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Subject: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Date: 16 Dec 98 - 04:14 AM Anyone have the words to this '50s or '60s Scots Nationalist song? Alex Campbell used to sing it and recorded it way back. It starts: Oh, Scotland hasnae got a king |
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Subject: Lyr Add: CORONATION CORONACH From: Murray on Saltspring Date: 17 Dec 98 - 04:55 PM The words are in a fly-by-night wee book called "The Rebels' Ceilidh Song Book", no date, but around 53 maybe, called "Coronation Coronach", words by Thurso Berwick, tune "The Sash My Father Wore", that old Orange chestnut.Three verses + chorus. In the RCSB no. 2, which has a date (1963), there's a slightly longer version, thus:
O, Scotland hesna got a King, |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Alex Date: 18 Dec 98 - 12:31 AM Thanks for the words - I gotta go look for my old Rebel Ceilidh songbook(s) - to my recollection there were two of them? The first time I saw a folk musician play live it was Alex Campbell. I still have the LP. The second live show I saw was Archie Fisher and I've been hooked ever since. |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Steve Parkes Date: 18 Dec 98 - 03:31 AM Thanks, Murray. The only people I know (used to know - i can't get in touch with them now) learned it from Alex Campbell. I've actually got it on one of Alex's records, but I can't make out all the words! Steve |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Ewan McV Date: 19 Dec 98 - 06:52 AM There were many editions of the Rebel Ceilidh Songbook, the last one about 1967, and each time the editor and begetter Morris Blythman, who wrote under the pseudonym Thurso Berwick, put in new songs. He got people to write new songs for each issue. I was given a full set of RCSs by Morris's widow. Morris taught me at school in Glasgow, and began my interest in Scots song. The song was on an early 60s Folkways album called Ding Dong Dollar. Hamish Imlach recorded it early on, I think. And the other week I met in West Lothian, the man who drew the original cover - as Murray says about 1953. Initially the book was a product of the Bo'ness Rebels pro-independence group. |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: skw@ Date: 22 Dec 98 - 01:55 PM Ewan, may I pick your brains? A few years back I bought an album called 'Scottish Republican Songs', a reissue of 'Ding Dong Dollar'. Unfortunately - or rather, in keeping with their belief in collective creation (or whatever you call it), the singers stayed anonymous. Quite apart from the irksome question marks this makes for in my database, I have a video of the 'Glasgow Eskimo' show Gordon McCulloch wrote for the 1994 Glasgow Folk Festival, where quite a few of the old stalwarts (both singers & songs) took part, and I'd like to do some comparisons. I know it's a fairly long list but, please, would you help? - Thanks, Susanne (skw@worldmusic.de)
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Murray on Saltspring Date: 25 Dec 98 - 02:13 AM I believe that two of the guilty parties were Enoch Kent (now I think safely teaching in Canada, or probably retired by this time) and Josh McCrae. Maybe the School of Scottish Studies in Edinburgh will help you?? Bliadhna mhath ur Murray |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,Jim McLean Date: 23 Jul 02 - 09:59 AM Re the LP Ding Dong Dollar. This was recorded in Morris Blythman's house in Rouken Glen and apid for by Pete seeger who managed to get it released via Folkways. I wrote some of the songs on the album and collaberated with Morris and John Mack Smith on others. If any one wants any details just email me as I know all (and have) the lyrics from the album. I know who sang what and when. Cheers, Jim McLean |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,Nick Date: 23 Jul 02 - 11:47 AM Jim...are you THEJim McLean who wrote "Glencoe" and dozens of other great songs? I hope so. Concerning your offer...I've been trying tack down the same info as Suzanne...who are the performers on the Ding-Dong Dollar album. I have a copy of both the orginal and the re-issue "Scottish Republican Songs", but no credits on either. There's a man on the "Ding Dong" cover that looks like Hamish Imlach. In addition, I have another album, by Nigel Denver, also titled "Scottish Republican Songs", with the songs written by Jim McLean...is it you? Nick www.theballadeers.com |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Susanne (skw) Date: 23 Jul 02 - 05:58 PM I think I once heard Hamish say that he'd sung on the Ding Dong Dollar recordings, but his were all songs critical of the US and so were edited out when Kennedy was shot not long after. (This is entirely from memory so may be inaccurate!) |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Jim McLean Date: 24 Jul 02 - 06:34 AM Yes Nick, I wrote the Scottish republican Album for Nigel. I am also on the cover of DIN DON DOllar as is Nigel Denver, Morris Blythman and Josh MacRae. Hamish is also shown as an 'onlooker' but he didn't sing on the LP. Cheers, Jim McLean |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Jim McLean Date: 24 Jul 02 - 06:46 AM The album Ding Dong Dollar was recorded in Morris Blythman's house around 1960. The singers, if I can