Explosions in London

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 06:29 PM

Carol ...I've been watching UK news regularly, and have heard nothing of Muslims celebrating the London bombings, quite the reverse , all Muslims whom I have seen interviewed, are at pains to disassociate themselves and their religion from the atrocities.

You are right to mistrust people who distort the truth.
I have much the same feelings about our Prime Minister....Ake

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 06:26 PM

one bnp member out? WHat are you on about?

guest123, i don't like the bnp but it is useless attacking em like that on here, because there aint any on here, except one.

All we are saying is, your emotional anti-bnp post seems more like the shoutings of a person living behind his computer attacking bnp on safe forums thats all. no offence

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST,123
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 06:18 PM

Guest 06:09 PM
Rich coming from yourself.
I would rather one BNP member out than in here.
Support ...read the replies..there is more than one Bigot here.
As to my bravery well you know shit all about me.
So how do you fight racism in the UK ?

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 06:11 PM

By a weird coincidence I'm currently re-reading the "Cribb" Victorian detective series by Peter Lovesey including Invitation to a Dynamite Party based on the real 1884-6 bombing campaign by the Irish-American Clan-na-Gael. Many of the same stations were targeted then.


Not so much of a coincidence. The bombers very carefully hit key nodes in the network to cause maximum long term disruption as well as loss of life. In the 1880s hitting Edgeware Road and Aldgate junctions would have had the same impact on the overall system as today. Anybody with a basic knowledge of railway geography would spot that.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 06:09 PM

guest 123 is a brave individual. Coming on here a politically left forum to expouse leftist militiant tendencies to a leftist audience.

guest 123 we are in awe. i mean aside from the one bnp member i know of in here how many bnp members do u think are going to read your post?

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 06:08 PM

McGrath thanks for your post indicating that the Muslim world, at least in part, has seen some sort of Reformation. The samples you cite are much more recent than the much more widespread events of the Christian Reformation, which corresponds to my observation that Islam is a much 'younger' religion than Christianity.

By your lack of a citation, I take it that you do not disagree that Islam has no correspondence to what we term the Enlightenment.

I am making the argument that religions, along with nations, artistic periods, political movements and clothing fads, go through developmental stages.

Sometimes we may have cases of arrested development.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST,123 what are they fighting for?
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 05:56 PM

It isn't only Blair using the Bombings for Political gain.
The ever attractive multi racial, oops sorry wrong Party, the ever vigilant bigoted opportunists that call themselves the BNP were all over this tragedy like a rash! and this forum it would seem!
Griffin...the spokeman for the BNP make a long, stupid, unbelievable statement the other day...this group of dangerous idiots just get worse and worse, even laughable at times if they weren't so bloody dangerous.

" The Islamification of Britain can and must be stopped by political and then legal changes. And the same methods must be used to reverse it.

Britain and the West will be free and Western, or they will be an endless bloodbath. Today's horrific events have shown that, in the end, whatever propaganda the BBC produces over the days ahead, that is the only choice we have to make."

Nick Griffin
Chairman, British National Party

Sorry Griffin your vision for Britian is not appealing to a vast number of Brits.
Now go do something worthwhile BNP trash.
Like give Blood....but tell the Red Cross that it is tainted and not to give it to any normal people, no matter what the circumstances are.
I personally cannot think of anything more repulsive than having Griffin or his fellow Racists blood flowing in my veins.

Great "campaign" election leaflet BNP. It is sure to bring you in a least one more vote next time round. Now tell us your not exploiting this Tragedy to attempt to further your message of hate. No on second thoughts don't bother.
You bigoted bastards talk so much shite. It is truly amazing what comes out your filthy mouths and how little there is in your bigoted empty heads.
You are amoral and dillusional.
Your "so called" Political Party makes a very large majority of the British people, (Muslim, Christian, Jew, Pagan, Buddists, Aethists and many others ) absolutely disgusted.
So why not take your minority rants and shove them up your Arses, you know where that is, it's the place were your heads are stuck! and stop using a Music Forum to spread your idiotic rhetoric.
I mean how desperate is your need for support...it would seem to be very desperate if this is where you come to drum up business.
I have a strong feeling you aren't quite managing that.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 02:09 PM

"Does it matter they were muslims? So your saying the police should ingore the avenue of religious fanatacism in their enquiries?

Please show me where I have said that. I think the police should investigate every avenue they deem appropriate. But we are not the police.

They should ignore muslims at finsbury mosque declaring jihad on western peoples calling for murder? They should ignore televised muslims celebrating the attack in London?

