BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 12:43 AM

Well, I went to a nearby mall to see it, and the audience seemed like normal enough folks. The movie was a disappointment, though. Spielberg was melodramatic, Cruise inadequate. His daughter was a real marvel.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 11:24 PM

LOL Love the story.

A segue: A friend of mine and her brother went to see Psycho (I think-,,suddenly I'm not sure which movie it was) when they were in their early teens.

They got out of the theatre at about 11:00 and commenced to walk the few blocks to their hone. Suddenly a tarp (she thinks) rattled in the breeze and, screaming at the top of their lungs, both kids went into a headlong panicked run the rest of the way home. She says she could see lights flash on in the dark houses along their way, one after another after another after another...

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 03:46 PM

Sorry. That should read Fifth Avenue Bridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 03:43 PM

I saw the original at a movie place in the basement of a Presbyterian church in Montreal. It then cost $.25 to get in and chips were a nickle a bag, pop a dime and there was a choice of five or ten cent chocolate bars. Every Friday night there was a new movie, but there was also about 20 minutes of a cliff hanger. I guess I was ten when I saw the movie and I was very impressed by the special effects, especially the beams of light that came out of the Martian attack ships. I lived about two miles from the 'theatre', and the movie let out at about 11:00 PM. I walked home that evening with my good friend, Don. It was dark, and there was not much traffic on the streets. We were passing an alley when a cat (I'm guessing) knocked the lid off a metal garbage can. Don and I stopped running about a half mile later after we crossed over the Fifth Aven Bridge that connected Verdun and Cote St Paul. The bridge spanned a disused canal, and after the vampire movies (and because we knew that vampires couldn't cross running water) that bridge was the target to reach before all the blood was sucked from our bodies by humans disguised as bats. Anyway, that's my memory of War of the Worlds. Tom Cruise, Scientology and scantily clad females (I am guessing there will be some) won't be able to top that memory for me. Hope y'all enjoy the show, and if you hear any garbage can lids smacking the pavement in a dark lane, run real fast and cross a bridge. It worked for Don and me.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 03:25 PM

For my daughters 14th birthday, she wants to see the new film War of The Worlds in the Uk.
However I see that Tom Cruise is in it.

Is it likely that a mob of scientologists are likely to swoop on my daughter and her friends and convert them?
Should I send bodyguards with them?

Serious answers please LOL :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 03:10 PM

LOL, Bruce. :D

A

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 01:24 AM

hahhah

I've never been on a cruise- the closest I ever came to it was on an Alaska State ferry one Christmas Day when there were only 24 people on board. Felt like my own private yacht.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 01:15 AM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jul 05 - 01:15 AM

"Who? Is he an actor? In something current?"

Tom Cruise is a missile that can be launched from ships, boats, aircraft or ground. The masculine Cruise Missiles (those that don't ever ask for directions and so sometimes get lost) are called Tom. The feminine variety are called

are you ready for this?
















































Imona.

HA HA HA

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 11:34 PM

I will go to see War of the Worlds to see what Spielberg has done with this classic story. I can see no reason to boycott the film purely because the leading man shows himself up as an empty headed fool.

With regard to his influencing others I think that advertisers in general do that every day of the week. For my own part I consider that organised religion in general can be unhealthily influencial to the gullible.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 11:12 PM

Frank,

I never went to his movies to begin with. I'm already at a Cruise deficit, so what's a body to do? (I don't shop at Walmart, either.)

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Frankham
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 10:36 PM

Alice,

Tom Cruise is insensitive on this issue for sure. Why bother to sign a petition? If you don't care for what he says or does, avoid his movies. Or you could write letters to the movie company that hires him. Tell them what you think. A petition just calls attention to his stupidity in making this a public issue. I guarantee you there are those who will side with him.

Actually, he will continue to be popular and make movies about nothing because people want this.

What he should do is apologize to Brooke Shields and women in general. He should remember that women put him where he is in the first place. Does that tell you something about where our popular culture is these days?

