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Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'

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NOT IN THE BOOK


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voyager 12 Apr 21 - 03:56 PM
GUEST,Mysha 21 Aug 20 - 06:22 AM
GUEST,Mysha 21 Aug 20 - 06:10 AM
GUEST,Mysha 21 Aug 20 - 05:46 AM
Joe Offer 20 Jul 17 - 05:20 PM
EBarnacle 20 Jul 17 - 04:08 PM
Joe Offer 20 Jul 17 - 03:41 PM
EBarnacle 20 Jul 17 - 02:23 PM
Joe Offer 20 Jul 17 - 02:06 PM
EBarnacle 20 Jul 17 - 01:09 PM
Joe Offer 20 Jul 17 - 02:39 AM
Joe Offer 05 May 16 - 12:32 AM
Joe Offer 18 Feb 16 - 03:48 AM
Joe Offer 06 Jan 16 - 02:47 AM
Amos 01 Jan 16 - 11:45 PM
GUEST,TomC 01 Jan 16 - 11:22 PM
Joe Offer 26 Dec 15 - 07:15 PM
Joe Offer 18 Dec 15 - 09:11 PM
Rex 18 Dec 15 - 08:28 PM
Roger the Skiffler 30 Oct 15 - 04:43 AM
Joe Offer 30 Oct 15 - 04:13 AM
ChanteyLass 29 Oct 15 - 08:33 PM
Roger the Skiffler 29 Oct 15 - 05:14 AM
GUEST,bbc 19 Oct 15 - 09:55 PM
GUEST 19 Oct 15 - 10:54 AM
Joe Offer 11 Sep 15 - 12:59 AM
ChanteyLass 10 Sep 15 - 11:07 PM
maeve 09 Sep 15 - 01:43 PM
Joe Offer 09 Sep 15 - 12:53 PM
Corn Field 09 Sep 15 - 11:50 AM
wysiwyg 09 Sep 15 - 09:04 AM
Joe Offer 23 Aug 15 - 09:30 PM
wysiwyg 23 Aug 15 - 07:48 PM
Joe Offer 23 Aug 15 - 06:40 PM
Bill D 23 Aug 15 - 09:50 AM
Joe Offer 22 Aug 15 - 07:39 PM
Bill D 22 Aug 15 - 01:53 PM
ChanteyLass 21 Aug 15 - 11:09 PM
Joe Offer 21 Aug 15 - 01:28 AM
Joe Offer 16 Aug 15 - 05:16 PM
artbrooks 14 Aug 15 - 09:06 AM
GUEST,# 13 Aug 15 - 10:19 PM
ChanteyLass 13 Aug 15 - 09:01 PM
Joe Offer 13 Aug 15 - 07:03 PM
GUEST,# 13 Aug 15 - 05:16 PM
Will Fly 13 Aug 15 - 07:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: voyager
Date: 12 Apr 21 - 03:56 PM

A belated shout out to editor J.O. for editing this great songbook.
This will be a great update to my Fireside Book of American Music that I had to rebind with duct tape this week (lol)

Gone, Gonna Rise Again (Si Kahn)

Sing out
voyager


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: GUEST,Mysha
Date: 21 Aug 20 - 06:22 AM

Hi,

The question that the post above was a BTW to, which I completely forgot in trying to make the title index work, was:

Do you have a list of "didn't make it in time" titles? I could imagine that some might have given consent after the deadline. And some might still be tried again, or might have alternatives that haven't been tried because all you needed for that one version was the permission you asked for. All this to say: Such a list might play a part for Rise Up Unlimited.

(Place for a BTW.)

Bye
Mysha


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: GUEST,Mysha
Date: 21 Aug 20 - 06:10 AM

BTW, Joe:

If you're involved in the indexes for the books, could you suggest an index that covers both books?

Also, if you are, could you or anyone else check that it's possible to follow the alphabet links on top of the page? E.g. ALPHABETICAL SONG LIST should go to the start of A if the A is clicked. (It wouldn't do that anyway, for a reason that eludes me so far, but that's a different issue.) For me, those links are actually something much more complicated, that don't actually go anywhere.

Bye
Mysha


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: GUEST,Mysha
Date: 21 Aug 20 - 05:46 AM

Hi,

I don't have the books with me, but would there be room enough to add markings to the next editions to indicate "a capella; chords for practice only" and "call and response; chorus sing only every other line"?