remember, were: Jack O'Conner, Nigel Denver, Josh MacRae, Morris Blythman and various people in the choruses. Alastair McDonald played various instruments. Luckily for some, I'm not a singer but I wrote We dinnae want polaris, NAB for Royalty, They say we've never had it sae guid and wrote verses for Ding Dong Dollar, Camp in the Country and the Glesga Eskimos. Anti-Polaris was written by Hamish Henderson and sung by Josh MacRae. If you require more specific info let me know. Cheers, Jim Mclean |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,Nick Date: 24 Jul 02 - 08:35 AM Thanks Jim, I'm glad it's you. This is this the first real information I've ever gotten on this recording. What ever happened to Nigel Denver, is his still alive, performing? Nick |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Jim McLean Date: 24 Jul 02 - 09:15 AM Hi Nick, Nigel is in Birmingham and still doing his bit. Ocasionally he pops down here to London on a visit and quite often he visits Ronnie Drew in Ireland. We had a boozy 4 days in Germany last July! Cheers, Jim |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,Alison Kent-Korell Date: 13 Sep 02 - 05:23 PM Enoch Kent has not retired. He just released a wonderful collection of songs on a CD entitled, "I'm a workin' chap." He has even gone electronic and the info on this CD is available at www.enochkent.ca
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim Date: 14 Sep 02 - 03:13 AM Enoch Kent was on the Archie Fisher bbc radio prog just a couple of weeks ago. He was here, maybe still is, for the Edinburgh Festival. Jim: can you remember what Irish rebel songs Josh MacRae recorded? I used to have them but lost them years ago. Erin Go Bragh, Bold Fenian Men? |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Jim McLean Date: 14 Sep 02 - 05:05 AM Big Tim: Josh, Hamish Imlach and Bobby Campbell recorded a few EPs as a group called 'The Exiles' I think but I'll have to put on my memory cap for the titles. I'll get back to you. Jim Mclean |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: belfast Date: 14 Sep 02 - 05:45 AM Concerning the Exiles. I seem to recall one of their LP's being called "Freedom Come-All-Ye". Well, at least it had a wonderful version of that song. |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,Nick Date: 14 Sep 02 - 08:51 AM The two "Exiles" albums I have are the above mentioned "Freedom Come-All-Ye" and "The Hale and the Hanged" and the line up on both is Enoch Kent, Bobby Campbell and Gordon McCulloch. The group Enoch Kent was in with Josh Macrae was "The Reivers". Nick |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim Date: 14 Sep 02 - 10:15 AM Who were the Emmetones then? I seem to recall that Ewan McVicar dealt with this one last year but I can't find it. I also seem to recall that Josh made a few singles, in his own name, of Irish rebel titles and I'm sure Bold Fenian Men ("see who comes over the red blossomed heather...") was one of them, but you know I could be wrong! I remember being at a concert in the old Glasgow Concert Hall when "Scottish Breakaway" was sung and my father, a Donegal man, got up and walked out: he didn't like the tune! |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Big Tim Date: 14 Sep 02 - 10:25 AM Can I also ask: anyone know what Tom Hickland (ex-Five Hand Reel) is doing these days? He wrote the music for "The Man From God Knows Where" and I'd like to ask him a few questions about that. |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Jim McLean Date: 14 Sep 02 - 11:20 AM Hi Big Tim, Yes the group was called the Emmetones (I can't remember the correct spelling, Bobby Campbell, Hamish Imlach and Josh.I think they recorded Johnson's Motor car, Boulovouge, Bold Fenian Men and one other. It was an EP which I also have lost!! Morris Blythman, who wrote the Breakaway, thought that he could unite Scotland by using 'Orange' tunes to republican sentiments, hence the reason your father walked out as I don't think that strategy worked! The Reivers was a group helped along by the late Mp Norman Buchan who managed to get them on the telly (late 50s?)and the girl in the group was called ...something Swan? her sister married Jimmy Reid of Upper Clydside fame. I'll remember more later. Cheers, Jim Mclean |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Jim McLean Date: 14 Sep 02 - 12:08 PM PS I'm sure the only solo recording Josh made was an LP just called Josh MacRae for Transatlantic Records in 1966. My wife did the sleeve picture.(I'm excluding Messing About on the RiverCheers, Jim Mclean |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Big Tim Date: 14 Sep 02 - 04:17 PM Thanks Jim: my nephew scored a last minute equaliser for Killie today so we're busy celebrating that at the moment! |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,Nick Date: 14 Sep 02 - 04:44 PM Ah, yes...the Emmetones...that's the name I was trying to remember. I have a Josh MacRae EP, the Transatlantic and a re-issue of the "Messing About On the River" albums. If anyone is aware of other Josh MacRae recordings please post them here (exclduing the above mentioned), as I'm trying to collect them and can find very little info on Josh MacRae. There is also an album called "Tonight In The Attic" with Josh, Danny Kyle and Matt McGinn, which I don't have. And, as Jim mentioned on another post, Josh performs on the "Ding Dong Dollar" album. Nick |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Jim McLean Date: 14 Sep 02 - 05:44 PM I almost forgot, Josh made a single on PYE in 1965. 