This is where you and your lieutenant the GUEST lost me completely. The two of you have posted articles about things that happened after the 9/11 bombings in the US, and pretended that they just now happened, in London, in response to the London bombings. I don't trust people who lie to me and try to otherwise mislead me. I don't see any reason to believe your assertion that there were televised incidents of Muslims celebrating the bombings in London unless I hear it from someone besides you and your henchmen. Others on this thread have said they did not see these things.

However, even if they did, you still can't hold all Muslims responsible for the acts of a few. Otherwise it would be correspondingly appropriate to hold you personally responsible for every act of violence committed against Muslims by people who are not Muslim.

You think all this should be ignored for the greater good of 'tolerance'?

Of course not. I think it should be put into the proper context, along with all of the hideous things that are done by people who are not Muslims, and dealt with accordingly.

And what I think you should do is to criticize all violent behavior, whether it is committed by Muslims against non-Muslims, or by non-Muslims against Muslims. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite and a hate-monger.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 02:07 PM

Guest 12th July 4.48pm.
I,m afraid your hopes are in vain, Mr Blair has already started using the bombings as a tool to get himself and his cabinet off the hook.

It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that the London bombings and Iraq are very closly linked.
The sad mad young people who carried out the bombings were responding to what they saw as an attack on Islam by their own Government.

As Mr Blairs wife has already said, "There must be something very wrong, when these young people are prepared to kill themselves for their ideals"

She was of course referring to the Palistinian bombers, but her words could just as easily apply to the young people from Leeds.

Blair wriggles and twists ,and tries to block debate, but people like George Galloway are unafraid of the boot licking media, and George will quite rightly keep pushing the truth in Blair's face until he can no longer deny his guilt.

Blair and his cabinet have the blood of thousands of innocent Iraqis on their hands, and no matter how they lie and use weasel words the people who marched in their millions against the war will never forgive them.....Ake

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 02:06 PM

i hope mr interested and hannam die a horrible death

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 02:03 PM

Islam has not gone through a Reformation...

Not actually true - the bombers have their roots in an extremist reformist version of Islam, rather analogous to some of the weirder types of reformists within Christianity. The Taliban regime for example had many familiar elements of some aspects of our own reformation - extreme puritan restrictions on dress and music, destruction of statues...

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:57 PM

What do you want me to do?

Why not come to London for the weekend and celebrate our wonderful diversity at the renamed 'London United' festival at Burgess Park. You can be part of the majority of people who abhor the bombings and recognise that they were carried out by a minority of fanatics.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:52 PM

All i was saying Carol before you bit my head off, was that Mr Intersted answered your questions, why not answer his?

I was also saying that to accuse him/her of celebrating the bombings is sick, and no it is not the 'sick' as him using this thread to promote hatred because he hasn't spread hatred. All he did was inform us on here that it was confirmed that the bombers were muslim.

i will paste his questions for you to choose to answer again below:


"Does it matter they were muslims? So your saying the police should ingore the avenue of religious fanatacism in their enquiries? They should ignore muslims at finsbury mosque declaring jihad on western peoples calling for murder? They should ignore televised muslims celebrating the attack in London?

You think all this should be ignored for the greater good of 'tolerance'?

As for me only caring about bombers when the bombers is a load of crap, i care about this issue now because we have just seen many many people slaughtered by fantatics. What do you want me to do? As we all discuss the london bombings and the bomb scares now escalating around the UK you want me to discuss a petrol bomb in Yemen?"

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 08:32 AM

I've just reread your post Roger. When you mentioned tube bombings I thought you had got the dates mixed up which is why I made the comment about your age. I don't think the tubes existed in the 1880's - it was just cut and cover. I seem to remember reading about a pub called the 3 Nuns being bombed. For many years you could see an advertisement for the 3 Nuns from Aldgate station and may still be able to for all I know.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 03:56 AM

Sorry to post twice on the same subject I didn't think the first one got thropugh and after I got the "site unobtainable" message didn't think it was worth repeating, except the parallels with the 1880s.

RtS

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 03:46 AM

Leenia: I really dont think you have the right to decide who is and who is not a Muslim, according to some criterion of your own. As a general rule of thumb, if someone tells me they are a Muslim, I reckon they are Muslim. If someone claims to be an atheist, I reckon they are atheist. Of course, they may be lying, but in generaL I think we can define our own religions. You seem to be saying that a sinner cant belong to a religion. That is not a generally held belief, I think you are in a minority there.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 03:33 AM

By a weird coincidence I'm currently re-reading the "Cribb" Victorian detective series by Peter Lovesey including Invitation to a Dynamite Party based on the real 1884-6 bombing campaign by the Irish-American Clan-na-Gael. Many of the same stations were targeted then.