OK sign a petition if you think it helps any. Personally, I think the best way is a boycott. I don't shop at Walmarts. Now I will avoid his movies.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 10:07 PM

I don't much care what Tom Cruise believes or doesn't believe but even if he disagrees with the use of drugs by Brooke Shields, he had no right to use her name to make a point. The decision to use medically prescribed drugs is a personal decision and should not be discussed publicly. If he discussed her medical condition in an interview, it only shows how little he knows about post partum depression.

Maybe he should run over to her house and change a few diapers and feed the bawling baby, make her a cup of tea and give her a foot massage if he wants to be helpful. Anything other than that is just adding to her misery. Maybe he should try giving birth and never getting a good nights sleep for months.

Post partum depression is real only I didn't know what to call it when I experienced it. I wondered why other new mothers were so happy and I was so miserable. I felt so alone and so isolated. I can only describe it as feeling numb. Luckily, Dad was a tremendous help and after a couple of months, I got the swing of it. Not all mothers are so lucky.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:25 PM

Alice:

I beg to differ with you on a couple of key points. First, the subject of Dianetics itself was surviving the controversy stirred up by Hubbard's exaggerations and the controversy he engendered witht he APA and AMA. But another, more important change, had more to do with the transition to Scientology. Early Dianetics, involved with tracing traumatic experiences through prior chains of similar associated experiences, made a hypothesis that since all traumatic chains seem to center around the incident of birth, it was possible that the key element in resolving human neurosis and psychosis lay in addressing that period of time. But people, being ornery as they are, did not uniformly respond by turning into "clears" when birth traumas were addressed. Instead, they began to come up with pre-birth experiences. The code of conduct which governs Dianetics requires that the practitioner accept whatever information the client comes up with, without challenging it. This principle is also espoused by some, but not all, other psychological practices. Rogerian therapy is a case in point.

Anyway, in a significant number of cases, people came up with not only pre-birth but prior lifetime experiences. THis shattered the Dianetic model of memory and mind, which up to that time was brain and cell-based. Several years of trials and testing of one angle or another on this question led to a couple of conclusions. One was that there were enough instances of this sort of thing to be meaningful, and that addressing such experiences as genuine produced relief of affect and symptoms in enough cases to make it mandatory not to ignore them; because it was found when they were ignored, and the client was constrained only to running this lifetime's experiences, they did not achieve those results. And at that time, the hope of achieving results was the major motivation of all Dianetic activities.

Unfortunately the notion of prior lifetimes was not popular, and the then Board of the Dianetic Foundation tried to insist that these findings be suppressed in order not to interfere with the popularity wave Dianetics was still enjoying, by dampening the enthusiasm of the market.

Hubbard chose, instead, to expand the model to include these discoveries, and migrated to a spiritual rather than a cellular model of thought and its concomitant confusions. This meant trying to learn more about the entity that survived from one lifetime to another, its role in human nature and its potentialities. Since the Board at the time would not release the copyrights and trademarks of Dianetics, Hubbard founded an organization around this rather dramatic new direction, which was called scientology. He later won back the Dianetic trademarks in litigation, a course of action he was perhaps overly fond of.

So I think your shorthand popular press version is perhaps less well-researched than you assert, and your facts are a bit too few to justify your conclusions, or those of your sources.

I have compiled this abridged history from Hubbard's writings, conversations with him and those who knew him, and the dates of various technical papers he published on his explorations.

The argument about using religion to describe the activities of the organization once it made the leap from the cellular model to the more spirit-centric one is complicated, but essentially I think it was justifiable given the territory into which he was entering at the time.

In the final analysis, I don't really much care about the organization he left behind, as I find it, like the Church of Rome, to be heavy-handed and dogmatic, as to a large degree he himself became in later years. As, too, the Mormons, Baptists, Muslims and Jaynes have become. The notion of spiritual renewal or discovery gets old very fast when it is mixed up with sanctimony, unwarranted authority and dogmatic certainty, IMHO, regardless of what label is used to brand it.

