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Subject: Lyr/Chords Add: ROLL, ALABAMA ROLL From: chico Date: 06 Jun 05 - 12:14 AM G D7 |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Roll, Alabama Roll (Chords) From: Abby Sale Date: 06 Jun 05 - 09:11 AM Good version. Any idea where it comes from? I notice the "omit" - do you know something about that verse that "delegitimizes" it? Do you know that there _were_ any British in the area who did save crewmen? I know that many French went to the coast to watch the fun from land (could they see three miles?) but hadn't heard this. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Roll, Alabama Roll (Chords) From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 06 Jun 05 - 02:36 PM Most of the crew were indeed saved by a british warship. Keith. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Roll, Alabama Roll (Chords) From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 06 Jun 05 - 03:01 PM Correction. Survivors including Semmes rescued by English yacht, deerhound. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: ROLL, ALABAMA ROLL (from Schooner Fare) From: Rapparee Date: 06 Jun 05 - 03:03 PM This is from Schooner Fare's website; the song is on their "Schooner Fare -- Alive!" album. (Sorry, I don't have the chords 'cause I play trumpet.) ROLL, ALABAMA, ROLL Trad. Arr. Schooner Fare We borrowed this old halyard chantey from the collection of the great Bill Bonyun from Westport Island, Maine, and added a little Stephen Foster, and a dash of John Jameson. This great sing-a-long recounts the demise of the British-built Alabama during the American Civil War at the hands of the Maine-built Kearsarge in the English Channel. When the Alabama's keel was laid; Roll, Alabama, roll. It was laid in the yard of Jonathan Laird. Oh, roll, Alabama, roll. Down the Mersey ways she rolled then Roll, Alabama, roll. Liverpool fitted her with guns and men. Oh, roll, Alabama, roll. Oh, Susannah, don't you cry for me; I still sail the Alabama with my banjo on my knee. From the Eastern Isles she sailed forth; Roll, Alabama, roll. To destroy the commerce of the North. Oh, roll, Alabama, roll. And many a sailor saw his doom. Roll, Alabama, roll. As the Kearsarge hoved into view. Oh, roll, Alabama, roll. Chorus A ball from the forward pivot that day; Roll, Alabama, roll. Shot the Alabama's stern away. Oh, roll, Alabama, roll. Off the three mile limit in sixty-four. Roll, Alabama, roll. The Alabama was seen no more. Oh, roll, Alabama, roll. Chorus Roll, Alabama, roll. Oh, roll, Alabama, roll. Chorus Off the three mile limit in sixty-four. Roll, Alabama, roll. The Alabama was seen no more. Oh, roll, Alabama, roll. And the captain promised to his men Roll, Alabama, roll. That like the South, she'd rise again. Oh, roll, Alabama, roll. Chorus Chorus Roll, Alabama, roll. Roll, Alabama, roll. Oh, roll, Alabama, roll. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Roll, Alabama Roll (Chords) From: Lighter Date: 14 Sep 05 - 09:55 PM Chico, you never told us where your version came from. Colcord, _Songs of American Sailormen_ (1938) gives three stanzas only. Hugill, whose source told him in 1925 that she was the widow of a member of _Alabama's_ crew, offers nine. Doerflinger's shantyman, Dick Maitland, sang a version that was mostly improvised and unrhymed. Does anyone know anything about the authenticity of Bill Bonyun's version ? He learned a number of shanties in the 1950s (?) from a former Anglo-American seaman named Garfield, I believe, but I don't know if "Roll Alabama, Roll" was one of them. I don't know of any other "field collected" versions. Does anybody ? |
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Subject: RE: ADD Version: Roll, Alabama Roll (Chords) From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Aug 10 - 04:44 PM It would be nice to know the source of the lyrics in the first post. Are they historic, or are they the work of a recent songwriter? here's what the Traditional Ballad Index has to say about this song: Roll, Alabama, RollDESCRIPTION: The Alabama is built in Birkenhead by Jonathan Laird. After a long career of commerce-raiding, the Kearsarge catches her off Cherbourg and sinks herAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1925 KEYWORDS: shanty battle navy Civilwar HISTORICAL REFERENCES: May 15, 1862 - Launching of the C.S.S. Alabama June 19, 1864 - The Alabama sunk by the U.S.S. Kearsarge FOUND IN: US(MA) New Zealand REFERENCES (7 citations): Doerflinger, pp. 35-37, "The Alabama" (2 texts, 1 tune) Colcord, p. 65, "Roll, Alabama, Roll" (1 text, 1 tune) Hugill, p. 159, "Roll, Alabama, Roll!" (1 text, 1 tune) [AbEd, pp. 126-127] Scott-BoA, pp. 245-247, "Roll, Alabama, Roll" (1 text, 1 tune) Darling-NAS, pp. 350-351, "The Alabama" (1 text) Silber-CivWar, p. 70, "Roll, Alabama, Roll" (1 text, 1 tune) DT, ROLLALAB* Roud #4710 CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Roll