Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]


BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW

Dave the Gnome 10 Jan 10 - 06:11 AM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Jan 10 - 04:10 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Jan 10 - 01:13 PM
Tiocfaidh 29 Aug 05 - 06:04 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 29 Aug 05 - 12:28 AM
GUEST,DtG - not signed on yet... 28 Aug 05 - 05:07 AM
GUEST,Tiocfaidh 28 Aug 05 - 02:18 AM
Divis Sweeney 27 Aug 05 - 06:41 PM
Dave the Gnome 27 Aug 05 - 06:37 PM
Divis Sweeney 27 Aug 05 - 06:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 27 Aug 05 - 05:45 PM
Tiocfaidh 26 Aug 05 - 07:47 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Aug 05 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Aug 05 - 01:57 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Aug 05 - 10:52 AM
Leadfingers 26 Aug 05 - 09:44 AM
Leadfingers 26 Aug 05 - 09:43 AM
Paco Rabanne 26 Aug 05 - 09:17 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Aug 05 - 08:57 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Aug 05 - 08:54 AM
GUEST 26 Aug 05 - 08:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Aug 05 - 08:41 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Aug 05 - 08:38 AM
GUEST 26 Aug 05 - 08:31 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Aug 05 - 07:40 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Aug 05 - 07:37 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Aug 05 - 07:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Aug 05 - 07:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Aug 05 - 07:17 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Aug 05 - 06:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Aug 05 - 06:20 AM
The Curator 26 Aug 05 - 05:47 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 26 Aug 05 - 05:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Aug 05 - 04:56 AM
Tiocfaidh 26 Aug 05 - 02:59 AM
GUEST,Tír Chonaill 25 Aug 05 - 04:15 PM
GUEST,Tír Chonaill 23 Aug 05 - 09:37 PM
GUEST,Tír Chonaill 23 Aug 05 - 06:32 PM
GUEST,Tír Chonaill 23 Aug 05 - 06:31 PM
Divis Sweeney 23 Aug 05 - 02:18 PM
GUEST 23 Aug 05 - 01:55 PM
Tiocfaidh 23 Aug 05 - 12:25 PM
ard mhacha 23 Aug 05 - 12:23 PM
GUEST 23 Aug 05 - 12:18 PM
Tiocfaidh 23 Aug 05 - 11:47 AM
Tiocfaidh 23 Aug 05 - 11:42 AM
GUEST 23 Aug 05 - 11:38 AM
Tiocfaidh 23 Aug 05 - 11:23 AM
ard mhacha 23 Aug 05 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,Tír Eoghain 28 Jul 05 - 11:23 AM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:11 AM

They have indeed, Keith. Wonder what the bhoyos will do with their time now?

DeG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:10 AM

All this, and a sex and corruption scandal in Unionist politics.
But nobody has an opinion to express.
Times have changed indeed.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 01:13 PM

Wednesday. UDA announce weapons decommissioning complete.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8442683.stm
Friday. Police officer (catholic) terribly injured by Republican car bomb.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8447829.stm


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 06:04 PM

ECCE: The splintering of the Unionist vote


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 12:28 AM

Slight thread drift...

Last Saturday the Royal Black Institution marched through a Nationalist area of Castlederg, in my own home county, to much approval from the local residents.

This is who they are: The 'Black Men'


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,DtG - not signed on yet...
Date: 28 Aug 05 - 05:07 AM

Thanks, Tiocfaidh. I understand now. Rather than continue this tangenital (and possibly rather trivial) discussion on this important thread I have moved it elsewhere, as Tiocfaidh points out. I am sure you can spot it:-)

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tiocfaidh
Date: 28 Aug 05 - 02:18 AM

"When the most 'generous' one can be on the grievience addressing within a minority community curve is concerned, is apathetic, Dave, you are starting a bit further up the downright biased end of that scale to find where our happy medium lies..."

=

"... if the best the average Brit can be is apathetic,..." (... about addressing the grieviences of the minority community "... and the worst is downright hostile, wherein lies the average, Dave?"

But are people going to admit that they are anti-Irish...?
Is that the kind of thing one will say of themselves.

If it's like the North, it'll manifest itself in the psyche first.
That's where the most damage is done...

T'will be an interesting thread you've created next-door, methinks ....

;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 06:41 PM

Thanks, Dave.