But I do like to get all sides of the story onto the table; I think that is only fair.

A.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:03 PM

L. Ron Hubbard disappeared years ago, didn't he? Has he ever turned up? (I am not interested enough in his story to bother to research this, I'll just throw the question out there). I remember when Dianetics was such a big hit, so have tended it ignore the whole thing--Hubbard was debunked years ago. Good ol' Sixty Minutes did him in, as I recall.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Alice
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 02:38 PM

sorry, didn't finish one of my sentences above,..." Hubbard started CoS when he was in trouble for his claims about mental health care.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Alice
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 02:36 PM

SRS wrote:
Does Cruise's lack of understanding of the issues involving depression and drugs that treat it have ANYTHING to do with Scientology, any more
than it has to do with Christianity? Or Judaism or Hinduism? I don't think so. I think the man just isn't as informed on this issue as he could be, regardless of his religion.
------

SRS, he is not just ill-informed, he is promoting the agenda of CoS, which the group grooms all of its celebrities to do. Hubbard started CoS when he was

Nothing I have posted here is "rumor". It is well-researched fact. Whether it is CoS or any other group out to vicitimize and recruit the vulnerable, I believe people should have information so they can be fully informed to make their own decisions. FULLY INFORMED OF FACTS... that is my point.

CoS was not a religion when Hubbard started it. As Dianetics, it was a pseudoscientific practice that made untrue claims about mental health. He started the Church of Scientology because Hubbard was getting into trouble for making claims he could not substantiate. By creating a church he protected himself. That way, anyone who criticized it could be written off as a "bigot".

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 01:09 PM

Well in fairness Tom did manage to cure Dustin Hoffman of Autism - didn't he?

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 12:17 PM

An example is juxtaposing beliefs about the Temple of the Golden Globes, and Meatspace.

Amos, you have written about both, extensively... what's up with THAT!? Perhaps before pursuing the more potentially divisive topics in comparative religion, you might wrestle with that one?

Ya know, I yam orful sorry, but I fail to see any wrassling match here. We are all stuck half in and half out of meat space, and if we cannot laugh about it a bit, we are sorry sacks indeed. It is obvious to me and I hope to others that the compulsion to watch breasts in American males is very much a meatspace phenomenon, a cry of some brainless protoplasmic something-or-other and that any attempt to elevate it to the level of a religion is merely a humorous commentary on the rather mellerdramatic nature of "religions" in meatspace, which are comic operas in their own right.

And I see nothing divisive, particularly, about the things I have said -- at least they don't divide me! :D I was simply standing up against a wave of rather scurrilous rumor-mongering and generalized nabobbery, as is certainly my right.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 11:37 AM

Mag:

His stand against the use of psychoactive pharmaceuticals is Scientology-derived, whether it is well-informed or not. It is the C of S' position, generally, that "psychiatric" drugs are more suppressors than helpers to the being within, and that "depression" is, to over-simplify somewhat, essentially a problem of the psyche, not a problem of chemistry; therefore to insist on its being chemical in nature is to worsen the situation by inserting a wrong diagnosis and adding to the myriad false data the being is already wrestling with.

Obviously, all this has some merit, as Frank Hamilton points out above, but to hold it as an absolutist position is, I think, a little too easy, for the reasons covered in Brooke SHields' piece.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 11:34 AM

Does Cruise's lack of understanding of the issues involving depression and drugs that treat it have ANYTHING to do with Scientology, any more than it has to do with Christianity?

YES. It is not a lack of understanding-- it's a programmed rant FROM Scientology, that supports Scn's marketing plan to distinguish itself from the competition.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 11:31 AM

I am sure there are many organizational similarities between Scn and any other organized "religion," because organizations of all sorts tend to have certain similarities that come with becoming organized and from operating as an organization over time. But this does not equate to an assumption that they are all equally well-intentioned, equally positive in their effects on indivuduals and groups, or potentially harmful/beneficial. The underlying beliefs (both the openly/intentionally held sort and unexamined or covert assumptions) play roles that create difference.

