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BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl

GUEST 22 Jun 05 - 10:37 PM
mack/misophist 22 Jun 05 - 10:51 PM
dianavan 23 Jun 05 - 02:11 AM
Kaleea 23 Jun 05 - 02:43 AM
*daylia* 23 Jun 05 - 09:10 AM
Sandra in Sydney 23 Jun 05 - 09:15 AM
katlaughing 23 Jun 05 - 09:43 AM
GUEST,crazy little woman 23 Jun 05 - 10:54 AM
GUEST,Mrr 23 Jun 05 - 11:35 AM
gnu 23 Jun 05 - 01:25 PM
Don Firth 23 Jun 05 - 01:39 PM
*daylia* 23 Jun 05 - 01:41 PM
Don Firth 23 Jun 05 - 01:52 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jun 05 - 08:20 PM
Ebbie 23 Jun 05 - 09:01 PM
Ebbie 23 Jun 05 - 09:06 PM
Ebbie 23 Jun 05 - 09:12 PM
katlaughing 23 Jun 05 - 11:04 PM
GUEST,Skipy 24 Jun 05 - 04:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Jun 05 - 06:26 PM
Troll 24 Jun 05 - 07:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Jun 05 - 07:24 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 24 Jun 05 - 09:18 PM
Ebbie 24 Jun 05 - 09:47 PM
SINSULL 24 Jun 05 - 10:25 PM
katlaughing 24 Jun 05 - 11:42 PM
LadyJean 25 Jun 05 - 01:06 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 25 Jun 05 - 01:15 AM
GUEST,paigekms 03 Jul 05 - 06:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Jul 05 - 06:59 PM
Ebbie 03 Jul 05 - 07:01 PM
katlaughing 03 Jul 05 - 08:27 PM
Kaleea 04 Jul 05 - 01:13 AM
alanabit 04 Jul 05 - 04:03 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 05 Jul 05 - 12:06 AM
dianavan 05 Jul 05 - 02:30 AM
GUEST 05 Jul 05 - 02:33 AM
GUEST,gargle 05 Jul 05 - 02:36 AM
GUEST,kat coming through the back door 05 Jul 05 - 09:52 AM

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Subject: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 10:37 PM

Yeah, the source looks suspisious but it also on The Wire Reports. "Police Say Lions Guarded Abducted Girl" A 12-year-old girl who was abducted and beaten by men trying to force her into a marriage was found being guarded by three lions who apparently had chased off her captors.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-af/2005/jun/21/062107700.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: mack/misophist
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 10:51 PM

One animal expert (sorry, don't remember who or what kind, some one from a game preserve) said that her crying may have attracted them. Lions, it seems have an instinct to protect cubs from other animals. He suspected she sounded like a cub in distress.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 02:11 AM

I think this is a great story but where's the picture of the girl?

If this story is true, I think the girl is pretty special and should get a little recognition. Something tells me this story is just that - a story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: Kaleea
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 02:43 AM

Sometimes the parents of a minor child who has gone through a traumatic event do not want for their child to be the focus of a media rampage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: *daylia*
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 09:10 AM

Could this have been the lion's mane motive?

Oh c'mon now, it's not that hard to believe ... see?   

;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 09:15 AM

the story was also in our broadsheet today, without a pic tho. I assume it would have also been in our tabloid, but none of my colleagues had it today, so I didn't see it. No doubt the tabloid would have had a pic if it was available.

sandra


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 09:43 AM

Google has several reports of this listed in their news section. I thought this point, by one author, was well-made:

Among certain groups of people in Ethiopia there is a tribal custom that involves "marriage by abduction". Young girls are kidnapped, beaten and raped until they become pregnant. The abductors, aware that parents still demand a dowry for young virgin daughters as high as $500 Canadian, consider abduction a much cheaper method of securing a wife. Once a girl has been raped and beaten, the price goes down considerably to as low as $60 and a good horse. In all cases, the abductors are grown men sometimes 15 to 20 years older than the child.