E


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 06:37 PM

I'm not sure, Epona. I cannot say I have ever noticed a difference between people calling themselves British or English. Out of interest I call myself English but it seems that in any official documention I do not have that option. I have to be British apparantly:-(

Likewise in any form in which I am asked to describe my ethnic origins there is no sectiion for 'mongrel';-) I once asked an interviewer why I needed to give my ethnic origins. They said it was because the authority who were interviewing me had a policy of non-discriminination. If they didn't discrininate, I asked, why did they need to know my ethnic origin...

I am glad to say I didn't get the job:-)

As to 'non-bias'. I realised at a very early age how easy bias was and how people accepted it with no thought. It was during a rail strike in the 1960's and the newsreader on the BBC commented that the rail network had been brought to a standstill by union members wanting a payrise. I wondered at the time why they didn't report that the standstill had been caused by management refusing to pay a decent wage! I know now of course that neither statement was correct. The rail network was at a standstill was the only unbiased interpretation anyone could make. And how boring would that look in the history books..?

Cheers

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 06:00 PM

Dave,

What do you think of Tiocfaidh's distinction between those that refer to themselves as English and those that refer to themselves as British? That seemed to be a key point of his.

As for history books being subjective, very true! When getting an advance degree in history, students have to take a course called "Historiography" which, in essence, is the history of history. It tries to show students how bias cannot be kept out of historical writings, even if one tries. Purpose being to make one really question the accuracy of what she reads and judge it accordingly.

E


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Aug 05 - 05:45 PM

Phew! I think I know what you are on about, Tiocfaidh. But it is late on a Saturday;-)

I have problems with When the most 'generous' one can be on the grievience addressing within a minority community curve is concerned, is apathetic, Dave, you are starting a bit further up the downright biased end of that scale to find where our happy medium lies...

Ie - Not a clue what it means:-(

As to Now a Brit would not accept that 'version' of it at all.
Wasn't put that way in the history books, Dave, was it?


Again, wouldn't know. History books are so subjective don't you think? If I read one I have to read at least half a dozen. All disagree with each other. I'd rather listen to rumour...

Now. The crux as far as I see. I was particularly referring to the average Brit here, contributing to these boards, and their anti-Irish bent

There are indeed a number of people showing an anti-Irish bent here. I could probably name them all, it wouldn't take long. Which is my point all along. Because a very small percentage of the populus have had a go at the Irish is it right to say the average Brit is anti-Irish? I think not. But I am willing to accept that if a poll of British mudcatters shows an anti-Irish bent then I will accept that the average British 'catter is anti-Irish. In fact, I will start the poll myself. Whether people answer truthfuly or not is another matter;-)

Having been accused of defending the 'average Brit' once btw I feel I must put the record straight. I was born in England, love the place and will happily wave the flag of St George with the best of 'em. By ethnic origin however I am part Polish (now there IS an oppressed race!), part Russian, part Welsh and part English. My Grandparents were all first generation as listed. My father fled from Poland during WW2. I have no axe to grind whatsoever with people slagging of the British and will do so happily myself on most occasions. When they deserve it...

I do not think however that they deserve it in this case. The 'average Brit' on the Mudcat or anywhere else as far as I can see is no more anti-Irish than the average Pole, Russian or Welshman. There are a number of people here, as everywhere else, who will hold an anti-Irish viewpoint. I do not think that is a justification for saying that the average Brit is anti-Irish.

I am more than happy to be proven wrong and if anyone can provide me proof that an 'average' (by sensible standards) British contributor here or that an average Brit anywhere is anti-Irish I will hold up my hands in surrender. I don't think however that I will be suffering from shoulder strain in the near future:-)

Cheers

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 07:47 PM

Alright, alright, alright already!
Time Out!

T

... gotcha Pete!!! ;-)

Let's buckle down, and look at what we've got, should we?

I said: "your average Brit is as anti Irish as at least your average Unionist".
Tír Eoghain has qualified that by saying: "and the average Unionist is apathetic at the very least"

That, dear friends is the nub of the matter!

When the most 'generous' one can be on the grievience addressing within a minority community curve is concerned, is apathetic, Dave, you are starting a bit further up the downright biased end of that scale to find where our happy medium lies...

Let's look at it another way...

Take the Nationality, 'British', for a start.
What is that?
English? Welsh? Scottish? 'Northern Irish' (God help us...)? Jamaican? Indian? Australian?

