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BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?

Richard Bridge 02 Jun 05 - 02:19 PM
Once Famous 02 Jun 05 - 03:35 PM
CarolC 02 Jun 05 - 03:47 PM
Once Famous 02 Jun 05 - 03:49 PM
GUEST,Sleepless Dad 02 Jun 05 - 04:11 PM
CarolC 02 Jun 05 - 04:38 PM
Donuel 02 Jun 05 - 05:25 PM
Once Famous 02 Jun 05 - 05:29 PM
Don Firth 02 Jun 05 - 06:53 PM
The Fooles Troupe 02 Jun 05 - 07:34 PM
Bunnahabhain 02 Jun 05 - 07:54 PM
The Fooles Troupe 02 Jun 05 - 08:02 PM
Once Famous 02 Jun 05 - 09:56 PM
Once Famous 02 Jun 05 - 10:01 PM
Once Famous 02 Jun 05 - 10:02 PM
Once Famous 02 Jun 05 - 10:07 PM
Bobert 02 Jun 05 - 10:10 PM
Once Famous 02 Jun 05 - 10:14 PM
GUEST 03 Jun 05 - 11:45 AM
Once Famous 03 Jun 05 - 12:29 PM
George Papavgeris 03 Jun 05 - 12:45 PM
Once Famous 03 Jun 05 - 12:47 PM
George Papavgeris 03 Jun 05 - 01:02 PM
George Papavgeris 03 Jun 05 - 01:03 PM
GUEST,Casual Observer 03 Jun 05 - 01:30 PM
Ebbie 03 Jun 05 - 01:59 PM
The Fooles Troupe 03 Jun 05 - 08:18 PM
Bunnahabhain 04 Jun 05 - 04:12 AM
dianavan 04 Jun 05 - 04:36 AM
Dave Hanson 04 Jun 05 - 04:59 AM
The Fooles Troupe 04 Jun 05 - 09:37 AM
DougR 04 Jun 05 - 11:41 AM
Amos 04 Jun 05 - 12:03 PM
Once Famous 04 Jun 05 - 12:21 PM
Amos 04 Jun 05 - 12:28 PM
jpk 04 Jun 05 - 04:47 PM
jpk 04 Jun 05 - 04:51 PM
GUEST,Casual Observer 04 Jun 05 - 05:10 PM
George Papavgeris 04 Jun 05 - 05:35 PM
GUEST 04 Jun 05 - 06:13 PM
Once Famous 05 Jun 05 - 01:27 PM
GUEST,Casual Observer 05 Jun 05 - 02:07 PM
GUEST,Sleepless Dad 05 Jun 05 - 02:57 PM
dianavan 05 Jun 05 - 03:15 PM
Don Firth 05 Jun 05 - 03:50 PM
DougR 05 Jun 05 - 04:13 PM
Jeri 05 Jun 05 - 04:37 PM
CarolC 05 Jun 05 - 05:12 PM
Once Famous 05 Jun 05 - 08:43 PM
GUEST,Sleepless Dad 05 Jun 05 - 08:47 PM
Once Famous 05 Jun 05 - 08:50 PM
GUEST,Sleepless Dad 05 Jun 05 - 08:53 PM
GUEST 05 Jun 05 - 08:57 PM
CarolC 05 Jun 05 - 09:01 PM
GUEST,Sleepless Dad 05 Jun 05 - 09:06 PM
GUEST 06 Jun 05 - 12:18 AM
dianavan 06 Jun 05 - 12:24 AM
JohnInKansas 06 Jun 05 - 03:08 AM
George Papavgeris 06 Jun 05 - 04:11 AM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Jun 05 - 09:08 AM

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Subject: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 02:19 PM

This article from the site of a very respectable English law firm.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 03:35 PM

who cares? butt out, Bridge. Your country has way more problems than here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 03:47 PM

Speaking as someone who greatly values and is grateful for the Constitution of the United States, who is dedicated to protecting and defending it (the Constition), who believes that the Constution is the most "American" thing about America and is what makes us a nation, and who is in agreement with the Supreme Court of the United States that the "Patriot Act" is unconstitutional, I thank you for providing that link, Richard Bridge.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 03:49 PM

Well, who's the fine lawyer who's going to get rid of it. And how much does he charge per hour?


