BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 06:48 AM

David, would the following be true of your party's goals?

(1) A subject of the state is one who belongs to the
protective union of Great Britain, and who, therefore, has
specific obligations to the Kingdom.
(2) A citizen of the Kingdom is one who is of
British or kindred blood, and who, through his behavior, shows
that he is both desirous and personally fit to serve loyally the
British people and the Kingdom.
(3) The right to citizenship is obtained by the grant of
citizenship papers.
(4) Only the citizen of the Kingdom of Great Britain may enjoy full political
rights in consonance with the provisions of the laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 06:48 AM

Judge quote in reference to my own case.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 06:52 AM

From the manifesto, this should answer your question:

11. While accepting the right of law-abiding minorities, in our country because they or their ancestors came here legally, to remain here and to enjoy the full protection of the law against any form of harassment or hostility, we will also seek to emphasise the importance of the prior status of the aboriginal people. This would be a national extension of the 'Sons and Daughters' policy in priority on housing and school places lists which BNP councils seek to implement at local level.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 06:54 AM

Like any murder, it's sick. Your point?

Was Gable after the family silver or was it something else?

Rejection of ID cards, but are you going to do something of the sort for what you call foreigners, or will you simply deport them. Do your party members know about item #4?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 06:58 AM

No i asked what do you think about BBC Biased news reporting?

Item 4, please specify section?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 07:02 AM

So those four points are true about your party?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 07:04 AM

News is always biased, one way or another.
Item 4 on your manifesto and do you agree with the four points I asked you about?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 07:43 AM

4. All political parties should be protected by a new law which makes the employment of violence or intimidation for political purposes a serious offence carrying a minimum of two years in prison, or a doubling of the usual sentence for the offence, whichever is the greater.

That one?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,Dave Hannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 07:45 AM

News is always biased, one way or another.

Agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 07:56 AM

Yes, David and do you agree with the points I asked you about?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:28 AM

Any member who has read manifesto knows about section 4 i imagine yes.

I agree with some of the points and some do not go far enough.

1) A subject of the state is one who belongs to the
protective union of Great Britain, and who, therefore, has
specific obligations to the Kingdom.

I agree with this, as it encompasses the fact that both native Britons and ethnic residents both have a full responsibility to the obligations of the law of the land.

(2) A citizen of the Kingdom is one who is of
British or kindred blood, and who, through his behavior, shows
that he is both desirous and personally fit to serve loyally the
British people and the Kingdom.

Well this is simply not true as of present. Also, as it is unrealistic to expect to never have minorities in the UK, it would exclude those minorities from the demand of rights earned and laws abided by in the UK. If we expect the same of native Britons, we expect the same of all who reside in the UK.

What other parts of the manifesto do you like aside from the ID card policy?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:30 AM

ESTATE YOBS CLAIM TO BE `TERRORISTS

Aug 11 2005

Police pledge to crack downon `childish' gangof thugs

By Alan Lodge


YOUTHS battered an innocent pedestrian with an iron rod in a brutal attack at the Mill Quay estate on the Isle of Dogs.

Shocked residents witnessed the assault at around 7.45pm last Tuesday night (August 2) on the housing estate off Wheat Sheaf, just south of Millwall Dock.

An eyewitness, who lives on the estate, told The Wharf: ``I noticed a group of seven Asian teenagers prowling the estate in a menacing way, and calling themselves `terrorists'.

``From their attitude, it was immediately obvious that trouble was brewing.

``Only minutes later, I witnessed them use an iron rod to assault a pedestrian adjacent to Millwall Dock, followed immediately by an attempted assault on a jogger.

``Both attacks were completely unprovoked, and, in my opinion, racially motivated.''

The witness called the police, who promptly arrived on the scene, and he showed them photographs of the attackers he had taken while the drama unfolded.

However, the police were reluctant to follow the matter up as both victims, along with the gang, had since left the scene. ``I found this surprising, as therewere multiple witnesses and good photographs of the perpetrators, but also very frustrating as the youths in question are regular troublemakers on the estate,'' said the witness.

``While they (the police) were trying to convince me to drop the matter, both victims fortunately returned the scene.

``One of them had a deep red welt diagonally across his back from his hip to his shoulder.

``I understand that the police are currently under a lot of pressure. However, I am nevertheless disappointed with their reluctance to investigate a crime when the perpetrators are so easily identified.

``Small wonder that gangs such as these are able to roam estates such as Mill Quay, openly intimidating residents and causing trouble without any fear of the consequences.''

But police are not taking the attack lightly, particularly in view of the recent heightened state of security around London.

Chief inspector Gary Brown said the gang were being ``childish'' by calling themselves ``terrorists''. He added: ``We seem to be getting a lot of it in the borough.