RtS

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 06:21 PM

award for the most niave mudcatter post to date goes to Leeneia

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 06:12 PM

Islam forbids killing.

A person cannot be a Muslim and a murderer. It's one or the other.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 06:00 PM

There is a big difference between discussing (and even condemning) the way extremist Muslims address what they see as injustices, and using the London bombings as an excuse to whip up hatred towards Muslims generally, Bill. I'm sure you can understand the difference. A careful look at all of Guest,interested posts show that they fall into the latter category.

But the reality is that until legitimate grievances that Muslims and Muslim countries have about the way they are being treated by the West are addressed in a constructive way by all sides in question, the problem of terrorism will not go away. Killing more of them just creates more of them.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:55 PM

People professing certain branches of Christianity have certainly perpetrated what would today be considered heinous acts of infamy. Sometimes these people were Popes and Kings and Queens. No Popes and Kings and Queens of the recent past would dream of thinking or doing these things in the current era.

Islam is a much younger religion than Christianity. Islam has not gone through a Reformation or Enlightenment period.

As people, Muslims are NO DIFFERENT from us or anyone. As an institution, Islam is in a different time zone, psychology, and acting off a different game plan than the rest of the West (and most of the East).

This would come to a head at some time, and in our case it is the twin drives of the need to relate economically with the Muslim world over oil, and the technological changes wrought to the world making it impossible for Muslims to escape being bombarded by media pleasant, unpleasant, and downright obscene. They are being dragged into modernity kicking and screaming, and on one level, who can blame them? On another level, we are seeing a relation of belief to superstition and the use of religion as a power device that we ourselves are not totally free from.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:54 PM

Greg - that should be 'elders and SUPPOSED betters'.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:28 PM

greg stephens has made the point. It is not that they 'happened' to be Muslims, but that extremists are USING religion to inflame young people .The fact is, when their religion IS a major component of their drive to do harm to innocent people, it is no longer irrelevant.

I am quite aware that most Muslims would not do this, and that moderate clerics have condemned the violence...but extremist clerics are exacerbating the problem and using impressionable young people to further complex political/religious ends!

One further point...there has been cruelty and violence perpetrated in the name of other religions also, including Christianity, but Islam seems to have this concept, whether these extremists are interpreting it correctly or not, of 'immediate access to Paradise' for dying while fighting for the 'cause'. You get violent folks in many religions, but the idea of using suicide to destroy the enemy is NOT a common factor in all religions.

Now...before you flame me for seeming to just blindly agree with 'interested', READ my points over again, and note why I say what I do.....

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:11 PM

Sir Iqbal Sacranie of the Muslim Council of Britain said they had received the news from the police with "anguish, shock and horror".


He said: "It appears our youth have been involved in last week's horrific bombings against innocent people.

"While the police investigation continues we reiterate our absolute commitment and resolve to helping the police bring to justice all involved in this crime of mass murder. Nothing in Islam can ever justify the evil actions of the bombers."

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 04:53 PM

Using the London bombings, especially in this thread, as a tool for promoting a political agenda is, well, sick, Mr. Hannam. And that is what GUEST,interested is doing. That sort of behavior deserves to be pointed out.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 04:48 PM

Celebrating Death by Violence caused by either by so called terrorists or by Military means is repulsive. It would also be equally repulsive, if say, a Political Party used the London Bombings as a tool they hoped would further their Campaign. Hopefully there are no legitimate Political Parties in the UK that would stoop that low!

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 04:32 PM

Suicide bombing is rather unusual, in that you can select your target remarkably accurately. I can understand the motivation of the kamikaze pilot very easily: you are going for the enemy you have selected as heroically as you can. Likewise anyone in Palestine going for the Israeli army checkpoint, or whatever.
We are asked to believe by many posters here that the bombers are acting out of hostility to Blair and the British army going into Iraq. You would think, if this was actually the case, that the bombers would have a go at political or military targets, of which there are are huge selection of readily attackable people, or installations, in England. But these bombs have been directed at extremely ordinary people in tubes and a bus on the way to work. This doesnt seem to me to be someone specifically protesting about the British ploical/military establishment. This sounds< I'm afraid, like some stupid gullible kids seduced into ultimate stupidity by some convincing older man offering adolescents a specious paradise in return for their "heroic deeds". I have worked with a lot of young Muslim kids over the last few years, and I know the kind of rubbish that is told to some of them. All we can hope is that a bit more education will eventually make the young a little more sceptical about what they are told by their elders and betters.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 03:43 PM

Carol, Mr Interested answered your questions, why not answer his/hers?

To accuse someone of dancing after the terrorist attacks is to be honest, well sick.

We certainly differ in opinions, but on other threads relating to muslim intolerance, you have always been fair, but to accuse someone of that is simply not right.