Worldwide it is estimated that there are at least 50 million young girls who are forced into mostly violent arranged marriages. Some are as young as 7 but most are 12 to 14 years old. Because the practice was largely ignored by the global community and mired in local custom and secrecy for so long, it wasn't until 2001 that the practice was officially denounced as a human-right violation by the United Nations.

The UN proclamation unfortunately has not put an end to the practice but has forced participants further into the shadows of isolation. According to a Chicago Tribune article written by Paul Salopek, in Ethiopia's most remote and rural regions, it has been estimated that at least 82% of all brides are the result of arranged unions and marriage by kidnapping. In an area where virginity is considered sacred, children are forced into marriage years before they reach puberty because of their fear that the girls' first menses will be mistaken as the sign of premarital intercourse.

So, if the lions hadn't rescued this young girl from her kidnappers that day, this article would not have been written. A more spiritual person might suggest that in rescuing one young girl, the lions brought attention to the plight of millions.

Maybe it's time to pay attention..


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 10:54 AM

Re "I think this is a great story but where's the picture of the girl?"

Stop and think. Would gamewardens and villagers in a remote part of Ethiopia be carrying cameras and film with them while searching the outback for a missing child? These are people who don't even have enough to eat. Why would they have cameras?

Have you ever tried to photograph a wild animal? If so, you know that those lions (if they existed) would have been fleeing your presence well before you had a chance to get out a camera and frame a shot.

Why would the girl's family want to document her uncertain status as a virgin? Given their draconian culture, they would want to keep the whole thing as quiet as possible.
-----------
The Kansas City Star carried an article about child "marriage" (slavery, really) in Ethiopia. The practice is illegal, but it continues.

I don't know if Ethiopians have radio, but if they do, then I think broadcasting songs which castigate these cruel men and validate the worth of the girls might be helpful. There would have to be many of them played for a long time, but after a while the idea might become part of their culture.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 11:35 AM

My take is that they were taking someone else's prey but weren't hungry yet. Lions are not well known for not eating cubs...


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 01:25 PM

Maybe they really were saving her, for later.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 01:39 PM

There are a fair number of stories of predatory animals protecting the young of other species.

I heard this story a couple of times yesterday from a couple of different news sources. The theory was that the whimpering of the girl (it's certainly understandable that under the circumstances she would be terrified) sounded much like the mewing of a lion cub and triggered a protective instinct in the lions. This was the view of a lion expert who was being interviewed about the story.

Could be wrong, of course, but the story, especially the way the news services presented it, sounded genuine to me.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: *daylia*
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 01:41 PM

That's what the 'experts' are saying, according to this article...

far from displaying highly unusual empathy with a human being, the lions were almost certainly preparing to eat or attack the girl when they were surprised by police searching for the missing youngster...

Colonel Lemma Legesse, a professional big game hunter, said the lions, having chased off the larger humans, were probably getting ready to devour the helpless girl, as they would any other prey, when they were interrupted.

Ketma Amberber, head of the zoological and natural history museum at Addis Ababa University, echoed that sentiment and offered another theory as well.   "This was just pure luck, it was not a question of guarding the girl or keeping her safe," he said. "Either the lions had already eaten and were full or the police arrived as they were deciding whether to eat her or attack."


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 01:52 PM

Sounds reasonable to me, daylia. Probably a matter of lucky timing.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 08:20 PM

Whether true or not, it's a great story anyway.

And in the light of this recent episode, where a lioness in Kenya adopted a series of baby antelopes, it doesn't in fact sound particularly improbable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 09:01 PM

Lovely story, McGrath. The body language in the picture shows a relaxed and protective lioness. Neat.

However, unless the lioness has mastered the further art of reading, I rather doubt this statement: "Local newspapers have noted that all three adoptions occurred on significant days - Christmas, Valentine's Day and Good Friday." Since no one has claimed seeing the lioness in the actual act of adopting the baby oryx, it seems more likely that humans first viewed the unusual connection on a holiday.

