Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up

Subject: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 03:38 PM

Could any of you clued-up Mudcatters give me some opinions on the comparisons of broadband and dial-up, regarding security from attack from all the nasties out there in internet world? I presently use a dial-up connection (pay as you go), but want to switch to a monthly contract 'cos it will be cheaper for me. I can get broadband for a couple of pounds more than I would pay for dial-up and know it provides faster download times, but I've heard it can be more vunerable than dial-up. I have Spy-Bot, Zone Alarm Firewall, and Norton Anti-Virus installed(all free downloads). Will I be safe (ish)and what are the security pros and cons of the two systems? Grateful for any advice anyone can offer.

Kind regards    Andy

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 03:51 PM

I'd get the net over Morse code if I had to... but broadband beats dial-up hands down...

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 04:10 PM

Broadband definitely. If security is a worry use a hadware firewall instead of the stuff on your PC. A good ADSL router with onboard firewall is now only £20 UK. You can get a wireless one for about £40.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: treewind
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 05:10 PM

What Dave said.
Even though you are connected all the time, with a simple ADSL router's firewalling you're more invisible to the rest of the net that you are with a dialup connection while you're on. Simple firewalls are easy: ALL incoming connections are blocked, and that's almost the end of it.

I use an ethernet router, because it's less flaky than USB and anyway I've got a LAN at home with other machines connected.

I don't think you're so well protected with an ADSL card inside your PC.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 05:46 PM

Although you're connected all the time with DSL, with proper firewall and AV (and antispyware and maybe antiporn) you shouldn't have a problem. Many of us with dial-up are on 24/7 anyway.

With WinXP, you can make your connection virtually invisible. IF you have a LAN setup, and use Win2K on a "connected" machine, Win2K does have to have a "visible port" for the LAN that lets your web connection be seen by the outside world. If you can let WinXP run the LAN and connect the other machines through it you can eliminate even that one. Most hardware firewalls, at the DSL connection, will eliminate the problem, although some software firewalls may not. Being "visible" is not desirable, but isn't a real problem with a good firewall and AV.

Older Windows OS are more vulnerable, but good firewall and AV will get you by.

Norton's website has a pretty good checkout (their Security Check), free, that you can use to get a reading on what your exposure is, once you get set up. They'll tell you whether the web can see you when you don't want to be seen, and will suggest what you can do about it. They'll suggest Norton products, of course, but there's no real hard sell on it. Other security sites probably have similar tests.

John

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 05:47 PM

BB fer sure. No more Nasties with it than with Dial up....faster and cheaper too. Don't tie up the phone line.

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 06:18 PM

Andy,

I didn't know that Norton had a free antivirus. UK side their download is free, but only gives you a limited period before informing you that you will have to pay £30 to continue protection for the remainder of the year, and the same again each year.

If you have just installed it you will need to check that out.

I use AVG free edition, which is really free for home use, updates daily, and picks up all viruses including a number that got past Norton when I had it.

Just a thought.

Broadband is definitely the way to go tho', and with Zonealarm is as safe as any dial-up IMHO.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 06:25 PM

I recently went to broadband (cable) and wireless (three computers in the house). I loaded the Symantec Security suite (firewall, antivirus, etc.), and I have all the precautions set up on my router (actually, a friend who writes books on computers set it up for me, bless his heart!).

First of all, with broadband, things load very quickly, sometimes instantaneously. I got very good with "Minesweeper" (expert level) while waiting for pages to load. I don't have time to play it much anymore.

Second, every now and then, I go to "Shields Up!" and have it probe my computer for vulnerabilities. Since I went broadband and wireless (complete with firewalls, etc.), "Shields Up" tells me that I'm invisible.

Like warping through cyberspace with a Romulan cloaking device. Hard to attack something you don't even know is there.

Go for it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 15 Jun 05 - 07:05 PM

I use bb at both home and in the office. I have also gone wireless in both locations. The routers are cheap and relatively easy to set up. Can sit anywhere in the office and at home and get access.

I would never go back to dial-up.

I use the Norton Internet Security suite and it works OK though sometimes it can seem to take over. I have never had a virus. Spy-bot, Ad-aware should also be used.

I also use Skype as a voice over internet phone system. Talk to the bosses back in the UK and my son in NZ. I have also chatted with some catters who are also on Skype. Works really well with a bb connection.

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 01:37 PM

If the reason for staying with dialup was the price, then there are some companies working hard to make dialup as painless as possible. Earthlink has a system for reducing download time by dealing with all of the images that load. You want the fastest download, then you look at a smudged version of the images. You can change the settings to get the best looking images, but when my DSL was on the fritz, I tried this and was pleasantly surprised with the results.

