BS: What Love Really Is

Subject: BS: What Love Really Is
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 07:55 PM

What Love Really Is


John Blanchard stood up from the bench, straightened his Army uniform, and studied the crowd of people making their way through Grand Central. He looked for the girl whose heart he knew, but whose face he didn't, the girl with the rose.

His interest in her had begun thirteen months before in a Florida library. Taking a book off the shelf he found himself intrigued, not with the words of the book, but with the notes penciled in the margin. The soft handwriting reflected a thoughtful soul and insightful mind.

In the front of the book, he discovered the previous owner's name, Miss Hollis Maynell. With time and effort he located her address. She lived in New York City. He wrote her a letter introducing himself and inviting her to correspond. The next day he was shipped over seas for service in World War II.

During the next year and one-month the two grew to know each other through the mail. Each letter was a seed falling on a fertile heart. A romance was budding. Blanchard requested a photograph, but she refused. She felt that if he really cared, it wouldn't matter what she looked like.

When the day finally came for him to return from Europe, they scheduled their first meeting - 7:00 PM at the Grand Central Station in New York. "You'll recognize me," she wrote, "by the red rose I'll be wearing on my lapel."

So at 7:00 he was in the station looking for a girl whose heart he loved, but whose face he'd never seen. I'll let Mr. Blanchard tell you what happened:

A young woman was coming toward me, her figure long and slim. Her blonde hair lay back in curls from her delicate ears; her eyes were blue as flowers. Her lips and chin had a gentle firmness, and in her pale green suit she was like springtime come alive. I started toward her, entirely forgetting to notice that she was not wearing a rose. As I moved, a small, provocative smile curved her lips.

"Going my way, sailor?" she murmured.

Almost uncontrollably I made one step closer to her, and then I saw Hollis Maynell. She was standing almost directly behind the girl. A woman well past 40, she had graying hair tucked under a worn hat. She was more than plump, her thick-ankled feet thrust into low-heeled shoes. The girl in the green suit was walking quickly away. I felt as though I was split in two, so keen was my desire to follow her, and yet so deep was my longing for the woman whose spirit had truly companioned me and upheld my own.

And there she stood. Her pale, plump face was gentle and sensible, her gray eyes had a warm and kindly twinkle. I did not hesitate. My fingers gripped the small worn blue copy of the book that was to identify me to her. This would not be love, but it would be something precious, something perhaps even better than love, a friendship for which I had been and must ever be grateful.

I squared my shoulders and saluted and held out the book to the woman, even though while I spoke I felt choked by the bitterness of my disappointment. "I'm Lieutenant John Blanchard, and you must be Miss Maynell. I am so glad you could meet me; may I take you to dinner?"

The woman's face broadened into a tolerant smile. "I don't know what this is about, son," she answered, "but the young lady in the green suit who just went by, she begged me to wear this rose on my coat. And she said if you were to ask me out to dinner, I should go and tell you that she is waiting for you in the big restaurant across the street. She said it was some kind of test!"

It's not difficult to understand and admire Miss Maynell's wisdom. The true nature of a heart is seen in its response to the unattractive.


"Tell me whom you love," Houssaye wrote, "And I will tell you who you are."

http://bs16.freeservers.com/true_love.htm

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 08:03 PM

waht all this is about?

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 08:42 PM

Foolestroupe, that was a wonderful story!! Who wrote it?

I went to the website that was included in your post, but it gave no other information then what you posted. I was disappointed because I thought there would be more examples or more information.

I recall a recent Mudcat thread in which people shared how they met their husband, or wife. Many of those stories were as good as that "What Love Really Is" story.

Perhaps someone can provide a link to that Mudcat thread.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 08:47 PM

So sad that True Love has never crossed your heart jOhn... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: jacqui.c
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 10:17 PM

What a wonderful story.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 10:35 PM

I heard somewhere that love is staying up all night with a sick child








....or a healthy adult.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 10:36 PM

Gah... what a load of saccharine...

I can still feel my teeth rotting....

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 10:42 PM

Saccharine can't rot your teeth - but Sugar can... although it might poison you...

