BS: Two cultures divided by a common language

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: Splott Man
Date: 06 Jul 05 - 04:37 AM

If you like roundabouts, go to the Arc de Triomphe in Paris and watch the traffic - 12 roads converge on one guge roundabout. Or the 5 mini roundabouts in a circle in Swindon, a bit like a Sicilian Circle dance.

Sorry off topic there.

When I was in Bali, the local film processor was called Taticolor.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: An Englishman Abroad
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 11:10 PM

Thanks for a few gems folks.I am always on the lookout for new material.

I make good money speaking about the differences between the UK and the USA.

See my web site. www.AnEnglishmanAbroad.com and see what I mean.

all the best       John

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:38 AM

nawwww - you are both mistaken - one lane or multi-lane they are "rotaries" *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:36 AM

My apologies. I guess I am just too technical when it comes to roadway terminology. BTW, we Transportaion Engineers call a cloverleaf a cloverleaf.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 02:16 AM

Gnu - You said, "Roundabout = one lane. Traffic circle = two or more lanes. Generally."

In my neighborhood, the traffic circle is only one lane. In fact, most of the traffic circles in Vancouver are only one lane - one way. I thought round abouts occurred only on hiways.

I was in a round about in France that was 4 or 5 lanes and shaped in a cloverleaf - or was that a bad dream? It was really hard to change lanes and catch the right exit so you just kept going round and round at about 50 miles an hour (or so it seemed). I felt like I was inside a pinball game.

What do you call pinball in other places?

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: s&r
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 04:12 PM

In Nottingham nesh meant unduly worried about feeling cold - a person was nesh, not the weather

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 04:08 PM

I learned to drive a car in Calgary. There were NO traffic circles there at that time. Moved to Edmonton a year later. Ended up in a traffic circle and traffic was such that I couldn't get out for at least six times around the circle. Finally, I saw an opening and floored the car. Ended up out and going back the way I'd come. Was very exciting. Just thought I'd share that.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 04:08 PM

and then we have jughandles ( NJ)...


cloverleafs ( all over)...

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 04:02 PM

Roundabout = one lane. Traffic circle = two or more lanes. Generally.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 01:04 AM

A traffic circle. (and sometimes, a roundabout.)

~ Becky in Tucson, where there aren't any.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: GUEST,Shanghaiceltic
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 12:49 AM

Was up in northern China last week. Whilst we were out on the road we I noticed many of the road signs were also in English as well as Chinese.

I was intrigued to come up to a sign for a 'turning dish' it was a roundabout. BTW what is a roundabout in the US?

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 09:28 PM

I'm always being 'called' on my Americanisms and I live in Canada!

I have corrected most of the words but can't seem to get used to calling a sack a bag. In Canada its called a bag lunch. I call it a sack lunch. This always brings howls of laughter.

Recently I noticed that when a child is kidnapped it is called an abduction. When someone is abducted in Iraq, it is called a kidnapping. Who is responsible for this turn of terminology?

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 07:24 PM

I believe that a Japanese firm once launched a car called the Condom.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 07:12 PM

Found this on the internet;

As for the brand names at the bottom of the article I can also add another Japanese sports drink product I used to buy when I lived in Japan 'Pocari Sweat'

I'd rather have a bowl of... crack?
Con Doherty
Thursday 23 June 2005
Kellogg's might have made a slight error in their new product's name, writes Con Doherty


Kellogg's Coco Rocks: at least they didn't go with the name "Kellogg's Coco Methamphetamine Hydrochloride"You wouldn't normally put crack cocaine and breakfast food in the same basket. But thanks to a mix-up at cereal giant Kellogg's, the two have become synonymous.

The marketing monkeys behind the innocuous little chocolatey Kelloggs' Coco Pops thought they were on safe ground when they launched Coco Rocks, the exciting new jungle-inspired spin-off of the cereal. Unfortunately for them, they don't seem to have done their research among the highways, byways and alleyways of London's drug dens.

