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I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes

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Jerry Rasmussen 24 May 05 - 10:50 PM
Azizi 24 May 05 - 11:03 PM
Azizi 25 May 05 - 07:35 AM
Azizi 25 May 05 - 07:49 AM
Azizi 26 May 05 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,Pazzion 26 May 05 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,Joe_F 26 May 05 - 09:40 AM
Azizi 26 May 05 - 10:12 AM
wysiwyg 26 May 05 - 10:13 AM
Azizi 26 May 05 - 10:41 AM
Azizi 26 May 05 - 10:56 AM
Azizi 26 May 05 - 11:33 AM
wysiwyg 26 May 05 - 12:18 PM
wysiwyg 26 May 05 - 12:29 PM
Azizi 26 May 05 - 12:30 PM
wysiwyg 26 May 05 - 12:35 PM
Azizi 26 May 05 - 12:43 PM
wysiwyg 26 May 05 - 01:03 PM
wysiwyg 26 May 05 - 01:29 PM
Azizi 26 May 05 - 01:38 PM
wysiwyg 26 May 05 - 01:44 PM
Azizi 26 May 05 - 02:12 PM
Barbara 26 May 05 - 10:11 PM
Azizi 26 May 05 - 11:26 PM
Barbara 27 May 05 - 09:38 AM
GUEST,Joe_F 27 May 05 - 10:02 AM
GUEST,Haven 27 May 05 - 04:38 PM
Azizi 27 May 05 - 07:12 PM
Azizi 27 May 05 - 07:28 PM
Barbara 27 May 05 - 09:34 PM
Azizi 27 May 05 - 09:50 PM
Azizi 28 May 05 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,sunday monkey 17 Jun 05 - 01:53 AM
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GUEST,Sunday Monkey 17 Jun 05 - 01:59 AM
Azizi 17 Jun 05 - 07:16 PM
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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:50 PM

Ywo Irishmen, two Irishmen, sitting on a fence
One called the other a dirty son of a
Peter Murphy, Peter Murphy, sitting in the grass
Along came a bumble bee and stung him in the
Ask me no questions, I'll tell you know lies
If you ever get hit by a bucket of s***
Be sure to close your
Ice cold lemonade, five cents a glass
If you don't like it you can stick it up your
Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies
If you ever....

That's life
What's life?
A magazine
How much does it cost
Fifteen cents
I've only got a dime
That's life..
What's life..
A magazine

Jerry


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 May 05 - 11:03 PM

Pogo,

Is this the rhyme you were thinking of?

Down, down baby
Down by the roller coaster
Sweet, sweet baby
I'll never let you go.
Shimmy shimmy coco pa
Shimmy shimmy pow!
Shimmy shimmy coco pa
Shimmy shimmy pow!
Grandma, Grandma sick in bed.
Called the doctor and the doctor said,
Let's get the rhythm of the head.
Ding dong.
Let's get the rhythm of the hands
Clap, clap.
Let's get the rhythm of the feet
Stomp, stomp.
Let;s get the rhythm of the
Hot dog.
Put it all together and what do you get?
Ding-dong, clap, clap. Stomp, stomp. Hot dog.
Say it all backwards and what do you get?
Hot dog. Stomp, stomp. Clap, clap. Ding dong!

-snip-

There are multiple versions of this rhyme {and there are multiple versions of most children's rhymes, for that matter}. Alot of children around Pittsburgh, Penn. call this rhyme "Down Down Baby", but it is also called "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pa" {or some similar sounding word at the end like "Pop" or even Puff".

"Grandma, Grandma sick in bed" is a very old rhyme that is found in African American secular slave songs. That rhyme is also recited alone or with in combination with other verses.

Btw, in the "Down, Down Baby" rhyme, a hip shaking motion is usually performed for the phrase "Hot dog".

****

Wheee! Blog
has a great thread on schoolyard rhymes, including multiple versions of "Miss Susie Had A Steamboat"; "Down On The Banks Of The Hanky-Panky" and "Miss Lucy Had A Baby" {Tiny Tim}*

Check it out!

* This rhyme hasn't been posted yet in this thread, but I KNOW someone remembers it and will post it, right?   



Azizi


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 May 05 - 07:35 AM

Recorded tunes are another category of rhymes that children used to tease other kids.

For instance, once upon a time, I was real skinny. And some not so nice kids teased me with the words to this song:

"I got a girl named Bony Moronie
She's as skinny as a stick of macaroni
Ought to see her rock and roll with her blue jeans on
She's not very fat, just skin and bones.

I love her and she loves me.
Oh how happy now we can be,
making love underneath the apple tree."


-snip-

Song:   Bony Moronie (1957)
Artist: Larry Williams

Click HERE

****

I'm sure there are other recorded songs that kids used {use} to
tease others.

Can anyone think of other examples?

Thanks,

Azizi


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 May 05 - 07:49 AM

Well actually as I recall it, the words that the kids * used to tease me were these ones:

"I got a girl named Boney Maronie
She's as skinny as a [piece] of macaroni...
I love her and she loves me...
making love [beneath] the apple tree."