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Amos
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 11:46 PM

Clinton:

Pass the Listerine, man.

A

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: mack/misophist
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 12:37 AM

If a thing is too good to be true.....
Here's what snopes says about it.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Marion
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 01:05 AM

Good one, Robomatic.

The Snopes website that mack/misophist mentions has many similar stories in their Glurge Gallery, which should be interesting reading both for those who like this kind of thing and those who enjoy disliking it....

I must say, my initial reaction to this story was similar to that of the Snopes reviewer - that it's based on some rather misogynistic assumptions. So it's a shining example of true love when a man condescends to eat dinner with his girlfriend, even if she's fat, old (over 40, for gosh sake!), and smart enough to wear shoes that don't cause physical damage?

Marion

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: gnu
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:35 AM

Ah Clinton... it's a good story. A true, heartwarming fable. And, I'll bet beneath that brash, gruff exterior, you have a big heart, full of shhhugar.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Emma B
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:48 AM

I could NEVER love the sort of person who writes notes in library books :>)

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 07:24 AM

That's a beautiful story. If you want to know whether it's love or just infatuation or romance, fast forward a couple of years when the couple has struggled through the reality of living love on a daily basis, with all of it's disappointments and demands. Real love is a commitment to another person that requires giving when you feel like taking, forgiving when you feel like getting even, being patient when you are sick of waiting, trying to understand someone when they do something that makes no sense to you.... love requires humility, generosity, sacrifice and hard work. Romance comes easy. Most divorces began with what we call love.

But, if you give yourself to it completely, the blessings are beyond anything you could imagine.

Still learning...

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: jacqui.c
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 07:27 AM

At least it shows the book has been read.

The story is nice in that it recognises that it is the person that is important in any relationship, not the outward appearance, which is what too may people of either sex seem to think is the #1 priority and what the media drum into us day after day.

This thread shuld maybe be read in conjunctin with the supermodels thread - they both touch on the same sort of subject.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,muppitz at work
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 07:41 AM

I have an empathy with that story in a funny kind of way, I'm not the kind of person who bases a potential mate on aesthetics.
I think that it's a very important story and one which emphasises the importance of casting away superficialities.

muppitz x

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 08:09 AM

Sexual attractiveness has nothing to do with love. What's so special or commendable about 'loving' someone (or something) who doesn't really tilt your kilt, so to speak?

Not much, imo. Just sit quietly and observe your average 6 or 7 year old for a while. I'm sure you'll see what I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 08:16 AM

Sniff.....

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 11:54 AM

Jerry, I appeciate your post on 05 Aug 05 - 07:24 AM.

Thanks for sharing those words with us.

I'm still learning too.


Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 12:31 PM

Love is like this. All yer life ya hated cops. I mean, just flippin' hate'd 'em, eh? Total flippin' undenialbe hate. And then...

Ya find yerself in love with one. Why? Cos she, like, takes the trouble to help you out when no one else would. Cos she don't laugh at you. Cos she sticks up for you when your, like, down an out and livin' at the bottom of the trash can in the flippin' joint with sycho murderers, eh?

And she gets ya some compuuter time every day in the jail so's you can, like, talk to your internette friends, eh? And she gives ya encouragement to bring out yer natural talents for writin' so's ya can, like, start earnin' a decnet livin' for a change and buy decent quality dope fer a change.

And she don't judge ya fer yer past nor take ya fer granted.

And all of a sudden ya realize that maybe you don't hate ALL cops, and that just maybe, deep inside the heart of some cops there is a totally decent person jyst cryin' to come out!

That is love. I am in love with Officer Jennifer Dana of the Sudbury O.P.P., recently transferred to Spanish, and I don't care who flippin' knows it!

And Clinton Hammond can go flip himself sideways with a Fuller brush! He ain't never played Blind River, and if he did I would personally kick his ass and run him outta town!