It's also very interesting how beliefs people hold can collide, when one juxtaposes them. An example is juxtaposing beliefs about the Temple of the Golden Globes, and Meatspace.

Amos, you have written about both, extensively... what's up with THAT!? Perhaps before pursuing the more potentially divisive topics in comparative religion, you might wrestle with that one?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 11:19 AM

Alice said: Many Scient. members have no clue about what CoS is really about because they were carefully indoctrinated to believe that anyone who has anything critical to say is an enemy. The members are generally shielded from hearing the truth as part of the programming.

The same can be said about any of the organized industrial religions. The opiate for the masses, Marx called them, with very good reason. And I like this, from Bertrand Russell: "Religion in any shape or form is regarded [by Russell] as pernicious and deliberate falsehood, spread and encouraged by rulers and clerics in their own interests, since it is easier to control over the ignorant."

Any time you have organized religions and practitioners who accept it all without critical thought you'll have abuses. I agree with Amos and Frankham on this (to no one's surprise).

I read a few entries in this thread when it first started, and back then it was just silly. I wonder now at all of the things jumbled together in this thread, with very little thoughtful consideration behind it. Next we'll be reading that someone is practicing cannibalism because they read Jonathan Swift. Nonsensical leaps and conclusions are just that--nonsensical.

Does Cruise's lack of understanding of the issues involving depression and drugs that treat it have ANYTHING to do with Scientology, any more than it has to do with Christianity? Or Judaism or Hinduism? I don't think so. I think the man just isn't as informed on this issue as he could be, regardless of his religion.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 10:56 AM

Susan:

I intentionally inverted the subjects of Christianity and Scientology in your quote to make a point. You use the word research a bit loosely, I think, but I think you and I would both agree that the difference between subject and systematized organization of subject is very wide. You have often protested this difference in respect to Christianity (the original subject) and Christianity (the systematized practice and organization).

You may stand by anything you choose to, but that will not make it more accurate or fair.

My comments as regards Christianity are also reflections on the system and the damage it does -- which is extensive -- not the people bamboozled by it and programmed by it to perpetuate the bamboozle.

The fact is that organizing religion is a perversion of that which it pretends to be. The truest religion is the most individual, by its nature, and seeking group agreement about it is a sorry substitute, IMHO. I don't much care whether it is the Church of Bob, Ron, Bigfoot or Yaweh, I think this holds true.

Except of course for the Temple of the Golden Curve, where group participation simply amplifies the delights of the learning curve and puts people more in touch.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 10:19 AM

Amos-- to repeat, "My experience with the damage Scientology does to smart, good people...."

Not my ignorance. Experience. Research. Time spent listening to people asking for help in recovery.

And BTW when you "quoted" me, instead of a copy/paste you inserted the word "Christianity" in place of my abbreviation for Scientology. :~)


I stand by my post. I bet others commenting on Scn have some experience, too.

I would also point out that I commented negatively on the system of Scn and ther damage it does-- not the people bamboozled by it who have been programmed to pass on the bamboozle. Others' comments have similarly been aimed at the system, not its victims.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: GUEST,Nellie Clatt
Date: 03 Jul 05 - 10:16 AM

If Amos is not a scientologist he's a bloody good apologist for them

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Frankham
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 02:19 PM

I tend to agree with Amos about the unilateral conditioning of many religious organizations which include branches of Christiantiy, Hinduism, Judaism, Catholicism, Islam, etc. Not all religious observance need to be dissed out of hand, though.
But my mantra is keep the Separation Between Church and State high.

On the issue of anti-depressants, there is a case to be made for both sides of this issue.

