Can someone do me a big favour please?

Subject: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,Member, but anon for this :)
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:29 PM

I was wondering if someone could perhaps have a read through some lyrics i have written, and give me an honest opinion... i'm not fishing for compliments, or a glutton for punishment, i just could use some impartial criticism. I'm sure you all know how hard it is to get it from friends and family :) Any help would be deeply appreciated. Thankyou :)

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,Memeber, but anon for this :)
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:31 PM

Please bear in miond that some of my songs are quite political, and you might not agree with my politics...also there are some swearwords in some of them :)

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:32 PM

Well, post 'em... you'll find out what folks think of them easily enough

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:33 PM

one thing we aren't short of around here are opinions.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:35 PM

Is there any way i could do it through PM's? Sorry, i'm just kinda shy:)

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,Sorch
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:41 PM

Can't use the PM feature if you aren't logged in.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,memeber but anon for this :)
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:44 PM

Oh, crap, yeah...ok, let me go out and get almightily drunk, then i'll come back and post the word right out in the open, where they probably oughtn't be. Be back after chuckin out time :)

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:51 PM

Well, you're more than likely a Brit....LOL

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Peace
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:53 PM

Message me if you want.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:57 PM

PM 'em to me, and I'll post 'em FOR you... that way only -I- know who you really are...

Bidding on the ID of said poster starts at 50 bucks!

LOL

Seriously... PM 'em to me, and I'll post 'em for ya

And I won't 'tell'

:-)

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 May 05 - 05:29 PM

Just start a new membership with any name you like and post them here. Or PM them to people. Keeping IDs secret is not a problem on Mudcat. Very few people know I am also Martin Gibson, CarolC, Masato Sakurai and DougR.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: michaelr
Date: 03 May 05 - 12:24 AM

Keeping IDs secret is not a problem on Mudcat.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Martin, I know it's you. Go away.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 May 05 - 02:28 AM

Well it is considerably past chucking out time... no sign of the lyrics though!!

LTS

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 May 05 - 03:00 AM

well okay if you like, but songwriting is pretty much about self expression. i think with most song writers and songs that I like, you have to sense a personality behind the words to really appreciate what is being said.

I think if you're a song writer you have to be John wayne rather than the Lone Ranger.

who was that masked man who laid that fantastic lyric on us?   I'm not sure it works.

Whereas John Wayne....... oh yeh I like him, what is he going to say this time?

Then you can concentrate on the elegance with which you say it.

of course there will be people who don't like you cos your John Wayne, but screw them!

At its best songwriting is like your soul speaking. What YOU'RE doing, its like if Figaro comes to the front of the stage for his solo song, puts a paper bag over his head and says, now try to forget this is me. People say that all the time in folk clubs - and its never the people whose passion to communicate will allow you to suspend your knowledge of who they are and identify with narrator of the song.

But good luck with your song writing. A song writer is a better thing to be than a serial killer or a drug dealer - its nothing to be ashamed of

all the best

big al whittle

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 May 05 - 03:19 AM

You can PM me too, if you want an opinion
It will be frank, though!

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Haruo
Date: 03 May 05 - 03:54 AM

Sure.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:00 AM

We have members here that are shy?

Somebody ought to write a song about that.

At this point, isn't this just "BS thread creep"?

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,member but anon for this:)
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:26 AM

Well, what happened was i went out and got drunk...but i accidentally got laid as well :) Distractions, everywhere...anyway, i may as well just effing post them, even if just to take my mind off the headache that's being inflicted upon me...

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Peace
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:27 AM

Is yer arse still sore?

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,Member but anon for this:)
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:30 AM

No Saints Anymore

Wisdom falls like rain
Like the rain it's free
But there's no one who will use it
Nobody cares to see
Money's for the wealthy
Politics for whores
Kindness is forgotten
There are no saints anymore

We began to doubt our past
Since our prophecies proved false
From the first until the last
We've ignored what we've been taught
History is screaming
Killing doesn't work
We are deaf unto it's warning
There are no saints anymore

Can you consider yourself free
Just as you are stood
Among the ruins of liberty
And the death of brotherhood
Patriots and zealots
Are leaving weeping sores
There's no one left to heal them
There are no saints anymore

A world ruled by temptation
Strange weather and strange dreams
Nation against nation
Hunger against greed
Another tragedy
Another fucking war
The whole place is forsaken
There are no saints anymore


---------------------------------------------------------------------


Holy Way to Sin

Well the morning seemed to break before
The night had time to pass
And as the sun grew stronger
We were fading fast
Oh, we're the wild ones, you and me
But somewhere between getting free
And trying to keep our dignity
We lost our way

You looked at me
Just like a child might
Your innocence shone
Through the glare of a bad night
And written in the lines upon your face
I saw your need and your restraint
Felt my desire burn again
I turned away

I was young and cynical
You were an old romantic fool
And somewhere in between we found
An element of truth
Feeling wise and whiskey soaked
We hid behind the words we spoke
But we both knew what would unfold
Didn't we, babe?