DSL is good for a lot of reasons suggested above, and it frees up your phone for regular phone business. I remember giving Don Firth a list of things to do when he was doing his DSL thing--I hope some of it came in handy, Don!

I'm going to be tweaking my wireless setup soon. Before the burglary (when all of the equipment hastily exited the house, never to be heard from again) I had an easy open network that the kids used, but anyone out in the street could also use. With the new setup I use a password on the router and now they have to log in each time they want to use the internet, after they power up their machine. This may be due partly to their wireless card being turned off when we turn off the power to the computer--if it stayed on, maybe it would always be connected? John, when you talk about letting XP run the network, are you saying that XP would do the same thing as the router software? I need to tell my router or XP or something to automatically let that other computer always have access, but block everyone else. Should I be simply telling XP or the router who can use it and drop the password, or stick with the password and find a way for it to stay in that wireless card's setup?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Jun 05 - 05:56 PM

SRS -

We use the crudest possible setup. Our only concession to the outside world is a separate phone line for our web connection. One machine, that for historical reasons uses Win2K, connects to the web via a standard dial-up modem.

If we did not also have a simple LAN, Win2K - with recent updates - could be set to hide all ports, so that it would not respond to external queries, and would be "invisible" to hackers doing random searches on the web. In order to have the rest of the machinery connected, we do have a simple "workgroup" LAN setup. Other machines connect to the web via the workgroup using Windows "Internet Connection Sharing" (ICS), which is built in since Win98SE. The port that Win2K has to leave "open" in order to respond to internal LAN signals can be "pinged" via the dial-up modem, hence is "visible" to the outside world.

IF I would use a WinXP machine to make the dial-up connection, WinXP - with current updates - can hide the dial-up port from the web while still responding to internal LAN communications. Win2K, and I believe other earlier Win OS, can't do that.

The visible port is occasionally "found," as evidenced by repeated notices from our software firewall (on the Win2K machine, of course) that someone has attempted to send us a "gift" - almost always a W32. worm of some sort. The firewall stops them all. If the notices get annoying, we can just hang up and redial, and the ISP gives us a new DNS address, so they have to find it again - and they seldom do find it very quickly.

With any high-speed connection, you will likely have an "interface" of some sort that should hide the "visible port(s)" on any machines that go through the internet connection device. Any hardware firewall or router should also hide your "internal" machines completely.

There are a few DSL setups that I've seen that don't appear to provide a good interface, with built-in protections. It is possible that the Win2K "open port" might still be visible with some of these, although I don't have any confirmation of cases where it's happened. It's still worth taking a look at the specifics of any new setup you might be considering, and to let one of the security sites test your existing connection periodically. Regardless of how good your system setup is, there is always the possibility that some "crudmaster" may get spyware on your system that will open ports without your knowledge, so occasional rescans from outside your own system are a good idea.

My own primary reason for not going to a DSL connection is that the only provider in my area REFUSES to provide any specifics, or even to show me their contract, unless I agree to installation. When I asked for a copy of their contract, I was told "we'll give it to you when we do the installation."

John

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Jim McLean
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 04:48 PM

Another good reason for using broadband is that updated downloads, either from AV programs or Win XP, are so large that it would take for ever on a normal 56k analogue modem.

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 06:33 PM

Jim McL -

Actually the Mickey and Norton systems are good enough that it dribbles the XP updates in unseen, and you only know they've arrived when the download is finished and the install kicks in - even on my intermittently functional dial-up. Of course you do have to be connected for long enough periods of time, but I read pretty slowly ...

All I ever see of either OS or AV updates is a flag that slides up to tell me something new has been added, except in the very rare cases where a reboot is requested after the install is done.

If you need a complete update, as with a reinstallation of the OS, you'd best have the CD(s) for the main updates regardless of what connection type you use. But I'm sure everyone ordered them ...

John

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 01:47 AM

I am going BB at the end of June. My wife needs it for the large files she gets from translation companies these days. Main reason doing it.

We are going with a company called Freedom to Surf. http://www.f2s.co.uk/adsl/homeuser.php we are going for the Connect Home package which is the up to 2mbitps with 10 gig cap (I have worked out that our need is 5 gig to 10 gig per month. Very unlikely to go above that.

We have 2 machines running Win XP Home. WE do not want to network the M/C's as each M?C is used for different reasons. We also do not want wires everywhere, so have gone for the USB Belkin Modem Router plus USB adaptors.

A question here. Can I do the setup of the router etc before we get a BB line, so that when we go live, everything is ready. This is important, becuase I need to keep my wifes M/C available for her because of her workload which is always on tight deadlines. Or do you need to have the router etc recognise your ISP etc at the time of installation.