- BDiBR (Shane)

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 12:36 PM

I second Clinton's urge to vomit. I almost choked on the fluffiness. Besides, that girl in the green suit was the kind of woman who plays games, and that's never a good thing. Headwrecking cow.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 12:44 PM

I don't know what the flip you are talkin' about, Fibula Mattress, but if you want to fippin' vomit here is how:

Chug about 12 beer real fast. Chase it with a mickey of gin. Top that off with a glass of kalooa. Then go on the rollercoaster, ya flippin' hosehead!

You will toss your cookies good, man.

Don't bother sendin' me no thank you note, either.

- BDiBR

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 12:55 PM

BDiBR - you rock! You have the best cocktail recipes ever. I hope Officer Dana enjoys a Sloe Comfortable Screw with you sometime soon.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: John Hardly
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 12:58 PM

THE REST OF THE STORY:

...of course, when John Blanchard arrived at the big restaurant across the street, the lovely blonde was nowhere to be found. Seems that was Ms Maynell's first sight of the rather plain (and obviously not wealthy) John.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 01:32 PM

This should take away the sickly sweet taste:
More crappy childrens' art work

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,Blind D
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 01:33 PM

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,Blind Drunk in Blind River
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 01:46 PM

FLIP! Somethin' went wrong. Here is what I, like, posted, eh?

Holy Flip, man! I hafta admit that I laughed when I seen those. But, hey, these are kids, man. Know'm sayin'? If yer kid drew a picture you would like it, eh? Kids don't hafta follow yer flippin' rules of perfectchun cos they are free, eh? Maybe you are missin' somethin' tyat's what I think, Mr "Oh ain't I the smart one?" So just flip off, eh?

I bet you can't flippin' draw that good neither. Tha'ts my guess. I bet the fliphead who put them pictures on the net can't draw worth shit. He is a mean-spirited bolthole who needs a good flippin' kick in the ass, eh? Pickin' on little kids! Geez...

- BDiBR

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Emma B
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 01:48 PM

Good grief Fibula....what am I going to put on the fridge door now?
Emma (not the one in the green suit) B

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:09 PM

"Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never ends."

First Corinthians 4-8

By Paul

Not Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:29 PM

People who write in library books should be flogged!

The same with people who write trash like the 'story' in question...

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Dani
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:32 PM

Thanks for reminding me of that story, Foolestroupe. I love it.

All you piss-ant skeptics and naysayers just go home and grumble. Though, that was a funny ending, Hardly ;)

This story gives me a little bit of hope at a time when the rug's been pulled out from under me and I need to believe.

Anyone know that wonderful song, "There Is More Love Somewhere"? Sing it with me....

Dani (aka Pollyanna)

PS: To add injury to insult, you should know that I love children's art as well. I actually own a 4x14 piece, framed and hung on the wall, done by an entire kindergarten class. If I showed it to you, you'd be a believer, too. It's amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:55 PM

If the story were true, I might have been impressed, even inspired. Maybe.

As fiction, though, isn't a bit cheesy to be taken seriously? I wouldn't have the nerve to write something like that in secret, let along submit it for publication.

And where's the high-minded moral, anyway? The guy gets to hook up with hot-looking babe after all ~ how nice for everyone!

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: sixtieschick
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 07:14 PM

Well, here's a true story about my philosophy professor at Oakland University in Michigan in the early 1970s. his name was named Richard Brooks (you can look it up--he used to love to tell the tale): When he was in the Navy he corresponded with a librarian at the Theosophical Society library, who would send him books to read. He fell in love with her through their letters. When he completed his service he travelled to the Theosophy headquarters in Illinois to meet her. He discovered that she was at least 2 decades older-- it might have been 3; I can't remember. Anyway, they got married and were very happy together. They endured a lot of criticism at the time.

M.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 08:39 PM

The Rose (rewritten)

   
By James A. Whitney

[e-mail]
"I'm too old to be doing something this silly," I thought to myself while in the taxi. The taxi was heading toward Union Station, where I would meet John Blanchard for the first time.
My interest in John first started when I received a letter from him, approximately four months after the death of my husband. It was April, 1944. The war had claimed my husband. Perhaps that led me find the hope in John's writings, wishing for a new love.

