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BS: OK so I'm not bright.

LadyJean 04 Aug 05 - 12:25 AM
Kaleea 04 Aug 05 - 12:28 AM
GUEST,Arkie 04 Aug 05 - 12:39 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 04 Aug 05 - 12:48 AM
number 6 04 Aug 05 - 12:50 AM
wysiwyg 04 Aug 05 - 12:59 AM
Liz the Squeak 04 Aug 05 - 04:01 AM
DMcG 04 Aug 05 - 04:10 AM
Le Scaramouche 04 Aug 05 - 04:18 AM
Richard Bridge 04 Aug 05 - 04:20 AM
Bunnahabhain 04 Aug 05 - 06:29 AM
jacqui.c 04 Aug 05 - 07:49 AM
kendall 04 Aug 05 - 08:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Aug 05 - 08:17 AM
Azizi 04 Aug 05 - 08:24 AM
John O'L 04 Aug 05 - 08:30 AM
GUEST 04 Aug 05 - 08:31 AM
Amos 04 Aug 05 - 09:03 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 04 Aug 05 - 09:26 AM
Paul Burke 04 Aug 05 - 09:39 AM
PoohBear 04 Aug 05 - 10:21 AM
GUEST 04 Aug 05 - 10:57 AM
Le Scaramouche 04 Aug 05 - 11:13 AM
Stilly River Sage 04 Aug 05 - 11:18 AM
number 6 04 Aug 05 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,noddy 04 Aug 05 - 11:40 AM
CarolC 04 Aug 05 - 12:25 PM
GUEST,daylia 04 Aug 05 - 12:31 PM
CarolC 04 Aug 05 - 12:35 PM
GUEST 04 Aug 05 - 12:45 PM
PoppaGator 04 Aug 05 - 12:46 PM
CarolC 04 Aug 05 - 12:55 PM
Dave Swan 04 Aug 05 - 01:06 PM
GUEST 04 Aug 05 - 04:24 PM
Le Scaramouche 04 Aug 05 - 04:27 PM
GUEST 04 Aug 05 - 05:49 PM
Le Scaramouche 04 Aug 05 - 05:54 PM
GUEST 04 Aug 05 - 06:30 PM
Le Scaramouche 04 Aug 05 - 06:32 PM
JohnInKansas 04 Aug 05 - 08:28 PM
GUEST 04 Aug 05 - 11:18 PM
s&r 05 Aug 05 - 04:30 AM
Le Scaramouche 05 Aug 05 - 04:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Aug 05 - 04:55 AM
GUEST 05 Aug 05 - 09:24 AM

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Subject: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: LadyJean
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:25 AM

It all started when the guy next door backed his minivan into my front bumper. I'd been contemplating replacing my car. But the near total destruction of my front bumper decided it. Now finding a good car that I could afford was a bit of a challenge. Then I found this beautiful Subaru wagon on Ebay. I didn't expect to get it. The owner was shipping out to Iraq, and I bid on it to help him get a good price. No good deed goes unpunished. I got the car at a very very good price. In part, I think because the thing is a standard.
Now my parents once owned a standard poodle (Or a standard poodle once owned my parents.) But I've never driven a standard car. Add to this that I live in western Pennsylvania, where we have two directions, uphill and downhill. So, I'm trying to learn how to drive the thing on hills. I've learned about bucking and stalling, and I've done some interesting things to the clutch. I'm hoping to get the hang of it soon but it's a bit of a challenge.
I will not buy cars on Ebay. I will not buy cars on Ebay. I will not buy cars on Ebay.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Kaleea
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:28 AM

New Mantra:
"It's all good!   It's all good!
       It's all #$%^&*!ing good!!"


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:39 AM

You will learn. My daughter learned to drive on my truck and we bucked and stalled around the parking lot at work quite a few times, but we bought her first car from some neighbors and it was a standard and so was her second car which she bought from her grandparents.   When she started shopping for her third car the one thing wanted was a standard transmission. Our hills in the Ozarks are not quite as rugged as western Pennsylvania but every trip involves stopping and starting on hillsides.   It can be done and once you learn the trick it will seem quite natural. And there is a definite plus each time you fill the gas tank.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:48 AM

MANTRA - (to be song hourly 24/7)



I am stupid

I am dumb

My very life has become undone.



