BS: anyone remember the corvair

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: jpk
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:08 PM

dear john;yea it do   not much   thought so;about as much torque as one o them roller skates happy described above. notten pesonal mr.happy ya'll have a great day now.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 08:56 PM

wen I past me drivling test just drove C3 Morris 15 cwt vans or Morris Minor 1000 vans, relying only on wing mirrors!

Then me own cars were:



1. Ford Cortina Mk 3 circa 1971 [no wing mirrors-horror!- had to get used to using interior one- aghast!!]

2. Morris MG 1100 around '72

3. Morris Minor 1000 73ish 8* great little motor- only cost 15 pounds!

4. Triumph Herald 74ish

5. Vauxhall Viva 76ish

6. Part-exed Viva for Honda 50 moped [presently mouldering away in garridge!]


7. Simca [help the engine's missing!- ok there's a spare one in the boot!] 78ish.

8. Morris Marina - great car for camping at fests-cud seep in it! 1980ish

9. I 4 get! Cont'd wen I rember!


6.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:50 PM

jpk -

The "fleafart*Angstrom" has passed into colloquial speech as a euphemism for "a very small torque;" but appears to have originated with a friend at a lab where I worked about 50 years ago to describe the maximum unbalance torque permissible for a mechanical gyro with an x million gram cm^2/sec gyroscopic moment in order to achieve a maximum drift (error) rate of 0.(several zeros)1 MERU (milli-earth-rate-units). I don't know that "one fleafart" was ever calibrated in the original units, but it's a fairly small force.

Hope that clarifies it.

John

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: jpk
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 04:50 PM

that was me and i knew they were there,and it work once that i know of,5 of 6 nuts on the ground on all 4 corners of my own truck,also till 63 on factory for the lefty nuts i had a 62 and63 willy's pu that way as a kid.and john in k ville the angstrom went south as a gauge of length they use nanometers now.ps how much force in a flea fart,ihave never mesured one.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 05:17 PM

kendall -

That's probably about the time most of the switchover happened. My dad's '37 Chev had right hand threads all around, but some of the other GM models may still have had the left handers for a while after that.

Someone commented about left hand studs being a theft deterent. I rather doubt they were too effective. If you torque the wrong way about 10 or 20% past the "spec" nut torque, the studs pop off pretty nicely. The most common result of trying to change a tire without realizing you had backward threads was one less stud on the wheel. 'Course lots of people never tightened them to spec values anyhow.

John

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 05:03 PM

If my memory serves, my kid brother had a 1938 Oldsmobile with left hand threads on the lug nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 04:56 PM

Nothin' wrong with a good story - if you stick to tellin' it to the one's that will believe it. And that story will pass with quite a lot of people. If someone contradicts you, you can always tell them you forgot to mention that you're talking about your "full-race modified V12 Ferari." Most people know less about one of them than they do about lug nuts.

John

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: jpk
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 03:56 PM

i know it is false,but in that day and age that was the thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 03:52 PM

The notion that it helps keep the lug nuts on is pretty much B.S.

On some competition vehicles that use a single large nut (a knock-off nut) for fast tire changes it might have some validity, and has been done for that reason. For a normal passenger car, with usually 4 or 5 nuts, the axle torque doesn't apply as a torque around the stud, it's just a lateral force on the stud. The "inertia" of the nut itself would be the only thing, under extremely high acceleration that could "untorque" it. The nuts are so small that the torque generated would be in the "flea-fart Angstrom" range, even at acceleration rates that would twist the axle off.

But it's an oft-heard story, and lots of "car people" seem to belive it.