The new cereal brand launched in the UK earlier this year. But it has become an object of fun for drug-users and specialists. Coco Rocks to them means something very, very different - though, admittedly, it still has that nice chocolate overtone. The term is street slang for "dark brown crack cocaine made by adding chocolate pudding during production", according to the latest drugs guides available.

"You'd think people like Kelloggs would have teams of people checking new brand names out to see what they might mean," said a spokeswoman for leading drugs advice charity Drugscope, who's clearly been reading the same drugs guide as us. "Coco rocks is a term used to describe dark brown crack made by adding chocolate pudding during production. God knows why anyone would want to do that, but they do.

"It's logged in our library and has been around since at least 2003, so, I think Kelloggs might be getting a bit of a shock when they find out about it."

And indeed they did. Vicki Barton, a public relations spokeswoman for the cereal company, said the association was, "not funny - someone could lose their job over this."

The company was unwilling to answer any questions on the topic, including whether it would now consider a rebranding of the cereal, or whether it would examine the street drugs knowledge of its branding teams to find out whether there was any mischief behind the development of the new concept.

The company did however release a terse statement: "Kelloggs' Coco Pops Coco Rocks is a popular new cereal. The cereal contains chocolate-lined rock-shaped pillows [a technical term for a widened cereal flake shape]."


The dangers of double meanings
The Coco Rocks concept was initially launched outside the UK without mishap. But it follows in a long line of international brands which don't translate well to new markets. Like these that caught our fancy:

Spunk - Danish sweet bar
Zit Lemon-lime - Greek soft drink
Colon Plus Liquid - Spanish detergent
Polio - Czech detergent
Krapp - Swedish toilet paper
Homo Sausage Beef jerky - Japan
Mucos - Japanese soft drink
Pansy - Chinese men's underwear
Fockink - Dutch liqueur
Pshitt - French soft drink

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 04:37 AM

Nesh is just a Yorkshire dialect word for ' cold ' ie. " it's a bit nesh outside "

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 07:42 PM

Well, centre is spelled incorrectly, isn't it? In French, it means the same thing as in English. So why, if the English pronunciation is actually center, should it not be changed? Let's forget the "c" for now. On the other hand, shouldn't we keep "metre" for the measure and "meter" for the measure of the measure? And.... oops... virtual memory is l...

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 07:24 PM

We know about pretzels now, thanks to George Bush's litle adventure with one. Any time he comes to visit they'll be on the menu...

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: Raedwulf
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 05:55 PM

For the sake of stirring it up a bit...

Noah Webster (1758-1843) is said to have been an Anglophobe. Whilst it may be true to say that he sought to standardize rather inconsistent spelling, it is also said that he showed a marked tendency to standardize away from from normal English spelling. Hence, center rather than centre; color for colour; & so on.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 06:38 PM

Like Yorkshire Yankee and the English/English topic, I'll refer you to this root beer (and other odd "sodas"/"pops"/"carbonated beverages") thread (among others) and point out that there are officially no new topics on the 'Cat!

;-)

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 12:42 PM

To my knowledge, anyway, there is in the United States only one--count 'em, one!--producer and bottler of real root beer. Everything else sold with that title is made with synthetic flavors.

About three years ago my Beautiful Wife and I attended the National Folk Festival in Lansing, Michigan, and this small family company had a booth. The guy who runs the little family company gave a nice talk about root beer, and his family's history of making it and marketing it.   He's the one that made the claim contained in my first paragraph.

Good stuff, too!

No, no low-cal, no-cal, or sugarless root beer. He said they had looked into it, and the stuff that resulted just didn't meet the traditional flavor, and they won't make it.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a common language
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 01:01 AM

Thanks, Bill D., Kantoa, gnu. You can get Dr. Brown's in California in some places, such as at a deli, but it's not too widespread here. Too bad, cause it's good stuff. I love that celery soda!

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 31 May 05 - 07:14 AM

I'm a Yank who's been living in the UK (yes, Yorkshire -- how did you guess?) for 7-8 years now, and I'm still running into unfamiliar words -- although not as often as I did when I first moved here.