*Interesting, it's the boys' teasing I remember most, and not the girls, if any girls teased me at all. I wonder why that is...

****

I also remember being part of a group of girls in the early grades of elementary school who would run after this popular boy named George and tease him with the words to this Mother Goose rhyme:

Georgie Porgie Puddin Pie
kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play
Geogie Porgie ran away.

-snip-


Mind you, we really liked George. If a girl caught him, she was supposed to kiss him, but I never did {either caught him or kissed him}.

Also we didn't have a clue that this rhyme was actually a putdown on 'Georgie' who for some reason was afraid to stick around when the other boys came out to play.

What's up with that?

Incidently, when I went home a couple of years ago, I found out that the George who we used to chase is now a judge..

More power to him!



Azizi


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 09:23 AM

Here's another children's rhyme from Wheee! Blog that I hyperlinked in earlier posts.

I have read a number of other versions of this rhyme before [though I've only seen a version of it performed one time].

But IMO, this version is simply delightful. Check it out!:

"A B C,
It's easy as 1 2 4,
My mamma takes care of me,
My daddy has stinky feet,
Oh! Ah! I wanna a piece of pie,
Pie's to sweet I wanna piece of meat,
Meat's too red I wanna go to bed,
Bed's not made I want some lemonade,
Lemonade's to sour,
I wanna take a shower,
Shower's too cold I wanna piece of gold,
Gold's too shiny I wanna kiss your hiney,
Hiney's too fat and thats the end of that,
Count to 10 and do it over again,
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10..."

{posted by Amanda at May 25, 2005 02:02 PM; reposted with permission of that Blog's members}

-snip-

Usually 'ABC' is a handclap rhyme. The poster for the version presented above didn't give any information about how the rhyme is performed, what city/state she was in when the rhyme was performed, or what year[s] it was performed.

BTW, the '124' in the second line of the rhyme isn't MY typo, and may not be a typo on the rhyme informant's part at all {maybe that is the way she recites it or recited it}. But most versions of this rhyme say "It's as easy as 1-2-3" which of course rhymes with "ABC".
The source of those words are the call & response chorus of the Jackson 5's 1970 R&B song "ABC":

"J5: abc
Michael: easy as...
J5: 123
Michael: or simple as...
J5: do re mi
Michael: abc, 123, baby, you and me girl!
J5: abc
Michael: easy as...
J5: 123
Michael: or simple as...
J5: do re mi
Michael: abc, 123, baby, you and me!"

Click Jackson 5's ABC for the complete lyrics to this song.
-snip-

Thanks to all who have posted examples of rhymes here.

I will be in touch with Mudcat members who posted in this thread to see if I can use your posts in the book that I am preparing for print publication.


Azizi Powell


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Pazzion
Date: 26 May 05 - 09:23 AM

I remember
Down Down Baby Down Down the rollercoaster
Sweet Sweet Baby I'll never let you go
Shimmy shimmy cocoa puff shimmy shimmy I
Shimmy shimmy cocoa puff shimmy shimmy I
I like coffee I like tea
I like a colored boy and he likes me
so step back white boy
you don't cause a cool colored boy gonna bet your behind
He'll beat it once he'll beat it twice
He'll beat it beat it beat it
So let's get the rhythm of the head
Ding dong
Sho' got the rhythm of the head head
Ding dong
Let's get the rhythm of the hands
(Clap,Clap)
Sho' got the rhythm of the hands
(Clap,Clap)
Let's get the rhythm of the feet
(Stomp, Stomp)
Sho' got the rhythm of the feet
(Stomp, Stomp)
Let's get the rhythm of the Hot Dog (While doing the snake)
Sho' got the rhythm of the Hot Dog
Ding dong, clap,clap,stomp,stomp,Hot Dog


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 26 May 05 - 09:40 AM

Jerry Rasmussen: At least our version of "Here comes the bride" was free of racism %^):

Here comes the bride,

Fair, fat, and wide.

Here comes the groom,

Skinny as a broom.

-- A better rhyme, too.

For "That's life", cf.

Spring is coming.

He is?

Not "he is", "it is".

It is what?

It is coming.

What is coming?

Spring is coming.

He is?, etc.

--- Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||: In movies everyone is too rich and everything is too clean. :||


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 10:12 AM

Pazzion,

I'm very interested in knowing when and where you heard or performed the rhyme that you posted and who [what children] performed it.

Few children's rhymes that have collected mention race or ethnicity. However, for some reason, the "I Like {Love} Coffee; I Like {Love} Tea" rhymes that I've collected [performed post 1970s; in various cities] consistantly mention race.

The words are usually "I like a black boy {or colored boy and he likes me}. The rhymes also consistently include the words "Step back, white boy you don't shine, I'll get a black [or colored boy]
to kick your behind".

Of course, the 'standard' words to this rhyme have nothing to do with race or fighting, but are usually given as
I like a boy [I like the boys]
and he likes me [and they like me]

Why the change in wording? Could this change be an unintended result of increased integration in schools and neighborhoods?

In the last 30 years there has been an increase in interracial dating & marriage. Could these rhymes be children's social commentary on tense interracial interactions and not just interracial romantic attractions????