``In the current climate it's very, very serious and we're jumping on it

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:32 AM

Very little.
Shall I tell you what you've been agreeing with?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:35 AM

BTW, when you say 'as of present' what do you mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:42 AM

Very little.
Shall I tell you what you've been agreeing with?

Oh, it is simply before you said there were parts you agreed with.

What? I imagine some sort of ethnic minority citizenship proposal? Labour Government proposal?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:43 AM

So what is the 'little' you agree with, or are you embarrassed to say? lol

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:51 AM

Very little, parts of free speech, etc, that I agree with anyway. if you think that means I'm for your party or anything like that, you have another think coming.
Now what did you mean by 'as of present'.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: DavidHannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 09:58 AM

You like the BNP's section on free speech. Wonderful.

No i don't take that as support for the BNP. I agree with some policies of the SWP, but it doesn't mean i support them.

I believe that whatever peoples political affiliations, one should always respect them.

As of present remark. The below point, i believe as of present, i.e in today's multi-cultural Britain, simply would not stand up. Because it would exclude ethnic minorities from the expectation to respect and obey the law and abide by our customs. This is not a good thing.

To believe that this country will never have ethnic minorities is both unrealistic, and perhaps even undesirable, therefore the BNP has stipulated that such provisions and laws that are equal across the ethnic spectrum be there. In other words, in a BNP government, ethnic minorities would, as many do now, obey the law and respect our customs and culture.

(2) A citizen of the Kingdom is one who is of
British or kindred blood, and who, through his behavior, shows
that he is both desirous and personally fit to serve loyally the
British people and the Kingdom.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: DavidHannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 10:02 AM

What? I imagine some sort of ethnic minority citizenship proposal? Labour Government proposal?

I am interested to know what i was agreeing with though. see my earlier post above.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 10:16 AM

Yes, I was just waiting for clarification that you provide above. What still worries me is as of present, implies there'll be a change.
Anyway, you might be interested to learn that you agreed with the Nuremberg Laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,Fed up
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 11:06 AM

The man himself..

Many BNP organisers have racist and criminal pasts

Unite Against Fascism exposes criminal elements in BNP

So why spending so much time in Mudcat these days, David? no one listening to you "outside?"

Other things to do with your life..

1. learn a new skill, take a course

2. Take up tap dancing

3. learn how to knit

4. play a sport

5. immerse yourself in a totally different group of people,

6. find out who you really are, for yourself, not what all the propaganda has made you - do you really exist, or are you just a cog in the wheel of the BNP?

7. take up stamp collecting

8. listen to more music.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 11:39 AM

On BBC News I found 3 page of search results for Kriss Donald. Much less than Lawrence, admittedly, but it's a far cry from NONE.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 02:00 PM

fed up Guest,

Thank you for your concern regarding my usage of my time.

I work from home, most of the time. During lunch, or during a break in the evening working, i like to go on Mudcat for two reasons, one because i like folk music, etc, and two because i like the exchange of thoughts ideas, though they often be confilcting.

Some on here have really struck a chord on here and made me think, such as Carol, others have not, lol, but i thank you for your interest.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 02:05 PM

On BBC News I found 3 page of search results for Kriss Donald. Much less than Lawrence, admittedly, but it's a far cry from NONE.

Well it is THREE from NONE!. Why do you think the brutal murder or Stephen Lawrence generates more media interest than the torturous murder of Kriss Donald?

What still worries me is as of present, implies there'll be a change.
Anyway, you might be interested to learn that you agreed with the Nuremberg Laws.

Aha, i see your point. No i meant that the quote would not fit in present day Britain as it would not be inclusive of ethnics in the UK.

WHich one did you agree and disagree with most?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 04:13 AM

Didn't the Stephen Lawrence murder take place years ago?
Next time before you start saying they don't have any pages check it.

The wording of the Laws ought to have set off your alarm bells. Like I said, they are something that might seem alright, but the wording worries me.

Does your party plan to favour what you class as native Britons over minorities?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: DavidHannam
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 07:41 AM

Didn't the Stephen Lawrence murder take place years ago?
Next time before you start saying they don't have any pages check it.

The wording of the Laws ought to have set off your alarm bells. Like I said, they are something that might seem alright, but the wording worries me.

Does your party plan to favour what you class as native Britons over minorities?

The Stephen Lawrence murder did indeed happen almost ten years ago. Also years gone by was the Murder of Gavin Hopley. Try also doing a news search on poor Gavin, very little appears.

Also, if you look at the respective dates of the Stephen Lawrence news hits, you will see that within a week there was thousands of news reports, and righfully so, and so should the white victims of racist murders be granted the same urgency, investigation and appeal. But that is not the case.

