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BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.

The Curator 19 May 05 - 11:00 AM
Wolfgang 19 May 05 - 05:16 PM
Wolfgang 19 May 05 - 05:34 PM
Sorcha 19 May 05 - 05:51 PM
Rustic Rebel 19 May 05 - 08:34 PM
mindblaster 20 May 05 - 05:21 AM
Raptor 20 May 05 - 07:29 AM
The Curator 20 May 05 - 03:02 PM
mindblaster 21 May 05 - 01:41 AM
dianavan 21 May 05 - 01:54 AM
The Curator 21 May 05 - 03:51 AM
mindblaster 21 May 05 - 07:09 PM
kendall 21 May 05 - 08:00 PM
Bobert 21 May 05 - 09:16 PM
GUEST,Kendall 22 May 05 - 07:48 AM
GUEST,freda 22 May 05 - 09:29 AM
Raptor 23 May 05 - 12:30 PM
The Curator 17 Jun 05 - 09:02 AM
Wolfgang 17 Jun 05 - 03:52 PM
The Curator 17 Jun 05 - 04:00 PM
Wolfgang 17 Jun 05 - 04:11 PM
The Curator 17 Jun 05 - 04:14 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Jun 05 - 08:40 PM

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Subject: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: The Curator
Date: 19 May 05 - 11:00 AM

I have just finished a book by Cal Deal, THE TRUTH ABOUT RUBIN HURRICANE CARTER. I have never read such a racist bigoted bias load of crap in my life. Having also read Rubin Carter's own book THE 16TH ROUND and James Hirsch's book THE MIRACULOUS TRANSFORMATION, what is it with this creep Deal? I would like to read the views of any of you that has read this book. I am of the viewpoint that Carter and Artis were innocent men who lost their freedom because of the hate one man (Vince De simone)held towards Carter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 May 05 - 05:16 PM

Sorry, I can't offer any personal opinion since I have not read any of the three books you mention. I even didn't know the man and his case until your thread made me curious and I read some bits on the web (from both sides).

I have just two comments: First, I'd put a bit less trust in an autobiography and an 'authorised' biography for judging the truth (If I was guilty I'd write the very same autobiography as if I was not guilty). Second, Cal Deal seems not the only voice doubting that the man was innocent: The Hurricane Hoax is one instance.

But I'm really curious now and am supporting Curator's invitation: I'd like to read opinions from Mudcatters who have followed the case whether they have read the books or not and whether they have 'gut feelings' or arguments.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 May 05 - 05:34 PM

Sorry, I can't offer any personal opinion since I have not read any of the three books you mention. I even didn't know the man and his case until your thread made me curious and I read some bits on the web (from both sides).

I have just two comments: First, I'd put a bit less trust in an autobiography and an 'authorised' biography for judging the truth (If I was guilty I'd write the very same autobiography as if I was not guilty). Second, Cal Deal seems not the only voice doubting that the man was innocent: The Hurricane Hoax is one instance.

But I'm really curious now and am supporting Curator's invitation: I'd like to read opinions from Mudcatters who have followed the case whether they have read the books or not and whether they have 'gut feelings' or arguments.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 May 05 - 05:51 PM

And, I have NO idea who you are talking about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 19 May 05 - 08:34 PM

Hurricane by Bob Dylan and Jacques Levy


Pistol shots ring out in the barroom night
Enter Patty Valentine from the upper hall.
She sees the bartender in a pool of blood,
Cries out, "My God, they killed them all!"
Here comes the story of the Hurricane,
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.

Three bodies lyin' there does Patty see
And another man named Bello, movin' around mysteriously.
"I didn't do it," he says, and he throws up his hands
"I was only robbin' the register, I hope you understand.
I saw them leavin'," he says, and he stops
"One of us had better call up the cops."
And so Patty calls the cops
And they arrive on the scene with their red lights flashin'
In the hot New Jersey night.

Meanwhile, far away in another part of town
Rubin Carter and a couple of friends are drivin' around.
Number one contender for the middleweight crown
Had no idea what kinda shit was about to go down
When a cop pulled him over to the side of the road
Just like the time before and the time before that.
In Paterson that's just the way things go.
If you're black you might as well not show up on the street
'Less you wanna draw the heat.

Alfred Bello had a partner and he had a rap for the cops.
Him and Arthur Dexter Bradley were just out prowlin' around
He said, "I saw two men runnin' out, they looked like middleweights
They jumped into a white car with out-of-state plates."
And Miss Patty Valentine just nodded her head.
Cop said, "Wait a minute, boys, this one's not dead"
So they took him to the infirmary
And though this man could hardly see
They told him that he could identify the guilty men.

Four in the mornin' and they haul Rubin in,
Take him to the hospital and they bring him upstairs.
The wounded man looks up through his one dyin' eye
Says, "Wha'd you bring him in here for? He ain't the guy!"
Yes, here's the story of the Hurricane,
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.

Four months later, the ghettos are in flame,
Rubin's in South America, fightin' for his name
While Arthur Dexter Bradley's still in the robbery game
And the cops are puttin' the screws to him, lookin' for somebody to blame.
"Remember that murder that happened in a bar?"
"Remember you said you saw the getaway car?"
"You think you'd like to play ball with the law?"
"Think it might-a been that fighter that you saw runnin' that night?"
"Don't forget that you are white."