Bye
Mysha


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 05:20 PM

Agreed, but I lost the battle, anyhow. The chords won't be removed until the third volume of "Fall Over Laughing" (your words, not mine) is released. Peter and Annie have no desire to do a third volume, but they said I can have the job.
I figured we could make it an all-Mudcat, all-Volunteer, all-Folk effort. Hey, we could call it The Digital Tradition!

Maybe since the second book was titled Rise Again should the third be titled Not Again! ???? But generally, I like both books and I'm proud to be associated with them.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 04:08 PM

A simple solution would be to refer the reader to sites that present the song and not include the chords for a capella pieces.
Presenting chords does not really give the melody to people who don't have an idea of what it should be.
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 03:41 PM

Oh, that brings up another issue. A couple of us insisted that Rise Again should NOT include guitar chords with songs that are traditionally sung a cappella, but we lost that battle. Peter Blood agreed that we might be right, but that chords give at least some idea of the melody. I'll grant him that point; but as a result, you will often see guitarists playing when people are singing sea songs or ballads from our two songbooks.

There are also singers who insist on having everyone sing all of the words to all of the verses on call-and-response sea chanteys. It is to gag for.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 02:23 PM

I agree you did a good job. The version of Mingulay they do misses on both scanning and the words themselves. Plus, they insist on accompanying it.

My qvetch is as much about the people who are locked into "their" book as it is about what is the correct way of running a group. If it's a group, all of the participants should be audible, not just the "experts." To me acoustic means unamplified and unmodified. This group fails on several counts.
It does make me appreciate the sound man who works with us [the Sloop Singers] at the Hudson River Revival even more. The sound guy can make or break a group--but that's another thread.


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 02:06 PM

Hi, EBarnacle. I think we had five Arabic songs under consideration for the Rise Again songbook that came out in 2015. I think we got one in, and that one was half in English. The fault is partly mine - I spent hours and hours trying to track down people who could give us licenses for publication, and failed. There was one song I remember where I came across several articles saying how litigious the songwriter was in protecting her rights to her works - but I could never find out how to get past the lawsuits and get legal permission. Our publisher, Hal Leonard, didn't want to deal with litigation. There were lots of songs that Hal Leonard already had permission for, but it was my job to track down rights for the ones not already covered by Hal Leonard. I think Hal Leonard gave us March 30 2015 as the deadline for licenses. Any unlicensed songs were dropped. The book came out about August 15 2015.

We tried to stick with songs that people would be likely to learn, and we didn't come up with any Balkan songs. I'm quite proud of the number of Yiddish, Hebrew, Spanish, French, German, and Italian songs we were able to include - Mudcatter Monique worked with me extensively on our foreign-language songs.

But yeah, I failed on the Balkan and Arabic front. What can I say? No Asian-language songs I can think of. A coupla Russian songs, maybe - but no other Slavic languages.

I did get "Mingulay Boat Song" right. I bought an old copy of a Hugh Roberton songbook, and copied the lyrics from there.

By the way, Mudcat was the primary research tool used on the Rise Again Songbook - and I was the primary researcher.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 01:09 PM

Going back to an earlier part of this thread, I have recently come across a rather horrifying [at least to me] version of singing by the book.
There is a local meetup group which gathers each Thursday. It advertises itself as "acoustic" but makes little effort to minimize the amplified performers. There is a mix of performer levels from beginners through advanced.
The real horror is threefold. First, the amped performers make it difficult to hear the others, like the person next to you. Second, the official "book" is a website with the versions of the songs done by the group so that the leader of a song says "Let's do X" and everyone goes to that song in the collection. Finally, there is no encouragement to sing or play harmonies. Everyone works in unison, often poorly.
Lady Hillary attends this group to help her learn harmonica and is also learning mandolin. I wonder when she will decide she has gotten better than what they do and will look for a better venue.
A few weeks ago, when I came to pick her up she called up Mingulay Boat Song for me and their official lyrics were almost unrecognizable.

Joe, as one who sees a shortage of Yiddish songs in the circles I attend, I noted the relative absence of Balkan and Arabic songs in the indices you posted. Is that something to look forward to in Fall over Laughing 3?