'British' transcends National Identities and boundaries, and by definition is Empirical, David, old sort.
It's pretty difficult to get past such an overblown sense of superiority, when you are part of the 'Irish Problem', for instance.

It's also pretty difficult to get past the Party Political System in England.
The Conservatives will go down the plughole still waving the Union Jack, as the European Economic Community sucks it in whole, eventually.
Labour has kicked out all it's militant voices, and now stay afloat on a river of Political Correctness and Governmental spin; spending most of their time these days (it seems to me) to be always steering clear of the rapids at the mouth of Shit Creek...

You talk of World Poverty and the like, and why aren't we more vocal in those fields, and I can't argue with you there, at all.
The North of Ireland is your own backyard, however and for years the Establishment wouldn't listen to our grieviences, wishing instead that we would just 'go away'
We then were beaten sensless because we 'would not go away'.
And when we couldn't take any more of this rejection, we came out of that corner and were forced, in turn, to kick a bit of butt, back.

Now a Brit would not accept that 'version' of it at all.
Wasn't put that way in the history books, Dave, was it?

It's also quite funny (in a peculiar sort of way), that those who refer to themselves as 'English', (as opposed to 'British') seem to be much more amenable on a personal level, and who tire of this 'John Bull' image that the Nation is wont to portray.

British people generally speaking therefore, are not sympathetic to the grieviences of the minority; they never have been historically, and their attiitude has not seemed to change one iota since the Good Friday Agreement
... Aaaand, if the best the average Brit can be is apathetic, and the worst is downright hostile, wherein lies the average, Dave?

If you look at the posters to the previous 'Irish Bashing' threads, and ask them to support your call for equality (.. and I have...), so far I can't see anyone who has done it.
I can see a lot of people who, when they do grace us with their presence, do it only to take a swipe at our strivations for better conditions and equality.
They never listened when we marched peacefully....

Any of the other posters here who indicated that they mailed their MP, have not historically posted anything Anti-Irish, that I have seen.

Now... perhaps not enough to make a quorum, but I was particularly referring to the average Brit here, contributing to these boards, and their anti-Irish bent.

You have more or less accepted that, I think.

But take the society as a whole.

Remember that Chicken Tikka Masala is not England's favourite dish because you're all fierce multi-culturalists.

It's because it takes 5 mins in the microwave... on full power...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 05:18 PM

I don't know if I have been insulted or complimented! Really - I can't figure it out.

I think I'll finish that bottle of Viognier, have a sleep myself and think about it in the morning:-)

Goodnight and see you tomorrow.

:DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 01:57 PM

"Can we also agree that both sets of people are far from average though"

Not if they only contribute posts like the ones above yours, Dave

"Hope you rest well and awake refreshed:-)"

Perfect, thanks.

Ready for another shift....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 10:52 AM

Eeeeeh - That was easier than I thought. My pre-conception of getting tickets for a football match were standing in the rain with a load of average football supporters, getting cans thrown at me, being jostled and having to endure a jobsworth on the ticket desk. It was rather pleasant instead with a small queue of good natured men and women, some very funny banter between Bolton and Blackburn supporters and an extemely helpful clerk on the ticket desk. Just shows how wrong you can be if you believe everything you hear about football fans. Wonder how often that mistake is made elsewhere? ;-)

Anyhow...

Why not just leave it that the average earnings are a bit over £20,000?

Because it is a very misleading statement. It would lead anyone without inside knowledge to believe that most of the group have that ammount of money whereas in fact that is blatantly untrue. Like comparing most of the population with a minority of extremists is also a false assumption.

Can we just agree that there are some people in Britain that are anti-Irish? I am happy to accept that. It is certainly true. Just like it is also true that there are some people in Britain who are willing to blow up tube trains and buses. Can we also agree that both sets of people are far from average though?

Hope you rest well and awake refreshed:-)

Cheers

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 09:44 AM

And I will stay with 00th posts especially when they have some pertinence to the thread .


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 09:43 AM

Its nice to know that the American Right Wing v Liberal Bigotry is just as prevalent this side of the pond in the Loyalist/Republican bigotry !!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 09:17 AM

299 is the new 300.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:57 AM

"And then you'll get the sloppy labeller, who will slap anything on a tin, because he is either under the delusion he has the ability to guess the contents without a shake or thinks it's the easier option and requires no thought."

Dave & I have already discussed marketing, Guest.
You take to the idea like a fish to water, evidently.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:54 AM

... The arithmetic is sound, but using the economy is not a good example...
Why not just leave it that the average earnings are a bit over £20,000?