He claimed to have found a book of mine; one that I had only marked notes in. I honestly don't remember ever doing it, but I was willing to accept it. I wrote back. We exchanged several letters. He had been called to fight in the war, and he kept imploring me to write. During the next thirteen months, we grew to know each other through the mail. I couldn't help but hope that a new romance was budding. Even my friends teased me about him.

About ten months into our correspondence, he requested a photograph. Now, for a 37-year old woman with two children, I didn't look half bad. But I would never compare to the young women that threw themselves at sailors. And I knew it. I made some excuse that if he really cared, it wouldn't matter what I looked like. I knew it was wrong, but I couldn't help but hope.

Three months later, John Blanchard came home. We arranged a meeting in Union Station at 7:00. Since I didn't want to give him a picture, I told him that he would recognize me by the rose in my lapel. As the taxi pulled up to the curb, I placed the rose in my lapel, paid the driver, and left the cab. My first impulse was to turn around, right here and now, and forget this crazy thing. But I pressed on.

It was 7:03 when I first saw John. I recognized him instantly; if the uniform wasn't a giveaway, then the book he was carrying was enough. He was a handsome man, cleancut and fresh from his tour of duty. He reminded me of my husband, and a tear formed in my eye. But he had not yet seen me.

As I began to approach him, a remarkably beautiful girl dressed in an elegant emerald suit passed in front of him and smiled. John looked at her, obvious in his desire. As she walked past, he took a step in her direction, and then finally he saw me. I stood still, looked back at him and smiled. He looked longingly at the young girl as she left the station, and stared for a good three seconds.

Then, finally, he approached me.

"I'm Lieutenant John Blanchard," he said, taking my hand and shaking it, "and you must be Miss Maynell. I am so glad you could meet me; may I take you to dinner?"

He tried. He really tried to hide the disappointment in his voice, but I could hear it only too well. All of my fears had been realized, and I recognized that it would never work. Holding back my tears, I replied.

"I don't know what this is about," I answered, "but the young lady in the green suit who just went by, she asked me to wear this rose on my coat. And she said if you were to ask me out to dinner, I should tell you that she's waiting on the street corner for you. She said it was some kind of test."

That was all the convincing he needed. He thanked me and walked away. After three steps he started to run. After a few seconds, I called out to him.

"John, wait," I said, but it was too late.

I turned around and walked away, crying.

Looking back on it, I sometimes fantasize that I was the young lady. Or that John wasn't so quick to believe that I was. Or that I handled it differently. I wonder where John is; I wonder whether he found the young lady, and what he did when he found out that she wasn't me. Sometimes, I sit and look at the stars, and wonder what might have been.



© 1998 by James A. Whitney.
This article appears as part of the
Urban Legends Reference Pages
by permission of the author.
   
http://www.snopes.com/glurge/info/rose2.htm

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 09:09 PM

the rewrite is more interesting, the original is still a bit misogynistic - the snopes sight is right, it seems as if the story is that outward appearance doesnt matter, but Blanchard is creastfallen when he sees the (old groan over 40) slightly dumpy woman, and is jumping with inner joy when she tells him its some kind of test and he gets the blond..so its all about appearance anyway.

if the moral is that the guy gets the blond, then its a rewrite of the old Round Table fairy tale
where the Knight who marries the hag ends up with beautiful maiden.
It should not be about appearance.

Jerry R. is right, its not the romance.. its the years living together afterwards. true love stands the test of time.
Petr

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 11:08 PM

I met a man named Frank Mills
On September twelfth, right here,
In front of the Waverly
But Unfortunately
I lost his address.
He was last seen with his friend, a drummer.
He resembles George Harrison of the Beatles.
But he wears his hair tied in a small bow
At the back.
I love him
But it embarrasses me
To walk down the strewet with him.
He lives in Brooklyn somewhere
And he wears a white crash helmet.
He has gold chains on his leather jacket
And on the back
Are written the names
Mary and Mom and Hell's Angels.
I would gratefully appreciate it
If you see him, tell him
That I'm in the park with my girlfriend
And please
Tell him Angela and I
Don't want the two dollars back
Just him.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: CapriUni
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 02:53 AM

Petr -- I was thinking of The Knight and the Hag as I was reading the story, too. It's part of the Arthurian Cycle, is it not?

