'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World

Subject: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: bobad
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 05:41 PM

LONDON (Reuters) - Bob Dylan's song "Like a Rolling Stone" topped a poll Friday to find the 100 songs, movies, TV shows and books that "changed the world" in the opinion of musicians, actors and industry experts.

Dylan's 1965 single beat Elvis Presley's "Heartbreak Hotel" into second place in the survey for "Uncut" magazine.

Paul McCartney, Noel Gallagher, Robert Downey Jr, Rolling Stone Keith Richards and Lou Reed were among those who gave their views for the poll.

"I absolutely remember where I was when I first heard it. It got me through adolescence," rocker Patti Smith said of the winning song.

Ex-Beatle McCartney picked "Heartbreak Hotel" as his number one choice.

"It's the way (Presley) sings it as if he is singing from the depths of hell," McCartney said. "His phrasing, use of echo, it's all so beautiful. Musically, it's perfect."

The Beatles' song "She Loves You" ranked at number three, followed by the Rolling Stones' "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction."

Stanley Kubrick's "A Clockwork Orange" emerged as the most influential film at number five, followed by "The Godfather" and "The Godfather II" films in sixth place.

"The Prisoner" was the top-ranking TV series at number 10, while Jack Kerouac's novel "On the Road" was the highest-ranking book, in 19th place.

Actor Edward Norton and ex-Beach Boy Brian Wilson also took part in the poll, marking the magazine's 100th issue

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 06:37 PM

I'm very surprised Clive Dunn's "Grandad" didnt get a look-in, but fashion's a fickle thing.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 07:02 PM

Why no Sam Larner?

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 07:50 PM

A downright silly poll.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 07:53 PM

Changed the world from what? Into what?

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 10:20 PM

Wait a minute, aren't you all being a little harsh? 'Like a Rolling Stone' certainly changed me, and while I may not have had a significant influence on the way the world works, had it not been for the song I might have.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: number 6
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 11:01 PM

Great to see the Prisoner as a top rating TV series!!

'Like a Rolling Stone' isn't my favourite Bob Dylan song, I do believe it deserves the accolades.

Re: Clockwork Orange I saw it way back then when it premiered, was impressed.I'm a big Kubrick fan But seeing again about a month ago I was deeply disturbed, actually quite shook up ... I attribute this to how much the movie has evolved into reality and an 'age thing'.

sIx

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 11:24 PM

What, LSD didn't make the list?

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 11:27 PM

It wasn't a media-owned thing, so likely didn't count for this survey. Quite influential, though, as you say.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 03:43 AM

Like A Rolling Stone is a great song but songs don't change anything,
apart from how long singles were that is.

eric

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 04:30 AM

I think that war, religion, science, technology, economics etc., etc. probably had a greater 'World Changing' effect than a silly song by some bozo who has never seemed to have the ability to actually sing!

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 04:40 AM

...and neither of you (eric & guest) think that a song could have any effect on war, religion, science, technology economics etc.?

I find that incredible. Even if the length of singles was the only thing changed by it, don't you think that alone had a cummulative ongoing effect? I mean didn't that ultimately produce Springsteen?

(Or is that a bit of a long bow to draw?)

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Knowsfuckallaboutanything
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 05:29 AM

When my Dad explained to me what Chuck Berry's "My Ding-A-Ling" was all about, it certainly changed my world.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 05:38 AM

It was just a song. It didn't change anything.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 05:43 AM

It was a very different song from any that had ever been on the hit parade before. It changed everything.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 05:52 AM

what kind of people called themselves Uncut?
uncut with talcum powder? half cut with LSD? nicked with safety razor?

they are a bad influence on our nation's children, the sort of people who watch the 2nd showing of Neighbours when they've already seen the first.

ethnic diversity ....its our only hope.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 06:08 AM

"Uncut" means not curcumcised doesn't it?

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 06:09 AM

Not not curcumcised, not circumcised.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 06:22 AM

Didn't change mine much...

The Labi Siffre song 'So Strong' did though....

So did David Grays' 'This year's love'..... but for totally other reasons!