"Stop" was one source of misunderstanding for me; at work one day, someone asked me if I was "stopping". It was after 5 pm, and I said yes, as I expected to stop working soon. However, his use of "stopping" meant "Are you staying late?" -- as in "stopping in" or "stopping by". I guess I should have said I'd only be stopping while a little while longer!

"Nesh" is a great Yorkshire word, used to describe someone who wears a jumper/sweater or coat when everyone else is in t-shirts (i.e. someone more susceptible to cold than most).

For those interested, the English to English Dictionary thread has many more examples, including a parody I wrote on the subject, titled Don't Know the Words... (for My Favo(u)rite Things).

Cheers!

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 05 - 05:16 AM

Cream soda is readily available here in New Brunswick, Canada. You can get the clear or the cherry.

Birch beer is long gone. Ginger ale : Schweppes (spg?), Schweppes Golden, Canada Dry, Sussex, Sussex Golden (Sussex Golden is not for the faint of taste buds - or heartburn).

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 May 05 - 02:35 AM

For those that have followed this thread (and enjoyed it) the UK book, Eats, Shoots and Leaves is a delightfuly entertaining dissertation on the varianaces in punctuation in the two cultures. Some good chuckles, well worth the 10pounds.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: GUEST,Kantoa
Date: 30 May 05 - 10:50 PM

Acually, here in NYC you can find birch beer, but I haven't found phosphates, which I did run into in rural Pennsylvania, near the Delaware River about 30 years ago.
Birch beer is similar to root beer, but is a little stronger in taste and has a very slight taste of wintergreen.
The real local favorites here in the Big Apple are Doctor Brown's Celray Tonic, yep celery soda, and a very nice coffee soda, I think called Manhattan. Dr. Brown also makes cream soda. Is that a regional soda also? I know Boston is known for "Moxie" a brown soda which you have to be born in New England to enjoy.
What the heck, we were college students back then and not very worldly; we thought everybody had the same tastes as we did.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Bill D
Date: 30 May 05 - 05:15 PM

You run into Birch Beer and such about as often as you find phosphate drinks (as opposed to carbonated). I have seen it bottled a few times at specailty stores, but it never seems to catch on, except in certain areas where it has had a dedicated local following for years

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 30 May 05 - 03:53 PM

I hadn't known of Birch Beer myself. Makes me wonder if it's a regional difference? I'm in California. Is it like Sarsaparilla?

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: GUEST,Kantoa
Date: 30 May 05 - 01:38 PM

I had the opportunity to tour part of Europe in 1972 with my university choral program. While in England a few of up stopped at a "Real English Pub". I volunteered to go up for drinks.
The following coversation ensued:
Me:I'd like four root beers.
Bartender: Silence followed by a look.
Me:Explanation of what is a root beer
Bartender: We don't have it.
Returned to table Got other orders.
Me: Two cokes and two birch beers
Bartender: "ere's yer two cokes. What'er birch beers?
Me: Explaination of the birch beer. Returned to the table with the two cokes with one tiny piece of ice in each glass. Got more orders.
Me: Another coke and a sloe gin fizz.
Bartender: 'ere's yer coke. Gin fizz?
Me: Returned to the group, got another order.
Me: How about an ale?
Baterned: Sure here it is
Me: You got any pretzels to go with that?
Bartender: You Yanks like some strange sounding drinks.
Note there was an American at the bar on a barstool who almost fell off his seat listening to this exchange.
Notes for the uncertain: Birch beer and root beer are now soft drinks They were originally made by fermenting the root of the Sassafras tree in water sweetener and yeast, sweetening the result. Birch bear is similar. They taste of herbs.
Pretzels are twisted dry (or in Philly, or NYC where they are sold as a street snack-big and soft)breadstcks with coarse salt on the surface.
Next: Biscuit? Cookie?