Let me see if I can remember it: There is a Lady or Queen who is under a spell -- a beautiful maid in the day time, and an ugly hag at night, and the knight of our story is destined to marry her... The spell will be broken, and she will take the form that he desires permanantly, if he can tell her what it is that a woman really wants.

...Something or three happens in the middle, which I don't remember at the moment...

But in the end, the knight realizes that what a woman really wants is to be in control of her own life, and so he leaves it to her to choose which form to stay in...

... I think, to make it a "happy" ending, the Lady chooses to be (conventionally) beautiful... But it might be more interesting if she chose to be a hag...

(Though it is still true that the answer to the question: "What do women want?" is "To be in control of their own destiny." -- Which is exactly what men want, too. But for some reason, that's more obvious in this culture...)

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 03:00 AM

True love is being a parent and gladly sharing that parenthood with some one special.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 06:47 AM

Of course, this is close to the plot of "Shrek"...

There is nothing new under the sun...

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 07:00 AM

Love is an old man hurrying to be ontime to have lunch with his wife at a nursing home. When asked why he did so, as she no longer remembers who he is, or that he even visits her every day because of her advanced Alzheimers disease; he simply replies, "because I still know who she is" Thats love....

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: CapriUni
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 02:18 PM

In my personal scheme of metaphors, romance is the apple blossom, but love is the tree which bears the fruit year after year.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Dani
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 02:38 PM

What is love, REALLY?

It's getting up in the middle of the night to take care of the kids and spouse who have a stomach flu (all but you?!). Not the first time, anyone can do that. But the 2nd, and 3rd, and 4th. And getting up the next morning, not walking out the front door.

Just one example that comes to mind...

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: JennyO
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 10:26 AM

What is this thing called, love?

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 11:15 AM

It wasn't a library book at the time she wrote in it.

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: The tragedy is not what we suffer, but what we miss. :||

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 01:24 PM

Love is selfless service. Consider the lives of Jesus, Gandhi, and Mother Teresa. That's Love.

Love is also complete, not partial. Partial love is just strategic bargaining with people in pursuit of a desired objective.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Amos
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 07:20 PM

The Knight and the Hag was also discussed in the thread called "What Do Women Want" IIRC. Very enlightening discussion.

You don't need to go all the way to Mother Teresa. Just read Dani's response. I know there are also male equivalents. But her example really nails what it can mean.


A

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 08:22 PM

It's seeing your best friend make a complete tit of himself with a woman who totally and utterly made his life a misery but he seems intent on doing it again... and standing back and letting him because it's his decision.... that's love.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 10:01 PM

Love?
It is a killin' fit.
Beauty?
It's a blossom!
And if you want yor fanger bit just stick it at a possum!!

Art Thieme----from Frank Warner

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 10:27 PM

Lawrence Durrell said in his amazing "ALEXANDRIA QUARTET":

"There are three things you can do with a woman. You can love her, you can suffer for her, or you can turn her into art."

All three were in Foolestroupe's little tale.--No matter where it came from, it is good thread fodder.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: MBSLynne
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 11:03 AM

Love is a different thing for every individual for whom you feel it. You can love a whole family of kids, you love your parents, you love your friends. It is also possible to love lots of members of the opposite sex, all in different ways. What isn't possible, I believe, is to love any two people in exactly the same way. Love is also boundless and infinite. However many people I love, there is always plenty more love to give to more people. The number of people I love is so large that it would take me a while to count them all. And it may sound trite, but the more love you give out the more is given back to you.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 11:20 AM

Regarding Lawrence Durrel's theory, here's what I say about loving a woman.

Love her AND turn her into art. She is a work of art. No question about it. Love her totally, because she is a walking example of God's mysterious and glorious perfection...BUT...don't lose your own sovereignty in the process! If you can manage that, you're on solid ground. (I always found it tricky.)

