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happy? - June 22 (UK board US frigate 'Chesapeak')

DigiTrad:
SHANNON AND CHESAPEAKE


Related thread:
(origins) Origins: Chesapeake and Shannon (17)


Abby Sale 22 Jun 05 - 07:42 AM
Pete Peterson 22 Jun 05 - 04:53 PM
Abby Sale 22 Jun 05 - 09:02 PM
GUEST,Paul Burke 23 Jun 05 - 03:58 AM
Le Scaramouche 23 Jun 05 - 04:03 AM
Abby Sale 23 Jun 05 - 08:22 AM
GUEST,Paul Burke 23 Jun 05 - 10:53 AM
Abby Sale 23 Jun 05 - 04:38 PM
Le Scaramouche 23 Jun 05 - 05:02 PM
GUEST,Paul Burke 24 Jun 05 - 03:48 AM
Abby Sale 24 Jun 05 - 07:56 AM
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Subject: happy? - June 22
From: Abby Sale
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 07:42 AM


British sailors board US frigate Chesapeake and ultimately provoke War of 1812 on 6/22/1807

        You first confined our commerce,
         And said our ships shant trade,
        You next impressed our seamen,
         And used them as your slaves;
        You then insulted Rodgers,
         While ploughing o'er the main,
        And had we not declared war,
         You'd have done it o'er again!

"Ye Parliament Of England," in American Sea Songs & Chanteys, Frank Shay; 1948.

Notes: In June 1807, the Chesapeake sailed for the Mediterranean under James Barron. HMS Leopard stopped her and demanded the right to search for British deserters. When Barron refused, the Leopard opened fire; Barron had to submit, and four of his crew were impressed. The incident almost precipitated war. Shay is a big fan of the 1812 War since, he says, it provided more songs than any other USian war. For some reason, USian songs tend to glorify the valor of USian victories but, inexplicably, ignore UK victories.

Copyright © 2005, Abby Sale - all rights reserved
What are Happy's all about? See Clicky


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Subject: RE: happy? - June 22
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 04:53 PM

I would have thought that the Civil War produced more songs than any other. Aside from the words Mr. Key set to "To Anacreon in Heaven", I can't think of any song from the War of 1812 commonly known today. But the Civil War? LOTS and lots and lots.


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Subject: RE: happy? - June 22
From: Abby Sale
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 09:02 PM

Pete: I'd have thought so, too. That's what Shay said, though. He was pretty good at sea songs & short plays but I don't what he knew of Civil War.

There's "Hunter of KY."

I'm sure (well, pretty sure) the 1812 had more sea songs. Maybe that's what he had in mind.


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Subject: RE: happy? - June 22
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 03:58 AM

" I can't think of any song from the War of 1812 commonly known today. "

Battle of New Orleans? OK, technically, it was fought after the war had finished. And the song was written later. It apparently set back the adoption of rifles by the British army for many years. The battle, that is, not the song.

What was that Tim Hart/ Maddy Prior one about the Stately Southerner? that mentions John Paul Jones.


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Subject: RE: happy? - June 22
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 04:03 AM

Never heard that story about rifles and New Orleans, the Royal Army had been using rifles since the turn of the 19th century, but had never intended for it to replace muskets.


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Subject: RE: happy? - June 22
From: Abby Sale
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 08:22 AM

GUEST,Paul Burke: Not to be disagreeable, but I'm not aware that "Battle of New Orleans" dates from the period. The Ballad Index gives 1935 as earliest published date. (Well before Johnny Horton, though.)

There are a number of JP Jones songs but they are Rev. War - he died in 1792.

But there were many good songs of the 1812. And some good ones at that. Not to forget northern ones during the invasion of Canada - Lake Erie and all. I don't know how many are "commonly known today" besides the two mentioned. I'll have a look through my songbooks over the weekend.

BTW, this is actually a serious side (out of the not-so-serious sides) of the Happy File, to refresh songs that had some meaning but are much overlooked now.


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Subject: RE: happy? - June 22
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 10:53 AM

No, looking it up, you are right- the BONO was in the 1814/1815 war. I fact, till I looked it up, I thought the two wars were all one. Was that the last time we fought each other?

I wonder why someone thought to revive memories of the BONO in the 1930s?


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Subject: RE: happy? - June 22
From: Abby Sale
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 04:38 PM

:-) No, that's the same war. Just that that actual battle took place after the war was technically over. Bad communications, the 'Net was probably down that day. The UK burned Washington DC, the US invaded Canada and the pirate (except like all pitates, he could easily prove he was a privateer) Jean Lafitte took over New Orleans waters, kept the British running and the Hunters of Kentucky saved the day.

That was the last time unless you count Iraq. Been all economic jostling since.


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Subject: RE: happy? - June 22
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 05:02 PM

The reason it took place when there was technicaly peace was the slowness of communications. Not the first time it happened.


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Subject: RE: happy? - June 22
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 03:48 AM

OK, but why dredge it up again in the 30s?

Anyway, I found out about the last UK (Canada)/ US war- no casualties, except a pig:

The Pig War

Links there for several happies in years to come!


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Subject: RE: happy? - June 22
From: Abby Sale
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 07:56 AM

OK, but why dredge it up again in the 30s?

That's another thing, totally. At this point one of the mysteries of folklore.

An old song but this was the first record of it?
An old song but someone found a now-lost record of it & brought it back?
A new song by a professional singer and "passed off as an old song?"

"Pig War" - great. Never heard of it before. I wonder if there were any songs...


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