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Subject: Spotify Playlists for Rise Up Singing Songbook
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 02:39 AM

Somebody made up Spotify playlists for the chapters in the Rise Up Singing Songbook. Check these out, and let me know if any aren't working properly.


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 May 16 - 12:32 AM

After the Rise Again Songbook came out in August, 2015, editors Peter Blood and Annie Patterson put us to work building a database of information meant to supplement the songs in the songbook. It's not quite finished, but it's now available online. Take a look here:The most significant feature, is a collection links to YouTube recordings of almost every song in the book. Of course, I'm proud of the links to Mudcat threads, the Traditional Ballad Index, the Roud Index, and Wikipedia. That was my part of the job.

Now we're working on a second database, a supplement to the Rise Up Singing (RUS) songbook. I'm having trouble finding online information on many of the songs in RUS. I thought I knew all those songs, but there are many I never knew were there.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Feb 16 - 03:48 AM

Here's a link to the YouTube channel for the Rise Again and Rise Up Singing Songbooks:
Here are some other playlists for songs from Rise Up Singing:


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jan 16 - 02:47 AM

Here's a list of Spotify playlist links for each chapter in the Rise Again Songbook:

If you're a member of Spotify and you're logged in, the link should take you direct to the playlist. If you're not a Spotify member, the link will lead you to the form where you can sign up for membership - which is free (at least for now).

Hope you enjoy these songs.

-Joe Offer, Associate Editor-
Rise Again Songbook


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Amos
Date: 01 Jan 16 - 11:45 PM

At the monthly song circle of the San Diego Folk Song SOciety, founded long ago by no less a personage than Sam Hinton, the chairman was full of glee at having sacquired this surprising, exciting new volume of Singing. He gloated and shared with rare enthusiasm, especially because he'd gotten an edition in large text. Your fame is spreading!


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: GUEST,TomC
Date: 01 Jan 16 - 11:22 PM

Joe, I found some incorrect lyrics in a song when compared to the sheet music version. Where can the corrections be sent?
    Hi, Tom - There will be room for that on the riseupandsing.org Website when we get it finished (soon, I hope). In the meantime, send them to me, joe@mudcat.org
    -Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Dec 15 - 07:15 PM

I made Spotify playlists for each chapter of Rise Again, but I haven't been able to make them work the way I want them to. I'd like to have them work for people without them having to "follow" me.
How's this link?

I think you have to be registered with Spotify for it to work, but maybe not.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 09:11 PM

Thanks, Rex.
I don't know why Hal Leonard makes such small print runs, but I'm glad the first run was small - the index had wrong page numbers for about 100 songs. There are lyrics corrections and a link to the index correction sheet here:

The second printing came out in October, with a corrected index. We sold out the second printing in mid-November. I think that means we've sold 40,000 copies. The third printing came out this week. I'm hoping to get restocked by Christmas.

As Rex says, Amazon doesn't have its prices straight, so they're charging a bargain price for the large-format edition, cheaper than you can get it from me or from the editors, Peter Blood and Annie Patterson.

But to my mind, the best way to get the book is to order it from the editors, Peter Blood and Annie Patterson:They're nice people and this is how they make their living. They'll give you a 20% discount if you buy 5 copies, and an even better discount if you buy boxes of 15 copies.

I have a supply of books that I sell to people in Northern California, but I can sell you a copy if you have problems getting one from other sources. If you are outside the United States, the best way to get the book may be to go to the Amazon address that serves your area. I've had some problems with that. I sent a copy to Jack Campin through http://amazonUK.mudcat.org. The next day, I tried to send a copy to Tattie Bogle the same way, and it didn't work. So, I paid the horrendous postage and sent it direct to her. Whether she liked it or not, Tattie Bogle got a copy autographed by Associate Editor Joe Offer, which I'm not sure is something that adds value to the book...

I cringe every time I find a mistake in the book, but I guess the adage that "shit happens" is true. We're collecting corrections, and we will include all of them in a future edition. We can't add all the corrections as they come in, because it costs a lot to make new plates if the old ones aren't worn out. We corrected the index because that was essential, but a new edition with song corrections won't come for a while. So far, the only song that is totally screwed up is "Four/Seven Nights Drunk," which has corrections on the Website. There are lots more minor corrections - those are the ones that make me cringe. I wish they could be corrected right away, but I'm told we have to wait.

If you have any corrections to submit, send them to me.