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 30 May 05 - 04:58 AM

I was told by a friend from Ireland that if you say "Do you want to go for a ride?" it's something very different than Americans mean it! "Do you want a lift?" would be the way to say it there.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 29 May 05 - 10:41 PM

Tonight, my wife scarffed down a wedge. Or was it a hoagie? Or a Hero? Or a submarine? Or a grinder? They're all the same. It was a Philly Steak wedge.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 05 - 10:10 PM

Bierce: "The Devil's Dictionary".

http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 05 - 10:07 PM

"The great American dictionary maker (whose name is celebrated in the titles of numberless dictionaries to this day) was Nathaniel (?) Webster."

Noah.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 May 05 - 05:22 AM

Spot on Boab.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Boab
Date: 29 May 05 - 02:54 AM

--Eric the Red---Ah ken whit a "whittrick" is, but yer "futtret"'s got me dumfooner't. Guess--an Aiberdeen ferret?

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 May 05 - 10:42 PM

Bunnahabhain:

The great American dictionary maker (whose name is celebrated in the titles of numberless dictionaries to this day) was Nathaniel (?) Webster.

He did his work, I believe, in the early 1800s (1805 or so?). He did have national identity in his mind as he created his dictionary, but was genuinely trying to regularize spelling conventions. Like his great English predecessor, Dr. Samuel Johnson, he was not above impressing his personal foibles and prejudices upon the work.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: gnu
Date: 28 May 05 - 08:40 PM

UK - May I help you?

US - What the fuck are you lookin at?

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 28 May 05 - 08:35 PM

UK boot
US trunk

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 May 05 - 12:51 PM

HuwG, I realize it was just a slip of the finger - but you have windshield and windscreen backward.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 May 05 - 09:52 AM

America                         England
Mr President                     Seriously derranged git


eric

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: HuwG
Date: 28 May 05 - 07:39 AM

Something that GUEST,Bunnahabhain, via back door wrote earlier in this thread ...



Embarque, and Disenbarque, surely?


Now, I'd always spelled it, "embark" and disembark. That got me thinking, is there, "embrig", "emyacht", "emketch", and so on for all varieties of tall ship rig and construction ?

Apparently, "embark" (correct spelling, I hope) comes from the french embarquer, make a voyage aboard a sailing vessel, which in turn comes from the latin barca a sailing ship.

(Somebody with more nautical knowledge will probably be able to enlighten me as to how "barque" came to refer specifically to square-rigged sailing vessels with fore-and-aft rig on the mizzen mast.)

Im military usage only, I have met "embus" and "debus" (referring to lorries or armoured personnel carriers), and "emplane" and "deplane" referring to aircraft. I note that the latter usage is never met in the airline industry; they always use "board" and "leave the aircraft".

I don't know why the military make such jargon standard speech (to the extent that Senior NCO's pretended to look baffled when told, "Get on the 4-tonners", and then made a great show of enlightenment when told to "embus"). I recall an exercise where someone had used much initiative and was using a van with sliding side doors to demonstrate the drills for getting on and off a Lynx helicopter. One annoying character kept refusing to emplane, "Er, it's a Honda Acti, sir", or embus. "F***ing get on!" plus a well-applied boot, did the trick.


****

When the "stinger", an extendable spiked strip which punctured the tyres of cars driven by people fleeing the Law, was first used in the UK, the instruction manual said, "Deploy across pavement ..." After a few unsuccessful attempts to apprehend criminals this way, it was realised that this meant, "Deploy across road ,,,"


In the aftermath of a coup in Africa, a journalist noticed that scowling troops stopped all the cars on a main road, ordered the passengers to get out and then told them to remove their hats and shoes. They inspected these, and then handed them back. The hack asked why they were doing this. The Corporal in charge said, "We got orders to stop all cars, and inspect all bonnets and boots". The hack explained that this was officer-speak for "trunks and hoods".


Some other vehicle parts which differ over the Atlantic:

      UK               US
  
    bumper           fender
   [panel beaters]  [body and fender shop]
    windshield       windscreen
    silencer         muffler
  

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 28 May 05 - 07:18 AM

Wasn't there an American, just post independence, who promoted lots of alternative forms and spellings, to help differentiate between the old and new countries? I can't remember who it was, but either they succeeded to some extent, or they were fameous for something else.....