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 10:13 AM

I will be in touch with Mudcat members who posted in this thread to see if I can use your posts in the book that I am preparing for print publication.

Please tell us more about your project, Azizi. How is it funded?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 10:41 AM

To Pazzion: when I wrote that I was interested in knowing "who [what children] performed' that rhyme you posted, I was seeking information on the race/ethnicity of the children.

****

From my research it appears that there are some rhymes that are performed by children in the USA regardless of race. However, there are other rhymes and types of rhymes that seem to be more common among children of one race or another.

For instance, in my admittedly limited research, I have not yet had any African American child, youth, or adult recite any gross out rhymes like:

"Great big gobs of
Greasy grimy gopher guts
Jubilated monkey's feet
Concentrated birdies' feet
A great big jar of
All-purpose porpoise pus
And me without a spoon!
(I love it so)"

-snip-

I don't remember these types of rhymes from my childhood/youth. I don't see examples of these types of rhymes in books of African Ameircan children's rhymes. I've never observed any African American children reciting these types of rhymes. And when I ask African Americans if they know 'Great big globs or Greasy grimy gopher guts' they invariably say 'no' and 'ugh!'

I also haven't found excessively violent rhymes among African American children like these ones:

"Lizzy Borden took an axe
She gave her father forty whacks
When the job was halfway through
She gave her mother forty-two.

-snip-

or

"On top of old smoky, all covered with sand,
I shot my poor teacher, with a big rubber band!
I shot her with pleasure, I shot her with pride!
I couldnt've missed her...she's eighty feet wide!"
-snip-

And, I should mention, that the 'shooting the teacher' example is quite mild compared with other rhymes that I have seen in print-here on other Mudcat threads on children's rhymes and elsewhere.

If it is true that these types of rhymes are recited wth different frequency by children of different races, what if anything, does it mean??

I'm interested in others' input regarding this. Has anyone else noticed this? Or am I completely out to lunch [about this I mean]

:>)

Azizi


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 10:56 AM

WYSIWYG {and anyone else interested in WYSIWYG's question to me from her post on 26 May 05 - 10:13 AM}:

Thank you for your question.

I was honored to receive a small fellowship at the end of 2003 from the Pennsylvania Council of the Arts in association with the Pennsylvania Council on the Humanities. The fellowship was in the area of 'perspective on the arts'. My specific area of interest for this fellowship was [is] children's rhymes.

I am currently working on this project with a University of Pittsburgh professor. However, I haven't identified a publisher for this book. Nor have I received any additional funding for this research/compilation/writing.

As I am a free lance artist who could use additional fiscal support, if you [or anyone else for that matter] are aware of any funding that would support this project, I'd be happy to receive that information!


Azizi

PS. In an earlier Mudcat thread that I started on my rhyme project,
I indicated that if I ever received any money as a result of this project, I will provide a donation to Mudcat. I now repeat that promise.


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 11:33 AM

Jerry & Joe F. thanks for posting some interesting putdown and word play rhymes

Jerry, with regards to the "Two Irishmen, two Irishmen, sitting on a fence" that you posted on 24 May 05 - 10:50 PM

is that rhyme and the "that's life" verses part of the same rhyme or are they two separate rhymes?

Joe posted another version for 'that's life' so maybe it was [is] a separate rhyme...

And Jerry-after the floating verse "ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies {that incidently also is used in other profanity avoidance rhymes like "Miss Susie Had A Steamboat"}, you wrote "If you ever...."

Does this mean that you forgot the rest of the words? or is this the way the rhyme went?
****

I'd like to remind folks that no one has responded yet to Snuffy's 24 May 05 - 08:29 request for the rest of the words to another play on words rhyme:

"If our Bob gave your Bob a bob on the nose ....."

And no one has posted the words to "Miss Lucy Had A Baby" {Tiny Tim}yet.

Will this thread retire with these posts left hanging???

Oh woe is me! Woe is me!!


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:18 PM

Azizi, when you indicate that you have collected a rhyme, do you mean that you made a field recording or verbatim transcription of what you observed, or do you use that term to refer to gathering contributions such as you have gathered here in this thread?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:29 PM

Also, regarding this statement: From my research it appears that there are some rhymes that are performed by children in the USA regardless of race. However, there are other rhymes and types of rhymes that seem to be more common among children of one race or another....

What is your sample base-- are you relying on adult recollections, among non-African Americans, for that side of your question?

You also say, I also haven't found excessively violent rhymes among African American children like these ones:

"Lizzy Borden took an axe
She gave her father forty whacks
When the job was halfway through
She gave her mother forty-two.

-snip-

or

"On top of old smoky, all covered with sand,
I shot my poor teacher, with a big rubber band!
I shot her with pleasure, I shot her with pride!
I couldnt've missed her...she's eighty feet wide!"


When you say "these ones", are you equating a "fat joke" that derides a figure of authority with "excessive violence"? Didn't AA slaves make some pretty pungent remarks, possibly even rhymes, about figures of authority? If so, does that indicate a violent mindset to you?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:30 PM

Susan,

All of the above and more.