the Cotton Down" (tune) Notes: When the Civil War began, the Confederates had neither navy, nor merchant fleet, nor significant shipbuilding capability; all rested in the hands of the North. Facing economic strangulation, the South explored every avenue to build a fleet. Early in the war, the British were willing to help the Confederates build a navy. One of the ships built for this purpose was the Alabama, a fast commerce-raider. Built by Jonathan Laird, Ltd. at Birkenhead near Liverpool, the Federals protested her building from first to last, but somehow the papers never quite came through in time. (Allan Nevins, The War for the Union: War Becomes Revolution 1862-1863, Scribners, 1960, pp. 266-267, describes how American Minister to Britain Charles Francis Adams kept bringing new details to the British government about the Alabama. The British government theoretically agreed to try to stop work on the ship, but the local customs inspectors ignored their instructions.) After the completion of the hull in 1862, the Alabama sailed for the Azores to pick up arms and her Captain, Raphael Semmes (brother of the Confederate General Paul Semmes, killed at Gettysburg). Over the next two years, the Alabama sank a total of 69 Union merchant vessels, formally valued at $6,547,609. Although she once ran the blockade to enter the Confederate port at Galveston, the Alabama was generally unable to stop at Confederate ports; when she needed repairs in 1864, she stopped at the French port of Cherbourg. An American got off word of her presence there, and the Kearsarge was waiting when the Alabama sailed. Soon after the Alabama crossed the three mile limit, the Kearsarge moved in; the Confederate ship sank some forty minutes later. Her crew was rescued by a British yacht. According to Fletcher Pratt, A Compact History of the United States Nacy, pp. 151-152, there wasn't much difference in actual fighting power between the Alabama and the Kearsarge. But the Kearsarge was a well-drilled ship with properly-trained gunners. Alabama, which constantly had to change bases, could never lay in an adequate supply of powder and shot, so her gunners were much less accurate. And Kearsarge had two very heavy 11-inch guns. As a result, Kearsarge was able to score many more damaging hits and destroy her opponent while taking very little damage. The Alabama was a great success, but few ships followed her. The Americans demands for reparation, known as the "Alabama Claims," caused the British to stop building ships for the Confederacy. (In fact the claims covered the damage done by eleven ships; the total bill was $19,021,000, largely due to the Alabama, the Shenandoah, $6,488,320; and the Florida, $3,698,609). The Americans were finally paid some $15.5 million in 1873. According to James P. Delgado, Lost Waships: An Archaeological Tour of War at Sea, Checkmark, 2001, p. 122, the wreck of the Alabama was found off Cherbourg in 1984, and some artifacts have been recovered.- RBW For a broadside on the same subject see LOCSinging, as112570, "The Sinking of the Pirate Alabama," J. Magee (Philadelphia), 1864; also hc00026b, "The Sinking of the Pirate Alabama"; cw103190, "Kearsarge and Alabama" attributed to Silas S. Steele, "Tune: 'Teddy the Tiler,' or 'Cannibal Islands.'" - BS File: Doe035
Roll, Alabama, RollDESCRIPTION: The Alabama is built in Birkenhead by Jonathan Laird. After a long career of commerce-raiding, the Kearsarge catches her off Cherbourg and sinks herAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1925 KEYWORDS: shanty battle navy Civilwar HISTORICAL REFERENCES: May 15, 1862 - Launching of the C.S.S. Alabama June 19, 1864 - The Alabama sunk by the U.S.S. Kearsarge FOUND IN: US(MA) New Zealand REFERENCES (10 citations): Doerflinger, pp. 35-37, "The Alabama" (2 texts, 1 tune) Colcord, p. 65, "Roll, Alabama, Roll" (1 text, 1 tune) Hugill, p. 159, "Roll, Alabama, Roll!" (1 text, 1 tune) [AbEd, pp. 126-127] Palmer-Sea 122, "Roll, Alabama, Roll" (1 text, 1 tune) Kinsey, pp. 122-123, "The Alabama" (1 text, 1 tune) Scott-BoA, pp. 245-247, "Roll, Alabama, Roll" (1 text, 1 tune) Darling-NAS, pp. 350-351, "The Alabama" (1 text) Silber-CivWarFull, pp. 252-253, "Roll, Alabama, Roll" (1 text, 1 tune) Silber-CivWarAbbr, p. 70, "Roll, Alabama, Roll" (1 text, 1 tune) DT, ROLLALAB* Roud #4710 CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Roll the Cotton Down" (tune) cf. "Mars Forevermore" (form) NOTES [926 words]: When the Civil War began, the Confederates had neither navy, nor merchant fleet, nor significant shipbuilding capability; all rested in the hands of the North. Facing economic strangulation, the South explored every avenue to build a fleet. And in their Navy Secretary Stephen Mallory they had perhaps the most creative of all Jefferson Davis's cabinet officers; it is probably not coincidence that Mallory was the only Confederate cabinet officer to serve for the