That (in relative terms) is all I'm trying to prove

Anyway, it's well past my bed-time

Worry, still of course, is still the major cause of statistics.

Have a good weekend


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:49 AM

And then you'll get the sloppy labeller, who will slap anything on a tin, because he is either under the delusion he has the ability to guess the contents without a shake or thinks it's the easier option and requires no thought.

You wouldn't buy your weekly shop from a sloppy labeller. He would hold no interest to you. A discussion is a transaction of minds.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:41 AM

Hehehe - You are cheering up a slow work day no end, TE:-) I'm off in a few minutes though so may not be able to catch up till later.

I did assume (remember the old makes an ASS of U and ME line?) that your average Brit is as anti Irish as at least your average Unionist did mean that the average Brit was anti Irish. If it did indeed mean that the Unionists are in fact as apathetic as rest of us Brits I apologise unreservedly. I don't think that was the original meaning though and still stick to my conviction that yer 'average Brit' (whatever that may be) is not anti Irish at all.

A further apology is in order if my thought process are at fault with the phrase about medians and averages as well. I will take you though it so you can tell me where I went wrong.

If there are extremes, there is a median
Medians are averages.


To this poor little Gnomes limited powers of reasoning this seems to mean that the extremes are to be counted in when agreeing what an average is. In this context the implication is that the majority view is tainted because more Brits bash the Irish than support them? To simplify down to simple arithmetic terms if, out of 100 people, 2 earn £1,000,000 pounds per year, one earns £100 per year (the extremes) and 97 earn £1000 a year then the average earnings are a bit over £20,000. Arithmeticaly sound but to base your economy on this would be a bit odd. Basing any average on extremes is flaky territory which is why we use weighted and normalised averages. Mind you, 94.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot anyway... ;-)

And perfectly legitimate when observing trends

Sounds like a justification to use this median/average when classifying the average Brit as being anti-Irish. If it isn't can you clarify just what it is you are trying to prove? Bit much for me I'm afraid!

Anyroads, as I said before, must be off. This here non-average non-football supporting Brit is off to try and buy tickets for the Bolton / Blackburn game so I can take an non-average football supporting American to the game on in a couple of weeks.

Don't ask...

Cheers

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:38 AM

Pray tell me, Man C, what is the difference between 'apathy' and 'disinterest'?

Labels tend to be applied after the contents are checked, and the envelope sealed


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 08:31 AM

If 'MAN A' expects civilised conversation/debate/input from 'MAN B'after they have been labelled, stereotyped and made assumptions of, they shouldn't misconstrue the lack of willingness of 'MAN B' to engage in the discourse as apathy.

It is more likely disinterest in comunicating with 'MAN A'. hemselves.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 07:40 AM

"(and the average Unionist is apathetic at the very least),"

That was not meant to be in italics....

:-(


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 07:37 AM

I don't say 'extremes produce the average', Dave.
As a statistician, you shouldn't either.

Remember that the other end of the 'Moslem/terrorist' scale is the Muslim/non-terrorist'.

Where do you get that they all are?

Surely that's just one extreme?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 07:34 AM

It is interesting, though; the folk tradition.
Normally it can take centuries for a song to drastically change.

You can turn the line: "your average Brit is as anti Irish as at least your average Unionist" (and the average Unionist is apathetic at the very least), Dave, to rebutt as: "I think this idea that most Brits hate the Irish is, nowadays, unfounded"

"Perception is the filter through which we view the world, and most of the time it's a handy thing to have"

Actually it's not!
In fact it's bloody dangerous most of the time...

'Facts' are reality. Marketing is geared towards people who have difficulty seeing facts, or who have difficulty in making up their minds for themselves.

;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 07:26 AM

BTW I know what you mean about medians and averages. I studied statistics as part of my Business Studies course many years ago. The only thing I can say is that if you lay all the statisticians in the world end to end they still wouldn't reach a sensible conclusion. Applying mathematical principles to human nature just doesn't make sense. If, as you say, the extremes produce the average then we can in all honesty prove that the average Moslem is a terrorist, the average Black is a rapist, the average Jew is greedy and the average Irishman is indeed as dense as the proverbial peat bog.

Sorry, but the exteme case should never be taken into account when dealing with something as complex as the human being.