LTS

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: fat B****rd
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 06:40 AM

It changed me from "Is THAT Bob Dylan? " to "Gimme more Bob Dylan. Still love it and I don't worry about wether it changed anything or anybody.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: number 6
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 08:51 AM

It did change the world ... with the arrival of that song in the pop charts there there was, for a brief period in history, rock music with intelligent content and structure.

sIx

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: bobad
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 09:18 AM

It gave a lot of us awakening adolescents six minutes of grinding time on the dance floor which I guess changed our lives if only for that period of time.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 10:24 AM

OK John O'Lennaine, what exactly did it change ?

eric

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 11:09 AM

I could not agree more with the poll's choice of "Like a Rolling Stone". It certainly changed me. I felt the same way Patti Smith did about it. It changed everything. The first time I heard the song, I just sat there in amazement, and then I played it over 3 more times before listening to the rest of the album (Highway 61 Revisited). It turned me overnight into a total Dylan fanatic. It said everything that an angry, frustrated young person wanted to hear. It was totally incredible. It was unlike anything that had been done before. It was cathartic, highly intelligent, and emotionally stripped bare. I soon found out that you could say that about a whole lot of the rest of Dylan's catalog too. His songs are gallant, they are courageous, they are enlightening, they are extraordinary. They make you think...or else maybe they don't. ;-) In the case of people who find that Dylan's songs don't seem to make them think...well, they obviously have a great need to listen to something else instead. Fine with me.

Of the other songs, I can certainly agree that "Satisfaction" changed a lot too. A great, great song. "Heartbreak Hotel"? Yeah, for sure. Elvis changed a lot in society. The Beatles? No question. They ALL changed the World...because they changed people's perceptions. The World you SEE is the World of your perceptions...nothing more, nothing less...and that is ALL you will EVER see. Your perception of reality.

No other song changed people's perceptions quite as radically as Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone".

Thank you, Bob!

"I'll remember you
When I've forgotten all the rest,
You to me were true,
You to me were the best.
When there is no more,
You cut to the core
Quicker than anyone I knew.
When I'm all alone
In the great unknown,
I'll remember you."

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: number 6
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 11:17 AM

"The World you SEE is the World of your perceptions...nothing more, nothing less...and that is ALL you will EVER see. Your perception of reality."

You got it with that line LH!

And Bob did change the world with that song.

sIx

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: MissouriMud
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 01:23 PM

Like a Rolling Stone certainly had a significant musical influence on me in several respects - it seemed to symbolize the move of "folk music" into "pop music" - up to then even with the Byrds doing Mr Tambourine Man - my folky group of friends had considerd Dylan a folk singer, but after that we werent sure what his music was   - it was cool but it wasnt stuff we could replicate on our accoustic 6 strings any more.   It really emphasized the progression in popular music away from traditional folk tunes presented in realtively simple formats (Kingston Trio, Brothers Four, early Joan Baez etc) to a much greater almost exclusive dominance of singer songwriter material and more complex modern productions.   This had started earlier, including, Dylan's first album, but the electrification just acellerated it. The Animlals electrified House of the Rising Sun earlier I think but we never considered them a folk act - but the combination of the Dylans electrification, the singer songwriting aspect and the very untraditional tune and lyrics and the fact that it was Dylan, who was really a folk god at that time - just came together to affect my view of music. Basically for my purposes around 1965 traditional folk music was dead (in my mind) and it took me about 35 years to get back to it. I was aware of people like Doc Watson (I did see him in 1967) and John Hartford, but Dylan really moved me - and I think many of my contemporaries- away from that type of music for a long time.   I cant say the content of the song really did much for me but stylistically it was very significant.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Dave'sWife
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 05:36 PM

Can someone please post a link to the place where this came from? Thanks

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 07:12 PM

It was the first single to break the three minute mark for airplay. Prior to 'LaRS', DJs and their 'corporate' sponsors woould only play three-minute songs to keep the advertizers happy. Dylan's song changed that. How does it feel? Pretty damned good, Bob.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: bobad
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 07:13 PM

Here's the link you requested.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 07:47 PM

Eric -

The song itself changed the nature of popular music. It changed what was played on radio all over the western world. It changed what listeners wanted from radio. One could argue that newstalk radio was a direct result of that song.
But these are just opinions and would need a lot of supportive evidence. That was not what I found incredible.

The incredible statements were that "songs don't change anything" (yours) and "war, religion, science, technology, economics etc., etc. probably had a greater 'World Changing' effect than a silly song..." (guest's).