John

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: jpk
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 03:36 PM

belive it alot of diff makes used left hand studs from time to time,on some one side was rights and one lefts,idea being that they would self tighten under acceleration.for my self i always have put one lefty on each corner[stops thiefs cold,they can,t fig why it won't come lose and leave,instead of wasting time that might get them caught.   also on the vega, nice little car esp. the cosworth version,also worked well with a small block under the hood lots of diff kits around to make the swap[even g.m. put one out from the fatory(kit that is)]

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: frogprince
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 03:11 PM

Never really lived with a Chrysler product until the 70-something Volaire my wife had when we met; I don't think it had left-hand lug nuts. I think my dad said that they were used on early cars on the theory that they were less apt to vibrate loose with the rotation on that side of the car. Truth be, JohninK's explanation sounds more likely to me now that I hear it.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 02:40 PM

At least some Chrysler products had left-hand threaded lug nuts on one side as late as mid 1960s. I can't say when they changed them, or if they ever did. I had a Plymouth Valiant from that era (briefly) that was thus equipped. It was apparently a holdover from when all the power tools on the assembly line ran off belts from overhead shafts. If you point the tool in opposite directions, with the belt on the same shaft, the rotation direction is reversed (from one side of the car to the other). Xler just kept them that way because it was traditional, I suppose; although various people had other nonsense explanations for it.

Re the Corvair, does anybody remember the other book Nader wrote? A couple of years before "Unsafe at Any Speed," in which he blasted the Corvair, he wrote one that ripped at the entire US auto industry for making cars that were sluggish, unresponsive, that plowed in turns, etc. ... . The Corvair essentially "corrected" all the complaints he made in the first book, thus proving that US drivers weren't really adapted to having sporty high performance cheap cars.

John

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: The Zen Banjoist
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 02:16 PM

Bobert!

Thank you so much for the laugh! Oh, if you could only see the picture in my brain but then, you don't have to! LOL

You GUEST,Canadian.

Sweating over them left-hand lugs!

You two have made my day, Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: frogprince
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 01:16 PM

Guys, when was the last that any cars used left-hand threaded wheel studs? I knew of it only on some truly ancient axles that had been put under home built farm wagons.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 08:31 AM

We passed a Corvair for sale on rt.202 in New Hampshire yesterday.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 08:30 AM

An old Chrysler product with left hand threads?

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: GUEST,Canadian
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 02:47 AM

Years back a friend who was driving--downtown Toronto--got a flat tire on the rear passenger side. He took the spare, which was flat, to a service station about five blocks away. I stayed with the car to take the flat tire off. I reefed on the lug nuts like you would NOT believe. Damn near gave my young body a hernia. Could NOT remove a singe one. You car lovers will know the make and why. Lesson for this ol' boy.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Kaleea
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 02:39 AM

My Daddy & my Grandad had an auto salvage in Sapulpa OK for many years. I usually remember stuff when it comes to cars--well, before the past couplethree decades or so. My oldest boy cousin bought a new corvair in the early 60's. He drove it for a couple of years, then because the rest of our cousins & his buddies made fun of him so much that he parked it and fixed up a totalled Mustang Grandad had towed in off the turnpike. He drove that Mustang for alot of years. Then, in the 80's he pulled that corvair & prettied it all up & replaced the engine with a big 'un. He drove the the Corvair & the Mustang till he died a few months ago. His son has them now, & they can really go!
   Lay off that chevy Vega--I had a cute 1975 yellow hatchback till my younger brother totalled it & I sold it after the body shop unmangled it. A feller around town is still driving that same vega!

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:11 PM

Okay, I wasn't gonna tell this story but...

... 'round, ahhh, 1976 I bought a 66 VeeDub that some guy had been tryin' to stuff a Corvair engine into but had lost interest so it was cheap...

So I drag the poor ol' VeeDubb home with a tow bar an' proceed to finsih the job....

Right?

Well, all I had was a car, a Corvair engine (not in the car) and an adapter to make the Corvaie engine adapt to a VeeDub transaxle and nuthin more...

So I spent a couple o' days puttin' everthing together and that day had come whjen I had the Corvair engine runnin' an' it was time fir the big ol' test drive.... Right???

Well, this is where the story goes seriously left as I invited every hippie on the commune to enjoy the test ride wid me and 'bout 6 'er so come on down fir the maiden test run.... Well, I had 'bout 4 'er 6 hippies packed into this poor ol' VeeDubya bug and had that Corvair engine justa rumblin' and tumblin' an' ready to show its stuff... So I put the VeeDub in 1st gear, let up off the clutch and it went backwards???? Hmmmmm??? 2nd gear, the same!!!!