I say these things mostly just to remind myself. ;-)

"the more love you give out the more is given back to you."

You are so right, Lynne. The thing with love is, you gotta love everybody, not just that one "special" person. If you do, plenty of love will come back. (Note that loving everybody does not necessarily mean you will like everybody...in terms of their outward personality.)

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 04:13 PM

Totally agree... can love someone totally but not like them at that moment...

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 08:12 PM

in the Knight and Hag tale, Sir Gawain who marries the old crone, is asked the question whether he prefers her to be beautiful by day or night. And since he doesnt want to decide her fate, hes says that it is her choice (giving her respect as a human being). Whereupon she turns into and stays a beautiful maiden.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 10:57 PM

I fell in love with my husband before I ever met him face to face. But fortunately for me I was never put to the test, because my husband is an extremely handsome man.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: CapriUni
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:50 AM

The thing with love is, you gotta love everybody

"Love all, trust few, do wrong to none." -- Shakespeare (can't remember which play at the moment, but I remember hearing that line on stage at the Folgier Library theater. It's part of the parting advice a mother gives to her son before he goes traveling)

Or, in another version I once heard: "Love many, trust few. Always paddle your own canoe."

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 09:16 AM

Love it, Capri! And as I was pondering your post, it brought to mind something I read a couple years ago, in a book called "A Course in Miracles". Although this seems shocking at first, after a little honest self-searching and reflection it does ring true.

The course asserts that there is no such thing as a "special relationship" - that in essence our relationships with spouse, family members, close friends etc are exactly the same as with anyone else, even the strangers we meet on the street! What makes certain relationships seem special are only the social roles we play out with certain people; particularly, all the expectations and judgments(ie premeditated resentments!) we impose on ourselves and on one other within those roles. (ie if I *love* you, that means I must do xxx for you. In return, you must also *love* and do xxx for me. If we don't, we're bleeps! We don't love each other, we've failed, we've done each other wrong and we're gonna pay!)

This is why it often seems so much easier to be unconditionally loving, compassionate, tolerant, patient and generous with total strangers than with parents or siblings or children or mates. We wouldn't dream of imposing such burdens of expectation on a stranger!

Interesting attitude. And one which feels so liberating - for both self and whoever else is involved in all those so-called "special relationships" - when you 'try it on' and practice it for awhile!

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 10:25 AM

Exactly, Daylia and CapriUni!

"Love all, trust few, do wrong to none."

That is brilliant, although I would say that one can trust a good many people, not just a few. There are a few people whom one cannot trust under normal circumstances. There are many whom one cannot trust under very stressful circumstances. It all depends.

Anyway, good for Shakespeare!

When people decide to give "all" their love (or most of it) to one "special" person in a special relationship...and that's what people usually do...they go seriously astray. They load a burden on that one person which is unreasonable, and they deny a reasonable allotment of love to many others. That is what usually ends up destroying the special relationship in the long run. It's a dysfunctional attitude, based on separation from most of humanity ("me and you are going to go off into our own little corner here...our love nest...you and me against the world...") It doesn't work. The World is there to love and interact with, not to sequester yourself away from with one special partner. A special partnership with one should increase your love for all others and increase your participation with the rest of the World. If it doesn't, it's leading in the wrong direction.

This is not what you will be told in most of our popular books, movies, songs, and poems...needless to say! ;-) We have all been taught from birth to be emotional vampires on one another in this society. Our common myth of romance is ANYTHING but loving in its real nature. It's vicious. You see the results all around in broken marriages and broken relationships.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 10:31 AM

from the paper today in sydney -

With a 'God bless' she knew her sweetheart was alive
By Alan Ramsey August 10, 2005, sydney morning herald

JEAN Whyte, from Leura, married her soldier sweetheart, a private, five weeks before he sailed to Singapore, eventually to become a prisoner of war of the Japanese. That was 64 years ago. She would sit at night in the Blue Mountains with her short-wave radio, bought with wedding money, and search the airwaves for any news of him. He would sit in Changi prison and write poetry for her. Four years, six months and two weeks would pass before they held each other again, on September 22, 1945. That was the day he arrived home by flying boat at Rose Bay. A newspaper photo of the pair embracing is the centrepiece of Jean's album of memories. He is wearing the jumper she knitted when they thought he was being sent to the Middle East. He kept it in his kitbag all the years he was a POW, vowing to survive to wear it the day he returned home to his young bride.