1. In some instances, anti-depressants are helpful to some lives.

At the same time, many psychaitrists have become too eager today to give out narcotics because it's easier than dealing with behavioral solutions.

2. Brooke has a point that in some cases, behavioral adjustment is not possible. The pills help.

Tom has a point that it's too easy to rely on pills and excercise does help those who are suffering from depression and are able to do so.

3. This Brooke/Tom issue sounds a little like WMD, weapons of mass distraction when there are more important aspects with which to deal like getting out of Iraq.

At the same time, depression is one of the number one causes of suicide and it can't be minimalized as a disease. It's serious.

My conclusion is that it's important to see the medical abuse of pills and weigh that against the ability of people to follow a behavioral program that would free them from drugs.

So, Scientology aside ( or whatever brand of cult is being sold)
both Brooke and Tom are correct.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: fat B****rd
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 02:12 PM

Some years ago whilst Ms. Kidman was appearing in London. Mr. C walked round to the Blockbuster (Video Rental Shop) to er..hire a video. The Shop Person quite correctly asked him for proof of identity, which he didn't have. Despite the fact that his face was on several covers on the shelves Mr. C did not have a hissy fit (unlike Mrs. Thatcher in the supermarket) but went home.
If he still has a similar mentality to that then he can't be all bad.
I loved The Last Samurai.
PS In the UK the sale of Man Utd is a real cause for petitions. Priorities anyone ??

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Alice
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 12:40 PM

Amos, no matter what kind of group, religious or otherwise, crime is wrong. Of course religions through history have done horrible deeds. That doesn't mean we should ignore destructive acts today. Whether it is pedophilia, financial con schemes, whatever... religious groups, old ones and new, do not have the right to be destructive just because they are religions. Many Scient. members have no clue about what CoS is really about because they were carefully indoctrinated to believe that anyone who has anything critical to say is an enemy. The members are generally shielded from hearing the truth as part of the programming.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 12:22 PM

Organized religion is the bane of humanity, Villan. But the behaviour you encountered is the behaviour of the organization, not the subject, and not the self-selcted action of the individuals involved. Rather it is a kind of mass-think that the individuals fall in to when they are wrapped up in an organized power structure. They are completely responsible for participating in it, of course, but it is valuable to make the distinction between what they might do outside such an environment.

A manipulative, scheming, self-defensive, conceited organization does not seem to hurt a religion the way it might hurt a retail business, for some reason. The Vatican's hierarchy, the Jesuits, and the right-wing Republican Party come to mind as examples of comparable arrogance. All nutsy religious organizations, all convinced they know what is right and what is best for you, and willing to put you in a hammer-lock to make it happen.

A ridiculous and pitiable phenomenon, to be sure, wherever it is found. SPare me from their salvation, no matter what color it is painted. A salvation which exonerates and even prompts such abuse is absurd, cartoon salvation much to be avoided.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 11:55 AM

They are manipulative Amos and once they have your name and address (unless you secretly move) they pump you unmercifully with letters and they don't give up even if you threaten them.

I know cause it happened to me, but fortunately I had the sense to resist their pressures. All theri lettesr went in the bin and there were a lot. Damn nuisance they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 10:46 AM

With all due respect, I have known more Scientologists than I know Mudcatters. And they are, by and large, cheerful, intelligent, funny and humane people. THey love, laugh, think and work very much the same way you do. And if you prick them, they bleed.

I suggest that those of you who offer to explain to others what the "real story" behind Scientology is, without having bothered to learn about, should sign up and take a few courses. Or at least know betterthan to get your "dirt" from popular journals.

Almost every criticism you have leveled at Scientology is applicable to almost every religion. Here's an example from the charitable Mrs WYSIWYG, who has in the past so heavily objected to people writing negatively about her own religious ox:

And I don't think that concerns about Christianity are about "tolerance" or "diversity," either. My experience with the damage Christianity does to smart, good people started long before my life in Scientology. More than anything else that concerns me about Christianity, is the way free will is taken and subsumed by the Christianity programming-- while being offered as the height of personal freedom. The inner workings of that programming are profound-- down to the way our brains work, our minds function, our identity is experienced. It's DEEP intrusion on Selfhood-- in the "name" of Self!