Second question. I keep on seeing comment about disconnecting the internal modem. Does this mean disconnecting and isolating the int modem. Or does it just mean "disconnect the cable from the telephone point. I would like to have the 56K dialup facilty, incase the server from the ISP is down for a lengthy period. My wife is relaint on all her work via the internet.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Les

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 03:49 AM

The router has different cables than the phone dialup modem does. You plug the phone jack into the DSL modem, and from there you plug in to the router. The cable that goes from the router into into the proper plug on the back of the computer is also different, larger, than a regular phone cord. The network part of the computer it connects to isn't the same as the dialup modem, and that's what drives the connection until you have the DSL signal and can use the different port.

The second question: this means yes, disconnect the phone line from the standard phone jack (that goes into the internal modem). Your DSL jack is larger, so they won't get confused. If your DSL dies for some reason, then you can plug in the phone jack to the internal modem if you need it temporarily. Unplug it again--you don't want those devices duking it out.

My computers aren't networked either, but my computer is the one that was used to set up the router and that it is physically plugged into. The kids have the wireless network card.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and spend the money to upgrade to XP Pro, and put in Service Pack 2 and all of the updates. Turn the XP Firewall on (it works in conjunction with your other firewall, Symantec, whatever).

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 03:52 AM

Les, have you got details on the product you are going to use? I'm a bit confused with what you are saying. Is it one of these? I've a feeling you are creating a wireless network (nothing wrong with that except you say you don't want to network - which would mean you can't share a connection to the internet).

I've set up a couple of stand alone USB modems and they have installed OK without needing the ISP details or having ADSL on the line.

If I'm right in guessing what you are getting, you would be able to have a full working network (without Internet access) before getting broadband.

I don't see any reason for removing or disabling the internal modem. Twoe of our PC's have one as does my laptop and my PC has an external serial modem connected. None are normally plugged into the phone line but they have been when broadband has failed. I've noticed that some broadband suppliers even offer thier own dial up account as part of the broadband package.

One point though. The router device I think you are getting is also a firewall so for your broadband connection you do not need software firewalls. Remember though that hardware firewall can only protect you when you are using its broadband connection. It can not protect you if/when you use the dial up.

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 04:00 AM

Your DSL jack is larger, so they won't get confused

Not in the UK, SRS. The phone socket is the larger one on the DSL filter. The DSL socket is an RJ11. The phone is what I call BT.

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 04:11 AM

Here you go SRS, For info, the bottom of this page shows the 2 UK connectors. The one on the left is the RJ11 that   I'm pretty sure you will be familiar with. The one on the right is the BT phone.

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 04:49 AM

Other than making sure you have the right cables (with the right plugs) for your new setup, there's probably not a lot you can do in advance. The router needs to recognize your machines, but the machines also need to recognize the router, so you need everything in place to get a clean setup.

As long as you have a "voice line" and an ISP that allows dial-up connection, you can always fall back to the modem if there are problems with the broadband. Just make sure the dial-up setup isn't selected as default, and it should never try to dial out. You probably will want to remove the cord; but it shouldn't be necessary. (If you just remove the cord and don't tell the "connection" not to dial, it will keep interupting you to tell you there's no dial tone.)

As mentioned, the new router should include a hardware firewall. Remember that it won't be there if you do resort to dial-up, so you probably also want the sofware firewall as well. WinXP Home does include the software firewall, although controls for it are rather crude. The SP2 updates should work ok with XP Home and are necessary on any critical setup. WinXP Pro is a better system and I would recommend that you consider an upgrade on any "$critical$" machine. The security and maintenance tools are vastly superior to XP Home. (Look up "how to safe boot XP Home" and/or "How to use System Restore" if you have doubts.)

The setup stuff you can do before the router is in place is to make absolutely certain that you have recorded (written down neatly) all the connection data, usernames, email addys, and passwords that you'll need to make the connection to her email account. Some of the protocols bound to the connection probably will change a bit with the new connection, but "guessing" about accounts and passwords is a sure path to disaster. And if you're like me, the brain farts just when you need to remember the one critical bit of info that's needed. I always write it all down ... now where did I put that ...

IF YOU GIVE THOSE WRITTEN DOWN PASSWORDS and account names to a techie who helps install your system, change your passwords as soon as you've confirmed the setup. He/she's probably honest, but might leave notes laying out somewhere ... .

If you're inclined to feel that something more is necessary, make a run through Control Panel, Network Connections, and in Hardware Manager, Network devices: hit every "Properties" button you can find, and write down everything.

(Most of what you write down there will be pretty much unnecessary, unless you need to fall back on your dial-up connection but it will keep you busy.)