To me, this story makes the first story - that of lions protecting the the abducted girl - more believable. As far as the hunters' take on the situation is concerned- as they say, 'Everything looks like a nail to the man whose only tool is a hammer.'


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 09:06 PM

Lovely story, McGrath. The body language in the picture shows a relaxed and protective lioness. Neat.

However, unless the lioness has mastered the further art of reading, I rather doubt this statement: "Local newspapers have noted that all three adoptions occurred on significant days - Christmas, Valentine's Day and Good Friday." Since no one has claimed seeing the lioness in the actual act of adopting the baby oryx, it seems more likely that humans first viewed the unusual connection on a holiday.

To me, this story makes the first story - that of lions protecting the the abducted girl - more believable. As far as the hunters' take on the situation is concerned- as they say, 'Everything looks like a nail to the man whose only tool is a hammer.'


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 09:12 PM

Still a lovely story. *G*


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 11:04 PM

That story, about the lioness and the antelope was documented and shown on Animal Planet earlier this year. It was quite extraordinary.

I'd like to hear whst Jane Goodall has to say about this. Her new series, When Animals Speak, has been really interesting. She is of a mind that perhaps we are the ones who need to learn how, or remember how, to communicate and that animals, in some cases, really are waiting for us to sort of reconnect with the kind of communications animals have throughout the planet. She had some great examples of animals which have chosen to communicate with humans and how much it has changed their relationships.

Sri Aurobindo had a vegetarian lioness companion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: GUEST,Skipy
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 04:33 PM

Our rugby team is wonderful!
Skipy.
p.s. Read "just like an animal" by Maurice Burton.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 06:26 PM

Well, we humans have pets, and often get concerned about vulnerable animals. Why should we be so surprised if our non-human relatives sometimes share this characteristic?

Increasingly we are discovering that other animals share all kinds of behaviours that were traditionally seen as exclusively human, and perhaps this is another of these.

I remember there was a similar kind of story a few years back from somewhere in the Balkans I think, with a bear protecting a child. And there was the case of a gorilla in a zoo looking after an injured boy who had fallen into the ape's enclosure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: Troll
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 07:04 PM

Kat,I didn't know that you could have a vegetarian feline. I thought that their physiology required an amino acid that they could get only from meat.

The noted animal activist Cleveland Amory feeds (or fed) his cat(s)ocean perch twice a week for this reason, as do several vegan friends.


troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 07:24 PM

It'd be difficult for a cat to survive on a purely vegetarian diet, forn the reason Troll gave (unlike a dog in this respect).

There's a tiger sanctuary in Thailand run by Buddhist monks where they give the tigers' meat that's been prepared in such a way that it doesn't look like meat, or taste like meat, but they still like the taste. The idea isn't just that the monks are being sqeamish about meat - it reduces the chance of a tiger accidentally twigging that people are made of the same kind of stuff they eat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 09:18 PM

Yes, it is real!! An old friend of mine was lost when he was a baby on a camping trip near Yellowstone. He was found and raised for several years by wolves. Eventually he was found and it was figured he was about 12 years old. He was less than human and uncouth to the enth degree, but eventually he became acculturated to some degree. Got a degree from the local 2-year community college. Sadly, he was killed chasing a car.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 09:47 PM

You can take the child out of the wilderness but you can't take the wilderness out of the child, I guess. It would neve have happened though if there hadn't been so many cars running through the wilderness. Another reason for keeping the wild in wilderness, say I.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 10:25 PM

SIGH! Thank you Art. I needed that. But I heard he died peeing on an ungrounded water fountain in Central Park.

However... a few years back, there was a boy with Down's Syndrome who was taken in, fed, and kept warm by a pack of wild dogs. He had been abandoned in the woods by his family who could no longer deal with his care. I will have to GOOGLE the details.

