Rhythm And Blues

Subject: Rhythm And Blues
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 May 05 - 12:19 PM

This may be stretching the boundaries of Mudcat a little, depending on how restrictive your definition of folk music is. I wouldn't really call rhythm and blues folk music, but there is a lot of the early stuff that makes the boundaries between folk, blues and gospel seem questionable. I'm starting this thread because I love rhythm and blues... at least what was called rhythm and blues up until the 60's. The title since then has lost all meaning to me, and the vocal groups that were called rhythm and blues in the 50's and 60's may now be referred to as Doo Wop. But until the 60's everything from Bo Diddley, Little Richard and Fats Domino to The Penguins and the Orioles were called rhythm and blues. Even blues musicians like John Lee Hooker and Little Milton had their hits in rhythm and blues.

A week ago, I picked up a four CD set titled The Dawn Of Doo Wop, and I'm finging it fascinating listening. It traces "Doo Wop" ( a term I've never really liked) back to the Ink Spots, Mills Brothers and gospel quartets. Some of the recordings have guitar backing that sounds just like country blues, to me. One of the guys in one of the Men's Choruses I sing in was the lead singer in one of the Ink Spots
groups formed after Bill Kenney left, and that's gotten me interested in their early stuff, too.

Mostly, this'll be a short thread... just wondering who else in here has a love for early rhythm and blues.

And then this thread can go to The Land Of Threads That Time Forgot.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 23 May 05 - 12:46 PM

It's funny you should metion Doo-Wop, 'cos there's a radio show here on WOGL in Philly called "Street Corner Sunday" that I listen to religiously.
They play all sorts of Doo-Wop that you don't usually hear on the radio. It's amazing how some of those 'street corner' groups came up, and did it Acappela all those years, and made records. Incidentally, the Five Satins were from New Haven, CT. which is near my hometown.

Anyway, I love Doo-Wop, and I'm also crazy about Motown.
Good idea for a thread...

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 May 05 - 12:58 PM

Hey, Chris:

I can just about look out my window and see New Haven. The Male Chorus I mentioned is the Greater New Haven Men's Fellowship Chorus, and New Haven is just a ten minute drive away. Fred Paris, lead singer for the Five Satins lives nearby and MC'd a dinner we went to a couple of years ago.

He wore a canary yellow suit.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 May 05 - 01:10 PM

Jerry, you can count me in ~ way in! Real R&B is probably my single favorite musical genre, dating back to before I ever heard of folk music. I was a little kid during the early days of rock 'n' roll, and my favorites among all the tunes coming out of jukesboxes and radios were almost invariably the real original (i.e., African-American) recordings.

Over the years, my loyalties wavered and were temporarily claimed by "hootenanny"-style folk, and then hard-core folk blues, but when my interests turned (along with those of so many others) to Chicago-style electric blues and to Dylanesque folk-rock, I finally felt free to reclaim my first love, R&B or "roots" rock.

The group-vocal pieces commonly called "doo-wop" had obvious roots in older styles, including gospel (obviously) as well as 1930s-40s showbiz stuff like the Inkspots, Mills Brothers, etc.

The 1950s was a golden age for R&B session musicians in my adopted hometown of New Orleans, where local singers as well as out-of-town artists like Little Richard and Ray Charles came to record with the legendary session players at Cosimo Matassa's studio.

To my mind, the most sublime and joyous music of all is the work of Professor Longhair, "The Bach of Rock" and probably the greatest innovator in the R&B pantheon (although he remains virtually unknown to far too many people in the world outside New Orleans). For the best introduction to his music, I would recommend either of the the two CDs resulting from his final recording session, for Alligator Records. "Crawfish Fiesta" was released (coincidentally) on the very day that Fess passed away in January of 1980, and one more album was released later featuring the rest of the tracks recorded at that final session. (Sorry, can't remember the title off the top of my head.)

It's a shame that the term "R&B" no longer seems to mean the same thing that it meant for a good half-century; the term is now applied to any and all popular music marketed to black people that does not fall into the categories of rap or hip-hop. As such, it is generally applied to lovesongs and ballads featuring overdone pseudo-soulful vocalizing backed with a lot of synthesized strings ~ a pretty far cry from the Inkspots, the Coasters, the Platters, "I Only Have Eyes for You" by the Flamingos, Little Richard, the Isley Brothers, etc. etc.

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 23 May 05 - 01:34 PM

Wow! You're that close Jerry?

I grew up in Milford. Whereabouts are ya?
(Goin' off topic for just a sec.)