I guess it's the same with any such project - there will always be some mistakes, and there will always be some things that could have been better. But all in all, I think it's a very good songbook, and I'm glad to have had a part in making it.

-Joe Offer-
joe@mudcat.org


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Rex
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 08:28 PM

I got a copy of Rise Again a few months ago. I followed Joe's suggestion and ordered the lower price (and larger with ring binding) version. After taking my time looking through it all I am very pleased to have it in my library. I was happy to see it similar in format to Rise Up Singing and Winds of the People that came before. There are many of my old favorites and new material placed in thoughtful subject sets. Even with cross referencing! Nice. But perhaps the best part of Rise Again are the gems I am finding that I never knew existed. Thank you to Joe and everyone that put this together. A songbook for those who know their way around a song or a concert hall and also for those who do not.

Rex


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 30 Oct 15 - 04:43 AM

Previously I posted to the wrong thread. As I've said on the MC FB page, I had a mysterious sack to open on my birthday and it was Rise Again. What a wonderful selection, popular as well as traditional. Well done, Joe and collaborators.
RtS


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Oct 15 - 04:13 AM

Hi, Joe - I think "Battle Hymn" was skipped because it was too commonly known, so there wouldn't be a great need for it in a book.
"St. Louis Blues" would be a good one for the list I'm compiling for Book #3.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 29 Oct 15 - 08:33 PM

I didn't realize my cookie had crumbled when I posted on Oct. 19 at 10:54 AM. I had fun singing along on Sunday evening with Peter and Annie, Bill Harley, Charlie King, and Magpie. I came home with the book I'd pre-ordered plus two more to give as gifts plus two copies of Rise Up Singing to give as gifts. I've had my own copy of RUS for many years.   I am now happy and broke but have only a few more Christmas presents to buy!


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Subject: Rise Again Songbook
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 29 Oct 15 - 05:14 AM

My birthday copy arrived -wrapped up in a useful sack! Great selection, a tribute to all your hard work, Joe and friends.

RtS


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: GUEST,bbc
Date: 19 Oct 15 - 09:55 PM

Got my copy, Joe! Thanks for your hard work!

Best always,

Barbara


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Oct 15 - 10:54 AM

I know that people from elsewhere think RI has only two communities, Newport and Providence, but I didn't want anyone thinking they could have dinner in Prov. and be only a few minutes from the concert venue which is about a half-hour drive to Tiverton!

I've got a ticket and book reserved for me by a friend who does money stuff online. I don't, and hoping to get a ticket at the door is a chance I don't want to take.


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Sep 15 - 12:59 AM

Yeah, Chantey Lass, you're right about the price difference. For now, Amazon is selling the books for less than the discounted price Peter and Annie can sell them for - and for some reason, they're selling the large-format book cheaper than the small one.

If you want the large-format book, order it for $16.03 plus tax from Amazon. If you want the small-format book, order it from Peter & Annie for $20, taxes paid.

Sooner or later, Amazon will find out it has the prices mixed up.

-Joe-

P.S. Oh, and Chanty Lass - for people who have no ties to Rhode Island, everything that isn't Newport, is Providence.
I know better, because I married a Woonsocket girl who isn't even French...(her first language was Polish, but she's a vegetarian and I'm the one who loves Polish food).


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 10 Sep 15 - 11:07 PM

I'm hoping to get to the concert at Sandywoods in Tiverton, RI, and buy my copy there. Joe, the price for copies there seems different from what you indicated.https://www.riseupandsing.org/events/rise-again-providence

Sandywoods is not in Providence. It is in the far northeastern corner of RI, and the best way for me to get there is to drive from my RI home through several MA communities including Fall River and re-enter RI!


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: maeve
Date: 09 Sep 15 - 01:43 PM

Joe, thank you for your hard and sometime frustrating work on this edition of 'Rise Again'. I very much appreciate your care in selecting lyric versions with a view toward accuracy and understanding of the way songs can flex, and stating the intended use for the book. Those who understand how to use it will benefit, and the others are at least trying to sing.


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Sep 15 - 12:53 PM

Hi, Corn Field -

All the Rise Again books I've seen are spiral bound, and I've seen hundreds. I asked editor Peter Blood, and he's not certain what bindings Hal Leonard is going to come up with. The "paperback" book that's currently $16.03 at Amazon, has a cover that's 9 inches by 12 inches. The "spiral-bound" book that's listed as $25 at Amazon. has a smaller size, 7.5 by 10 inches - and it's temporarily out of stock. So, for now, the larger format is cheaper at Amazon. I ordered a dozen of the cheaper books, and was surprised to get them in large format.

