you understand that Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time.?

It's a yes or no question. And guess what - even if you don't understand the statement - it is still true. You don't have to learn to live with it. it's fact.

furthermore - if one of max's designess deletes or edits contrary to Max's wishes - he is ultimately answerable only to Max. Not you, not me, not anyone other then Max.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 May 05 - 01:57 PM

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: The Shambles - PM
Date: 13 May 05 - 01:46 PM

That this may be a RIGHT for the management - does not alter the FACT that the management in their EDITORIAL POLICY have CLEARLY stated that it is a RIGHT - the management reserves - for the reasons stated in their EDITORIAL POLICY.

Please argue with what the management's EDITORIAL POLICY now states - or with what our volunteers want to tell you that it states - not with me.

Or "learn to live with it". *Smiles*

I have no idea what you are trying to argue here. Geeziz Man, you are over the edge! That is total jibberish Roger!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 May 05 - 02:12 PM

MMario - is this better?

EDITORIAL POLICY. (suggested revision)

The Mudcat Cafe as a matter of routine - will edit, move, combine, rename, or delete all threads and messages posted in the Forum. We will not do this sparingly, but we will impose this on every contribution - even when there is no need to take any action to keep the peace, or to protect the interests of our community.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 13 May 05 - 02:24 PM

ROGER - DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time.

yes or no.

I did not ask for a suggest editortial pilicy.

I did not ask whether or not you or I consider what editing is currently being done "routine" or not, correct or not, moral or not.

a simple question. do you understand the fact that Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content at any time.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 May 05 - 03:05 PM

MMario

Of course I understand the EDITORIAL POLICY - perhaps you do not as your words are not there - are they? I also understand that Max has the right to do as he wishes and no one is making any attempt to deny or take this right away from Max.

However I seen no evidence that Max's intention in opening this part of his private site as a public discussion forum - was to deny or take away from the public the right to express themselves in the manner of their choosing.

Even the new 'rules' introduced in the EDITORIAL POLICY should make this clear - even to you.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: Jeri
Date: 13 May 05 - 03:08 PM

MMario, you ask Shambles if he understands.

Yes. Of course he<does. What he understands is that trolling works here because people care and they mostly don't pick up on the fact that<a troll doesn't need a motive other than<to keep prodding and provoking those caring people every once in a while.

Shambles will continue to argue (and create his own dialect in the process). People are still trying<- three years after he started -<to either reason with him or<at least get him to shut up. It's not going to happen, since his only motive appears to be to continue forever. With the assistance he's been getting from folks, he shouldn't have<any problem doing<that.
<<<
Mudcat is what it is. It's<too<big<for any<one person, save<for those with control over the Almighty Code, to affect very much. Shambles<will complain, and nothing much will change. We may try to<get him<to stop complaining, and nothing much will change. We may become frustrated and angry at people or what they do, and nothing much will change... except we're frustrated and angry. This is<fine for those - and the numbers seem to be increasing - who enjoy being frustrated and angry. If you enjoy perpetual pointless argument, keep on goin'.
<<<
MMario, Shambles doesn't<want a resolution. He doesn't want<to understand or even honestly express what he personally DOES want because a clear goal can<be either met<or dismissed and his day in<the spotlight will<be over.
<<<
Would everyone involved in arguing with Shambles do me a favor? Ask yourself what you hope to accomplish in threads like<this, and why your method will be effective. If your goal<is anything other than 'more of the same', you<may want to<do<a reality check.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 13 May 05 - 03:12 PM

again - shambles - you are not answering the question I asked.

do you or do you not understand Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content of this site at any time.

This is despite any stated or unstated editorial policy. it is a right conveyed by Max's ownership of the site.

I do not see how you could possibly not understand this. I do not ask that you agree with it. but it is indeed true and nothing anyone (even Max) says changes that fact.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 May 05 - 03:29 PM

Somrthing tells me that M.Mario is a 'volunteer'

MMario

I will not demand answers from you. I do not have that right. The following are your words - they are not Max's words.

Max and/or his designated assignees have the right to delete or edit any content of this site at any time.

Everyone else is supposed to now follow it - why are you ignoring the words of the EDITORIAL POLICY - or do you think they not apply to you?

There is always a balance with our rights. If your words were pinned-up when Max started our forum and I first posted - you may have a point. But they were not - were they?

MMario - 'don't sweat the rules - for there are none' were not your words either.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 May 05 - 03:40 PM

Perhaps Jeri if you do not wish to post and say anything to me - could you please set a better example and not post publicly to say things about me?

It would be considered as offensive to do this in company and it is just as offensive to do this online.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: GUEST,john q. public
Date: 13 May 05 - 03:47 PM

not in this case.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: Jeri
Date: 13 May 05 - 03:48 PM

Perhaps Jeri if you do not wish to post and say anything to me - could you please set a better example and not post publicly to say things about me?

I probably could, but I will not. Shouldn't you be setting an example of not criticising another poster's contribution anyhow? LOL

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 May 05 - 04:06 PM

Jeri

Some may say that your contribution was a just personal attack and name-calling of a fellow poster.

Some may even ask our volunteers to delete it.

Jeri do you think there any chance of you imposing editing action upon your own post - or of any other volunteer doing this?

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: GUEST,restating the obvious
Date: 13 May 05 - 04:17 PM

making a comment about truths that are self evident is not name calling nor a personal attack.

Subject: RE: Objections to Joe Offer
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 05 - 01:26 AM

This is just like soap operas.

I once (for a period of four or five months) watched The Young and the Senseless"--part of a school project. I then didn't see it for many years. I watched it again, and within two or three days was right up to speed again, just like I'd never left.

Deja vu all over again.