Arthur Dexter Bradley said, "I'm really not sure."
Cops said, "A poor boy like you could use a break
We got you for the motel job and we're talkin' to your friend Bello
Now you don't wanta have to go back to jail, be a nice fellow.
You'll be doin' society a favor.
That sonofabitch is brave and gettin' braver.
We want to put his ass in stir
We want to pin this triple murder on him
He ain't no Gentleman Jim."

Rubin could take a man out with just one punch
But he never did like to talk about it all that much.
It's my work, he'd say, and I do it for pay
And when it's over I'd just as soon go on my way
Up to some paradise
Where the trout streams flow and the air is nice
And ride a horse along a trail.
But then they took him to the jailhouse
Where they try to turn a man into a mouse.

All of Rubin's cards were marked in advance
The trial was a pig-circus, he never had a chance.
The judge made Rubin's witnesses drunkards from the slums
To the white folks who watched he was a revolutionary bum
And to the black folks he was just a crazy nigger.
No one doubted that he pulled the trigger.
And though they could not produce the gun,
The D.A. said he was the one who did the deed
And the all-white jury agreed.

Rubin Carter was falsely tried.
The crime was murder "one," guess who testified?
Bello and Bradley and they both baldly lied
And the newspapers, they all went along for the ride.
How can the life of such a man
Be in the palm of some fool's hand?
To see him obviously framed
Couldn't help but make me feel ashamed to live in a land
Where justice is a game.

Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties
Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise
While Rubin sits like Buddha in a ten-foot cell
An innocent man in a living hell.
That's the story of the Hurricane,
But it won't be over till they clear his name
And give him back the time he's done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: mindblaster
Date: 20 May 05 - 05:21 AM

Dylan is nowadays embarrassed by that song - when clearly Carter was guilty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: Raptor
Date: 20 May 05 - 07:29 AM

Carter was innocent! Another book to read is "Laseras and the Hurricane". The story about the Canadians who got him free!

P.M. me if you can't find a copy!

Raptor


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: The Curator
Date: 20 May 05 - 03:02 PM

mindblaster, Why do you think he was guilty ? when did Dylan state he was embarrassed about the song ? Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: mindblaster
Date: 21 May 05 - 01:41 AM

Why was he innocent - because he was black? A court of law found him guilty - ask his victims families.

The scum should have been hung!


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: dianavan
Date: 21 May 05 - 01:54 AM

Whenever MG logs out, mindblaster logs in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: The Curator
Date: 21 May 05 - 03:51 AM

Right got you mindblaster, this was an american court who found him guilty, what more needs said. You still didn't answer my questions, maybe because you can't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: mindblaster
Date: 21 May 05 - 07:09 PM

Dylan told me on saturday. Carter confided with me when we were sharing a cell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: kendall
Date: 21 May 05 - 08:00 PM

A good argument against the death penalty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: Bobert
Date: 21 May 05 - 09:16 PM

Well, let me tell ya about a book I once found down in Richmond, Va. in the basement of the Main Street train station... It was a book that listed all the mishaps on the rail lines in and around Richmond in 1937 and 1938.... Oh, BTW, I still posessthe book... It is the original journal that the railroad kept and is writtin' by hand... It talks about folks fallin' from trains and breakin' ankles... It talks about workers busting fingers 'n cars comin' off tracks...

But it also has several entries that read somethin' along the lines of "Male negro, approximately 25 years of age, run over by train 6 miles norht of Hanover courthouse".... There are several of similar enties....

Like when I was readin thru this I was thinkin' to myself, "Hmmmmm, self, like why all these younf black men wants be layin' down in front of the train???"

Well, same crap been going down ever since 1937 with a disporportionate number of black man been singled out for lynchin's, shootin's, having their heads blowed apart in electric chairs, 'er whatever....

Rubin Carter is jus' 'uther nigga.... Hey, them boyz is all bad...

No, what is bad is the racism that runs rampant thru America... It is disgusting and it is being practiced bu white folks who hide behind their supoosed Christain faith...

Disgusting....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 22 May 05 - 07:48 AM

Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than going to a garage makes you a car.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 22 May 05 - 09:29 AM

wikipedia on Rubin Carter


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: Raptor
Date: 23 May 05 - 12:30 PM

I think the point here is Don't believe everything you read!

That link leaves out a bunch of facts as well!

I think the next point here is the whomever blasted Mindblasters mind did a bang up job!

Raptor


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: The Curator
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 09:02 AM

If he had of been white like Michael Jackson we would have got off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 03:52 PM

How does OJ Simpson fit into this theory?

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: The Curator
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:00 PM

It's a joke Wolfgang, Michael Jackson isn't a natural white.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:11 PM

A joke, that's OK and fine. I wasn't sure. You might have alluded seriously to the perceived 'whiteness' as a factor.

I made just the opposite error once. When Colin Powell was named 'black' I first thought it was meant as a joke. Until I has a very close look.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: The Curator
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:14 PM

I understand Wolfgang, it's not as clear as black and white, that's another joke by the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rubin Hurricane Carter. An innocent man.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 08:40 PM

As I understand it, whether you are "black" or "white" in the USA isn't necessarily determined by actual skin colour.

Mind because of the different TV system they use out there, often enough people come out the most peculiar colours on my TV screen on the news broadcasts. "White" often comes out as a sort of greenish, a bit like the Hulk.


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Mudcat time: 13 May 5:14 AM EDT

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