On their concert tour, Peter Blood and Annie Patterson are selling the large books for $25 and the small ones for $20, tax included. The large books were printed first, about August 15. I'm guessing the small books started printing about the end of August. We're having trouble keeping up with demand on the small books right now, but I imagine things will balance out by sometime in October.

Sing Out! did print some "perfect-bound" (glued, not spiral) versions of Rise Up Singing, but the spiral bound books have been far more popular. My guess is that Hal Leonard will stick with spiral binding for both sizes of both books.

I went to Peter and Annie's weekend workshop at the Quaker Center in the redwoods of Ben Lomond, California, over Labor Day. It was delightful. In their sessions, Peter and Annie concentrated on songs the audience wasn't likely to know. During free time, groups gathered in various locations to try out other stuff. We had a lot of fun with the Motown, Rock, British Invasion, and Surfin' chapters. Not particularly folk music, but it sure was fun.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Corn Field
Date: 09 Sep 15 - 11:50 AM

I pre-ordered the one that is described as "Spiral Bound" on Amazon.
The photo for the one that is currently shipping shows it is also spiral bound.
Are both the normal and large print versions spiral bound?


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Sep 15 - 09:04 AM

JOE--

Is an index for RUS ONE already posted some where? If not, I have one I can email you. (I'm working on a cross reference of the two to carry in my sing bag.)

~S~


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:30 PM

Some of my best friends view Rise Up Singing users with disdain. It hurts sometimes, since I've been identified with the book since almost the very beginning. And now I'm associate editor of the sequel, and what are they going to think of me now?

I suppose I have to accept the fact that we all think of each other as caricatures, and those caricatures allow us to know so little about what people are in reality. Some people who use Rise Up Singing are really obnoxious and are really horrible singers, and they fit the caricature. Other people who use the book are actually quite enjoyable to listen to, so much so that we forget that they're looking at a book while they're singing.

And I suppose it will be the same with Rise Again. Hell, even Bill Day would disdain me....if he didn't know me.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 07:48 PM

I participate in two well led singing communities that use RUS, and each one also has a self-compiled (printed) collection of songs. I've started a third, as recently described elsewhere.

Each of these groups uses not only RUS and their own songbook, but one another's collections as well. Both groups quite happily welcomed (and actively supported) my starting the third group.

In none of these does anyone object to playing together from the books to learn a new piece, and once they're familiar with a song many members add lovely improvised or harmony parts-- there are no Book Police. And just like Mudcat threads, if an individual wants to add a second or third arrangement to the book, that's fine too.

General agreement to singing or playing in the key set by the person choosing the song is just about the only requirement.... except that in an effort to keep folk and bluegrass distinct, one group frowns on banjos.

People in these groups (and leading th may not be total purists who conform to some other leaders' notions of what the rules ought to be-- but they do sound like they're having the kind of fun Pete Seeger described in RUS. They're growing in numbers-- and in songs enjoyed.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 06:40 PM

Hi, Bill - gee, I thought our discussions on "Yon Yonson" and "Dunderbeck" were exemplary exchanges of great examples of the Folk Process. I didn't notice anyone saying that theirs was the only correct version.

Oh, and in Wisconsin, it's "Johnny Verbeck." "Dunderbeck" is the commercial version of the song, sung by people who don't really know....

My version was made up by kids who used to be in my Boy Scout troop....I think.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:50 AM

Joe... that is exactly the sort of admonition/disclaimer/warning/introduction this book needs, and I'm glad that it was included. The real problem is that it is mostly lost on those who need it the most.
People often post ...or ask about.... odd little songs from their childhood here. Yon Yonson, or Dunderbeck's Machine or recently, the one that refers to "Macedonians in full battle array"
Some one will give lyrics, and others will retype the whole thing to change one or two words! Even Dunderbeck's Machine gets argument that it should be "Johnny Rebeck". "That's the way my grandfather sang it!"
The same basic problem is seen when someone asks for the words...or chords... or tune... or all three... to some song 'covered' by someone famous, whether it is anywhere near traditional or not. They heard it that way first, and by golly, they don't WANT any corrections or suggestions!
The point is that far too many simply do-not-want to be exposed to 'new' versions... or even the author's original, if known. It is very like the resistance to new translations of the Bible by those brought up on the King James version. RUS #1 became a bible for a lot of people, and those who commit to a bible often have the notion that everyone else 'should' realize that the *truth* is somehow embedded in it.
This is not a serious problem when like minded people gather and turn to page 47 in unison... but when they appear at an open forum attended by more ...ummmm... eclectic.... folk and read (awkwardly) with the Book in their face, it makes the whole thing awkward.
   