I agree, most Muslims are NOT terrorists, but you can't expect the police not to investigate the points interested raised. it would not make sense.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 03:05 PM

Guest Interested - Its time to stop blaming Muslims for the acts of a fanatical few. Call them terrorists or Jihadists if you must but don't call them Muslims. Muslims have repeatedly denounced terrorist acts. Most Muslims are not terrorists. Thats like saying all Christians are responsible for the acts of Christians in the KKK and that all Christians are racists.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 02:48 PM

I bet you have been and are celebrating the bombings yourself, GUEST,interested, because you see them as the perfect opportunity to help you spread your message of hate.

I bet you yourself danced upon hearing the news and gave thanks for the deaths of innocent people so you could continue to spread your filthy message of hate.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST,interested
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 02:35 PM

i have read post after post on here saying that nobody knows if they were muslims, when clearly they were!

I'm simply bringing this section of the debate to close, they WERE muslims.

Does it matter they were muslims? So your saying the police should ingore the avenue of religious fanatacism in their enquiries? They should ignore muslims at finsbury mosque declaring jihad on western peoples calling for murder? They should ignore televised muslims celebrating the attack in London?

You think all this should be ignored for the greater good of 'tolerance'?

As for me only caring about bombers when the bombers is a load of crap, i care about this issue now because we have just seen many many people slaughtered by fantatics. What do you want me to do? As we all discuss the london bombings and the bomb scares now escalating around the UK you want me to discuss a petrol bomb in Yemen?

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 02:19 PM

Mr. Interested, do you only care about people getting killed by bombs when the bombers are Muslims? Couldn't give a shit about anybody killed by bombers who aren't Muslims, right? The important thing about the bombers is NOT that they are Muslims. The important thing about the bombers is that they were BOMBERS.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 02:18 PM

Tam - the point is that they were OUTSIDE London and got the same sort of coverage.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST,interested
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 02:15 PM

The bombers were MUSLIMS! That has now been established with the news tonight.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: Tam the man
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 01:32 PM

Yes I remember Warrington and Brighton, however we can go on forever.

Tam

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 01:08 PM

Excuse the duplication if someone has already mentioned this here, but there's a survivor's diary on the BBC website that is utterly compelling reading. A very fine and brave young woman. It's at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4670099.stm

(Scroll down to start with the earliest message)

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 12:52 PM

A reporter actually asked the police at a press conference the afternoon of the bombings, to confirm if police had shot dead a bomber and the police denied any knowledge of that happening.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 12:47 PM

New rumor of terrorist London bombers being shot.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10334992

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 12:41 PM

Police have just announced that they are sure all four bombers died in the explosions. The death of one of them led police to raid addresses in W.Yorks. An arrest has been made and articles seized. They believe all four bombers are British born.

The BNP (the party of choice of our resident bigot) have been slammed by all parties for producing an election leaflet, showing photos of the bus bomb.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 12:26 PM

Robomatic, you could try this. They seem to take world pay so I guess can take donations from overseas.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 12:17 PM

developing story...

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 09:34 PM

Anyhow, still would like a pointer to some valid way to help injured and stricken victims of the London bombimgs.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 04:47 PM

Bunninabrain is right, here are other internet car commercials.

http://ebay.thehybrid.net/eBay/ParkingExpert1.wmv

http://ebay.thehybrid.net/eBay/ParkingExpert2.mpg

http://ebay.thehybrid.net/eBay/ParkingExpert3.wmv

http://ebay.thehybrid.net/eBay/ParkingExpert4.mpg

, sorry for the drift.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 03:29 PM

Any stuff like that would never get past the censors (British Board of advertising control). High bandwidth connections have allowed creative advertisers to get to us without interference, and hopefully forward it to people.

And you're right. Very British indeed.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: jacqui.c
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 02:50 PM

I have seen this one before but I'm not sure that it was ever put out on TV.

I think that it would appeal to the British sense of humour though. I reckoned it was pretty good.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 02:27 PM

Donuel -

Is that a real VW ad?

If so, its in extremely poor taste. I mean its O.K. to display something like this on a forum but I hope it isn't on t.v.

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: Alba
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 02:15 PM

Glad to hear that Carol.
That was a bit of a wait for you...
Good to know He is safe
Best Wishes
Jude

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 02:02 PM

If only

http://ebay.thehybrid.net/Misc/kaboom.wmv

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 01:49 PM

Just got an e-mail from my son saying he's alive and well (I'm not sure where, but that's ok).

Subject: RE: Explosions in London
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 10:45 AM

That's rich coming from someone who hits half a century in less than 12 months......

LTS