entire existence of the Confederacy Early in the war, the British were willing to help the Confederates build a navy. One of the ships built for this purpose was the Alabama, a fast commerce-raider. Built by Jonathan Laird, Ltd. at Birkenhead near Liverpool, the Federals protested her building from first to last, but somehow the papers never quite came through in time. (Nevins, pp. 266-267, describes how American Minister to Britain Charles Francis Adams kept bringing new details to the British government about the Alabama. The British government theoretically agreed to try to stop work on the ship, but the local customs inspectors ignored their instructions. Stokesbury, p. 252, describes how Laird kept the whole thing quiet by simply calling the hull "No. 290.") After the completion of the hull in 1862, the Alabama sailed for the Azores to pick up arms and her Captain, Raphael Semmes (brother of the Confederate General Paul Semmes, killed at Gettysburg), who was the former commander of the raider Sumter and considered "the most distinguished fighter in the Confederate navy" (RandallDonald, p. 450). The crew reportedly "was mostly English and included very few Southerners" (RandallDonald, p. 450). Paine, p. 12, claims that the Alabama was, in terms of ships seized, the most successful commerce raider of all time; he credits her with destroying 55 ships and capturing ten more which were released on bond. McPherson, p. 547, credits her with 64 victories in her two year career. Jameson, p. 12, lists her tally as "sixty-five vessels and $10,000,000 worth of property." RandallDonald, pp. 450-451, lists her as having taken 62 merchant ships plus the larger navy vessel Hatteras. Catton simply says (p. 386) that she sank more than "threescore ships" while noting (p. 128) that one of her victims was the Alert, the ship in which R. H. Dana served his "Two Years Before the Mast." Boatner, p. 4, claims she took care of 69 ships. Although she once ran the blockade to enter the Confederate port at Galveston, the Alabama was generally unable to stop at Confederate ports; when she needed repairs in 1864, she stopped at the French port of Cherbourg. An American got off word of her presence there, and the Kearsarge was waiting when the Alabama sailed. Soon after the Alabama crossed the three mile limit, the Kearsarge moved in; the Confederate ship sank some forty minutes later. Her crew was rescued by a British yacht. According to Pratt, p. 151-152, there wasn't much difference in actual fighting power between the Alabama and the Kearsarge. (Paine, p. 12, lists Alabama with 6 32-pounders plus a 110-pounder and a 68-pounder; she could steam at 13 knots and carried a crew of 148. On p, 285, Paine lists Kearsarge as having two 11" pivot guns and 4 32-pounders; her crew was 160 and her speed 11 knots). But raw fighting power rarely settles battles. The Kearsarge was a well-drilled ship with properly-trained gunners. Alabama, which constantly had to change bases, could never lay in an adequate supply of powder and shot, so her gunners were much less accurate. Browne-BL, p. 584, declares "The firing of the Alabama was rapid and wild, getting better near the close; that of the Kearsarge was deliberate, accurate, and almost from the beginning productive of dismay, destruction, and death." Of course, Browne was the surgeon of the Kearsarge, so he was biased. But the assessment seems to be true. And Kearsarge had those two very heavy 11-inch guns. As a result, Kearsarge was able to score many more damaging hits and destroy her opponent while taking very little damage. Only three men on the Kearsarge were wounded (Browne-BL, p. 585). Both sides claimed that the other had fired after the Alabama ran up the white flag (Browne-BL, p. 586). But Alabama was already sinking, and only a few shots were fired. The Alabama was a great success, but few ships followed her. The Americans demands for reparation, known as the "Alabama Claims," caused the British to stop building ships for the Confederacy. In all the claims covered the damage done by eleven ships; the total bill was $19,021,000, largely due to the Alabama, the Shenandoah, $6,488,320; and the Florida, $3,698,609 (according to Boatner, p. 5). The Americans were finally paid in 1873. Boatner, p. 5, says the amount was $15.5 million, which figure is also quoted by Stokesbury, p. 252; Randall/Donald, which devotes half a dozen pages to the neutral tribunal which adjudicated the claims, says that the figure was $1,929,819 in gold; I suspect some of the discrepancy lies in conversion rates. According to Delgado, p. 122, the wreck of the Alabama was found off Cherbourg in 1984, and some artifacts have been recovered.- RBW For a broadside on the same subject see LOCSinging, as112570, "The Sinking of the Pirate Alabama," J. Magee (Philadelphia), 1864; also hc00026b, "The Sinking of the Pirate Alabama"; cw103190, "Kearsarge and Alabama" attributed to Silas S. Steele, "Tune: 'Teddy the Tiler,' or 'Cannibal Islands.'" - BS Bibliography