Like, ahh the Corvair engibe turns counter-clockwise and the VeeDubs turn clockwise!!!! Hmmmmmmmmm???? NO, make that: HMMMMMMMMMMMM?????

Sheeeweeit!!!!

So I had to pul;lo the engine out, the transaxle out and swap the carrier gears from on side to another and then put the engine back in to get 4 forward gears.... But by then I was totally bored with with the project, even though it worked and sold the car fir about what I bought it for?????

Nevermind...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: The Zen Banjoist
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:34 PM

I don't care what anybody says, the Corvair engine is one of the best dune buggy/home made aircraft engines out there.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: GUEST,Seonaid
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:34 PM

We were quite a Corvair family --

My dad got one, then got another one for my sister, then I took over his first one while he drove a newer one. In about 1972 my brother and my father rebuilt a Corvair squareback (station wagon) for me, in which I tooled across the contiguous 48 states, top to bottom and sea to shining sea.

I remember going to Massachusetts to visit a friend, and taking my luggage out of the front trunk. Charlotte looked at the car (with stuff piled in the back as well) and gasped, "Where's the engine?!"

At one gas station a young attendant suggested a new fan belt, then couldn't figure out how to put it on. He was mortified when I did it for him (bested by a *girl*!). On fall in New Mexico the generator mount broke, and my buddy and I cobbled it back together with three smallish rings clamps joined end-to-end, and a hunk of wood from the side of the road. It held til San Diego and a decent repair shop.

None of our Corvairs ever leaked oil or threw out the back end, to my recollection -- mine finally burned up its engine wiring after about 150,000 glorious miles.

Some years later my Dad, my brother and his friend got hold of a Corvair Greenbriar *van*, fixed it all up beautifully and drove it happily until a drunk took the whole side off with his sports car.

As Chevies go, my experience with a Corsica in the 90's was far worse. I think I paid more in repairs than I paid for the car.

Hang in there, Corvairists!

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 08:04 AM

Minors, yes, we had a few! Mine (Traveller) with the flat top pistons and Brook motors cam (and cosmic wheels) and Riley front brakes, Charlie's (gold convertible) with the B series engine from and MGB and the resulting external radiator (and the brake servo off a Zephyr, which was a bit TOOO sudden), Tom's with the 649 cam and twin large SUs, Keith's with the screamer ex-formula three engine (huge flames out of the exhaust on the overrun), and "Funkbucket" which was a split-screen, originally with the 803 engine, but sporting a modified 948 until Tom rolled her!

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 08:46 PM

My first car was a metallic blue Honda Civic, and I loved it. I drove it for 10 years.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Claymore
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 08:14 PM

I had a 140 hp Corsa with 4 (count 'em four) single barrel carbs, which thanks to every young mans dream book, J C Whitney, I soon converted to a single 400 cfb four barrel on a four tube spider intake manifold. Then I bought the anti-roll bar, the high roller/high dwell cam, the split brake package, the first mag wheels, the deep well oil pan and high fin oil cooler, as well as tuned headers into two mufflers. I could shit two recaps in the space of thirty feet, but it drove those little girls wild... And with the top down, on a favorite overlook on the GW Parkway over the Potomac, I drove 'em over the tonneau cover to Jesus... (or maybe it was just the Second Coming).

It was a great car.......... or so I remember

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Bentley
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 03:31 PM

Like any rear engined car, if you bottled out on a corner it would bite. Big time. Slow in,fast out,no problem. Also the first production car to be turbo-charged! Went like a rat up a drainpipe.Good fun.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: GUEST,TheBub
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 02:38 PM

I enjoyed my Corvairs. A little tricky and expensive to keep, sort of like a girlfriend. Talk about pieces of crap, I have a Sonata. Runs O.K., but try to sell it. It isn't worth anything.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 04:02 AM

My Granfer had a Morris Minor van in Military Grey (Darker than Battleship Grey but not quite Luftwaffe Grey). It could carry 3 adults, 3 children and luggage for a month, and usually a bale of straw or two whenever we went 'down home' to Granfers' farm for holidays. It had a lovely smiley radiator. It was bought new in the '50s and driven every day, until about 1975 when Granfer had to give up the farm and it went to my uncle's farm instead. It was finally laid to rust there in 1983.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Janie
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 12:51 AM

Troll--We passed a "73 Duster around our family for better than 20 years. Talk about dependable....