A lot of Christianity crap is a straight rip-off/re-jargoning of simple earlier judgementalism. It steals what it purports to condemn and makes hay on that, all at the same time."

This statement, and others like it, demonstrate remarkable willingness to condemn out of ignorance.

I think you lot should be embarassed at your own spiteful conduct. You think Scientology's imaginary playmates are bad? Do a side-by-side checklist of characteristics attributed to thetans and those attributed to angels, CHrist, God, etc. You'll find ass much to ridicule on one side as the other.

Don't care for science fiction stories of origins? How about "Once upon a time this giant spiritual being waved his hand, and Space existed. And this same spiritual being really wants to know how much you want that new motorcycle, and will punish you for playing with your peepee...And he made you, owns you, watches you ALL the time, and is much too big to fuck around with."   At least Scientology's imaginary history has an end date.

If you don't like the idea that religion has contributed to deaths, I suggest you steer clear from Christianity, which was directly responsible for the terror, torture and death of millions over the years. And shun Islam, Judaism, Jayneism, Zarathrustrianism, and Christian Science, while you are at.

I suggest none of us is so enlightened or knowledgeable as to really be in a position to criticize another's "nonsensical" beliefs.

Let me make it clear, I am not a member of the organized cult of Scientology, and have no drum to beat for their various group shenanigans. But I think they have a religion which is their OWN goddamned business. And I think bashing people's philosophies is much too easy to do, having engaged in a certain amount of it myself.

We could all do better, if we chose.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Alice
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 10:09 AM

Here is a direct link to the stated "fair game" policy. Anyone who criticizes $cientology is designated an "enemy". Look at the penalties for each "lower condition" - Liability, Treason, Doubt, Enemy. The penalty for Enemy is defined and copyrighted by Hubbard, 1967.
http://www.fairgamed.org/fairgame.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Alice
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 09:59 AM

There is a web site dedicated to the "fair game" policy and its victims. Here it is: http://www.fairgamed.org/ Click here

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: John Hardly
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 09:34 AM

Old man Hubbard has taken over his kind
No use thinking, or using your own mind
So be my guest if you've got millions to lose
Won't you let me dupe you just like Tom Cruise?
Ooo eee, ooo eee baby
Ooo eee, ooo eee baby
Ooo eee, ooo eee baby
Won't you let me dupe you just like Tome Cruise?

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: John Hardly
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 09:26 AM

Good night, Mary Ellen.

Good night, John Boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Alice
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 09:17 AM

Ragdall, TIME magazine was sued by CoS (church of scientology) after they did the article, a famous cover story issue for TIME. CoS has a belief in the "religion" called "fair game". That means anyone who criticizes them is attacked until they are destroyed and that even illegal means are acceptable, because any critic is "fair game". That behavior is the source of many of the legal actions against them, but still the public is clueless about what this group has done. Back in the '90's MTV did a program on cults and mentioned Scientology. As a result, Scientology was able to force MTV to allow a certain amount of advertising FOR Scientology on the MTV channel. Talk about finding a vulnerable target audience for recruiting!

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Alice
Date: 02 Jul 05 - 09:04 AM

Again, folks, the problem is the DEED not the CREED.

Anyone can start their own religion in our country. Beliefs are not the issue. Actions that are criminal and destructive are the issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:53 PM

By the way - I LOVED "War of the Worlds". It won't be remembered at Oscar time - but for a summer popcorn movie it was great.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 12:11 PM

And I don't think that concerns about Scientology are about "tolerance" or "diversity," either. My experience with the damage Scn does to smart, good people started long before my life in Christ. More than anything else that concerns me about Scn, is the way free will is taken and subsumed by the Scn programming-- while being offered as the height of personal freedom. The inner workings of that programming are profound-- down to the way our brains work, our minds function, our identity is experienced. It's DEEP intrusion on Selfhood-- in the "name" of Self!