It has been said that any book that gets people to sing & share is a good thing, and may be a first step to a wider view of traditional music.... the important term being 'may'.


(*grin* Joe... you even help make my point in your use of a tune for "The Key of R".... but perhaps the very concept embodied in the song excuses deviation. I don't see it listed in the Book.... maybe just as well.)


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Aug 15 - 07:39 PM

Hi, Bill -
I worked very hard to try to ensure that the lyrics of all traditional songs in the book are authentic, and Editor Peter Blood accepted almost all my recommendations on the traditional songs. I typed up a caveat for the introduction to the book. I posted it above, but here it is again:
Here's the instruction box I've submitted for inclusion in the songbook:

As is the nature of Ballads and Old Songs, there are many versions of almost every song in this chapter, and in many other chapters in this book. There is no "correct" version of any traditional song, and the versions used here are certainly not intended to be the "definitive versions. For the most part, they were chosen simply because they are reasonably authentic versions that work well for group singing. When you sing a ballad or any old song, remember that the most important thing is to tell the story well. Research the many versions of a song when you learn it and listen to a number of recordings, and feel free to substitute words and verses and even melodies that work best for you. Make your presentation of the song clear and interesting and lively. Do your best to memorize the lyrics, and don't be afraid to make up a line or a verse "on the fly" if you forget. Don't be a slave to any particular version of the song - sing what works best for you. And never, never tell another singer that he/she is singing the "wrong" version of a song.


And here's how it ended up, after editing:

There are many versions of almost every "traditional" song in this book. There is no "correct" version of any traditional song, and the variants included here are in no way intended to be "definitive." For the most part, they were chosen because they are reasonably authentic versions that work well for group singing. Try researching different versions of a song you're learning and listening to a number of different recordings, Please don't use our books to tell another singer that he or she is singing the "wrong" version of a song!
Songs in the public domain are indicated in this book with "Arr.© 2015 Hal Leonard Corporation." under the song. The publisher has copyright to this particular arrangement, but you do not have to get permission to record or reprint lyrics to the song itself. For any other song you must contact the copyright owner of the song for permission to use it in any way.


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Aug 15 - 01:53 PM

Well.. now a crutch for BOTH arms? ;>)

I do not look forward to an additional list of songs (a couple of thousand now?) where people complain..or even interrupt... to say "you're singing it wrong"
as in
Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II
From: dick greenhaus - PM
Date: 15 Dec 12 - 11:43 AM

or
Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II
From: dick greenhaus - PM
Date: 15 Dec 12 - 05:05 PM

Ron Davies explained very well up in this thread how crib sheets **in general** are useful at times, but expecting everyone else to use the same crib sheet/book is not nice. I have not, like Barry Finn or Ron, walked out on a sing where The Book was used, but I cringe quietly. Fortunately, the FSGW Open Sing has only a couple who who use it. And the Getaway has only scattered occasions where it pops up.... and the Getaway has 3-7 other options at any one moment if one just cannot abide what is happening.

I do understand that Vol. 2 has made more of an attempt to avoid the most egregious errors and to pay 'more' attention to traditional versions of songs, but I have little doubt that it will still be used as The Bible, Book II by many.

I guess I'll just wait & see how it goes.


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 21 Aug 15 - 11:09 PM

I'm probably going to have to go to my local bookstore and have them get it for me because I don't buy online.


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Aug 15 - 01:28 AM

So, I got my copy in the mail today, and I'm pretty proud. It's like having a new grandchild, or something like that.

...and I quickly found my first typo. I swear I corrected that one, but apparently the correction didn't "take." I'm sure I'll find more mistakes, but the book looks very good. I have to say there a good number of songs in the book that I don't like, but that's a reminder that I'm Associate Editor, not the Editor. Oh, well.

