Origins: URGENT- New York, New York

Subject: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Fay
Date: 19 May 05 - 05:01 PM

Hallo,

I need to know some details for this track for my dissertation (to be handed in tommorrow) nothing like last minute. Can anyone help with a recording artist, label, year of publishing etc? Any amount of info would be good then I can search for the rest - I just can't think of who done it, mind gone a blank!

Start spreading the news...

Ta Fay xx

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Fay
Date: 19 May 05 - 05:04 PM

also need page refferences for

Gammon, Vic, '100 years of the Folk Song Society' in Ian Russell & David Atkinson (eds.), Folk Song: Tradition, Revival and Re-Creation (Aberdeen: The Elphinstone Institute, University of Aberdeen, 2004), ???-???.

If anyone can help there too! I borrowed the book but returned it without getting these oh so vital bits of info.

oops

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Fay
Date: 19 May 05 - 05:06 PM

oh and this one as well, same book

Atkinson, David, 'Revival: Genuine or Spurious?' in Ian Russell & David Atkinson (eds.), Folk Song: Tradition, Revival and Re-Creation (Aberdeen: The Elphinstone Institute, University of Aberdeen, 2004), 144-???.

xx

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 May 05 - 06:19 PM

Call the library where your library borrowed the Folk Song: Tradition, Revival and Re-Creation from via ILL. I know that at the university research library where I work librarians have taken the time to look up these citations for desperate defenders of dissertations. Perhaps you'll get lucky and find a generous librarian.

Are you in the US or the UK?

SRS

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Fay
Date: 19 May 05 - 06:28 PM

I'm from the UK, getting to the point where i'm tempted to make them up but unfortunatly one of the markers is likely to be Vic Gammon (one of the authors), and it would be realy not good for him to notice!

No idea who sang or wrote 'New York, New York' have you?

Fay

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 May 05 - 06:47 PM

Frank Sinatra sang it. Liza Minelli sang it. Loads of people sang it.

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 May 05 - 06:49 PM

Follow this link: http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/patc/newyorknewyork/. The information is probably better than you even hoped for at this late date. National Public Radio (NPR) in the U.S. is an authoritative source. They do good research.

SRS

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Fay
Date: 19 May 05 - 07:01 PM

Thanks very much, got it. It's not a huge part of the paper, but I needed to give the reference. I've drawn the line under interesting extra bits now. Just down to the oh so exciting formatting stage.

Thanks for your help, Fay.


Still looking for the Folk Song: Tradition, Revival and Re-Creation page references if anyone's sitting up late with nothing better to doand a copy of the book handy!

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 May 05 - 07:19 PM

This comes up on libraries in Europe that own the book:

EU BRITISH LIBR BRI   
EU BRITISH LIBR UKM   
EU EAST SURREY COMMUNITY SRVS UKESR   
EU GLASGOW UNIV LIBR QCL   


If you can make heads or tails of it, maybe you can find a copy near you?

In Glasgow, they have two copies of the book and they're not checked out:

LOCATION CALL NO. STATUS
Level 4 Main Lib   Music F47 RUS       IN LIBRARY
Crichton Campus   Music F47 RUS       IN LIBRARY

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Fay
Date: 19 May 05 - 07:36 PM

Ta, you should be getting marks for this project!

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 May 05 - 01:11 AM

I wrote a thesis a few years ago myself--I remember how difficult it was to keep track of all of those citations, even when I thought I was getting every last one. And I've heard the librarians tell stories of helping out harried grad students. What goes around comes around!

SRS

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 May 05 - 01:15 AM

There's a trick here - Betty Comden and Adolph Green (words) and Leonard Bernstein (music) wrote a song called "New York, New York" for the musical On the Town, 1944. Sinatra, Gene Kelly, and somebody else sang that song in the movie.

"(Theme From) New York, New York" was written by Fred Ebb (words) and John Kander (some sources say Jon Kander, but BMI says John) (Music) for the 1977 film titled, you guessed it - New York, New York. Liza Minelli starred in the film. Minelli performed the song at Carnegie Hall and most probably did a studio recording, but allmusic.com says Ralph Burns sang all songs in the movie, and that just can't be - anybody know for sure?? Song copyright is 1977, United Artists Corporation.

Frank Sinatra recorded "Theme from New York, New York" on the Reprise label September 19, 1979.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 May 05 - 01:29 AM

Joe,

If you haven't learned about the Internet Movie Database by now you have a treat in store for you. It's the best place for all of this triva to come to light.

The first song you mentioned is the one with the line about "The Bronx is up and the Battery's down." That's in the movie On the Town (1949) and that third male lead is Jules Munshin. Perhaps your date of 1944 refers to a Broadway version of the musical?

SRS

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 May 05 - 01:47 AM

Ah, Jules Munshin, I should have remembered him - I was just too lazy to look it up, since that isn't the song in question. Great movie, though. The Broadway show On the Town opened December 28, 1944, and ran for 463 performances. It was based on Bernstein's ballet Fancy Free (no "Fancy Free" music was used, however). The show was the first of many for lyricists Comden and Green, who had been nightclub entertainers.

The movie is one of my favorite musicals, and even my 15-yr-old stepson loves it (well, he loves musicals in general, but especially this one). Maybe it's Ann Miller's legs that keep him so interested.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 May 05 - 10:36 AM

Ann Miller's legs, along with Vera Ellen's, were in top form in that film.

I haven't done any side by side comparisons, but the song that Gene Kelly sings with Vera Ellen about their home town seems to be what Tom Lehrer was parodying in his song "My Home Town."

SRS

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 May 05 - 12:15 PM

This thread is a great example of why it's OK to ask the forum for help rather than just look it up yourself. As so often happens, the serendipitous tangents and conversations are more interesting than the original question!

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Cool Beans
Date: 21 May 05 - 12:11 PM

Sounds like Joe has discovered the Internet Broadway Database...wwww.ibdb.com which is to Broadway shows what the Internet Movie Databse is to movies. I love 'em both.

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 May 05 - 01:21 PM

14-27 and 144-162 respectively.

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 May 05 - 03:48 PM

No, I didn't know about the Internet Broadway Database, but it looks like a great resource. I get most of my information from books. I've been having a bit of a problem lately, because I don't know where to store all the books I have, and sometimes I don't even know where to find them....

I guess that's why they invented online databases - because there just isn't enough room for all the books.

-Joe Offer-

P.S. I am in the midst of negotiations with the Rest of the Household to replace the "entertainement center" with a Really Big Bookcase...

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: Cool Beans
Date: 21 May 05 - 05:47 PM

Books? What is this thing you call books?

Subject: RE: Origins: URGENT- New York, New York
From: GUEST,sandra in sydney
Date: 22 May 05 - 08:59 AM

Joe

Good luck with your negotiations - a Really Big Bookcase is the best kind of "entertainment center"

sandra