A lot of Hubbard's crap is a straight rip-off/re-jargoning of simple Old Testament judgementalism. It steals what it purports to condemn and makes hay on that, all at the same time.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 11:56 AM

My daughter had sleep problems whilst on Ritalin.

Art if it works and you are happy to take Ritalin, that fine, it is your choice.

In children it can affect the growth as well as affect the blood and I think a few more things.
Our dentist at the time and a friend was horrified when he knew she was on Ritalin and advised us to get her off it quickly.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 11:31 AM

I used to live just south of Clearwater Florida - one of the centers of Scientology. When they came to town they bought two or three of the largest buildings in Clearwater - a bank on Gulf-to-Bay Ave and a hotel on South Ft Harrison Ave - and they paid cash. That's all well and good - it's a free country if you have enough cash.

But this is what bothers me. It was widely reported in several newspapers that when the Scientologists moved out of an apartment complex - and into the Harrison Hotel - that they left several machine pistols behind in the apartments they vacated.

I can understand that when you move out of a place that you are liable to leave some things behind by mistake - but machine pistols ? If they forgot the machine guns - what did they remember to take ?? The bazookas ? Cannons ?

I guess I get a little suspicious when I see a hotel run by a "religious" order that has security guards packing .45's. Hmmm....

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 11:27 AM

I agree with you, Susan. If she's smart, his fiance will stay out of that cult!

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 11:21 AM

It's not a digression to discuss Scientology when it's the source for the party line Cruise is spouting. A Scn higher-up was on TV yesterday running the same rant nearly word-for-word, refusing to address the interviewer's reasonable questions by interrupting to resume the rant. The hate on their faces when they start spouting-- I've seen it from other Scientologists who had left and were trying to move on. These people get seriously messed with; it shows.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 11:16 AM

PS,,,cool that she still needs ya and feeds ya! way to go old pal!

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 11:14 AM

If it helps you, don't worry about taking it. I would suggest a
a sleep study to rule out sleep apnea. If you have bad apnea, you could use a CPAP machine to blow air in your nostrils, get a good night's sleep and eliminate one more medication, Art.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 10:23 AM

Folks, as I've said in another thread, my MS has, as one of my big symptom, extreme fatigue. It's very much like when I had mono. Not just tired, or sleepy---but extraordinary fatigue. My neurologist has me on 20 mlgrms. of Ritalin twice a day---morning and noon. I find it a big help. It wears off quickly and allows me to sleep too.

I'm not talking about children here. I am a 64 year old man.

I know there are strong opinions out there for the use of it with hyper kids, but what's your gripe on this drug where adults are concerned?

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: GUEST,Willie-O
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 10:15 AM

Tom Cruise has always irritated the hell out of me. Particularly after I watched (because I like Elizabeth Shue, who was sadly misused in this POS) "Cocktail". Possibly the worst major-release movie of the past 20 years. He acts with his sole asset: his teeth. He has far too many of them.

I am quite sad that Katie Holmes has said yes to him and gotten sucked into his glam-sham world. She is a greatly underrated actress who does fine work without showing off--as in "The Ice Storm" and "Pieces of April". Not blockbusters, just damn good movies. Check em out.

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 10:08 AM

A psychiatrist is a medical doctor who specialises in mental health. I would personally trust them as much as I'd trust any other medical doctor - that is to say, each on their own basis.

What's so wrong with a psychiatrist suffering from mental illness (see a few posts up)? One of the leading researchers on manic depression, Kay Redfield Jamison, suffers from it herself.

Scientologists I wouldn't trust at all :)

Subject: RE: BS: Petition To Boycott Tom Cruise
From: GUEST,eric the red
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 09:51 AM

If you sign the petition don't give your email address or you will get a begging letter from them.

eric