David Griffin, also from Leura, married Jean on Saturday, March 8, 1941. He was 25. She was 22. He had enlisted, at his third try, in the AIF's new 8th Division 24 hours earlier. The army put him in a unit that looked after ambulances. The convoy of ships that took him overseas, and into captivity 11 months later, sailed from Sydney Harbour on April 11, 1941 - Good Friday. He died on March 25 last year, aged 88.

Two years before his death, Griffin published a book of poems, Changi Days, under the dedication: "To Jean, my wife of over 60 years who saw me go, waited long years for my return and was there when I came back." She is now 86 and still drives her ride-on mower, his 80th birthday gift, at their property near Mittagong.

Theirs is a great love story.

In 1944 Japanese headquarters in Singapore sent a motorcycle rider to Changi with a radio message which had been monitored overnight. It was addressed: "NX69235, Sgt (Charles) David Griffin, 2/3 motor ambulance convoy. From wife. Message: 'Dearest David. Well, happy. Hope together soon. July radio received. Family, aunts, daddy, Ted and Chris send greetings. Love kisses sweetheart. Jeannie.' "

She recalls: "I'd got this radio message which was picked up by a woman on short-wave in Western Australia, and she sent it on to me. It was very stilted, from the Japanese, saying David was well, which he didn't even know had been sent. I replied, of course, and the Japanese picked it up in Singapore and sent it out by motorbike to the jail, because they were so thrilled I'd responded to their message."

It was the only radio message that got through to David Griffin in 3½ years of captivity. His wife got three of his. One of these, sent 61 years ago tomorrow, read: "Dearest Jeannie. Very well and cheerful. Still in [prison] library [at Changi]. My thoughts are flying to our reunion. David. 11 Aug, '44."

What Jean remembers with the greatest joy is the day early in 1944, before the radio message was picked up in Western Australia, that she got a handwritten postcard from Changi prison. After the fall of Singapore in February 1942 and the surrender of all British and Allied forces, including 23,000 Australians, David Griffin had been posted "missing, believed a POW". It was another nine months before she officially learnt he was alive. The postcard came 15 months later.

"Daddy and I were eating our lunch at home in Leura and I could hear postie blowing his whistle. I said, 'I think he must have something,' so I ran down to the gate and there was postie sitting on his horse, holding up this card. He had a lot of cards, and mine was from David saying 'God bless'. The Japanese allowed a maximum 30 words. I got four of David's cards all together, I think, and I used to carry them with me. Near the end of the war somebody pinched my wallet, so they were gone."

Griffin would become Sydney's lord mayor years later and be knighted by the NSW Askin government. His "Jeannie" was with him in their sunroom the morning he had a stroke 17 months ago. He died without regaining consciousness.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Dani
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 11:08 AM

Little Hawk, that is right on. I believe that true love CREATES love, that if it is real and true, it overflows and MUST be shared in some way. Selfish love is NOT true love, because it only takes, and doesn't give.

You have sent me back to Khalil Gibran. He and Rumi are the best writers on love that I know. Well, them and Bruce ; ) I'll be back after I read some more!

Thanks for starting this thread. Maybe a song will come out of this yet, for it is far from BS.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 11:27 AM

Khalil Gibran is as good as it gets. He was tuned right in on the highest. I haven't read Rumi as yet.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: GUEST,KT
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:52 PM

Dani and Little Hawk, With regard to Kahlil Gibran - YES!!! Eternal truth and wisdom in his words. I am amazed each and every time I go back to "The Prophet," and find myself wondering, " Who was this guy Gibran?"   KT

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Dani
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 04:38 PM

Absolutely. I put "The Prophet" aside and forget for a while, then when I pick it up, I'm amazed all over again. Also interesting to see what I marked at different times of my life ; )

Rumi was a Sufi who lived in the 1200's. He founded the order of dervishes known as the Whirling Dervishes. And the man knew his stuff when it came to love. Google a little and sample some. I think he wrote 10's of 1000's of poems, and some are so beautiful they can make you cry. And some are so salty, down-to-earth they'll make you (well, someone...) blush. And funny. All kinds of good stuff.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 05:31 PM

Prelude to a letdown.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Amos
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 05:40 PM

Rumi is also as good as it gets when it comes to poetics and insight. Y'all have a treat up if you haven't savoured his stuff.