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Troll
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 11:40 PM

Of course the cars of today don't rust out.

Plastic doesn't rust.

The older models lasted quite well if you took care of them, changed the oil regularly and kept clean coolant in them. Yes, some were lemons from the git-go (Vega) but most did ok.

My early fave was a '58 Hillman Husky -a 2 door station wagon- which I drove in the late '60's while in college. I sold it and went to a '61 right-hand steering Hillman 4-door with a Sunbeam Alpine engine in it. It was a screamer with a 4-speed tranny. I got it up to over 100mph and still had pedal but I was scared to push it any faster. The one bad thing was the brake system; Lord deliver me from Lockheed brakes and I', not real crazy about Lucas ignitions either.

My current car is a '73 Duster Sport Coupe with a 318 and automatic. Lousy gas milage but a ball to drive.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: jpk
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:58 PM

been selling new mini's over here for awhile now[ugly,tiny,but cute]

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 07:39 AM

My mother's first car was a Morris Minor, and we loved it! It ran for many years. Good little car.

Check out this link for T-Birds:

Glorious Thunderbirds!

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 02:06 AM

Am I the only sad git who has fond memories of the Morris Minor and the Morris Traveller with half timbered bodywork?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Janie
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 10:24 PM

I remember Annie wrecking the neighbor's yellow Corvair. I believe she totaled it. I had a 69 Beetle and she had 63 Beetle painted fire engine red. She also had a wonderful old Volvo. It was a late 50's or early '60's model with styling that reminded us of a late '40's Ford. I was the one who wrecked it. Ooh ooh....and in high school Dad got us an old '62 Plymouth Valiant station wagon with a push button automatic transmission. That was one dependable old car, and we sure had some fun. Thanks for stirring up the memories.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: number 6
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 05:24 PM

Not quite as cool as the T-Bird LH.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 05:23 PM

I vaguely recall the Corvair. Was it considered to be as cool as a T-Bird?

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 02:07 PM

Back in 1963 I went groundhog hunting with Obray Ramsey in one, tooling up and down the backroads of Madison County, NC. Obray's was bright blue and there was room in the back for his scope 22-rifle. The groundhogs didn't stand a chance!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 01:09 PM

Actually, my grandmother died in one in 1963 (the day before JFK was shot, and she was buried in Arlington as well). Not sure whether the accident was her fault, or the car's. I was just a kid at the time, so I don't remember whether Nader's report on the Corvair came out before or after her death.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: John Hardly
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 11:44 AM

"If I still had it, I think it would still be running"

What? They had no ignition key to turn the dumb thing off?!

My grandmother had a Corvair which she drove around teh streets of Buffalo, NY ... often on the wrong side of the road. No, she wasn't British, just demented.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 09:46 PM

I fondly remember the turbo Corsas. Fun to drive, too. They were good ice racing cars in Maine. But, the current cars are so much more reliable, even if they aren't sexy.

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: DougR
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 02:33 PM

I remember the Model T (Owned one in high school), Model A, Model B. Why wouldn't I remember the Corvair?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: anyone remember the corvair
From: Duane D.
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 12:47 PM

Jerry,

To the best of my recollection, the early Hundai Excells had a sleeveless aluminum block and the engine typically started burning oil while the car was still "young" and the fix many owners did was have the block bored larger and install steel sleeves. I think the Vega had a similar problem as well.

We never had any Corvairs in my family, but my father had VWs starting in 1951 and Citroens starting in 1965. My father's 1966 Citroen ID19 became my first car in 1969.

Duane.