'Baron James McPhait' and 'The Wee Ferry'. They were publishe by Cliff Stanton, the man who also recorded the Transatlantic LP. Cliff was a character, he was a Londoner who had a shop beside the Barras in Glasgow. One window was devoted to Ranger's records and the other to Celtic's! At his funeral Josh slipped and fell into the open grave as he tried to fling in some earth! Cheers, Jim Mclean |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Jim McLean Date: 14 Sep 02 - 05:50 PM Another PS! I've just found another EP on PYE by Josh, made in 1960. It's called Walkin' Talkin' Singin' and has on one side: Talking Dustbowl Blues (Guthrie) and Old Blue(arranged Burl Ives). On the other side: Arkansas Rambler (trad arr. Stanton) and Rocky Mountain Belle (Trad arr. Elliot). Cheers, Jim Mclean |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,Stuart Christie Date: 11 Nov 02 - 07:08 PM Can anyone tell me when exactly Josh died and if his brother, Stuart, is still around? Thanks, Stuart Christie |
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Subject: RE: Words please: Scottish Breakaway From: Jim McLean Date: 12 Nov 02 - 05:24 AM Josh died in 1977. I didn't know his brother Stuart. Jim McLean |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: weerover Date: 12 Nov 02 - 09:47 AM Big Tim, I was going to ask you by e-mail after you sent me some info recently, but maybe others can help. I have heard the words to "The Man From God Knows Where" recited but didn't realise there was a tune. Anyone got it (preferably abc)? wr |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,Moleskin Joe Date: 13 Nov 02 - 04:06 AM Rena Swankie was the girl singer in the Reivers. Josh Macrae made quite a few singles in the late fifties and early sixties many of which were compiled on the LP Messing About on the River. Cliff Stanton's record shop was the only place in Glasgow where you could get the more esoteric American blues and jazz records in the late fities and early sixties. He always used to chase us because he knew we would spend ages poring over the records but were totally unable to afford them. Good Luck. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: Teribus Date: 13 Nov 02 - 10:12 AM Hi Jim, Didn't Josh Macrae also release a single with "Talkin Army Blues" on one side and "Talking Guitar Blues" on the other? Used to have it years ago and I am sure that it was by Josh. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: Jim McLean Date: 13 Nov 02 - 12:02 PM Hi Teribus, Yes, Ewan McVicar wrote The Talkin' Army Blues as the B side to a single released by Josh. The A side was to be a cover version of Lonnie Donegan's Talkin' Guitar Blues. As it happened, Ewan's song became the A side! Jim McLean |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,John Amsden - Melbourne Australia Date: 12 Jul 03 - 02:06 AM Does anyone have the words to Talkin Army Blues released by Josh McCrae ?? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: andymac Date: 12 Jul 03 - 09:02 AM Sorry for the plug, but to all who might be interested, Enoch Kent is playing at the Star Club in Glasgow on the 24th July, all the way from Sunny Canada. He appeared at the club last year, did a floor spot that blew the main guest away and aranged to come back for a full gig this year. His "I'm a workin' chap" album is superb. for more details. hope no-one minds the ad.... |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: akenaton Date: 12 Jul 03 - 08:27 PM Just looked out the two albums referred to by Jim...To-night at the Attic...Which was a club in Paisley. Josh sings Last thing on my mind......Yuri Gargarin...Saccos lost letter....and Freedom come all ye. Also on the album areMatt Maginn...Danny Kyle and Davy Spiers Josh Mcrae TRA150 1966...Mostly America songs.. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: Susanne (skw) Date: 13 Jul 03 - 12:40 AM Has anyone got a date for 'To-nightat the Attic'? The company neglected to put it anywhere on the album,and Danny Kyle couldn't remember the exact year when I asked him some years ago.It must have been around 1966, though. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: akenaton Date: 18 Jul 03 - 01:26 PM Sad person that i am,I always used to date my folk albums when i bought them,along with my name and address.Unfortunatly "Attic" seems to have slipped though my net,asi havnt signed or dated it. However it was one of the first folk records I bought,after a riotous night in Dunoon with Matt and Danny so i would think 63 or 64. Its still a great record to listen too.Brings back the spirit and optimism of that time...Unforunatly it didnt turn out the way we would have liked.Allmy friends who sang so bravely are dead and optimism turned to cynicism.. Hope i havnt depressed you too much Susanne.. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: Big Tim Date: 18 Jul 03 - 03:12 PM "A riotous night in Dunoon": surely not, this is a very sedate and respectable wee place, as the novels and short stories of our resident Robin Jenkins clearly testify. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: akenaton Date: 18 Jul 03 - 04:01 PM I see from your message Tim that your a Dunoon man,but its worrying to think that theres another computer in the Dunoon area...There goes my privacy.. I agree about Robin Jenkins Iv read a couple of his books and really enjoyed them I wonder if your old enough to remember the flourishing folk scene in dunoon....Halcyon days...All the best Ake |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: Big Tim Date: 19 Jul 03 - 05:02 AM The halcyon days, yes I was there: in Glasgow tho, not Dunoon: I'm a recent "blown-in" to these parts ( I used to come down and run, not very quickly, in the Cowal Games, and "fell in love" with the area). I'm out the Bullwood Road, computer and all. Robin Jenkins is amazing: try "David and Sheila" (or is it "Sheila and David"), an amazingly brilliant,perceptive, gripping, scary, book by any standards. It gets right inside society and the human nind. By a man aged 92- quite astounding. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: GUEST,Johnny Boy Date: 12 Mar 04 - 02:33 PM Another verse (and my favorite) goes: Her husband is the Duke of Edinboro He's one of yon kilted Greeks [The wind can blow his]? plaidie away For it's Lizzie wears the breeks |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway From: Jim McLean Date: 12 Mar 04 - 02:41 PM The correct lyric is: Her man's cried the Duke o'Edinburgh, He's wan o' the kiltie Greeks, 'Oh dinna blaw ma kilts awa' 'Cos Lizzie wears the breeks'. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway / Coronation Coron From: GUEST Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:09 AM As relevant today as ever ! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway / Coronation Coronach From: GUEST,Steve Date: 07 Jan 11 - 06:16 AM As a Luke Kelly fan I just found a version of this on youtube. Never heard it before.....brilliant! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway / Coronation Coronach From: Jim McLean Date: 07 Jan 11 - 07:23 AM Hi Steve, I arranged for the Dubliners to record the song for Major Minor. Morris Blythman, who wrote the song, made very silly demands from Major Minor regarding publicity and eventually a one off payment that the recording was scrapped ... a great pity. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway / Coronation Coronach From: GUEST Date: 08 Feb 17 - 03:40 AM Hello Jim, Since some months ago I am translating into Catalan as many Luke Kelly's songs as I find on youtube (rinxolsdefoc.wordpress.com). Now I'd wish to translate "Scottish Breakaway", Luke's version but I can't understand its Scott's single words. I wonder if you could give me their English translation. I am grateful in advance. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway / Coronation Coronach From: Jim McLean Date: 12 Apr 17 - 08:52 AM Sorry, Guest, but I haven't been on Mudcat for some time. Here's your translation: " Oh Scotland hasn't got a Queen, and it hasn't got a King How can you have a second Elizabeth when the first one hasn't been? No Elizabeth the one, no Elizabeth the two, no Elizabeth will ever do. We'll make our land republican in a Scottish breakaway. Her husband is called the Duke of Edinburgh, he's one of those kilted Greeks (Greeks wearing kilts) But do not blow his kilt away as it's Elizabeth who wears the trousers. He's a handsome man, and he looks like Don Juan Beloved by the weaker sex But it doesn't really matter a damn because Elizabeth signs the cheques. Now her sister Margaret has a lovely pair of legs but she didn't want a German or a Greek, Poor old Peter (Townsend) was her choice but he didn't suit the boys (the people in charge) So they sold him up the creek (betrayed and didn't let them marry) But Meg was devious and beat them with Anthony Armstrong-Jones (name with a hyphen) ding dong! (Doesn't mean anything, just a noise from the chorus) But behind the pomp and play, the question of the day was who was Suzie Wong? Yum yum ( just chorus noises suggesting happiness?) (Anthony Armstrong-Jones was having an affair with Suzie Wong, an actress) So here's to the Lion, the lovely rampant lion (the Scottish heraldic flag) And a long stretch to its paw. We'll give a Hampden roar (referring to the noise made at a famous Scottish football stadium ) and it's out the door (we're leaving) Goodbye to Prince Charle's mother (Queen Elizabeth) Hope this helps, regards, Jim |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway / Coronation Coronach From: Jack Campin Date: 12 Apr 17 - 09:38 AM There seem to have been several different versions of this - I have a few different editions of the Rebels Ceilidh Song Book, and it gets progressively longer and progressively weaker as it adds more and more obscure members of the Royal Family - who remembers Peter Townsend now? The short and snappy original version is well worth an airing though. Guest (Maria Santapau) has done her translation now. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scottish Breakaway / Coronation Coronach From: Jim McLean Date: 12 Apr 17 - 02:56 PM This was the version we sang, in Morris's company, in 1959/60. People some time add verses ... they do it to my songs ... and it's not always acceptable or even relevant as you say. It's rationalised as the Folk Process. |
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