Lyr Req: A Woman to Her Husband Killed at Culloden

Subject: Lyr Req: Husband killed at Culloden
From: GUEST,ChS
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 05:54 AM

Do English or Gaelic lyrics exist for the melody
"A Woman to Her Husband Killed at Culloden"?
X: 1
T: A Woman To Her Husband Killed in Culloden
M: 3/4
L: 1/8
Q:1/4=72
K:C % 0 sharps
V:1
z4
G3/2A/2| \
B2A2B2| \
G2E2D3/2D/2| \
B2d2A2|
B2d2e3/2e/2| \
e2d2e2| \
d2B2B3/2d/2| \
e2B2A2|
G2E2D3/2E/2| \
G2A2G2| \
e2d2g3/2^f/2| \
e2E2^F2|
E2D2c3/2d/2| \
B2A2B2| \
e2d2d3/2B/2| \
A2G2A2|
B2A2zG| \
E4D2| \
E6-| \
E4E3/2^F/2|
G3 ^FE2| \
D2 d2B2A2| \
B2d2e3/2^f/2|
g3 ^fe2| \
d2 e2A2B2| \
G2E2D3/2E/2|
G2A2G2| \
e2d2g3/2^f/2| \
e2E2^F2| \
E2D2c3/2d/2|
B2A2B2| \
e2d2d3/2B/2| \
A2G2A2| \
B2A3G|
E4D2| \
E6-|E4
Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Husband killed at Culloden
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:22 AM

Text -very likely Gaelic- unknown

The following poem "Tears of Scotland" matches this poignant tune, if not in scansion, at least in meaning".

Yet when the rage of battle ceased,
The victor's soul was not appeased,
The naked and forlorn must feel
Devouring flames and murdering steel!

The pious mother, doomed to death,
Forsaken wanders o'er the heath;
The bleak wind whistles round her head;
Her helpless orphans cry for bread.

Bereft of shelter, food and friend,
She views the shade of light descend;
And, stretched beneath the inclement skies
Weeps o'er her tender babes - and dies.

While the warm blood bedews my veins
And unimpaired remembrance reigns,
Resentment of my country's fate
Within my filial breast shall beat.

http://chrsouchon.free.fr/husband.htm
(Midi there seqenced by Barry Taylor)


"Text -very likely Gaelic- unknown

The following poem "Tears of Scotland" matches this poignant tune, if not in scansion, at least in meaning".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Husband killed at Culloden
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 12:02 PM

I can't read the notation in the original post so dont know if this is the same tune, but this thread refers to a beautiful song about a Culloden widow.The Highland Widow's Lament

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Husband killed at Culloden
From: GUEST,ChS
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 05:34 AM

To Sorcha:
Thank you, Sorcha. But you directed me to my own site which I wanted to upgrade by adding the real lyrics to the tune supposing they exist.

To Robbie Wilson:
The Highland Widow's Lament is another song ( lyrics by Burns, arrangement by Robert Schumann): cf
http://chrsouchon.free.fr/widow.htm
Thank you anyway.

Ch.Souchon

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Husband killed at Culloden
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 01:28 PM

Could this be the same tune that's in the Fraser collection titled "A Lady to her Husband Killed at Culloden?"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Husband killed at Culloden
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 02:23 PM

LOL! That is funny!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Woman to Her Husband Killed at Culloden
From: GUEST,ChS
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:12 AM

To Phil Cooper:
Yes, it is "A Lady to her Husband Killed at Culloden".
Does the Fraser Collection give the lyrics to i?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Woman to Her Husband Killed at Culloden
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 01:35 AM

Why didn't you say all that to begin with, then, instead of wasting people's time? When asking a question, please tell us what you already know. How was Sorcha to know that it was your website she'd found, when you hadn't bothered to mention it?

Fraser printed only tunes so far as I remember. The Simon Fraser Collection is available as a facsimile reprint from the usual folk music retailers. You can find it easily via any of the major search engines.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Woman to Her Husband Killed at Culloden
From: ChS
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 02:09 AM

Sorry, Malcolm and Sorcha. I had forgotten how I came across this tune.
I thought buying printed stuff were the last resort, when you can't get information through Mudcat.
Anyhow, in mentioning that SFC contains only tunes, you answer my question (and others I was going to ask!)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Woman to Her Husband Killed at Culloden
From: ChS
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 05:37 PM

To Sorcha, Robbie, Phil and Malcolm

Quite by chance I found the answer to the question I asked On 08 Jul 05.
I found a dirge in Irish Gaelic, "Mo run geal og", written by Lady Chisholm for her husband, William, who fell at Culloden at the head of his clansmen in 1746. There is a strong likelihood of this text being what I was looing for, since it scans perfectly the tune "A Lady..." from the Simon Fraser Collection. In fact the definitive answer is to be found in "Coir a'Mhoid 3" (3d Book of the Mod Collection of Gaelic Songs) that I don't have, but allegedly gives both lyrics and tune for evry song it contains.
The result of my investigations is here:

http://chrsouchon.free.fr/morungea.htm

(Maybe it could be useful to add this site to the Mudcat list of links, but I don't quite understand the procedure)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Woman to Her Husband Killed at Culloden
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 07:11 PM

That's Scottish, not Irish, Gaelic! Mò Rùn Geal Òg has been discussed here in the past, briefly, and a few verses of it posted. The Chisholm story is anecdotal and should not be quoted as fact (it isn't the only ascription), though it may be true.