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 05 - 04:01 AM

Anybody planning a holiday hanging round The Broads?

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Gurney
Date: 28 May 05 - 03:15 AM

I've realised that I've been using two spellings. If it's a computer program, I spell it like that, and if it's theatre, (theater) I spell it programme, as it should be. *Grin.*

I'm never going to spell common with one M, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 May 05 - 02:59 AM

Hey Boab, what's a futtret ?

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Boab
Date: 28 May 05 - 01:33 AM

"aluminum", "cadmum" "strontum", "uranum", "barum"; none of them got like that 'cuz some American official just couldn't spell----did they???
Och! We Scots cannae criticise; we're the bunch who call liquorice "alicreesh"!

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: LadyJean
Date: 27 May 05 - 11:50 PM

Two students from different parts of the U.S. were sitting in a hallway at Ohio University, just a few feet away from me, some 30 years ago. Knowing that they were facing a long wait the male asked, "Want to play hangman?"
The girl answered, "I don't know how to play hangman, but I'll play hang the butcher with you." Then she drew a series of lines in her notebook for the letters, and a stick figure gallows for the rather macabre guessing game that is called hangman in some states and hang the butcher in others.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: mandoleer
Date: 27 May 05 - 07:21 PM

How about toad in the hole for another bit of food?
You can get language problems within very short distances. I told a girlfriend from near Wigan the Liverpool joke about the moggie sitting outside the Mersey Tunnel saying, 'No matter how big yez are, I'll get yez when yer come out!' She looked blank. I thought for a moment, and asked her what was sitting outside the tunnel. Her reply was 'a mouse', which I had just remembered is the meaning of moggie in the Wigan area. In Liverpool, about 20 miles away, it's a cat.
And then they had to change all the notices on the new automatic level crossings on the railways in the UK, because someone from the south had worded them. 'Wait while lights flash' was OK to a southerner, and meant if the lights were flashing you should stay put. However, in the North (especially in Yorkshire), it meant wait if the lights weren't flashing, and to go when they did. Woops!

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: robomatic
Date: 27 May 05 - 04:37 PM

I used to notice the English misuse of the definite article, i.e. leaving it out when we use it and the other way round.

Then I took several years of Russian, a language I adore.

Russians have NO definite article whatsoever. They manage just fine without it.

So I've become liberal. The English can jolly well do what suits 'em.

HOWEVER. I had a nightmare not long ago where I was organizing an alternative music library of my favorite CDs for a Russian student radio station. I was trying to explain to the bright eyed young russki studyenti the group "The The" and I was at a loss for words!

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Raedwulf
Date: 27 May 05 - 04:11 PM

For those wondering about "the", in English usage remember, as Eric says, it is the definite article. 'Going to the hospital' implies that there is only one hospital. In general, English usage will either use 'going to hospital' ('going to a hospital somewhere'), or 'going to the local hospital' (there is only one local hospital, you'll know which one it is).

Similarly, 'going to Uni' is non-specific - someone is going to a university somewhere. 'Going to the University' (notice the difference in capitalisation) implies that the listener knows which "The..." is referred to , given that there are many universities.

'Going to jail' works in exactly the same way - 'going to be imprisoned in a jail somewhere'. 'Going to the jail' implies knowledge of which jail you're headed for.

Subject: RE: BS: Two cultures divided by a comon language
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 27 May 05 - 01:33 PM

GUEST Bunnabhain (sp?) said:

Where does the difference between a spoken dialect (as per bev and gerry, and GUEST, padget, above), and a written one become important?

Quite often a spoken dialect has almost no existence in writing. Instead, dialect speakers use the "official" dialect (e.g. High German) to write things.

Then along comes a writer who revolutionizes the culture by actually writing his poetry, novel, etc. in his native dialect. Think Dante Alighieri, in The Divine Comedy, which is credited with establishing Italian as a "real" language rather than just a vulgate Latin.

Dave Oesterreich