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 May 05 - 01:35 PM

I knew that I could count you in Poppa:

I also have a great love for N'Awlins music. I may have the only known copy of Junco Partner by James Wayne (one of my all-time favorite records.) I have a fair amount of N'Awlins stuff on CDs, and just made a CD titled Trying To Get To New Orleans by one of my favorite country-boogie-shuffle groups, The Tractors. They aren't from New Orleans, as far as I know, but have a good feel for the music from there. Another great favorite track of theirs is Badly Bent. "I'm not broke, I'm just badly bent."

I'm always interested in hearing about classic New Orleans stuff..

Jerry

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 01:50 PM

Jerry, I'm sure you're aware that Richie Haves got his start with Doo Wop. True, it wasn't what he became know for, but it is where he cut his teeth. Doo Wop never did leave the street culture, IMO. It continued on and often while leaving the village--at various intersections--one could hear trios or quartets, even quintets--on street corners doing Doo Wop songs. I imagine you (as did I) had the opportunity to join in on the odd song. Beyond all the definitions, Doo Wop developed in the singers a sense of harmony, timing, rhythm and 'soul'. It called for the singers to be spontaneous, to emote. Very cool.

I recall too a moment that was 'breakthrough' for me--and I know you'll understand this. Was a time near 14th Street and 6th Avenue. Some guys were pullin' on some muscatel (I know because I had a few sips) and doing some songs. They let me join in and I stayed there for a few hours (four maybe). Man oh man. At one point I ended up being asked to do the lead. I didn't really know any songs that would be appropriate, so I started singing "Children Go Where I Send Thee", and these guys (four of them), really got into it. Man, we had a blast. People were stopping and we ended up with about twenty folks standing around listening. The breakthrough? That was my voice. It was the first time I ever let the whole thing go. All of it. Didn't worry about making a mistake, just wanted to express, feel, drive.

There is a warm place in the musical part of my soul for Doo Wop. And for those kids who sang it all over New York City.

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: Peace
Date: 23 May 05 - 01:53 PM

Should read Richie Havens.

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 23 May 05 - 01:55 PM

Mr. Havens will still talk about those days if prompted...

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 May 05 - 02:08 PM

Yeah, brucie: I hear you. A few months ago, we went in to New York City and there was a group of five guys singing the old rhythm and blues in the subway. The difference is that now they are hired by the City of New York. I know a blues guitarist who has a license, too. That's fine, because the people you hear who have a license are really great.

Singing with the Gospel Messengers is the closest I'll ever get to singing with the Del Vikings or the Penguins. That's where rhythm and blues came from to a great degree... out of the black churches. You still hear that same sound in black churches, with the smaller choirs.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 05 - 12:18 PM

And from Louis Jordan & His Tympany Five ... " Get up, Get up, Get up, Get up offa yo big fat rusty dusty." C'est Le R&B n'est pas? Likewise the Fat Man and Jack Dupree.

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 May 05 - 12:27 PM

Now ain't that odd - I'd leave the Inkspots and all Do-Wop and barbershop out of R+B, but put James Brown and Etta James and Ike Turner, and a whole lot of chigago stuff, and Chess things, in.

And piano players like Eddie Boyd.

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 24 May 05 - 01:47 PM

It's all words, Richard. The Inkspots weren't really rhythm and blues, but they were probably the single greatest influence on rhythm and blues groups to follow, from the high tenor lead to the rumbling bass. The "Doo-wop" groups were all part of rhythm and blues through the 60's. I don't know who invented the term "Doo-Wop" but it was much after the fact. Most rhythm and blues groups also did "Jump tunes" which rocked out as much as Etta James. James Brown and Ike and Tina Turner seem to span the terms "rhythm and blues" and "soul music." In the 50's and 60's when I bought a lot of rhythm and blues, the groups were considered as much a part of the music as anyone else.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: PoppaGator
Date: 24 May 05 - 03:12 PM

Louis Jordan ~ yessss!

Perhaps a bit early for the "R&B" of the rock 'n' roll era, but definitely a major development leading to what came next, right along with vocal-harmony stuff like the Inkspots. Another name for the music typified by Jordan would, I think, be "jump blues." Wonderful happy music!

"Caledonia! Caledonia! What make yo' big head so hard?"

I'm sure that very few listeners (in the US, at least) realized that this fictional woman's name was the Latin word for Scotland!

(I'm also sure most of 'em were too busy jitterbugging to care...)

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 24 May 05 - 03:34 PM

That's the term, Poppa... Jump Blues. A lot of the early vocal groups would have a ballad on one side of the record and a Jump Blues on the other.