Where did you get your text? Not directly from the Mod collection, as you state on your website. Perhaps from another website? Various texts are quoted all over the place, it seems, mainly from recordings by Capercaillie and by Maggie MacInnes and her mother Flora MacDonald. So far as I remember, Capercaillie and Maggie got the melody from Flora, and it isn't easily recognisable in the transcription on your site;it certainly fooled me, anyway. Where did you get it? Not directly from Fraser (as your site implies), or you wouldn't have needed to ask questions about it. It really is important to be accurate. If you have the material from secondary sources, say so; after all, they may not be correct transcriptions from the sources they name, and I'm sure you wouldn't want inadvertently to mislead people.

John Lorne Campbell (Gaelic Folksongs from the Isle of Barra, Linguaphone Institute / Folklore Institute of Scotland, n.d., p 49; notes, Mò Rùn Geal Òg) observes:

"Very unsatisfactory versions of the air have been printed in the collections of Highland music published by Patrick MacDonald (1781) and Simon Fraser (1816 and 1874), the editors having been completely confused by the changes of time signature which take place in the tune."

That would seem to confirm that you've found the song you were looking for, anyway; though you don't have the best tune for it. The Campbell pamphlet, incidentally, accompanied a sound recording (which I don't have) so contains only Gaelic lyrics, translations into English, and notes; no music transcriptions.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Woman to Her Husband Killed at Culloden
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 11:33 PM

Malcolm Douglas is correct that the Fraser collection doesn't include the words to song tunes. I had recorded the air for an instrumental project a few years back and have always liked it. I'd be curious to hear other versions, to figure out some of the differences.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Woman to Her Husband Killed at Culloden
From: ChS
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 02:35 AM

1° "Scottish" of course, I goofed. (I had been working, before submitting my message, on an Irish text...)
2° Origin of the text: Flora McNeil - Album "Craobh Nan Ubhal" (via Geocities)

http://www.geocities.com/celticlyricscorner/macneil/craobh.htm#morun

I am not very conversant with modern singers. Is Flora McNeil identical with the Flora McDonald you mention? Is the latter somehow related to "the" famous Flora?
Although I also found the Gaelic text with a word-by-word translation
at a Capercaillie site, the Geocities lyrics are more comprehensive, but incomplete: the additional verses quoted are only in English. Maybe they were discarded by Capercaillie because they sound somewhat ridiculous as they extoll questionable qualities of the defunct (a heavy drinker who never got drunk, self-refraining woman-chaser...). I would be pleased to find these lacking Gaelic verses.
3° I followed in my transcription the melody line adopted by Barry Taylor. I remember that he puts his version in relation with the Fraser Collection. (By the way, I took your advice and ordered a copy of it!).
Concerning the requested accuracy, I want to plead not guilty. I cannot remember precisely what compelled me to gather the songs pertaining to the Jacobite rebellion, nor what was my aim in doing so. But I certainly did not intend to compete with professional historians, writers or musicologists, since this topic is at the crosspoint of these disciplines. My approach was more "creative" than "documentary". In particular I wanted to convey to a French speaking audience the poetic contents of these pathetical songs through apt translation of the texts and original sequencing of the tunes. An Internet site, combining word and sound, was the ideal medium. That's why I did not pay too much attention to quoting sources etc... You make me realize that more accuracy would not harm my plan and I'll keep it in mind in a future.

Since "my" tune is not the best version, according to John Lorne Campbell, I am in for searching now for the sound recording accompanying his " Gaelic Folksongs from the Isle of Barra". Can anybody help?

Anyhow, thanks so much, Malcolm, for your exhaustive and precise hints.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Woman to Her Husband Killed at Culloden
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 12:12 PM

I must confess to my own inaccuracy now: of course it's Flora MacNeill, not Flora MacDonald! My apologies.

Her set appears on the 1976 LP Craobh nan Ubhal: Traditional Gaelic Songs from the Western Isles (Tangent TGS 124). I think it has been re-issued on cd. She learned the song in Barra; there are eight verses. Morag MacLeod and John MacInnes provided translations, but the Gaelic texts weren't included on the insert.

There is also a useful summary of the song's background:

"... composed by the widow of one of the Jacobite Gaels who fell at the Battle of Culloden on 16th April 1746. It is variously attributed to the widow of William Chisholm, standard bearer of the Chisholms of Strathglass, and a near relative of the chief of the clan; and to the widow of Gillies MacBain of Dalmagarrie in Strathdearn, 'major in Lady Mackintosh's Regiment.' MacBain's wife is not named. Chisholm's wife was Christiana Fergusson from Contin, Ross-Shire, where her family can be identified. Such evidence as we have suggests that hers is the better claim to authorship."

The singer on the Linguaphone record was Ruari Iain Bhàin (Roderick MacKinnon); that recording was made in 1936. He had eleven verses in all.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Woman to Her Husband Killed at Culloden
From: ChS
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 03:03 PM

I am now in possession of a copy of Captain Fraser's Collection (fac-simile reprint of the 1874 Edition).
I wonder if the reproach made by John Lorne Campbell to his version of "Mo run geal og" apply to both editions -1816 and 1874.
The 1874 edition gives, in fact, two versions of that tune:
-page 85: the 1st version (which I used for my arrangement)
-page 96 (Chapter "Additions from original 1816 Edition"): a 2nd version which is beautiful and poignant and , by far, superior to its predecessor. It is now the background music for the page

http://chrsouchon.free.fr/morungea.htm

(where your different remarks are embodied, making of this page one of the best documented of the site).