I'm to blame

I'm at fault

Save the money and hire a cab.



I'm no good.

I am bad - so sad.



No matter what I do

All results in a pile of pooh.


Never leave my mom and dad.

When they die I'll feel sad.


So load dad's buckshot with #8

I will meet them at the Pearly Gate.



Sincerely,

Gargoyle



Neglect the defective genes and let the rest flourish.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: number 6
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:50 AM

LadyJean .... some belated advice here. I'm a Subaru fan. I'm on my 2nd, a Subaru Outback with an automatic transmission ... I've always driven a standard up until now ... why the switch to an automatic ... because my previous vehicle was a Subaru Forester ... Subarus make great cars but stay clear of thier manual shifts .... my transmission burnt out at 45K, the replaced one was starting to go at 85k, I then traded it in ... it is (apparently) a common weakness with Subarus. Shifting on a Subaru reminded me of shifting gears on an old Massey Harris tractor.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:59 AM

Good practice can be had in large parking lots. You will love it when it all becomes second nature (I was gonna say "automatic".)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 04:01 AM

Practice finding the 'biting point' - that point where your foot on the clutch is no longer controlling, but the gears have kicked in and are taking the vehicle forward. It's fun to sit in a car park and play with it, rolling backwards and forwards... makes people think you're up to something! Then practice on an incline, keeping the handbrake on until you feel the bite, then letting the brake, off carefully, making sure you still sit on that 'biting point'. Be gentle in all things. The bite should hold you stationary whilst you let off the brake and you should be able to gently pull away even up the steepest hill. Steeper hills may need a little more pressure on the accelerator (gas) pedal to get moving. Make sure there are no obstructions behind you when you practice this on a hill.....!

Once you've got this 'biting point' and can find it instinctively, it makes manual driving a lot easier.

Havefun and take it easy!

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 04:10 AM

In the UK, if you pass your driving test using an automatic vehicle, you do not have a valid licence for a manual, so almost everyone learns on a manual, as passing that test covers both. I presume the US driving laws don't make the distinction.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 04:18 AM

Never buy a car sight unseen.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 04:20 AM

One great advantage to a manual transmission is that if the clutch wears out (which it ought not to do until about 120,000 miles if your clutch technique is correct), replacing a clutch is a HELL of a lot cheaper than replacing the friction materials in an automatic box, and, indeed, if there is significant residual material in the fluid in an automatic box you may have to condemn the box.

Correct use of a manual transmission also means that you are driving the car in stead of the other way round and in critical situations that could mean you stay in motion or on the road rather than otherwise, and possibly alive.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 06:29 AM

So apart from giving you more control, being cheaper to run and to repair, manual cars have no advantages, and yet they're still an endaged species in the US.

Threads like this are very good at showing just how foriegn a country it really is...


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: jacqui.c
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 07:49 AM

I've got the opposite problem - learned to drive a manual and tried driving Kendall's automatic, having never driven one before. Fifteen minutes was enough - he got tired of saying "take your foot off the goddamned brake!" Added to being the wrong side of the car and the wrong side of the road......

I've now got my Social Security number so can apply for a driving licence - he's looking for a manual car for me and maybe I'll go out with someone else to practice driving the automatic.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: kendall
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 08:17 AM

I prefer a manual transmission, but we Americans are so lazy it's hard to find one these days.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 08:17 AM

I usualy have no trouble switching from manual to auto and have no trouble switching from driving on the left to the right. What I DID have severe problems with was driving with the gear stick and handbrake on my left hand side. Rule of thumb now - In the UK I drive a manual. Europe or US I drive an auto:-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 08:24 AM

LadyJean:

From one Pittsburger to another: I wish you well regardless of which direction you are going-either uphill or downhill!!

We have to meet up again-but please not on Pittsburgh's streets!

LOL!

Positive vibrations,


Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: John O'L
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 08:30 AM

Well I have one of each.
I have nothing of any value to contribute to the thread, I just wanted you all to know that I have one of each.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 08:31 AM

"To every rule there is an exception." I bought a vehicle sight unseen (except for photos)off ebay and it's been just as the seller advertised. The only thing I've done to it is replace a burned out headlamp - which happened after I got it home ...and I had to replace the "third eye" brake light, which was burned out when I bought the vehicle. Other than that I've only had to put gas in it. I paid about $2500 for a vehicle that the local department of motor vehicles assessed at $7500 (but that was for tax purposes so it might've been a little high) ...

