Tenor banjo - Princess

Subject: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 12:47 AM

I am looking to access the power of the Mudcat. I was at a flea market today and found this. It looks to be from the 20's or 30's. It has the name stamped into the back of the head and on the cross brace. It needs a bit of work but that is fine. Being a guitar/Irish bouzouki/whistle/aspiring Uilleann piper, I have always wanted to tinker/play with one of these. The body is in round, the tuning pegs are mostly original and the original case is with it.

I want to replace the tuning machines. Any recommendations on these?

Can anyone tell me anything about these banjoes and this company?

I assume the tuning is GDAE? String gauges?

All the best,
Mick

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 01:02 AM

Standard tuning probably is CGDA, but for "Irish" play most(?) people do tune GDAE. The GDAE tuning lets you swap off on your mandolin with only minor discomfort from the difference in fret spacing. If you buy a set of "standard" strings, throw the C (low) string away, and get a separate top (E) string it should work pretty well. I'll have to look to see what I used for a top string.

Most of the people I've known who play them replace the old peg style tuners with modern geared (banjo) tuners, but a "good" set of banjo tuners may cost you more than the rest of the banjo. I used four salvaged from a mtn dulcimer maker's "discard" table at a festival, and while they weren't a perfect fit they work fine.

I don't recognize the "brand" name, but many from that time period have the name of the mass marketer/distributor, so often the name won't tell you much about who made them.

John

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 01:13 AM

Standard guages for Irish tuning are

1st .012 E
2nd .018 A
3rd .028 D
4th .038 G

eric

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 01:24 AM

Mick,

Spend the money, get a set of good planetary banjo tuners. Get Five Stars or Grovers they are tuners I have used and stand by. Gotoh is a great tuner buy one will cost you a months mortgage a set will buy an ICBM.

Don

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 01:27 AM

SS Stewart made The American Princess around the turn of the century. I seem to recall a Lyon and Healey Banjo called a Princess.

Don

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 01:51 AM

As far as I can make out the American Princess was a 5 string "Ladies Banjo" and the turn of the century is too early for a tenor.

There is a "Princess" show up on this list where a maker called Lange is suggested.

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 06:53 AM

GUEST-01.51 - MY understanding is that the four string tenor banjo was
introduced in the eighteen nineties so that the Viola player in a string quartet could play a banjo without learning a totally new technique because the string quartets were losing out on Gigs because everybody wanted to book banjo bands . That from the Old Guy who ran the Clifford Essex shop in the nineteen sixties , when i took my Temlett 7 string in for some info on tuning (as well as a new vellum)

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: mooman
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 07:55 AM

Dear Mick,

I think it is a Lyon and Healy model as mentioned above although if it is the Lange Princess it is worth a bit more I would say. I used to play a Lyon and Healy short scale tenor until recently. (I have forsaken the banjo now to concentrate on the full mandolin family and guitar, and because I am a gentleman!)

Stew-Mac have a variety of replacement tuners on their site. The plantetary type are more expensive but do not slip. On my Lyon and Healy (and an earlier Vega N style) I used good quality friction-type tuners which are still available and which worked fine and, to me, seemed to be more in keeping with the provenance of the banjos.

The "normal" tuning for a tenor banjo would be CGDA but most Irish players use GDAE an octave below the mandolin, also as explained above. I am used to both playing the mandolin, alto mandola, octave mandolin and mandocello but GDAE may be more useful to you playing with other Irish musicians.

String gauges are a matter for some personal preference and to suit the individual instrument and scale length. I think you will need to experiment until you find what suits you best. I have used from .010P, .014P, .024W, .034W to .012, .020W, .028W, .038W (similar to Eric the Red above) according to the instrument... generally nickel wound (which last very well).

Still looking forward to meeting up with you sometime in the not too distant future and having a blast (and a few pints)!

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 08:50 AM

Nickel last longer but phosphor bronze sound warmer.

eric

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 08:42 AM

I sure appreciate all the help. Sounds like tuners are a must, eh Don? I was leaning that way, and you confirned it.

Moo, how would one ID a Lange, or a Lyons & Healy?

Anyone got any tips on setting the action?

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 08:46 AM

Big Mick playing a banjo! Be still my beating heart! SIGH...now if he would only lose the potato thong.

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: mooman
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 10:16 AM

Hi Mick,

The following sites may be helpful for identification:

Bill's Banjos

Mugwumps

There are several factors important in lowering/setting the action of a banjo. These include neck angle, skin tension and bridge and nut height. Rather than explain in a long post here, most of what you would need to know is on:

Frank Ford's Frets.Com site

Just scroll down to the banjo section!

All the best!

Peace,

moo

Subject: RE: Tenor banjo - Princess
From: mooman
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 10:23 AM

Mick,

Probably as yours sounds like an old timer it will have the arrangement shown at the end of Frank's section on "coordinating rods", i.e. a dowel-type arrangement. Usually, I have been able to adjust neck angle on this type using shims of veneer after loosening the wedge.

Hope this helps,

Peace

moo