In the random thoughts category - if you have WinXP Home class machines you probably don't have enormous hard drives, and if she's working a couple of GB per month of files, she's bound to say, sooner or later, "honey can I put just a few files on your machine, just for a couple of days?." Think LAN - seriously.

John

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 05:55 AM

Silly River Sage , Jon and John.
Thanks for the great feedback.

Jon - are you still Ok for the Spotlight Guest on August the 12th at Market Rasen Folk Club? If I remeber right, you said your wife would confirm your availability, but I haven't heard anything since then.

Yes Jon you have got it smack on with the Belkin Modem/Router plus two NIC usb adaptors

I have both machines with the very latest updates (including SP2) on Windows XP Home, so will stick with that. My wife is so busy at the moment, I can't upgrade her.

However by the sounds of it, I can at least set the Modem/Router up in advance. That will save me a bit of work come the revolution.

John
I take note of what you are telling me about making sure I know what is on the machines.
Whilst the files that my wife has to download are large, most of the files are help files that assist my wife whilst she translates. They are not needed once each job is completed. We back the completed jobs off onto CD. She has a 40 gig drive removable hard disk.

It sure pays to do your homework before you take the plunge.

Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 06:31 AM

Les, maybe another poster in this thread is called Jon but I think there might be a case of misidentity here. I'm Jon Freeman and won't be going to Market Rasen - at least not in the forseeable future.

If you want to prepare yourself further, go to Belkin. You should be able to download the manual(s) from there.

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 07:18 AM

Sorry about that Jon. I was thinking, I know Jon is a fine act, but I didn't know he knew so much about PC's :-)

I thought you were Jon Loomes.

I will get those manuals. Thanks for that.

Les Worrall

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 01:31 PM

OK
I have the modem router installed and the USB adaptors are recognising the router and getting strong connection.

The rest I am going to leave until I ma connected to BB.

Many thanks everybody

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 01:57 PM

Since I quit posting to yhr musicish section, ie after the new censors arrived, and also quit using my registered nickname - same reason, I have seen many threads here that are simply not about or related to folk music.

Fine!

Knowing certain members post to these type threads and knowing the off site contacts they may have with other folks in the censorship dept cause observers to comment 'something smells at Mudcat and it ain't a dead fish'

So I wonder as membership and contributions fall, is it not time to light the fire again, stike up a lively folk song and getting rid of the silly divisions/censorship encourage the sort of people that made this place work best.

BTW This IS NOT a musical thread!

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 03:55 PM

Whats your problem sorefingers. This thread has been very helpful with mudcatters doing what they do best. Help each other without slagging each other off.
If you don't like this thread, then stay out of it and stop flaming.

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 18 Jun 05 - 04:53 PM

Many thanks to all who have given advice regarding my original thread posting. Some of the stuff is a bit technical for me to absorb straight away but I will savour it over a short period of time. However, it seems that I should drag myself, kicking and screaming into the 21st century and go BROADBAND!!!! and provided I take proper precautions, there should be no real problems. Ta very much to all.

Regards

Andy

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: rich-joy
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 12:23 AM

We have just gone BB and though I can see an improvement with some website loading - esp those with photos and lotsa graphics - some (like Mudcat) are much the same (and in fact today, Mudcat is excrucciatingly slow!) - so, is this likely to be an individual website problem rather than my connection???
Coz yesterday, my server kept dropping out and then reasserting itself too ...


Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: varsis
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 12:43 AM

Most people know that Broadband is alot better than Dial-up. I would rather be able to download songs in 5 minutes than take half a day to download with dial-up.
                      -AM

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 02:49 AM

To begin with rich joy

Is it a problem with your ISP ?

What is the contention ratio with your ISP and who is the ISP.?

Subject: RE: Tech. Broadband vs. Dial up
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 03:07 AM

rich-joy, it can happen to any site but Mudcat is particularly prone to periods of extreme slowness.

A reasonable indicator is to try other sites and see how they download for you. If they are running slowly too, the odds are the problem lies with you or your ISP. If it's only Mudcat, the chances are it is Mudcat or perhaps (and less likely) something on the route to Mudcat. There is a command line program on Windows called tracert that can show how long each hop is taking. Another thing you can try is Mudcat is to try the backdoor (207.103.108.99/threads.cfm) sometimes you will find the frontdoor working slowly but the backdoor is quick or visa versa.

When Mudcat and everything else is running well, you should find broadband makes a difference. Perhaps not so much for the usual 1 day listing of threads or opening shorter threads but I do when the text gets longer, eg on dialup, I used to find threads getting very slow as 100 posts approached - that's no problem now, although with the really long threads - sat > 200, I do open a page at a time.