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:35 PM

Azizi, are you using the term "collected" to refer to adult recollections, and including that process when you use the term "research"? How much of your research is based on that type of collecting?

I'm familiar with people using DT studies and thread discussions about songs as a place to get leads to DO research, but I would be surprised if serious researchers considered the posts of one or two threads a relevant sample. I would think there would be a number of issues, speaking in tgerms of solid statistical measurement.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:43 PM

Susan,

In no way were my comments meant to imply, suggest, or infer that one race is more violent than another.

I am wondering if others have noticed any differences in the types of rhymes that different children, youth, and adults appear to prefer to recite and/or perform. If there are any differences, they may or may not relate to the way violence or reactions to violence are expressed by individuals from that group.

I believe that it is entirely appropriate to ask the broader humanities based questions regarding the psycho-social implications of examples of a creative folk art form that is usually not considered creative or an art, but IMO, is very much both.

And, Susan, any other information about my project will be available for your consideration when and if the book is published.

I thank you for your interest.


Azizi


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 01:03 PM

Azizi, what is your opinion about the ethical considerations described in the following:

Disguised Field Observations:
Okay, this gets a little sticky. In Disguised field analysis the researcher pretends to join or actually is a member of a group and records data about that group. The group does not know they are being observed for research purposes. Here, the observer may take on a number of roles. First, the observer may decide to become a complete-participant in which they are studying something they are already a member of. For instance, if you are a member of a sorority and study female conflict within sororities you would be considered a complete-participant observer. On the other hand you may decide to only participate casually in the group while collecting observations. In this case, any contact with group members is by acquaintance only. Here you would be considered an observer-participant. Finally, if you develop an identity with the group members but do not engage in important group activities consider yourself a participant-observer. An example would be joining a cult but not participating in any of their important rituals (such as sacraficing animals). You are however, considered a member of the cult and trusted by all of the members. Ethically, participant-observers have the most problems. Certainly there are degrees of deception at work. The sensitivity of the topic and the degree of confidentiality are important issues to consider.


SOURCE

~Susan


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 01:29 PM

Azizi, I agree that it is entirely appropriate to ask the broader humanities based questions regarding the psycho-social implications of examples of a creative folk art form that is usually not considered creative or an art, but IMO, is very much both
and I look forward to your replies to the questions I raised in that vein.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 01:38 PM

Susan.

I will not engage with you in a discussion of the whys and wherefores of my children's rhymes project and/or my role as a Mudcat member.

To paraphase Popeye the sailorman [but without the dialect],

I am who I am, and that's who I am.


Azizi Powell


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 01:44 PM

Azizi,

Wouldn't you agree that research engenders a number of ethical issues?

Is there a reason not to discuss them openly with "field subjects"?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 02:12 PM

Susan,

"I said it.
I meant it.
And I'm here to represent it"



Azizi Powell


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Barbara
Date: 26 May 05 - 10:11 PM

Growing up in suburban Detroit in the fifties, many of the ones you post are familiar to me. We also said "Liar, liar, pants on fire, nose as long as a telephone wire" and I thought almost every playground had "I see London..." (Always associate that one with the jungle gym, wonder why).
My Grandma said a number of rhymes and riddles as well (I be white, if that be relevant). Do you want those?
Things like

What a funny bird the frog are,
When he hop, he fly almost,
When he stand he sit almost,
When he sit, he sit on what he ain't got hardly.

We also sang "Here comes the bride, short fat and wide..." the rest's the same. And the "Fatty, fatty 2X4.." we also said.

And,
Oh fudge, oh joy
Momma's got a baby boy
Wrap him up in tissue paper
Put him in the 'frigerator.


Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 11:26 PM

I appreciate your post, Barbara!

I mentioned race earlier in this thread because I'm interested in asking the question "Is race a factor in the TYPES of rhymes recited and the WAY the rhymes are performed?" I think the answer may be "It depends" or-better yet- the answer may be "Yes. No. Maybe so."

I am interested in folks sharing rhymes that they knew or know, regardless of their race.

****

Barbara, you wrote "We also sang "Here comes the bride, short fat and wide..." the rest's the same. And the "Fatty, fatty 2X4.." we also said."

I'm not sure what words are 'the rest'..

I have seen a variation of the "fudge" rhyme in print, but other children suggested that the baby be thrown down the 'elevator'.

Barbara, would you please provide approximate years for the rhyme from your Grandmother? I've never seen that one before.

Thanks again.


Azizi


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Barbara
Date: 27 May 05 - 09:38 AM

"Here comes the bride, short, fat and wide,
Here comes the groom skinny as a broom."
I think it was Jerry Rassmussen's post about that one. the difference is that I have the word "short" where he (or someone else) has "fair".
And it's "Fatty, fatty, two by four,
          Can't get through the bathroom door.
          So he did it on the floor."
I think Bev and Jerry posted that one.

My Grandma was born in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1891 and died in Detroit, Michigan (lived there from teens on) in 1980. I can remember that rhyme from about 1955. She also often admonished me "A whistling girl and a crowing hen/Will surely come to no good end." So I'd go whistle somewhere else.