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 04:11 PM

Please Martin. The folks here are trying to have an adult conversation. You just wouldn't fit in. Run along and be a good little boy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 04:38 PM

( ...now if I could only learn how to correctly spell "constitution" three times in a row)

;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 05:25 PM

Outrage is building.

My niece formerly from Kodiak Alaska and now the Hawaian Islands wrote an angry letter to the TSA. She found a note saying that her bag had been searched before it was put onboard her plane. In her bag were sealed tax documents and private mail - all of which had been torn open. SS numbers and everything else could now very well be databased beyond her control.

I said hurray for you. Every complaint or phone call can be be interpolated as 1,000 letters or phone calls of similar opinion.
Everyone has to take their own respondsibility to obeject and dissent.

My wife warned that they can arrest arrest you for nothing nowadays and to be careful what you say if you do complain.

I say forget the fear factor. No one really has civil rights until they can be addressed in court anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 05:29 PM

Thanks to sleepless dad, I have decied to ruin this thread.

It is his type of attitude that makes him a moron.

Pow!


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 06:53 PM

(You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch!)

The Patriot Act ran to about 700 pages, and was given to Congress only a few hours before the vote was called, so most of our representatives had only the slightest idea of what was in it. I understand from a Congressional Representative of my acquaintance that one of the reasons that a 700 page bill got submitted so quickly was that it was merely a rehash of the infamous, McCarran Act, of 1951, which gave Sen. Joe McCarthy his power and authority. Most of it is the same wording, with "communist" crossed out and "terrorist" inserted.

The Patriot Act isunconstitutional. It is a manifesto for totalitarianism.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 07:34 PM

Martin - you try to ruin every thread your selfish little narrow minded personality doesn't understand, and many that you fear will led to a free and educational discussion of concepts that you wish to supress, mainly due to fear of loss of your childish desire for 'control' of the world.

I am now convinced that you are a Bush plant (heh heh!) trying to suppress and intimidate those not 'toeing the party line'. You are the reincarnation of Joe McCarthy.

Cue the MG abusive profanity track...


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 07:54 PM

Under normal circstances, and with a normal bill, this would be an interesting debate on who should make laws, judges, or politicians. However, as these are rather strange times, and a bill that is very far reaching, and is dangerous to the haelth of the US, my reaction is about the same as it is to EU constitution, ie kill it, kill it again until it is dead and jump up and down on it in crampons.

Martin has become somewhat tiresome recently. Is he taking his medicine?


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 08:02 PM

No.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 09:56 PM

The Patriot Act was just found to be not be Unconstitutional.

Just heard it on the news.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 10:01 PM

Made you look!


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 10:02 PM

Correction

The Patriot Act is constitutional.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 10:07 PM

Go Cubs!


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 10:10 PM

Ya know what scares me the most about the Patriot Act??? Well, it was written by a bunch of folks who campained all throughout the south on themes of too much government in "your life"... Yeah, these are the folks who prreach and campaign about the excesses of governemnt but when you turn yer back on them for one minute they find yet another way 1984 ya'...

Like what's that all about???

And then ya' go down in Red-States-Land an' talm to folks about 1984 and they say, "Huh, excuse me but can't ya see that I'm watching NASCAR?"

And speakin' of NASCAR. We got 24 hour NASCAR stuff going on on our cable service. Yup, no matter what time, day 'er night, you can tune into cars going round, and round, and round... Oh, how exciting...

Meanwhile back at the Crawford, Texas ranch, anti-big-brother-bush is cookin' up yet another scheme to invade yer' danged privacy...

Like I said, go figure????

But don't miss one danged lap of that Haliburton/Enron/Harkin Energy 500, gol dang it...

Round and round and round and round and round.... Like a danged hypnotists watch....

Oh, and don't firget to vote agsainst them liberals who wanta kill off yer babies....

Round and round and round and round and............

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 10:14 PM

Go Cubs!