What a ridiculous question, no, we do not intend to favour native Briton's over minorities.We will end positive discrimination, in favour of best man for the job gets the job, regardless of his colour or creed, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 01:24 PM

Then how come you make such a FUSS about being different?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 01:41 PM

erm...lol. you got that from erm...where...?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 02:03 PM

"Hull BNP organiser David Hannam, imprisoned for three months in 2000 for distributing leaflets likely to incite racial hatred"

Its really difficult to take you seriously Hannam

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 02:13 PM

From you.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,bob
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 02:24 PM

David what is your day job?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 05:03 AM

Its really difficult to take you seriously Hannam

Your source the BBC? Its really difficult to take you seriously GUEST.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 05:06 AM

From you.

Erm...no.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 05:08 AM

Didn't the Stephen Lawrence murder take place years ago?
Next time before you start saying they don't have any pages check it.

The wording of the Laws ought to have set off your alarm bells. Like I said, they are something that might seem alright, but the wording worries me.

Does your party plan to favour what you class as native Britons over minorities?

The Stephen Lawrence murder did indeed happen almost ten years ago. Also years gone by was the Murder of Gavin Hopley. Try also doing a news search on poor Gavin, very little appears.

Also, if you look at the respective dates of the Stephen Lawrence news hits, you will see that within a week there was thousands of news reports, and righfully so, and so should the white victims of racist murders be granted the same urgency, investigation and appeal. But that is not the case.

What a ridiculous question, no, we do not intend to favour native Briton's over minorities.We will end positive discrimination, in favour of best man for the job gets the job, regardless of his colour or creed, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 06:09 AM

Source as requested

"Others present included David Hannam, the BNP organiser for Hull. In 2000 he was convicted of producing and distributing an anti-Semitic BNP leaflet during the 1999 European Election."

BBC on BNP

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 06:27 AM

Your source the BBC? Its really difficult to take you seriously GUEST. You use the BBC as a source of what...accurate info?

You are i think dumb perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,bob
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 09:41 AM

David what's your day job?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 12:35 PM

Why?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,bob
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 04:36 PM

Because I wondered who would employ you knowing your political allegiances.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 05:16 PM

Aha. I see.

Well some BNP members have suffered from discrimination by their employees, and some have even lost their jobs and income for their polical beliefs.

I personally do not believe anyone should be persecuted for their political beliefs.

I myself work for the BNP.

I used to work for a market research company in Hull on the telephones, it was very dull, they knew my political beliefs. I then worked for Tesco's, and i stood for election whilst working for them, and they respected my beliefs too. I have never had any problems as such, but others have not been so lucky. I now work for the BNP.

What do you think? Do you think BNP members should lose their jobs for their political beliefs? I ask this as a genuine question.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,bob
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 06:50 PM

I wouldn't single out BNP members. I have issues about anyone actively inciting racial hatred being represented by a Trade Union.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 02:57 AM

Well i think that is very fair of you as absolutely NO BNP members who have been expelled from their Trade Unions have ever been involved in inciting racial hatred.

I suppose the question is what is it that consitutes inciting racial hatred. For instance the leaflet that was put out in my name by a complete nutter certainly could be considered as trying to incite hatred, on the other hand, many people are imprisoned for using strongly termed language opposing multi-culturalism.

I personally do not believe in thought-crimes. I believe if someone has an opinion, then it is their right. I believe that if somebody offends me, that is their right, as it is my right to offend them back or do whatever i want or disregard them. I do not believe however that 'offending' people should be a criminal offence.

Away slightly from the thread topic, humans have offended each other since the dawn of man, and will always continue to do so, because that is human behaviour. To begin to imprison people for offending is silly and absurd.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 04:01 AM

I suspose the question could also be what constitutes offence. It is not only in the form of 'thought.' And that is where it becomes a criminal matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 04:23 AM

Agree. If someone actually committs an offence, then that is wholly different from someone holding opinions which the law or the state may consider illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 04:37 AM

Is this not accurate, then, David?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 04:42 AM

Like everything, not really no. As i have said before, as you are only one in a long line of people on here that have posted that, to use the BBC as a source is well slightly niave.


Do you think Trade Unions should expel BNP members from their ranks?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 04:48 AM

No, but I think the Holocaust should never be allowed to happen again.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 05:03 AM

Erm..how do you tie in the holocaust, (presumaby i think you mean the jewish holocaust) with you disagreeing with BNP members expelled from TU?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 05:09 AM

Isn't 'expelling' the operative word?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Muslims Rubbish?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 05:12 AM

Holocaust, with a capital H, means the Jewish one(s).