Oh, and we sang "All the girls in France, they don't wear no underpants" There's more tune, but I don't remember any more words.

When they turned our local grade school into a Burn-to-learn last week, (NW Oregon)(they're building a new school and it's a fast way of clearing the site).
I discovered that the kids here still sing (as we did):
Glory, glory, hallelujah,
Teacher hit me with a ruler
I bopped her on the bean
With a rotten tangerine
The school is burning down.
Someone even brought packages of hot dogs and marshmallows.
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 27 May 05 - 10:02 AM

Barbara: Oh, yes, I had forgotten about that one. In Beverly Hills in the 1940s it was

There's a place in France

Where the women wear no pants

And the men go round

With their wienies hanging down.

In those days it was the first dirty song that most boys learned. Once I was at a circus where, as part of the show, a line of elephants defecated in unison, while the band played the tune to that song. There is no connection, of course, between elephant droppings and French underwear, but the tune seemed appropriate to accompany the dirty part of the show.

--- Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||: Dress for success: wear a white penis. :||


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Haven
Date: 27 May 05 - 04:38 PM

Cinderella, Cinderella, was common in my elementary school in Utah in the mid eighties. As was the Glory Glory Hallelujah. I can also add:

Joy to the World, the school burned down,
And all the teacher's died!
Except for the principal
We found him in the toilet bowl
With a rope around his neck . . .

And a rhyme for Chinese jump rope--

Ching, Chang, China Man
Chop Chop SUUU-EY!
Sitting in a china shop
Eating chop SUUU-EY!

Two other's I'm wondering if anyone else knows--

"What you say is what you are, You're a naked movie star" (I'm specifically interested in knowing if anyone knows if this was said before about 1980, or if it's known by anyone outside of Utah).

And one that I THINK I learned in Sacramento CA around 1989 that even my brother's and sister can't remember ever hearing before--I can't remember how it begins, but the part I do remember goes

"Have a peach, have a plum, have a stick of chewing gum,
and if you want another one, this is what you say--
A man, a man, a mandiego, sandiego
Hocus pocus dominocus
Brave Eagles!
Sitting on a trash can, beating on a tin can
Who can? We can! Nobody else can!
Sis, sis, sis boom bah!
Horses, Horses,
Rah! Rah! Rah!"

Also, the suffocation song--sung to the tune of Allouetta

Suffocation, super suffocation
Suffocation, the game we like to play

First you take a rubber hose,
Then you stuff it up your nose
Turn it on, then you're gone!
Oh, oh, oh, oh

Suffocation (repeat)

Next you take a pillocase,
Then you wrap it round your face
Go to bed, Wake up dead
Oh, oh, oh, oh

Suffocation (repeat)


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 27 May 05 - 07:12 PM

Haven,

Thanks for posting such interesting rhymes!

The "Have a peach, have a plum" rhyme that you remember sounds like a cheerleading chant that is made up of bits and pieces of other rhymes/chants.

There are a large number of rhymes that start with "Take a peach, take a plum, take a piece of bubble gum". I have also come across several rhymes that include the words "Sitting on a trash can, beating on a tin can". And of course, "Who can? We can! Nobody else can! Sis, sis, sis boom bah!...Rah! Rah! Rah!" is chanted by cheerleaders all over the place.

Could there be [or have been] a sports team in your area whose name became converted by you or other children to the word 'horses'???

****

Here are two examples of children's rhymes that contain the 'floating verses' that you remember from your childhood "Have A Peach" rhyme:

Shake, shake, shake
Eeny meeny
That's a queeny
Ooh ba Thumbalina
Ah cha ca che Liberace
Oh baby I love you
Yes I do.
Take a peach
Take a plum
Take a piece of bubble gum
No peach
No plum
Just a piece of bubble gum
Oooshe ahshe
Oooshe ahshe
I want a piece of pie
The pie too sweet
I want a piece of meat
The meat too tough
I want to ride the bus
The bus too full
I want to ride the bull
The bull too black
I want my money back
The money too green
I want a diamond ring.
        {Source Barbara Michels, Bettye White, "Apples On A Stick,
       The Folklore of Black Children", 1983, p. 17
       {Houston, Texas}

-snip-

star spangle...
itsy bitsy teeny witsy ew oh to0-ba-leeny outsy whatsy sellahawts say the magic words.. i have a stick of chewing gum and if you want the other half.. this is what you say.. amen. amen. amen-deyago sedeyago hookes pookes sallamoskes sis.. sis .. sis coom ba.. everybody eerybody RA-RA-RA.. BOO-BOO-BOO.. sitting on a trash can banging on a tin can i can you can nobody else can sitting on a bench.. nothnig to do.. along comes a little baby goochy gochy goo..

i learned this as when i was litte.

{Source: Wheee! Blog; posted by brrittannee at March 25, 2005}

-snip-

Enjoy!

****

Ms. Azizi Powell


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 27 May 05 - 07:28 PM

Haven,

I also meant to point out that the example from the Wheee! Blog thread on school yard rhymes [hyperlinked above in a couple of my posts in this thread] contains other pieces of your "Have A Peach" rhyme. That post is presented as it is found on that site [including typos] and is reposted with the permission from that blog's members.