For the same old reasons
We fell together again
Just looking for release
Using love to heal our pain
But the way the sunlight fell upon your skin
Made it seem a holy way to sin
And just for a while, I will admit
I loved you, hey
I loved you, babe


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, there's two of em...

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:33 AM

oh get on with it!
sing you bugger sing!

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:43 AM

as poetry - I've seen a lot worse.

As songs - hard to tell without music.

'Holy way to sin' seems to be the weaker work to me. 'No saints anymore "grabs" me more strongly; but not goosebump strong if that makes any sense.

And I (if it were my choice) would probably truncate the final line of each verse in 'No saints anymore' to that alone - drop the "There are" - it scans better. and there seems to be a beat missing in the line "another tragedy" - I'd probably change that to "another senseless tragedy"

My opinions of course.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:49 AM

"No Saints....

My first impression is that it just 'says' everything, rather than allowing the reader/listener to 'understand'. That is, it is mostly preaching, rather than poetry.
Not knowing a tune, I couldn't say how it would flow, but it reads like something that would go over well at an anti-war rally, but not in a living room.

It is VERY hard, when you feel something strongly, to slightly understate the point rather than just painting a stark picture which says "here's how the world is....I'll explain it so you won't have to think"

-------------------------

The 2nd one is just not something I can't wrap my head around to comment on either way. It sounds like 'singing your diary', and since it is not like MY diary, I have no way to evaluate it.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,member but anon for this
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:51 AM

Thanks for your comments, people.....i know it's hard without the music there:)

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:57 AM

MMario makes some pretty astute observations. I agree with the first lyric being the stronger of the two...but for some strange reason I "hear" the second lyric sounding better in a song - if that makes any sense - even though its meaning is a little less clear.

But like MMario says - hard to tell without the music. The lyrics stand up pretty well by themselves.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:57 AM

Hey, El Greko.. I didn't know you were Frank.

I'm Jerry, but I'm sometimes Frank, too

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 May 05 - 12:52 PM

I quite liked them, and again, feel that the first is the stronger of the two. With the right tune and a bit of tweaking, the 'goosebump' factor could be there.

The second paints some pretty pictures but doesn't tell a very interesting story. You can get away with a poor story if you have a stunning tune and great imagery... unfortunately we can't 'hear' the tune and the imagery is good in places. The first verse made me feel nostalgic (especially liked the line 'the morning seemed to break before the night had time to pass' - that sums up a whole year of my life!) and I wanted to hear more, but the passion seemed to fade and interest waned.

Just my opinion... well you did ask!

LTS

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 05 - 02:02 PM

WeeLittle your lyrics suck you should follow the style of But-Non's in this thread. Yours need to be shorter and punchier and have some rhyme.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 May 05 - 03:30 PM

OK, here goes:
Overall, I prefer the first. The second is too personal, it leaves no room for me to imagine myself in a similar situation.

In both: If you are going to use rhymes, tighten them. Don't accept "good enough" rhyming - "sores" with "anymore", for example; the English language is rich and you can do better.

In both: You are writing as "you feel it", saying "what you have to say". Good for therapy, bad for songwriting. Harvey Andrews would stop you from using the first person ("I") for the first 20 songs... I won't say that, but I will advise this: Don't write about the things you have to say so much, as write the songs you want to hear. Write the songs you wish someone else would write. Put yourself in the listener's shoes - a listener without your experiences. Will they "get it"? Will they find something of themselves in the song? For if they don't the song will not resonate in them, and they will not remember it.

In line with the above: Be more visual, paint pictures. Be indirect, rather than direct in your descriptions of feelings. That lets the listener participate.

Use of profanity: It has a place, but can be easily abused. Profanity is dangerous for two reasons: It will alienate some of your listeners and you will lose them; and it generally overstates things, it brings them up front, rather than understate - which is what you should be doing. You don't need to say "another fucking war" to show your frustration and disgust; you can say it just as well with "bloody", "effing", "stupid" etc - intensity of feeling should be performed rather than be given in words like a recipe.