I would think Nascar is watched big time in trailer courts all throughout Alabama.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 11:45 AM

Soon anyone appealing on the grounds that the Patriot Act is unconstitutional won't have much recourse after Bush stacks the Supreme Court with conservative judges.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 12:29 PM

Good. Then we can get back to having a society that is not sinking any further into the cesspool that judges like Ginsburg have promoted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 12:45 PM

You have to admit it's funny. Usually MG is the one who "ulls people's bells" to watch them react. But I guess with this thread Richard unwittingly pulled MG's bell.

Or was it intentional now? If so, well done!


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 12:47 PM

He didn't pull my bell. Never does. He's just a scumbag lawyer, that's all.

I certainly don't feel threatened by the Patriot Act. You must, however.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 01:02 PM

2 minutes to respond - bell well and truly pulled, I'd say MG, come on, admit it, you're amongst friends acquaintances.

As for the Patriot Act threatening me - it never occured to me, why should it? Perhaps in the general sense of the world going paranoid, but no more than that. I have a pimple on my arse that worries me more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 01:03 PM

'S OK - I was sitting on the wife's knitting needles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 01:30 PM

If Martin Gibson had lived in Germany in the 1930s, he would have been the same kind of hard-charging, narrow-minded "patriot" then and there that he is here and now. And he would be completely flabbergasted, horrified, and surprised—and still not getting it—when the storm troopers pounded on his door to take him and his family off to a concentration camp.

Some people don't have the necessary brain cells to see the obvious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 01:59 PM

Go, Cuba!


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 08:18 PM

many Jews refused to leave Germany cause that had served in the Army in WW I. Didn't help them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 04:12 AM

Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Schiller


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 04:36 AM

The constitution protects the right to privacy. The Patriot Act leaves you with less privacy than before. It practically guts the Bill of Rights or do you still have those?


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 04:59 AM

Every message board needs a Martin Gibson, to make cretins appear normal.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 09:37 AM

God must love them - he made so many.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: DougR
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 11:41 AM

It's interesting to me that so many folks have so little substantive to say on the subject, they use most of the thread berating a fellow Mudcatter. Go figure.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 12:03 PM

Doug:

Martin inherits the fruit of his own labors; no-one on the Cat has a longer record of hateful and abusive posts than he does. Go figger.

The Patriot Act compromises the Constitutional protections which we all enjoyed up tot his point in our lives as American citizens. Patriot II is even worse. Here's a partial analysis of P-2's encroachments.

And here is a dissertation on those of P-1.

The men who wrote the Patriot Act had no concept of the boundaries imposed on them by the Constitution, and made free wtih it in underhanded ways; it was passed without inspection because it was intentionally submitted at a time that prevented most Senators from reading it before voting. It is a disgusting piece of legislation.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 12:21 PM

No Mudcatter has ever before told others how completely full of shit they were either with such honest, bluntful, truthfulness, Amos.

That's what shocks yours and others here, Amos.

The liberal only party is over.

Others are now seeing this little by little, and joining in the fun in letting goons like you that this is not just YOUR forum for your anti-American, anti-family, anti-religion ideas.

Those days are over, and I get PLENTY of pms thanking me for leading the way with letting some of the moron psuedo-intellectual radical left-wing nuts know it.

Go figger? Learn to spell and carry on a conversation instead of spelling( not typos) like a moron who is butchering the language.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 12:28 PM

You are simply lying, Martin. Sure, you probably don't notice it; perhaps it's actually paranoid delusion, and your innate sense of truth has been swamped by the confusions of your misspent youth.

Your honest truthfulness is neither honest nor truthful.

It is abusive, distorted, filled with hate and subliterate. No truth there.

Go figger yourself.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: jpk
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 04:47 PM

you don't feel threatend by the patriot act,marty.that sounds kind of like what the jews were saying in germany,just before the brown shirts came to pay there respects.have a nice day marty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: jpk
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 04:51 PM

btw.how much of your freedom(that you never fought for) are you willing to give up for your false feeling of security,marty   MGB


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 05:10 PM

Fasten your seat belt, Martin Gibson. You spend so much time alternating between keeping your head in the toilet and throwing abuse and obscenities at people you disagree with that you don't see what's going on in the REAL world.