The Scots would argue that the bagpipes have swung more than one battle their way, and I wonder why William of Orange went to the trouble to outlaw the harp in Ireland if songs are so inconsequential. (Was it W. of O.? Not sure.)
Consider also the influence Pete Seger had on the war in Vietnam.

I think you are underestimating the power of songs to move public opinion. You might say that not much has improved, and you may be rigfht, but consider how the world might be if he had not sung that song.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 08:07 PM

Well, I've heard of (and even heard) some of those songs, but none of them changed my world!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 10:51 PM

When was the harp ever outlawed in Ireland? Itinerant harpers (and other musicians) were subject to very strict licensing (and severe sanctions if unlicensed) in the Elizabethan period (in England and Ireland alike) because they so often worked as spies, and were frequently a public nuisance. I don't believe that the harp was ever considered a threat in itself, though I suppose the sturdier builds might make a handy club at close quarters.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 11:16 PM

People seem to consider their own little group "the world."
Like Dave, I may have heard some of these songs but I never paid any attention to them at the time.
A 'rolling stone gathers no moss' I remember from childhood. Dylan's song doesn't seem to have been good enough to make the Mudcat DT.

How many people outside of North America and Europe heard these songs? How many people IN North America and Europe heard these songs?

To reiterate my earlier comment, a silly poll with meaningless results.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Boab`
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 12:00 AM

Eh? Never heard of it!!!

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 12:04 AM

Yes, I can't find any evidence of harps ever being banned in Ireland. I thought I'd read it somewhere. My mistake. I beg your pardon.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Minstrel Boy
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 12:21 AM

Q - There is a great deal of creative work of lasting value that you will not find in the Mudcat DT! "Like a Rolling Stone" is just one example among uncountable thousands of them...

It didn't fail to get in the aforementioned DT because it wasn't "good enough", it failed to get in because it lies somewhat outside the petrified mental boundaries of whoever composed the Mudcat DT in the first place.

You know what Dylan said about folksingers back in the early 60's? He said, "When I hear the word 'folksinger' I think of a room full of fat old people playing guitars." He NEVER claimed to be a folksinger. The fact is, he HAS played just about every style of music except jazz by now...country, rock n' roll, acoustic blues, electric blues, acoustic folk, trad folk, folk-rock (for lack of a better term), rock, religious/gospel, piano, guitar, harmonica, dust bowl ballads, and other stuff (like "Gates of Eden") that is simply uncategorizable.

Dylan reaches so far beyond the Mudcat DT that it's ridiculous to even refer to it as a judgement on his work.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: number 6
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 12:26 AM

"I think you are underestimating the power of songs to move public opinion. You might say that not much has improved, and you may be rigfht, but consider how the world might be if he had not sung that song."

Exactly John O ... Like a Rolling Stone hit the pop charts pretty hard ... it was the beinning of the word reaching out to the top 100 crowd, h .. what was to follow influenced more people like never before ... but as I mentioned this was a short period of time in history ... a short time but it had undeniably changed history.

sIx

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 01:25 AM

The world is a pretty big place, I don't think it changed anything for Kalahari bushmen or in England the Conservative party.

Personally I love this song and still consider it folk music, I was amazed by it but not changed.

eric

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 04:15 AM

Of course it changed the world. The true Taoist position is that ANY action whatsoever changes the world. In fact, I've changed the world by writing this..

Watch out for hurricanes in Florida in 25 years time.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:27 AM

It's interesting that Dylan himself said "Hitler didn't change history, Hitler was history." This is very true, but he did jump up unexpectedly and do something remarkable. So remarkable in fact that we can try to imagine what the world would have been like had he not done it. So did Dylan.

Note however that neither Hitler nor Dylan had any perceivable effect on the Kalahari Bushmen or the English Conservative Party.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:27 AM

The physisist's position is that any action leads to an increase in entropy (disorder). I think that we need a bit less world-changing and a bit more appreciation of what is in the world at any particular time. 'World-changers' can often be quite dangerous people (although, in my opinion, Bob Dylan is just an over-hyped silly-billy).

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:29 AM

I hope Dylan said that. Album cover I think. Better go check. I've done enough apologies for today.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:54 AM

'And all the heat in the world is gonna coooool down... that's entropy man!'