Put away the song and come back to it 24 hours later. Does it still ring true? And another 24 hours - and so on. Don't just show it to the world right away; it's a fragile thing and should be still growing inside you, not be vomited out with the fresh intensity of recent experience. I am referring of course to the second song - if that was simply the morning after's account of you getting sloshed and laid, how do you know how you will feel about it a week from now, when its impact and your feelings have settled in you?

Songs that are about intensity of feeling are best written in the cold light of hindsight, otherwise they become too slushy. Let the clay harden.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 May 05 - 09:25 PM

Guest who wants the favour - your lyrics are okay.. I'm sure with the right interpreter you could produce a really nice piece of music.

Guest who dare not speak his name - I write the way I want. I don't need useful pointers from you or anybody else. i don't why you have chosen to insult my work - maybe you think I was rude to Guest One - no insult was intended . maybe our e-mails crossed in the post - he hadn't posted the lyrics when I wrote - and I was beginning to wonder what the hell he was talking about.

i don't need to insult anybody, neither do you. Few songwriters make money. i think the PRS colecting agency said that only 2 or three percent make over a thousand a year from songwriting. Yet we put our resources and talent on the line to produce something. Several of my middle aged colleagues have died without ever seeing their work on a major label. But I don't think they would have regretted a minute of the time or a penny of the money they spent trying to create something beautiful.

ask yourself why you need to go through life being hurtful. If you keep deveoping a talent to abuse, one day it will be someone you care about counting the seconds til they can get away from your company.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Gypsy
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:26 PM

Silly me, i liked both of them. Only real comments i can make are two: Drop the profanity.....song is powerful, and that just weakens it. And rather than psuedo-fanity, i would go for a descriptive word, like "dirty" , 'filthy" or something along those lines.
Liked the second song equally well.......think alot of people have been there.
Comment number two: try really hard to have a good melody on these. We have loads of singer-songwriters in our neck of the woods, and that seems to be the week link. If it is poetry with music in the background, fine. If it is a song, you should be able to whistle the melody.
Good work!

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 May 05 - 03:30 AM

So Anon Member, have we totally offended you and been struck off your Christmas card list?

It's your work, you are allowed to contradict people!

LTS

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 May 05 - 04:39 AM

Use www.rhymezone.com when you get stuck for rhymes. Not brilliant, it won't give you the more unusual/interesting rhymes, but it sure helps.

I second Gypsy's comment - too many songwriters (especially the introverted kind that just wants to speak their anguish and pay no attention to being entertaining) make do with boring little tunes. I have a CD from someone (not a 'catter) where every track sounds the same - and I mean EXACTLY! An interesting tune, and hopefully one which will suit the lyric and enhance its mood, will help the song become memorable.

Think also about "hooks" - in music and in lyric: those short phrases that will be stuck in the listener's mind for days after they heard the song. Not every song has them, but those that do are certainly catchier.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,Fur
Date: 04 May 05 - 07:03 AM

I liked them both - the second more than the first. Only thing that jarred was the use of the word "unto".
I reckon you have a talent for writing & it seems like it probably flowed out nicely. Loads of people have advice for you - which is all useful stuff, but don't let it stifle what you already have.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:25 PM

*grin* There are songs I have learned specifically because the tunes were "earworms" for me. Sometimes it's the lyrics, sometimes it's the tune - the best ones it is both.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: darkriver
Date: 04 May 05 - 02:02 PM

FWIW, you can PM me, and include your lyrics, and I'll PM you back with my private and of course scintillating opinions.

doug

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 05 May 05 - 05:18 AM

Bugger the tunes! Tell us more about getting "accidentally laid". Did you report this accident to the authorities? Are you covered by insurance? Was it yet another sad case of Date Rape?
I am on a mission to catch out these wicked females, and often visit gin palaces etc but so far I have to report I have had no luck.

Subject: RE: Can someone do me a big favour please?
From: GUEST,Cromdubh
Date: 05 May 05 - 01:43 PM

I`m a recent member and did expactly as you did, Posting songs just to get an some feedback on a few things I wrote. There are alot of very accomplished songwriters visiting this site.

For what it`s worth, I liked the songs and as said earlier it`s hard to judge a song solely on it`s lyrics. But I assume you just wanted an opinion on the lyrics, since that`s all we came see.

Especially liked

I was young and cynical
You were an old romantic fool

Don`t know if you have music for them, but little changes to make them flow better, will come naturally. If certain word are tricky to sing, just make the slight nessessary changes.