I'm sure you've notices the similarities between portions of "Star Spangle" and the rhyme that you remember:

Your rhyme:

A man, a man, a mandiego, sandiego
Hocus pocus dominocus...
Sitting on a trash can, beating on a tin can
Who can? We can! Nobody else can!
Sis, sis, sis boom bah!...
Rah! Rah! Rah!"

-snip-

And the "Star Spangled" Rhyme:
"amen-deyago sedeyago hookes pookes sallamoskes sis.. sis .. sis coom ba.. everybody eerybody RA-RA-RA.. BOO-BOO-BOO.. sitting on a trash can banging on a tin can i can you can nobody else can sitting on a bench.."

-snip-

Unfotunately, the poster of the Wheee! Blog rhyme provided no demographic information {geographical location, info. on when this rhyme was performed, etc/}. From reading that Wheee! Blog thread, it appears that a number of posters are teenagers, young adults, and even younger, but I can't say that with any certainity.

But at least you can be assurred that you didn't dream up this rhyme-even though others can't remember it! You should pat yourself on the back for YOUR memory!

As for the movie star putdown rhyme-sorry I haven't come across that one yet, though there are a number of children's rhymes about being a movie star.


Azizi

PS. The game song pages are only one part of Wheee! Blog. That blog is an an eclectic mix of alot of different topics, some of which might {and might not} appeal to Mudcat members and guests.


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Barbara
Date: 27 May 05 - 09:34 PM

When someone offered you an insult, you would reply, "I know that's what YOU are, but what am I?"

What about rhythm games? We played "Rhythm Ready" (and I can't quite remember how it goes, and (clap, snap, clap, snap)
All: Who stole the cookies from the cookie jar?
A:Number -- stole the cookies from the cookie jar.
B:Who me?
All:Yes you.
B:Couldn't be.
All:Then who?
B: Number -- stole the cookies from the cookie jar.

Missing would of course eliminate you from the circle.

My mother tells me that I drove everyone nuts when I was about five by asking them "Guess what?" and when they said "What?" I'd say "That's what!"

When I was in first grade another kid at the drinking fountain asked me, "Did you get the letter I sent you?" and when I said "No", the kid stamped on my foot and said "Oh, I forgot to stamp it."

Does that count as a game? I thought it was mean. I still do.
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 27 May 05 - 09:50 PM

Barbara, I used to do that "Guess what?"-"That's what" exchange.
For some reason it tickled my funny bone. Still does when I'm acting really silly with those I know well.

I also played "Who stole the cookie from the cookie jar" when I was little.

And I agree that that letter stamping action was mean.

I guess we're kindred souls.

:o)


Azizi


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 28 May 05 - 10:30 AM

I'm curious if this rhyme is familiar to anyone:

I WENT TO THE CHINESE RESTAURANT

I went to a Chinese restaurant
to buy a loaf of bread bread bread
The waiter asked my name
and this is what I said said said:
My name is Eli Eli
Chickali Chickali
Pom Pom Beauty
Extra Cutie
I know karate
Punch you in the body
Oops! I'm sorry
Tell my Mommy
Miss ya, miss yah
Don't wanna kiss yah
Chinese
Japanese
Indian
Freeze!

(players point to each other and freeze)

{African American elementary school age girls Pittsburgh, Penn.
and Philadelphia Penn, collected 1999, 2003}.



Azizi


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Subject: Speak Monkey Speak
From: GUEST,sunday monkey
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 01:53 AM

from the sf bay area in the 60's:

order in the court
the monkey wants to speak
speak monkey speak
the first one to speak
is the monkey of the week


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,sunday monkey
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 01:56 AM

who stole the cookie from the cookie jar?
number 1 stole the cookie from the cookie jar.
who sir me sir?
yes sir you sir.
no sir not i sir.
then sir who sir?

...

also: who stole the tart from the queen of hearts?


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Sunday Monkey
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 01:59 AM

i saw a dead snake lying in the road.

say: i 1 it.

the other person says: 1 2 it.

say: 1 3 it.

other person: 1 4 it.



... the other person says "1 8 it".

You did! Gross!


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 07:16 PM

Thanks, Sunday Monkey!

I remember playing "Who stole the cookie from the cookie jar" long long ago when I was growing up {Atlantic City, New Jersey, 1950s}.
It was the only handclapping game that I remember playing with kids sitting down and clapping there own hands to the rhythm while they chanted the words.

The way we played it was that numbers were called out consecutively starting with #1 and going through how many numbers of children were in the group. Boring.

Far more adults who I talked to have recollections of playing "Who stole a cookie" than children. "Who stole [took] the cookie" doesn't appear to be well known among children {mostly African American}in Pittsburgh who I worked with in after school programming from 1997-to date. It doesn't appear to be a game that children play without adult prompting and adult supervision like other group hand claps such as "Concentration" and "Slap Billyola" {"Strolla Ola Ola"}. *

If this game was known to the children who I worked with before I introduced it, it was usually played with the person who starts randomly selecting a number.