But I think we can be proud of the work we did on this book. I hope you all like it.

The Website for the book is https://www.riseupandsing.org/. We'll soon have a database of the songs in the book, with YouTube links, and links to further information on almost every song.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 05:16 PM

Hi, Art -

I believe the backup material will be freely available to the public. We have YouTube links for almost every song, and I have the task of furnishing links (when available) for Wikipedia, Mudcat, Traditional Ballad Index, Roud, and songwriter Websites. We plan to have the Website up by September, but my part is going slowly. I have some 900 songs left to index, and I need my beauty rest.

I also made Spotify playlists for all the songs, but I'm wondering how to make sure everybody can find them. They're titled Rise Again - chaptertitle. Can anybody find them?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Aug 15 - 09:06 AM

Book ordered. Joe, is some sort of secret code going to be needed to access the online backup material?


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: GUEST,#
Date: 13 Aug 15 - 10:19 PM

Thanks for the info, Joe. Great work to you and Monique, btw.


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 13 Aug 15 - 09:01 PM

I look forward to getting my hands on this!


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Aug 15 - 07:03 PM

The book is available through Barnes & Noble, and I'm sure most booksellers can get it for you. You can also get it for an undiscounted price from the publisher, Hal Leonard. Also from Peter Blood and Annie Patterson's Website, https://www.riseupandsing.org/ - that's probably the best place.

Peter Blood told me last night that the large-format book is already available, although he hasn't seen a copy himself. I can't remember when I started getting PDF copies of sections of the book after they were laid out by Annie Patterson. I think it was April, maybe earlier. We got the completed book about June 1, and did proofreading until about July 1...with a few last-minute corrections after that.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: GUEST,#
Date: 13 Aug 15 - 05:16 PM

I do not buy stuff through Amazon. Is it available elsewhere?


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Aug 15 - 07:02 AM

Joe - I'm very impressed by your hard work and dedication.

I've never used a songbook in my life - always learned by heart whatever I've ever sung or played - except in those cases (usually at recording or backing sessions, or in a band I've just joined) where something unknown has been set down before me and I have to play it as is.

Nevertheless, we all have recourse to reference works from time to time - they can save hours of research - and we're indebted to people like you for their existence.

Thanks,

Will


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Aug 15 - 04:56 AM

Hi, Michael. Both books have 1200 songs, and there are no duplications between the two. My PDF stops at page 287, but doesn't include the index. I'm guessing the final page count will be 300. Rise Up Singing had 281 pages, including the index. We're hoping the font in Rise Again is a bit more legible than what we had in Rise Up Singing.

I did a pretty full research job on every song, usually providing editor Peter Blood with more than one text to choose from. I tried to find two printed sources and two recordings for each song, relying on the Internet as a primary source only if I couldn't find a printed source - I often had twenty books stacked up next to my desk. Some songs took me half an hour to research, some a couple of days. We did the whole thing on Google Docs, which was great for a community effort like we were doing. I also tracked down the copyright holders Hal Leonard couldn't reach. I think I made contact with 100% of the copyright holders that Hal Leonard didn't get, but not all of them gave permission. It was cool to wake up one morning to a phone call from Iris Dement. All the others were contacts by email.

Now I'm working on the supplemental database. It will be on the Website for the book, and will provide links for each song (if available) for Wikipedia, Mudcat, the songwriter's Website, Roud, and the Traditional Ballad Index. Oh, and a YouTube link for almost every song, and I've made Spotify playlists for all the songs. I'm also collecting English translations for all of our foreign language songs. Mudcat's Monique did translations for all the French and Spanish songs, and several other Mudcatters helped in various ways. It's been a lot of fun to work on this.

-Joe-

P.S. I wonder if Barry Finn is spinning in his grave, now that his friend Joe Offer is associate editor of the sequel to the "Blue Book." The Devil made me do it, Barry...


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 13 Aug 15 - 04:55 AM

Added to my Xmas wishlist.
RtS


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Aug 15 - 01:47 AM

Wow, Joe, that's huge - 1200 songs! How heavy is this tome? Or is it even more crammed than the original?


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Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing Book II: 'Rise Again'
From: maeve
Date: 12 Aug 15 - 08:51 PM

Good work, Joe. Thanks for your efforts


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