The Bush administration is screwing up so monumentally on so many fronts that there is going to be one hell of a LIBERAL backlash in this country. It will quite possibly indicating its presence in the coming mid-term congressional election, and it will definitely make itself felt in the next presidential election. I hope you like crow, because you're going to be eating a lot of it soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 05:35 PM

I think this fits here, although it wasn't written with this in mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 06:13 PM

"From: Martin Gibson
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 12:21 PM "


ROFL!!!! That's a riot of a post. The best yet in fact. Delusional, insane and just plain funny in it's total obsurdity.

WARING: if you are one of the people that sends martin gibson pm's with your support for his 'End the Mudcat Crusade'
YOU NEED HELP, A LOT OF HELP.

LMAO

"Others are now seeing this little by little, and joining in the fun in letting goons like you that this is not just YOUR forum for your anti-American, anti-family, anti-religion ideas.

Those days are over, and I get PLENTY of pms thanking me for leading the way with letting some of the moron psuedo-intellectual radical left-wing nuts know it.

Go figger? Learn to spell and carry on a conversation instead of spelling( not typos) like a moron who is butchering the language."

WHAT A STUNNING PIECE OF EGO OUT OF CONTROL!
10 OUT OF 10 FOR SHEER STUPIDITY THOUGH. LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 01:27 PM

Yep, and I still mean it and you know it, pal.

This post above is by one of the most angry of the morons here:

Amos
bobert
jpk
Ron "panties" Davies

I've been tipped off that these are the ones posting the most Guest shit against me.

No balls at all
No balls at all
A very small pecker and
No balls at all

Everyone knows that you are Mudcat's biggest and angriest phonys!


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 02:07 PM

Mudcat's biggest and angriest phony is obvious to all! Martin Gibson!

By the way, Martin, that's spelled "pnonies," not "phonys." Another example of your abysmal ignorance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 02:57 PM

Martin sez..

"I get PLENTY of pms thanking me for leading the way with letting some of the moron psuedo-intellectual radical left-wing nuts know it."

Isn't it interesting that none of these so called supporters are willing to back you up in the threads ? Hmmmmm.................

"The Silent Nonexistent Minority"

Where are they Martin ?? Where are they ? All in your mind ? Whats left of it ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 03:15 PM

Most people who get PM's don't usually talk about it on a thread. Thats why its called personal. Its easy to see whose comments are supported and who's comments are either disputed or ignored. A PM from someone who won't support you publicly means nothing at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 03:50 PM

[Posted first on another thread, but relevant here and on many

Considering the number of threads that start out as this one did, discussing a subject that supporters of the Bush administration would rather people not discuss, it may very well be that Martin Gibson is receiving PMs encouraging him to do what he does.

And what is it that he does? He jumps into a discussion, but not with any rational arguments; he just slings insults and abuse at those who have something reasonable to say, diverting attention from the subject to himself. And unfortunately, people fall for it when they could be—and should be—ignoring him and continuing the discussion. Rather than doing so, they spend their efforts slagging Martin Gibson, who doesn't really care because he's accomplished his purpose. He's ended any serious discussion on the subject.

It's quite possible that other people do PM him and encourage him to do this. As someone said on another thread, Martin Gibson is their performing monkey. Or to change the analogy, they encourage him, and he volunteers to become a red herring.

I suppose it's futile to tell people that the way to defeat him (and his puppeteers) totally is to simply ignore him.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: DougR
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 04:13 PM

Casual Observer: your post of 5:10 PM, June 4: funny, I heard those same predictions prior to the election in the U. S. last November. Didn't happen then, I doubt it happens in '06.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 04:37 PM

I'm willing to bet huge sums of money that a conservative president won't get elected in '06. Any takers?


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 05:12 PM

I think you give your opponents way too much credit for stupidity, Don. I put this on the other thread as well...

He's just an easy way for some people to have a good laugh at his expense. If people really wanted to shut up the political opposition, they surely wouldn't be using someone like Martoon. He keeps threads going way beyond their natural lifespan, and it's so easy to discredit pretty much everything he says. I think if anyone was really using him to make the other side look bad, it would be the people who disagree with his views, not the other way around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 08:43 PM

I don't ever say who the pms are from, dianavan. Just that they are there and some here get a real kick out of how idiotic you look and how much they have have enjoyed certain threads I particpate in.