For instance, the first person would call out "#5 stole the cookie from the cookie jar". The response that I remember using and that I've heard in Pittsburgh is less polite than Sunday's Monkey's memory. It is:

"#5" : "Who me? Couldn't be.
Rest of the group: Then who stole the cookie from the cookie jar

and then #5 would call out another random number

BTW, when I introduced it to children I changed the words to "Who took the cookie from the cookie jar" since I figured this is what was meant anyway and I didn't like promoting 'stealing'

****

* More on those rhymes in posts that follow...



Azizi


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 08:15 PM

"Slap Billyola" is a group elimination handclap game that I first heard about from my daughter and her friends in Pittsburgh, PA in the 1980s. However, I believe from reading Internet websites on games that this game and similar group handclap games -Strolla Ola Ola" and "Stella Ola Ola" are widely known.

Here are the words:

Slap Billyola
slap, slap, slap. [these words are said]
Sandarico, rico, rico, rico *
With ah 1-2-3-4-5!

-snip-

Performance instructions:

The group forms a wide circle. Before beginning, the group [or one strong personality in the group] decides which number to end the rhyme with {for instance, "#5" in the example above}. Actually though if the group is used to ending this rhyme with the number '5", there is seldom any discussion about which number is going to be the end number.

All children stand in place. In clockwise order, on the beat, one child at a time lightly slaps the hand of the child standing to his right. The person whose hand is slapped on the end number is "Out". Of course, some children try to move their hand out the way, so it won't be hit for that end number, but there is really no way to avoid it. When there are two children remaining, they each take turns slapping the others hand which each word. The person whose hand is slapped on the last number "Loses" and the remaining person is "The Winner".

* I wonder if "sandarico" is folk etymology for the unfamiliar Spanish word "senorita".

****

STROLLA OLA OLA is played ** the same way. Here are the words to that game:
   
Strolla ola ola
Slap, slap, slap.
With ah "s" cheeka cheeka
cheeka cheeka flap jack.
Fah lay, fah lay
Fahlay, fahlay , fahlay
With ah 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 *

-snip-

BTW, these elimination handclap games are "played" by both girls and boys together. I've never seen boys play them separatedly,but I've seen girls do so.

** Children usually don't say that they 'play' these games. They say that they 'do' these games. They usually just refer to the words to the songs by their specific names {for example, they say "Let's do "Stola Ola Ola" and not "Let's do a handclap game"}. If children use any other group referent for the words, it is 'song' or cheer' and not 'rhyme'.

And another thing-when I was growing up I NEVER heard these rhymes or their handclap activity called 'handjive'. No African American child or youth who I have ever interviewed or met with in after-school programming ever used the term "handjive". And no African American adult who I interviewed about their play experience EVER indicated that they used this term.

Of course, I've only interviewed about 200 or so African Americans in Pittsburgh and about that number elsewhere, and I wouldn't hesitate to state without any hesitation that we don't use the term 'handjive" to descrive either the rhymes or their performance.

But it's no biggie what you call it. Doing it is what's fun...

****

Click HERE for a Mudcat thread on Strolla Ola Ola/Stella Ola Ola.



Azizi Powell


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 08:42 PM

Here are two examples of "Concentration" from a website called "Wheee! Blog". These posts are used with permission from that site moderator and are provided as they were found {with misspelling etc}:

"Um i can remember consentraition goes like...

Consentration *clap clap clap*
64 *clap clap clap*
no repeats*clap clap clap*
or heastitations*clap clap clap*
ill go first *clap clap clap*
u'll go second *clap clap clap**continues to how many ppl their are*
the catergory is *clap clap clap*
ANYTHING *thats u want it to be and begin naming things that has to do with that catergory and u cant repeat or heastate and the catergory can be literally anything like anything its self and clap in between*

posted by Karie at September 21, 2003

-snip-

"wats up. i know one it goes:

the game is clap clap clap
concentration clap clap clap
no repeats clap clap clap
or hesitations clap clap clap
catagorization clap clap clap
(what ever you pick) clap clap clap

posted by j-me at April 26, 2005


Click Wheee! Blog for more examples of contemporary children's school yard rhymes.

****

More comments on "Concentration": This is another game that is good for teaching mental alertness {not to mention good sportmanship and other social skills}.

The girls and boys stand in a wide circle. In Pittsburgh I have heard the words as follows:


Concentration
No repeats or hesitations
Name of ____

On "name of" someone selects a category such as "Girl's Names" , "Fruits", "Sports".

While reciting the first part of the rhyme {"Concentration, no repeat or hesitation, name of ___ ", each child alternately claps the hands of the children standing on either side, and his or her own hands. When clapping the hands of the children standing on either side one palm is up and the other palm is down.

The game then is played almost like "Clap Billyeola", but without the hand slapping. One at a time, in clock wise order, each child has to quickly name something in the declared category-and there can be no repeats or hesitations. If the child names something that doesn't belong to that category, or if he or she hesitates, or repeats a word, or object that had been previously given, he or she is "Out".

The object of the game is to be the last person remaining. That person is "The Winner".