Cheers

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 07:17 AM

Mmmmm - OK. I'll accept that the Irish bashing threads outweigh the Injustice threads. I can't be bothered counting them and am quite happy to accept your observations here. But I don't think that means the 'average Brit' agrees. Does it?

Lets put it another way. Your perception is that the British hate the Irish. Why is this? I am only guessing but would I be close if I was to say it is because all the Brits that have come to your attention have been bashing the Irish? What about all the ones that have neither bashed or supported? Surely it is the minority that do either. The vast majority, I suspect, are realy unconcerned either way. And this is not just the British. I am afraid it is simply human nature. Ok, Ok - You are going to argue that the voting populace should do something about it. Of course they should. They should also do something about world poverty. They should also do something about global pollution. And they should, of course, all do something about apathy...

I think this idea that most Brits hate the Irish is, nowadays, unfounded. Not saying that it has never been so. I am sure it has. I think now though the idea of hating anyone for their race, religion or beliefs is as abhorant to most 'average Brits' as it is to me.

Cheers

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 06:37 AM

Only if you don't recognise it, Dave, I would imagine.

'Rose-tinted glasses' is another term.

I've sort've gone through the threads here, and the Irish-bashing threads (contributed to by British mudcatters) heavily outweigh the Injustice to the Irish-bashing threads, as contributed to by British mudcatters.

If there are extremes, there is a median
Medians are averages.

And perfectly legitimate when observing trends


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 06:20 AM

I'm not defending anyone, Tír Eoghain (Sorry - can't do squiggly things:-( ). Just want to make the point that stereotyping doesn't help anyone. Just the opposite. The Jews were stereotyped in Nazi Germany. The Blacks were stereotyped in South Africa. The Irish are stereotyped by a certain type of British 'comedian' (and I use the term loosely!)

You do make a very interesting point indeed though when you say the Mudcat cafe is a micrososm of society. I can certainly agree to that. That now being agreed on we need to take a view on what the average mudcatter is. Demographicaly I guess the average 'catter is half male, half female? Half English, Half American with a smattering of Irish, Scottish and Welsh?A good lump of Antipodean and a smidgeon of the generic European?

If we now relate that back to my original point is it fair to say that the average Mudcatter doesn't give two f***s about double standards? I think not. I know your term was that the general (average) British contributor, doesn't give etc. but I see very little evidence of this. Again I am willing to be educated. Has anyone done a study to determine if one section of the 'cat cares more about standards than another? Too difficult for me I am afraid but bring on the facts and I am more than willing to listen.

I am honestly not defending anyone. Just wondering how the perception of the 'average' anything arises. Completely co-incidentaly I have started playing a silly on-line game - Jennifer Government. It's creator, Max Barry, has written a couple of books and while I was browsing though a bit of his work the other day I came across this...

The first principle of marketing (okay, it's not the first, but it doesn't sound nearly as cool to say it's the third) is this: perception is reality. You see, a long time ago, some academic came up with the idea that reality doesn't actually exist. Or at least, if it does, no one can agree what it is. Because of perception.

Perception is the filter through which we view the world, and most of the time it's a handy thing to have: it generalizes the world


Do we all occasionaly suffer from this syndrome? ;-)

Cheers

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: The Curator
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 05:47 AM

Loyalists have so many issues running through their ranks at the moment there is no way their weapons will be off the streets in the near future. There is an all out war to crush the LVF at present in Belfast,Lurgan and Portadown. The UVF are handling it, but the UDA are seeing their drug routes becoming the attention of the PSNI so they are now at odds with the UVF over it. This is going to get worse,no doubt about that, and within the UVF there is a leadership battle going on at present as well.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 05:08 AM

Tír Chonaill said it in H3 headings, Dave.

... and we have been through this before.

If the Mudcat Café is a microcosm of society (it's a cross-section of something anyway...), then the general (average) British contributor, doesn't give two f***s about the double standard.

He doesn't seem to give a whole heap more in letters he writes to the editors of National newspapers, good old average British reader doesn't.

And not once have I heard him/her stand up in the Commons and relay the concerns of his/her constituents..., the indominitable average British voter.

You don't seem to be 'average', Dave.

You have no need to try and defend them


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 04:56 AM

that your average Brit is as anti Irish as at least your average Unionist.