Moral of the story is, all that glitters is not gold, but sometimes it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Amos
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 09:03 AM

You'll get used to it. Everyone once had to! :D


A


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 09:26 AM

I prefer manual, but I need a full-size van for business reasons and Ford and GMC just don't make 'em with anything but an automatic anymore. Dodge's Sprinter (which is really a Mercedez with a Dodge nameplate) probably is available with a manual, but it's too expensive for my current income level.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Paul Burke
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 09:39 AM

Do what I did with the Boy and the Girl: take youself out to a quiet, straight road where you can expect no traffic to disturb you. Find a place with a rising gradient... not too steep, but enough to cause problems. Drive up the road, repeatedly stopping and starting in SECOND gear. You'll soon get the fine control.

Soon after that, gearchanging will become a reflex, you won't even notice you are doing it. You'll wonder how you ever drove an automatic- the ability to drop a gear and slingshot yourself around corners is just one thrill that opens up. Not to mention the fuel bill reduction.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: PoohBear
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 10:21 AM

My parents own nothing but manual transmission vehicles (the newest of these is a '69 VW crew cab pickup) and before my father would let either my sister or I TOUCH one of his clutches we had private driving lessons - in someone else's stickshift. My instructor used a local high school parking lot that had a more-than-slight incline at one of the exits and that's where I learned to start up on a hill. The suggestion of using the parking brake is a good one. I still use that trick in the old pickup on very steep hills if there's anyone directly behind me. . . just to be safe. And, boy, did I love to take the Morgan or the MG into the west hills around Portland - there's nothing like a manual transmission for control on winding roads!
Take your time, find a large parking lot for practice - and then enjoy!
PB


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 10:57 AM

When I was a kid I taught myself by practicing the coordinated effort of accelerating-clutching and shifting-accelerating on a VW sitting in the driveway. Motor off, just practicing the use of two feet and going through the gears pretending like I was really going somewhere. The first time I got behind the wheel of a manual, no problem. Didn't even stall once; it just took a little tweaking to not race the engine so much before engaging the clutch (the trick is to mash down on the gas pedal *after* the clutch begins to engage). Later, starting from an incline was mastered by engaging the clutch until it first began to "catch" while keeping the foot brake applied, then giving it enough gas to keep from stalling or rolling back.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 11:13 AM

Yes guest, but what if your purchase turned out to be a lemon?


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 11:18 AM

I loved driving a manual transmission vehicle when they were still making them with any power. My pickup before the one I have now was three-in-the-tree and good for towing. Before that I owned a VW and a Ford Courier, both also standards. Now that automatics have improved so much they're not keeping up with standard transmissions for power and towing capacity, etc.

Practice. It's always good to know what your gears are doing even if you're driving an automatic, and this is one way to learn. Being able to drive more than one type of vehicle can be a lifesaver if its the only thing available.

Don't ride the clutch.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: number 6
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 11:24 AM

3 in the tree .... now there is a classic manual shift!

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 11:40 AM

bad drivers always blame the car.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:25 PM

Manual transmission is great in places like western Pennsylvania. It's the best for those looooonnnggg uphill grades like the one going east on Rt. 40 out of Uniontown.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:31 PM

bad drivers always blame the car

while bad car manufacturers always blame the driver


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:35 PM

BTW, I learned how to drive in cars with automatic transmissions. The way I learned how to drive a car w/manual transmission (the first car I owned) was as I was driving the car home from the lot (there were some hills... I did stall out several times... nothing bad came of it). So don't lose hope... it can be done.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:45 PM

"what if your purchase turned out to be a lemon?" It didn't turn out that way. That's the point. There's an exception to every rule.

"Never buy a car sight unseen" wasn't good advice in my case, because my experience, however unusual, was a good one. I wouldn't, however, on the basis of my experience, say that everyone should always buy a vehicle sight unseen, because as we know, the outcome could be disastrous.

Based on my experience, I can say it is possible that a good vehicle can be bought sight unseen, just be very, very careful. Ebay, I think, also has some protective measures in place that provide their participants some avenues of redress in the case of willful misrepresentation, but I can't comment on how effective they are.         