File: Doe035 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2020 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Charley Noble Date: 13 Aug 10 - 04:59 PM I'm not sure whether there was one source for our old friend Bill Bonyun's version of "The Alabama." He was certainly familiar with the three verses in Songs of American Sailormen by Joanna Colcord. On his recording Roll & Go, © 1962, it's actually Frank Warner who leads the song; it's probably Warner's version that Schooner Fare worked from. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: ADD Version: The Alabama (Doerflinger #1) From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:04 PM MMario posted the versions from Doerflinger in another thread. for comparison, they should probably also be posted here. Thread #54759 Message #849770 Posted By: MMario 18-Dec-02 - 03:28 PM Thread Name: Songs of the Sailor and Lumberman Subject: Add:The Alabama (1) THE ALABAMA (1) |
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Subject: ADD Version: The Alabama (Doerflinger #2) From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:05 PM Thread #54759 Message #849773 Posted By: MMario 18-Dec-02 - 03:29 PM Thread Name: Songs of the Sailor and Lumberman Subject: add: The Alabama (2) THE ALABAMA (2) |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Charley Noble Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:11 PM I always like the verse that Sara Grey and the Friends of Fiddlers Green used to sing: A ball from the forward pivot that day; Roll, Alabama, roll. Shot the Alabama's ass away. Oh, roll, Alabama, roll. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:11 PM What happened to the thread with the old Boer song, Dar Kom die Alibama? I'm sure it is here somewhere. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: JeffB Date: 13 Aug 10 - 06:14 PM My version, which is entirely from oral sources, seems to be the English "standard", except for the first verse which I have heard only once. It makes a good finishing verse too. The last verse here is usually - Off the three-mile limit in '65 / the Alabama went to her grave, but I've changed that as the year is wrong. Perhaps I should do something about the claim that she was in Cherbourg to pick up prize money as well. Let us build the Alabama they said and she'll be a vessel all men will dread. Oh the Alabama's keel was laid in the Atlantic yard of Jonathan Laird. Down the Merseyway she sailed and then Liverpool fitted her with guns and men. To the Western Isles she then set forth to destroy the commerce of the North. And to Cherbourg town she came one day to collect her count of prize money. But those sailor boys they met their doom when the Kearsage sailed in view. For a cannonball that fateful day shot the Alabama's stern away. Off the three-mile limit in '64 she sank and never did rise no more. The Western Isles are the Azores, where Semmes took on water and stores. Some years ago I came across a digitalised book written by one of the Alabama's officers about her career, which took her as far as the East Indies. I've had a look but can't find it now (no doubt it's still somewhere on the Net; I believe it was done by an Ivy League University) but among many interesting details he mentioned that about a third of her crew were British. The British Government turned a blind eye to her construction and was generally pro-Confederate because the Union blockade of the southern cotton ports was damaging the valuable English textile industry. During the war the Manchester mills had to import Indian cotton which was much inferior. In the duel in the Channel the Kearsage enjoyed two distinct advantages. One was that Winslow had prudently fitted her with chain armour which prevented a lot of damage; in fact Semmes later said that if he had known this he would have refused to fight. A second was that the Alabama's explosive ammunition had deteriorated. I saw somewhere a photo of the Kearsage's sternpost, which is preserved somewhere with an unexploded shell embedded in it. Once the Alabama's steering was hit her outside chance dwindled to zero. I notice that the earliest date of collection is 1925. Would that be Hugill's version? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Steve Gardham Date: 13 Aug 10 - 06:18 PM The version given by Duncan Emrich in 'Folklore on the American Land' 1972 is said to come from Dick Maitland but is different from the above version attributed to Maitland. I am informed that Emrich 'edited' some of his texts. FWIW here it is. I recognise the tune as the one I have heard and sung. When the Alabama's keel was laid R, A, r They laid the keel at Birkenhead Oh, r, A, r. She was built in the yard of Jonathan Laird She was built in the yard at Birkenhead And away down the Mersey she sailed one day And across to the westward she ploughed her way 'Twas at the island of Fayal Where she got her guns and crew on board Then away cross the watery world To sink, to burn, and to destroy All the Federal comers that came her way 'Twas in the harbour of Cherbourg one day There the little Kearsarge she did lay When Semmes and Winslow made the shore Winslow challenged Semmes out to sea He couldn't refuse, there was too many around Three miles outside of Cherbourg There the Kearsarge sunk her down below A rather strange concoction in which shunting of lines seems to have occurred. The lack of rhyme could easily have been remedied. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: GUEST,kendall Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:38 PM I read a book on the life of the Alabama, very interesting. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Gibb Sahib Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:05 PM This book review, from Feb. 1903, of Lubbock's ROUND THE HORN,,. (1903) purports that in it Lubbock mentions the "old favourite" chanty, "Roll, Alabama, roll." http://books.google.com/books?id=X2tIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA206&dq=%22roll,+alabama%22&hl However, I am unable to locate it in Lubbock's book itself! (?) In any case, FWIW the date of 1903 trumps The Traditional Ballad Index's "Earliest Date." |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:14 PM Hi, Gibb- Be mindful that the "earliest date" in the Traditional Ballad Index is the earliest date referenced to in the sources indexed. The Ballad Index does not ordinarily attempt to determine the date of composition of a song. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Les from Hull Date: 14 Aug 10 - 10:47 AM JeffB The book written by Semmes (Alabama's captain) is available on the internet |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Les from Hull Date: 14 Aug 10 - 10:52 AM Memoirs of service afloat - Admiral Raphael Semmes (sorry, should have been included above) Incidently, Semmes makes no mention of any particular shot from the Kearsage doing any significant damage (shot from the forward pivot that day...) only the cumulative shell fire that sank Alabama. He mentions one shot that carried away his CSN ensign, which he quickly replaced |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Leadfingers Date: 17 Aug 10 - 12:06 PM I will be good for a change and NOT bring up the more recent song about the Alabama's sister ship , the Mississippi - Ask Trayton for that one ! LOL |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Les from Hull Date: 17 Aug 10 - 12:46 PM Charley - CSS Shenandoah was formally the Sea King. Alabama was launched very quietly and named 'Enrica' at that time. The Mississippi wasn't a sister ship of Alabama, she was a riverine/coastal ironclad that was never finished and burnt to prevent capture. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Aug 10 - 01:45 PM Error in my post of 9:48pm. The Ensign from the Alabama at the Tennessee State Museum probably was made by the seamen aboard the raider. Checking the Roster of the ship when she was sunk off Cherbourg, there were 22 from the British Isles and 3 from Prussia. Data for a number of crew members not given in the roster on the CSS Alabama Association website. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Charley Noble Date: 17 Aug 10 - 02:19 PM Les- Thanks for the correction with regard to the Sea King. I shouldn't be so lazy to consult books that are so handy. I'm with Q with regard to the origin of the song "there comes the Alabama" and no doubt the words and verses changed over time. But the arrival of the Alabama is what inspired the song. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Aug 10 - 02:21 PM The Journal of George Townley Fullam..., first printed as a supplement to the South Africa Advertiser and Mail, Cape Town, contains interesting details of the prizes taken by the Alabama. When Capt. Semmes took charge, the Confederate ensign was at the peak, the English St. George's at the fore, and the pennant on the main. "To all prizes we had captured we hoisted English colours, and exchanged them for Confederate as soon as the boarding officer gained the vessel's deck." The information about the use of English colors is new to me. A piece of the journal is on line, google books; it does not include the part about stops at Cape Town. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:45 AM A large mural depicting her exploits can be seen at the East bound rest area of Alabama's Interstate 10 |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Lighter Date: 09 Nov 10 - 06:20 AM It's fascinating to see three different texts of this shanty from one singer - Dick Maitland of New York City (1857-1942). He was recorded by Alan Lomax in 1941 and by Richard Doerflinger at around the same time. I believe that the version printed by Emrich is the one Maitland sang for Lomax, but my Emrich book is temporarily invisible. Doerflinger says (p. 36)that Maitland "sang the first version fairly consistently, but would also make up long semiextemporaneous versions, one of which follows. Rhyme, while preferred, wasn't strictly required. Some shantymen fell back on delayed rhymes or assonance." I don't know what a "delayed rhyme" is unless he means "extra syllables." Anyway, M's version II in Doerflinger begins with eight numbered stanzas and concludes with four unnumbered ones. I don't why. Perhaps he sang the numbered stanzas every time but the unnumbered ones only now and then. D says that M learned to sing "The Alabama" "on the schoolship _Mercury_ in 1870 or 1871." That would make it one of the first shanties he learned. That would also be the earliest posited date. M was almost 85 when he was recorded. I believe that the usual revival version was written by somebody in the 1950s. Hermes Nye sang it on "Songs of the Civil War" in 1954 without giving a source. Colcord's version: When the Alabama's keel was laid RAR They laid her keel at Birkenhead, ORAR Oh, she was built in Birkenhead, Built in the yard of Jonathan Laird. Away down the Mesrey she rolled one day, And across the "Western" she ploughed her way. Colcord notes, "I have never been able to collect more than the fragment which my father used to sing." It seems not to have been very common. Carpenter seems not to have encountered it. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: GUEST Date: 09 Nov 10 - 06:49 AM One of the Alabama's guns is on display at Cherbourg's Cite de la Mer Museum. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Lighter Date: 09 Nov 10 - 08:09 AM No text is given, but "Roll, Alabama, roll" is mentioned as an "old favourite" sea shanty (along with "We'll roll the old chariot along") in the _Athenaeum_ (London) (Feb. 14, 1903), p. 206. That seems to be the earliest unquestionable attestation of the shanty's existence. Colcord published her father's three stanzas in 1924. The ship was constructed at the shipyard of William and John [not "Jonathan"] Laird & Co. in Birkenhead. Before christening she was referred to by her keel number, "290" (not "292"). |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Charley Noble Date: 09 Nov 10 - 01:04 PM The tune that's usually used for "Roll, Alabama, Roll" seems related to another traditional shanty titled "Roll the Cotton Down," as pointed out by Hugill in SHANTIES OF THE SEVEN SEAS, p. 126. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: GUEST Date: 10 Nov 10 - 12:24 AM The Alabama was chartered as a British vessel. After she sank, the British government raised objections with the Union. When the war was over, diplomats from both countries met in Geneva, Switzerland to work out their differences. It was the first international law case ever. The decision was in favor of the U.S. and there is a square in Geneva that is called "Alabama" in honor of the trial. I can never remember whether it was Monet or Manet who did a painting of people watching the battle between the Alabama and the Kearsarge from the shore. But I know one of them did. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 10 Nov 10 - 09:36 AM "Over the next two years, the Alabama sank a total of 69 Union merchant vessels, formally valued at $6,547,609." So how many people lost their lives, murdered in cold blood by the crew of the Alabama? Or is it politically incorrect to wonder about that? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Lighter Date: 10 Nov 10 - 10:54 AM That's an interesting question. If you restrict "murder" to noncombatants, i.e., civilian passengers and crews, the answer may be none. International naval practice held that merchant vessels could be seized or destroyed only after the passengers, crew, and ship's papers had been placed in a position of safety. That generally meant they were placed in lifeboats with provisions, or even taken on board the aggressor until she could reach a civilized port. The use of the submarine in World War I changed that. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: GUEST Date: 10 Nov 10 - 06:29 PM I think the case was that, far from the British raising objections, the US government sued the UK for reparations because HM government had knowingly allowed a warship to be built for a combatant nation in defiance of international law (Britain supposedly being a neutral country). The British government supported the Confederates because of the valuable cotton trade which made the mill owners of Lancashire very rich. The case dragged on for years (until about 1893 I think) but the US was eventually awarded $15.5m. As Lighter says, passengers and crews of merchant ships were removed before the ship was fired. Kell mentions people being brought aboard the Alabama in his book. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Greg F. Date: 10 Nov 10 - 06:33 PM Nothin' to do with nothin', but I went to graduate school with a lineal descendant of Raphael Semmes. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Gibb Sahib Date: 02 Mar 12 - 05:28 AM Recently was looking over this song again. Lighter wrote, I believe that the usual revival version was written by somebody in the 1950s. Hermes Nye sang it on "Songs of the Civil War" in 1954 without giving a source. It seems possible that Nye's version was the one. My guess is that Nye adapted one of Maitland's versions in Doerflinger's book. Most of the verses read as "improved" versions of what Maitland sang off-the-cuff. Nye's album also included "Santa Anna," in a version that is identical to Maitland's and the orthography in Doerflinger's text. The same lyrics have become standard since then. If anyone has an on-line link to a sample, I'd like to hear Peter Bellamy and Louis Killen's rendition (recorded in 1971). I am wondering if they were the people to introduce the rubato or slowed down choruses. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Charley Noble Date: 02 Mar 12 - 08:57 AM The Bill Bonyun Heirloom recording titled "The Civil War" was produced in 1961. Folk song collector and singer Frank Warner led the song and credits his source as The Harris Collection, Brown University. According to the track notes" "Roll Alabama Roll" is a Civil War variant of the Negro roustabout shanty "Roll the Cotton Down. It is a beautifully concise life story of the great Confederate raider. Here are the lyrics as included with the recording: When the Alabama's keel was laid -- Roll, Alabama, roll! It was laid in the yard of Jonathan Laird -- Roll, Alabama, roll! 'Twas laid in the yard of Jonathan Laird -- Roll, Alabama, roll! 'Twas laid in the town of Birkenhead -- Roll, Alabama, roll! Down the Mersey ways she rolled then -- Roll, Alabama, roll! Liverpool fitted her with guns and men -- Roll, Alabama, roll! From the Western Isles she sailed forth -- Roll, Alabama, roll! To destroy the commerce of the North -- Roll, Alabama, roll! To Cherbourg port she sailed one day -- Roll, Alabama, roll! To take her count of prize money -- Roll, Alabama, roll! Many a sailor lad saw his doom -- Roll, Alabama, roll! When the Kearsarge hoved into view -- Roll, Alabama, roll! A ball from the forward pivot that day -- Roll, Alabama, roll! Shot the Alabama's stern away -- Roll, Alabama, roll! Off the three-mile limit in sixty-four -- Roll, Alabama, roll! The Alabama went to her grave -- Roll, Alabama, roll! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Gibb Sahib Date: 02 Mar 12 - 04:09 PM Thanks, Charley, that's very interesting. Warner's lyrics you posted are an exact match to Nye's from the 1954 album. Perhaps Nye learned it from Warner? Incidentally, what exactly is in the Harris Collection (he wonders aloud...)? Some chanteys? On the other hand -- any takers on my idea that Nye (or another) spruced up Maitland's verses? Sure, the story would be fairly consistent, but also there seems IMO a good correlation between the verses in the Maitland and Nye/Warner versions, whereas the latter takes the form of what would be ideally intended (!) by the former if it were thought out. *** On another note, I was kindly directed to a way to hear Bellamy/Killen's recording of 1971. It has the odd (from a working chanty perspective) patter and s l o w down style. That style was not present on the Critic's Group recording from just a year earlier. Swan Arcade's recording from 1972 has a slight bit of this feature, but not really -- it is in a chanty style. This does not prove that Bellamy/Killen started it, but I'd think their version was influential. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Dave Earl Date: 02 Mar 12 - 04:36 PM Yes Charley, That's the version I've been singing for I don't know how many years, Dave |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Charley Noble Date: 02 Mar 12 - 04:56 PM I'll have to transcribe the version I heard Sarah Gray, Owen McBride and Friends of Fiddlers Green sing around 1968 when they did a concert at our folk club in East Lansing, Michigan; it's on an old cassette tape. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Gibb Sahib Date: 02 Mar 12 - 05:10 PM Charley, I would be interested to know whether the folks you last mentioned had presented the song "as a chantey." The Nye (1954) and Warner (1961) renditions seem to be presented as "a song of the Civil War" -- which is of course not mutually exclusive, but does make some difference in who might sing / consume their music. When, I wonder, did people first start re-singing it in the framework as a chantey? Critic's Group chantey form came in 1970. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 02 Mar 12 - 05:11 PM Hold on to your gorges, gentlemen. The Harris Collection is described on BU's website as follows: "The Harris Collection of American Poetry and Plays is composed of approximately 250,000 volumes of American and Canadian poetry, plays, and vocal music dating from 1609 to the present day. It is perhaps the largest and most comprehensive collection of its kind in any research library. The works of most well-known (and many thousands of little-known) American and Canadian poets and playwrights, from the 18th century to the present day, are held comprehensively. There are significant holdings of early American literature, hymnals, songsters, little magazines, contemporary fine printing, extensive collections on Walt Whitman and Edgar Allan Poe, women's writings, gay and lesbian literature, modern first editions, Yiddish-American literature, and French-Canadian literature. The Collection is fully cataloged, with records available in Josiah, the Library's online catalog.. Includes periodicals, broadsides, recordings, films, electronic resources, manuscripts, prints and photographs." No mention of shanty manuscripts or recordings. Except: "Songs of the Civil War [electronic resource]...N[ew] Y[ork] C[ity] : Folkways Records, [1960]." Sung by Hermes Nye. Unfortunately typical. Or am I being "too cynical"? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Gibb Sahib Date: 02 Mar 12 - 05:54 PM So Lighter, May I interest you in my "Nye spruced up Maitland" theory? :) |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 02 Mar 12 - 06:01 PM Works for me. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Charley Noble Date: 02 Mar 12 - 09:15 PM Interesting. I'll have to listen to the record again but my impression was that it was done in shanty format. Frank Warner, of course, was a collector of ballads and other traditional songs, and was well known for presenting the songs as closely as he could in the way his informants presented them. I've never run across Hermes Nye before. What do we actually know about him? Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Gibb Sahib Date: 02 Mar 12 - 11:37 PM Liner notes for Nye's album can be downloaded here: http://www.folkways.si.edu/albumdetails.aspx?itemid=930 He wasn't a scholar or anything like that. He probably just worked up versions from wherever he could find them. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Charley Noble Date: 03 Mar 12 - 11:50 AM Gibb- There's more to this story about who Hermes Nye was, I'm convinced. In my Google searches there seems to be some association with Richard Dyer-Bennet, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn he also was associated with Frank Warner, in addition to Maitland. When it comes to creative work, no one really functions in a vacuum. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 03 Mar 12 - 08:23 PM But no matter how you slice it, the familiar "lyrics look like a 1950s pastiche. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Mar 12 - 03:30 PM Lyrics rom the Smithsonian Folkways liner notes (mentioned above) Roll Alabama Roll When the Alabama's keel was laid, Roll, Alabama, roll. 'Twas laid in the yard of Jonathan Laird, Roll, Alabama, roll. "Twas laid in the yard of Jonathan Laird, Roll, Alabama, roll. 'Twas laid in the town of Birkenhead, Roll, Alabama, roll. ------------------- Down the Mersey ways she rolled then, Liverpool filled her with guns and men. From the Western Isles she sailed forth, To destroy the commerce of the North. To Cherbourg port she sailed one day, To take her count of prize money. Many a sailor lad he saw his doom, When the Ke-arsarge it hove in view. Till a ball from the forward pivot that day Shot the Alabama's stern away. Off the three mile limit in '65 The Alabama went to her grave. The notes include clippings from the papers of the times, contemporary illustrations, and elucidation. Very interesting, an album worth having. Ballads of the Civil War, sung by Hermes Nye with Guitar." FP5004, Folkways. 1954, 21 songs, all lyrics in liner. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Mar 12 - 03:46 PM Brief note on Hermes Nye, from http://neglectedbooks.com/?p=193 From a review of "Fortune Is a Woman," a novel of Nye's. "Hermes Nye was born in Chicago, but became a legendary East Texas character as a lawyer, folksinger, folklorist, novelist, humorist and local liberal activist. Nye clearly never took anything, including himself, too seriously. When, in the midst of the 1960s folk boom, he published a guide to folk songs, he gave it a triply-redundant title that included his own punchline: How to be a folksinger; How to sing and present folksongs; or, The folksinger's guide; or, Eggs I have laid." |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Roll, Alabama Roll From: Peter C Date: 04 Mar 12 - 04:14 PM I have a great EP 45 rpm of the Tom Topping Band doing this song, I think on 'Folk on Two' for an event perhaps at Liverpool/Birkenhead long before I was born! I will make a MP3 of it when I have a moment |
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