I may have to send you some of this Dawn Of DooWop stuff, Poppa.. mostly lesser-known groups I hadn't heard before.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: Azizi
Date: 25 May 05 - 08:44 AM

I also love old Rhythm and Blues.

And I remember hearing and seeing folks standing on street corners harmonizing. I miss that.

Incidently, PoppaGator, my mother has told me and my siblings how our paternal grandfather [who I don't remember at all] nicknamed my older sister 'Caldonia' and would sing

"Caledonia! Caledonia! What make yo' big head so hard?"

I didn't know that this was a Louis Jordan song. Actually I just became acquainted with Louis Jordan's music about 5 years ago when I took a chance and purchased his CD from a used record shop...
Of course in these days of free online music, it's easier to become acquainted with different musicians and vocalists...

One of Jordan's songs-"Beans And Cornbread"-was included in the soundtrack for the Spike Lee movie "Malcolm X".

****
Another early R&B singer that I feel deserves props is Hank Ballard. A lot of his songs live on, but I want to particularly mention his 1953 hit "Let's Go" Let's Go Let's Go {Thrill On The Hill}:

{guitar)

There's a thrill upon the hill
Let's go, let's a-go, let's go
There's a thrill upon the hill
Let's go, let's a-go, let's go

There's a house honey, way across town
People coming from miles around
Put on your pretty red dress
Let's go see about this mess
That's it, baby let's git
And go way far upon the hill

We're gonna have a whole lotta fun
We gonna greet the risin' sun
All night long we gonna ball
Until we hear yo mama call
That's it, baby let's git
And go way far upon the hill

There's a thrill upon the hill
Let's go, let's a-go, let's go
There's a thrill upon the hill
Let's go, let's a-go, let's go

Let's go!

(sax & instrumental)

Eee-yeah!
Everybody's gonna be there
My friends and yours from everywhere
Oh, what a time it's gonna be!
Come on baby, let's go see
That's it, baby let's git
And go way far upon the hill

There's a thrill upon the hill
Let's go, let's a-go, let's go

There's a thrill upon the hill
A-let's go, let's a-go, let's go.


FADES-


Source: www.lyred.com

-snip-

[I admit to having confused this song with Fat's Domino's "Blueberry Hill" {'I found my thrill on Blueberry Hill'}-and yes I know that these two songs are completely different. And BTW, much respect to Fats Domino!].

The Hank Ballard 'Thrill On The Hill' song was slightly adapted and used in the 1960s {and earlier?; and now?} as a chant for Westinghouse High School in Pittsburgh. Westinghouse High School happens to be located in the Homewood area and not in the Hill District of Pittsburgh. However, that school is named after George WestingHOUSE and it was a play on the word 'house' that led to this spirited chant:

"There's a House upon the hill.
Let's go. Let's go Let's go
There's a House upon the hill.
Let's go. Let's go. Let's go."

Two years ago I had the pleasure of attending a marching band competition, and as the Westinghouse band entered the area, a large contingent of the 'old school' folks in the stands stood up and cheered on the young musicians, majorettes, and members of the color guard with that song.

I loved it!


Azizi

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 May 05 - 09:31 AM

Hank Ballard and the Midnighters have a special place in music history, as they were the first to record The Twist. It got as high as #28 on the Billboard top 40 list, but really didn't become the massive hit until Chubby Checker recorded it later and it became a phenomemon. In all, Hank Ballard had 7 top 40 hits (and many more on the R&B ratings. The highest ranked of those was Let's Go, Let's Go, Let's Go which peaked at #6 in 1960. It was #1 on the R&B charts for three weeks. Finger Poppin' Time was another big hit, peaking at #7.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: PoppaGator
Date: 25 May 05 - 03:51 PM

Hank Ballard's "The Twist" sounds almost exactly like Chubby Checker's later hit record; Chubby and his musicians obviously copied Hank and the Midnighters just as closely as they possibly could. Chubby's voice even sounds remarkably like Hank's.

As a white kid in suburban New Jersey in the late 50s'early 60s, The one and only Hank Ballard song I remember hearing on rock 'n' roll radio (WABC New York) was "Finger Poppin' Time." Boy, did I love that song! I know it was summertime when it was on the radio; I can still picture the girls in their bathing suits playing that song on the jukebox at the swimming pool.

And, oh yeah: it was Louis Jordan and the Tympani Five.

Subject: RE: Rhythm And Blues
From: fat B****rd
Date: 25 May 05 - 04:30 PM

Hey, Poppa G. Wher'yat ?
I love all the people mentioned above and would like to point out that Carl Hogan, Guitarist with Louis Jordan, was a big influence on Chuck Berry. No real reason, just thought I'd mention it.