And, of course, Elian Gonzales was protected by dolphins before being plucked from the sea. Hopefully this mention will not revive the plethora of threads on that subject.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 11:42 PM

Say, Art, did that boy know of your relative who had the toothpick from J. Bridger?**BG**

Troll, I know. I cannot remember the details of Sri Aurobindo's companionship with the lioness. I did have a friend who was vegetarian. what she cooked for herself, her cats and dogs also ate, BUT she did add canned tuna for the cats as the would lose their sight without whatever is in it. Inthe case of S.A. I would suspect there was more of a spiritual transcendence, if you will, which may have allowed her to go without. I'll have to ask my brother as he studied about S.A. and read the stories of the lioness years ago.

katvegetarianwhoalsoeatstuna:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: LadyJean
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 01:06 AM

I had a very nice visit with my sister in Chicago last week. I spent a morning at the Field Museum, and saw the stuffed remains of the famous lions of Tsavo, two man eaters who attacked railroad workers in Africa. (They were made famous in "The Ghost and the Darkness") The Field Museum is doing a project now, on why some lions acquire a taste for homo sapiens. Most wild animals don't care for people. We don't taste very good.
I considered buying a Lions of Tsavo baseball cap, but decided I didn't want to give my cats any ideas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 01:15 AM

My dearest Laugh-Kat....

PLEASE credit the sources for your "factual" postings.

Sincerely (glad you better)
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: GUEST,paigekms
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 06:51 PM

I heard a story about 12 lions protecting a lost little girl from a bear. The lions killed the bear who was after the girl,they surrounded her and waited until someone came to save her. Is this story true or is this a case of one story at "A" and when we get to "Z" it is another story. Could this story have been originated by the 3 lions protecting the little girl from her abductors? I was told it happened a week ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 06:59 PM

We don't taste very good.

That's not what I've always understood. We're supposed to taste rather like pigs, perhaps because we have the same kind of mixed diet - and you can't beat a bacon sandwich or a pork chop... (But of course that doesn't mean lions would necessarily see it the same way.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 07:01 PM

Doesn't 'long pig' taste kind of like chicken?


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 08:27 PM

garg, there is a picture and comment about the vegetarian lioness in Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda. I believe it is in Chapter 42.

I'm glad I am better, too, thanks!

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: Kaleea
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 01:13 AM

I remembered that vegetarian lioness, too Kat!
    Here's another take on the subject. I was talking about this lion-girl incident with a friend who is originally from Burma . She told me that there it is accepted by many in Burma (now Myonmar, I think?) that those who have died may appear as an animal for one reason or another. She told me of how her grandfather always told her that he would come back to see them as a panther. When a large black panther appeared at the door the day after his funeral, her grandmother was terrified, but she was not. She says the panther was there for a few days until her grandmother finally came out to see him. Only then did he leave.    She told me that it is common that a deceased relative comes back in the form of an animal tod help their loved ones. This woman was totally serious when she told me this. There are other cultures around the world who believe these things to be true. In fact, my Choctaw & Cherokee family members, & friends of other tribes & bands have talked of this, too. I have not seen it myself, though. Not that I know of, anyway.
    Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 04:03 PM

A part of me can't help hoping that the men get to hear about this and that at least some of them believe the story. If a man thinks that kidnapping and raping a young girl might result in HIM being yomped by a lion, it might just change his plans for the evening. I certainly hope word gets around...


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 12:06 AM

And pagans question - if there is difference between the CHRIST-in and the non-world?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 02:30 AM

Whaaaaat?????????????


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 02:33 AM

English is his second language. Or third.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: GUEST,gargle
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 02:36 AM

Early for your dope today gargyleol


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Subject: RE: BS: Lions Guard Abducted Girl
From: GUEST,kat coming through the back door
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:52 AM

Thanks, Kaleea. Good points and beautiful story...I always wanted a black panther for a companion when I was a kid. Always have had a black cat, at least.:-)

The Dalai Lama has spoken of Tibetan monks coming back as dogs at and near the Potala Palace in Tibet and elsewhere. He cautions all to be kind to them.

kat


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