...and this comment more apropos to the discussion at hand: I prefer manual transmissions except in congested areas of towns where there are traffic lights at each intersection, traffic jams/and or heavy stop and go traffic. Then they are a pain in the foot, literally.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: PoppaGator
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:46 PM

Ironically enough, the economic manual transmission is mostly found these days only in expensive sports cars. Go figure.

The first car I ever owned was an orange '72 Datson 510 station wagon, a great little car with both a manual transmission and a manual CHOKE! You pulled out the choke lever to start the car, then shoved it back in. Haven't seen anything like that in years!


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:55 PM

The Datsuns back then were great little cars, weren't they, PoppaGator? My first was an orange '73 B-210 (manual) fastback. I loved it. But it didn't have a choke. The cars I learned to drive in were Austin Americas (automatic) and they did have a manual choke.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Dave Swan
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 01:06 PM

Just to join the creep, my first car was a '50 Chevy 3100 panel truck w/ three in the tree, starter on the floor, manual choke, and a throttle on the dash. God, how I miss that truck. If she hadn't spent the first 24 winters of her life in New Jersey I bet I'd have her still.

D


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 04:24 PM

number 8 is birdshot, not buckshot


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 04:27 PM

"what if your purchase turned out to be a lemon?" It didn't turn out that way. That's the point. There's an exception to every rule.

Sounds like a form of Russian Roulette.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 05:49 PM

If so then I lived through it to say: From my experience I can't say "Never buy a car sight unseen."


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 05:54 PM

Ok, assuming you sold it, buy another of Ebay tommorow?


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 06:30 PM

yeah, I'd look there again and if I came across something that looked like a pretty good deal, I'd probably do it again.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 06:32 PM

Better your money than mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 08:28 PM

Re question above: at least some jurisdictions in the US do limit you to automatic transmissions if you take your driving test with one. Wisconsin (at least ca. 1967) did so, and I had the impression it was similar in other adjacent/nearby states.

Re the US "love of automatic transmissions:"

With the advent of emission controls, manufacturers at least at first were forced to resort to rather lean mixtures to meet mandated hydrocarbon emission limits. If you "lug" the engine (load it down to too low an rpm) with a lean mixture, you get engine knock, which makes little holes in the head, blows out the head gaskets, and burns the rims off the valves.

Since you presumedly cannot lug the engine with an automatic transmission in a few places, notably California, for several years it was impossible to buy a new automobile with a standard/manual transmission. No new vehicles were certified to California emission requirements with manual transmissions for several years.

In other states, manufacturers "pushed" the automatic transmissions because it was easier to meet even the somewhat more generous emission limits without excessive warranty claims by reducing the number of manual xmissions "in the fleet."

With recent engines and transmissions, the notion that a standard transmission always gets better fuel economy is something of a myth. Standard transmissions are found most frequently in the smallest vehicles, and they get better economy because they're smaller, not necessarily because the standard transmission is "always better" than modern automatics. It still is possible to impose tighter control on mixture and ignition if an automatic is used, and by doing so - along with overdrive ratios and lockup devices - many automatics do pretty well when compared to manual ones in similar sized vehicles.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 11:18 PM

right ... more money in my pocket after the sale than in yours.


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: s&r
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 04:30 AM

Oh for the days of the crash box and double de-clutching...there was something macho about driving then.

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 04:38 AM

Oho we are descending to juvenile levels of insults are we? My daddy makes more than your daddy nyah nyah?


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 04:55 AM

I just noticed I said I didn't like the gear stick and handbrake on the left. Coming from the UK I did of course mean the OTHER left, known as right to all you foreigners. But you knew that of course...

The other thing I forgot to mention, LadyJean, is that you have just saved yourself a pretty penny on car hire when you come to Europe - manual transmissions are always more abundant and cheaper to rent:-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: OK so I'm not bright.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 09:24 AM

tell you what - you continue to buy your vehicles "sight seen" off the lot or from a private owner and pay close to blue book and I'll continue to take my chances and buy 'em off ebay "sight unseen" for about a third of what they're worth and we'll all be happy. Hell, for what I paid even if there was something wrong I could've put a couple of thousand dollars into it and still would have come out ahead.


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Mudcat time: 3 August 8:48 PM EDT

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