Azizi Powell


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 01:34 PM

TTTO Sweet Rosie O'Grady:

She swallowed some poison,

But dying by inches was hard,

So she went out in the alley

And lay down and died by the yard.

I don't know the rest of it.

--- Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||: Those who believe only what they can prove can generally prove everything they want to believe. :||


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 08:15 PM

Does anyone remember the "Tarzan the Jungle Man" song? When he swims
across the river aligators flee..there's never been another, since the world began like Tarzan the Jungle Man. Also the Little Train
Who Went Achow (sneezed) Once there was a chow chow..All the little
children laughed at him and teased him, sticks & stones they threw
cause he was going Achow 'stead of going cho-cho like the other cho
cho trains do. The children were playing on the track one day when the cho-cho was headed their way..he knew he couldn't stop & he couldn't turn back.. so he went achow and blew them off the track..now they wait for hours, shower him with flowers when he comes
in view..so ends the story of the little train who blew his nose.
I remember these songs from the '50's but I dont have all the words.
Let me know if you remember these lines, so I can teach them to my
grandkids!


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Subject: RE: i see london i see france....
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 12:29 PM


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Mo the caller
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:13 AM

In the @80s in cheshire UK my childrens friends used
Liar, liar
Pants on fire
Also when deciding who would have first turn
First the worst
Next the best
Third the...
(dirty soldier?? drunken sailor?)
I cant remember the rest, we never said it as children
EFDSS have brought out a book about playground rhymes recently aimed at teachers.


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Robin Madge
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 08:00 AM

My mother(84) says the following and claims she learnt it as a children's rhyme

Christmas is coming and the goose is getting fat
Please put a penny in the old man's hat.
If you haven't got a penny a ha'penny will do,
If you haven't got a ha'penny a farthing will do
If you haven't got a farthing a shoe(sic) will do
If you have'nt got a shoe then God bless you.

This is from Somerset U.K. and is fairly common around the country except for the "shoe" line. My theory is that it is a corruption of "sou" and dates back to when french and other foreign currency was accepted in England.

Robin Madge


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 11:18 AM

It goes, Liar liar, pants on fire
hanging on the telephone wire


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,BNP
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 05:02 PM

Miss Lucy has a tugboat the tugboat had a bell the tugboat went to heaven Miss Lucy went to


Hello Operator dial me number nine if you disconnect me I'll kick your fat

Behind the bed there lay a piece of glass Miss Lucy thought it would be funny if she broke her brothers

Asssk me no more questions tell me no more lies the boys are in the bathtub pooping out dead flies.


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Hand ruler!
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 05:10 PM

Key
* is Clap



Ms. Sue * * * scooby do *** Ms. Sue from Alabama,Alaska,Maraska eatin in a rocker eatin Betty Crocker watchin the clock go tick - tock tick - tock a weena beena tick - tock tick -tock ABCDEFG wipe those dog germs off of me... turn out the lights and freeze................. unfreeze


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,guest guest
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 05:37 PM

Ms. Suzy was a baby all she did was cry cry cry, when Ms. Suzy was a kid all she did was lie lie lie, when Ms. Suzy was a teenager all she said was leave me a lone lone lone, then Ms. suzy was a adult buying her first home home home, then Ms. Suzy was a mother her kids were just the same same same, she said the were not like her but that they were a big pain pain pain, then Ms. Suzy was a grandma and left when she heard the church bell bell bell, but she did not leave for church so she will go to h*** h*** h***, when Ms. Suzy was on her death bed she told her kids keep well well well, and if you get to poor my body you can sell selll sell!


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: dulcimer42
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 10:52 PM

My mother said kids used to say this, where she grew up in an orphanage in Indiana.... that would have been in the early 1900's

(Suzie)'s mad, and I'm glad and I know what will please her: a bottle of ink to make her stink, a bottle of wine to make her shine, and a little N----- boy to please her.


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Abbie from Arizona
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:56 AM

I don't have any new rhymes to add, but I'd like to give you the versions of a couple that I grew up with, in Southern California in the late 80's and early 90's:

Down by the banks of the Hanky Panky
Where the bullfrogs jump (sometimes we said "croak" instead) from bank to banky
With an eep, opp, soda-pop
With an eep, opp...ker-plop!

I was also surprised by the word differences in this one from what you put down (I'm not sure if you heard it as a rhyme or as a song. Ours had a definite melody, though- pretty whiney and screechy):

Great green globs of greasy grimey gopher guts
Mutilated monkey meat
Itty-bitty birdy feet
All wrapped up in a package full of porpoise pus
Swimming in a pool of blood

My mom also taught me one from her childhood (1960's southern California):

Acka-backa soda-cracka
Acka-backa-boo
Acka-backa soda-cracka
I see you! (it might've been "out goes you," now that I think of it)

demographics for mine are pretty much all white kids. The frog one was just girls, whereas everybody did the gopher guts one. Not sure about the soda cracker one, since I wasn't there.


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Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Spain
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:51 AM

Teaching English is Spain and my students love these types of rhymes the best. Originally from Boston surprised not to see:

U - G - L - Y
You ain't got no alibi
you're ugly
that's right
you're ugly

There is a second phrase about "your momma", but I don't remember it.


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