I have no intention of rvealing the IDs of those friends and supporters here. That's what privacy is all about.

But it means a lot to me that you usual goons who have been howling for months and months here on Mudcat know that there are more here than you think that silently have agreed with me how full of crap you, CarolC, stupid Guests like Casual Observer and other Guests who everybody has speculated to me who they obviously are.

You will just have to realize that I get constantly recharged from these confidonts and will continue to say what I think to watch you tap dance and continue to howl, and howl, and howl, and howl.

Like I said in other thread, it's really no big deal to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 08:47 PM

You're full of it Martin. They don't exist. IF they did they would support you. The only thing supporting you is your control top pantyhose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 08:50 PM

They are here alright.

On my grandmother's grave, they are here.

Pantyhose? I thought you borrowed Ron Davies' with the cotton panel.

Keep stalking me, Sleepless Dad. You lost your cookie it appears, if you ever had one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 08:53 PM

No, I never had one. I am just a regular here at Mudcat who signs out to ridicule you because I do not have the teswticles to do it under my regular posting name.

You probably do have a group of supporters here because Mudcat has changed and we are losing credibility here as the old group that we once were.

I admit that I like my pantyhose also with cotton panels as I become chafed easily in that region when there is no air for my tender skin. However, the cost of pantyhose is so high that it is one of many things that I lose sleep over, the other being my weight problem and the fact that I constantly have a pillpw full of my own drool.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 08:57 PM

Uncle Henry, is that you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 09:01 PM

I'm sure they exist, and Martoon is their performing monkey. We're all laughing at Martin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 09:06 PM

Pretending to be me again Martin ?? I'm flattered.


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 12:18 AM

In the link Amos provided, there was an interesting quote:

The proposed law "would...even seek to take American citizenship away from persons who belong to or support disfavored political groups," Cole said.

Which 'disfavored political groups,' I wonder. The Green Party? The Democratic Party, perhaps?


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 12:24 AM

Thats unbelievable! What is a disfavored political group and who decides who is no longer favourable?


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 03:08 AM

re: disfavored political groups

I frankly don't know what current policy is, but ca. 1957 and for at least 25 years thereafter, anyone applying for a security clearance to handle classified or otherwise sensitive material was required to declare whether they had ever been a member of any of a long list of organizations listed on a standard form. A separate question asked if the person had ever attended any meetings, or associated regularly with "persons who might have been members," of essentially the same list of organizations. The list remained pretty much the same for most of that time, although there were some minor changes. I suspect the new list is somewhat different.

A separate questions asked for a list of all organizations the person had ever belonged to just in case they forgot one, or the person knew it by some other name...

If you answered yes to having attended/associated, the form had a short space where you were to "explain the circumstances," and for many purposes that was sufficient unless it was for a special clearance of some sort. There was a similar blank to explain a "membership," and it would depend on the investigating agency whether the explanation would be acceptable or whether a "personal interview" would be required. If a "personal interview" was required, questions would definitely NOT be restricted to explaining the "deviant entry," and could become quite invasive.

Since handling such information is a "position of trust" there is/was some rationale for the questions, but the PA appears to allow prosecution/persecution of anyone based on the suspicion of an unconfirmed "association." Hoover was a master at this, as was McCarthy, but usually even they didn't cross over to completely denying all of a person's civil rights until/unless they at least issued a subpoena. ...or did they?

(Members of Congress were/are NOT REQUIRED to have security clearance to have access to material the rest of us can't - and perhaps shouldn't - see, and generally can't be held criminally liable for blabbing it whenever it suits their personal political ends - no matter how much "aid and comfort" our "enemies" might gain. Their aides and employees though ....???)

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 04:11 AM

Land of the free?
Hmmm...


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Subject: RE: BS: Patriot Act unconstitutional?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 09:08 AM

"Like I said in other thread, it's really no big deal to me."

Of course it is, that's why he never shuts up - he NEEDS to abuse others - verbally at the moment, but are his children safe?


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Mudcat time: 1 April 11:45 AM EDT

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