A

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:06 PM

Reading about Rumi inspired me to get "The Music of Life" off my bookshelf and open it at random. I thought maybe another great Sufi master - Hazrat Inayat Khan - might have something worth sharing about love on this, a musician's site.

Well, I think he did!    :-D    And I'd like to share the paragraph I turned to ...

"In India there are vina players who do not need to play a symphony in order to exert an influence, in order to produce a spiritual phenomenon. They only have to take the vina in their hand and strike one note. As soon as they strike one note it penetrates through and through; in striking one or two notes they have tuned the audience. The sound works on all the nerves; it is like playing on the flute that is in every heart. Their instrument becomes simply a source, the response to which is found in the heart of every person, friend and foe alike. Let the most antagonistic person come before a real vina player and he cannot keep his antagonism. As soon as the notes have touched that person, he cannot prevent the vibrations that are created in him, he cannot help becoming a friend. Therefore in India such players are often called, instead of musicians, "vina magicians". Their music is magic."

(From "The Music of Life", Hazrat Inayat Khan, pg 136)

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:19 PM

If you don't like the idea of the woman who writes in a library book, what do you think of the guy who steals the book from the library? He evidently has, since he has it in his hand 13 months later.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: CapriUni
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 08:14 PM

. Let the most antagonistic person come before a real vina player and he cannot keep his antagonism.

That reminds me of the line that runs around the head of Pete Seeger's banjo:

"This machine surrounds hate, and forces it to surrender."

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Dani
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 09:47 PM

Went back and found the first piece that turned me on to Rumi:

"There is a community of the spirit.
Join it, and feel the delight
Of walking in the noisy street,
And BEING the noise.

Drink ALL your passion,
And be a disgrace.

Close both eyes
To see with the other eye.

Open your hands,
If you want to be held.

Sit down in this circle."


This is just a piece of a much, much more. It should also be said that much of Rumi's poetry was centered on passion for the Divine, though he said that when "he met the powerful wandering dervish, Shams of Tabriz, 'What I had thought of before as God, I met today in a human being.'"

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: KT
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 11:28 PM

Beautiful, Dani. My familiarity with Rumi is limited, but I have a feeling that won't be the case for long. Thanks for sharing it.
KT

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Les B
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 12:33 AM

As I remember, in the tale of the knight and the hag (a witch), the moral of the story was; "... and no matter how beautiful a woman is, if you don't let her do what she damned well pleases she'll turn into a witch in a flash !!"

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: MBSLynne
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 03:17 AM

Somehow I've managed to miss Rumi all my life. Never heard of him before. But you now have me interested and I shall go and Google immediately. Lifelong fan of Khalil Gibran though

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 04:25 AM

Wow! I am also off to read Rumi... Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: CapriUni
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 04:51 AM

although I would say that one can trust a good many people, not just a few.

Oh, I agree, LH. But as a piece of advice to someone leaving home for the first time, "trust few," is valid. Don't trust people simply bcause they ask you to, and don't put your life in anyone's hands until you've both earned each other's trust.

But in the meantime, love them anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 10:13 AM

Recipe for an ideal marriage:

A marriage should be a giving contest.

The one who gives the most gets to be one of the two big winners!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 01:35 PM

Agreed, Capri.

Subject: RE: BS: What Love Really Is
From: KT
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 01:58 PM

For anyone interested, if you do a google search on Kahlil Gibran, the third one down will take you to "The Prophet" in its entirety. Don't even have to get up from the computer to find your copy.

KT