The average Brit has an almost morbid fascination with wallowing in the double standard


I have never seen any evidence of this. I am however willing to be educated. I suspect that the above statement is a knee jerk reation and for that, Tiocfaidh, I don't blame you at all. I occasionaly see the crap printed in the press and the bias shown on the news and shake my head in wonder at who believes it. I occasionaly have bouts of serious depression when I see the idiots spouting their anti [enter your own race/religion] hate on my TV screen.

Before I tar everyone else with the same brush though I stop to think about all the people I know. The sensitive and tolerant. The helpful and patient. The thoughtful and intelligent. And I realise that the idiots only make the news because they are in the minority. They are the unusual. They are NOT the average Brit.

Saying the average [anyone] is such and such is stereotyping. You may as well say the average Moslem is a terrorist. The average Jew is greedy. The average black is a rapist. Or the average Irishman is thick! I don't think anyone in their right mind feels that these statements would be acceptable nowadays. They are simply untrue.

If you can show me evidence that the 'average Brit' has any particular trait I am more than willing to stand corrected. If you can tell me what an 'average Brit' is I will be happy to perform the survey myself! If you change your sweeping statement to the 'average British politician' I may, just may, be tempted to agree.

Until then I will feel very uncomfortable that you consider me, my family and all my friends to be enemies.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 02:59 AM

Sinn Féin calls for Unionist Parties to use their influence....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 04:15 PM

"... PSNI's credibility currently in greatest danger of imploding."

I am

AMAZED at the apathy shown on this board by so-called 'average English people'
... I exclude, here, all those whodid actually mail their MP... It would seem that those who would like to think of themselves as 'average' are, in fact, quite singular.

Do I need to point out the double-standard again, for the rest of you?

You wouldn't put up with this in your own country.

.... nor Iraq, for that matter.

Hypocrites, the lot of you....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 09:37 PM

What isn't in the news these days


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 06:32 PM

What are ye?

You're a feckin' eejit!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 06:31 PM

Watercolours are relaxing, eh?

Well all I can say that it is very well for those Guests, who on one hand can invite us to get a good grip of our ankles for some odd reason, and who on the other hand advocate against doing precisely that.

By your postings you prove yourself to be one of the ruminants Tiocfaidh has described your type as being.

Your country is falling down around your ears, but you don't notice, because your ears happen to be attached to the side of your head.

... which in its turn is buried up your arse.

I love idiots like you who avoid the issue, even with blank Guest posting status.
You show your bigotry well
... without actually realising you're exuding it, yourselves.

Riddle me this, tho...
Why does a red cow give white milk, when it only eats green grass?
... feckin' eejit


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 02:18 PM

Tiocfaidh and ard,

Thank-you.

E


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 01:55 PM

Watercolours are relaxing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 12:25 PM

Typical reply of a person who has its' head buried up its' arse.

... has to be a reader of 'The Sun'...

My hobby is to try and get people like you to abandon their double standards and to call for that 'Justice' that you seem to be very proud of.

Mail early and mail often, Guest.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 12:23 PM

I see they are still executing people in England, Guest be thankful you are not an innocent boy from Brazil.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 12:18 PM

Get a good grip on your ankles and try and pull yourself out of the past. You seem in dire need of a new hobby.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 11:47 AM

Your average pillar of British Law Enforcement in the North was, however.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 11:42 AM

Thankfully none of us are


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 11:38 AM

Thankfully your 'average' Irishman isn't a murdering thug.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 11:23 AM

It's because nobody really gives a damn, ard mhacha.
... as we all know.

I have said it before, and I'll say it again, that your average Brit is as anti Irish as at least your average Unionist.

Let us all consider, however, Governments and Assemblies formed in other political hotspots, a bit further away from our own back yard and see how they sell their processes to their General Public.
Guns, folks, are never really part of the equation.

Are they?

The average Brit has an almost morbid fascination with wallowing in the double standard.
Probably more so than your average right-wing oppressive regime anywhere else that you could mention.
At least there's no such thing as your average American anymore, but at least they all have a tendency to call a spade a spade, every once in a while.

Anti-Irish, and double standards.
A heady mix, even in the most trying of circumstances.

The media serve up rose-tinted column inches to people who just want to be re-assured that they're still the best at everything, and that they have it all sussed.

No need for sunglasses.

Prescription lenses will be provided
(Ian Paisley) sic


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 07:22 AM

I don`t see this news getting any prominence on the BBC main news, had this been the IRA involved in murder and secterian bombing of Protestant Churches and homes it would have been another McCartney sisters bash.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 11:23 AM

Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 18 January 4:41 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.