LTS

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 07:21 AM

I believe the songs, films, books and obje d'arte are merely paraphenalia relating to a bygone era that makes you wonder if we are really progressing in these fields of culture and entertainment. Obviously our tastes are more sophisticated and diverse than ever before so it always amazes me when people throw up the same song titles and albums as being "the best," or "most important" etc. The people I respect are the likes of Sir Paul who actually bought that record at the time and still feels as strongly about it 50 years after that momentous occassion in "his" life.As for the rest of the 20 or 30 somethings who voted for Zimmermans 23rd best song how did they participate in the cultural shift that supposedly occurred when 45s doubled in playing time? And what was so wrong with the 3 minute opuses that enthralled us before then? I vote for The Ronettes "Be My Baby" because I can; and because I have continued to play and enjoy my original copy for decades after. Can these sycophants say the same about "Like A Rolling Stone," can you Mr Jones?

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 10:08 AM

I buy 'Uncut' most months, and just like 'Mojo' and 'Q' magazine it appears to be stuck in the 1960's. Of course a poll amongst aging hippies will throw up relics like Mr Dylan and Elvis Presley. Time to move on perchance?

                Even strawberries get it.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 10:48 AM

The imagination and innovation that was occuring in mainstream music at that time (late 50's to late 60's) leaves today's radio and TV music totally in the dust. However...there is equally great imagination and innovation going on right now that you don't HEAR on the radio or TV. You hear it at small song circles and outdoor folk festivals and various places that the $ySStem doesn't give much of a shit about (not enough money involved). Tin Pan Alley has reasserted itself on the public airwaves, via radio and television and is busy feeding the public a daily diet of predigested garbage that all sounds the same and says NOTHING. What was different in the 60's was that Tin Pan Alley had lost control of the situation for about a decade and a half...and some utterly amazing stuff happened. By the time they foisted disco on us, the $ySStem was getting things well back under control, and it has only gotten steadily worse ever since. You can hear the empty echo of its crass insanity in every shopping mall.

So to hell with the $ySStem!!! It stands for disease, malaise, and death. It's a heartless killer. It honors nothing. Every young person knows this in their gut. They know they're being primed and prepared for a life of slavery. Why do you think their music is so full of anger? Why do you think the young Bob Dylan was so angry? Same reason.

Dylan wrote many songs which can arguably be called greater songs in one respect or another than "Like A Rolling Stone"...but..."Like A Rolling Stone" had the biggest single cultural and musical impact of them all. It was the watershed in popular music. Some others that had an almost similar level of impact, and may prove more durable in the end, were: "Blowin' In The Wind", "Mr Tambourine Man", "The Times They Are-a Changin'", "Don't Think Twice, It's All Right", "It's All Right, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)", "It Ain't Me, Babe", and "Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall".

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 01:39 PM

Count me in with John O'L., Little Hawk, fatB** et. al. The appearance of "Like a Rolling Stone" was an event that signaled the emergence of, for lack of better terminology, "youth culture" or "counterculture" into the mainstream of the Western World.

A huge number of young Americans and Europeans from a wide spectrum of social classes ~ including many future big shots, plenty of just-plain-folks-to-be, and of course a bunch of future burnouts, too ~ were suddenly shown that their thoughts and values [i.e., "How Does It Feel"] were no longer marginalized and invisible, but indeed had an impact on the world at large.

If you don't believe that something affecting me, for example, or Paul Burke, might have "changed the world," what can you say about something that has to have affected so many members of an entire generation throughout the English-speaking world, including, undoubtedly, some very influential folks. It's hard to imagine, for instance, that young Bill Clinton would have been unaffected by Bob's anthem and its sudden widespread fame. It's probably a bit easier to imagine that George W Bush may not have noticed or cared, but he was probably affected to some degree, too, just like so many of us born during the aftermath of World War II.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:05 PM

Good post, Poppa Gator. The job of creative artists is to articulate in some powerful way what others are feeling, but have not yet articulated themselves. So the song signalled the change in progress...or was part of the change, as you suggest. Dylan's gift was to be the one there at the right time to put it into words and music for the rest of us.

As for those who were "not affected"...well, yeah! There are people who are remain unaffected by just about anything you could care to mention. I heard there was some guy who slept through the attack on Pearl Harbour. ;-) I have met more than a few people who've probably never had an original thought in their lives. Anything is possible when it comes to human beings.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 08:04 PM

They guy who slept through the Pearl Harbour attack could not possibly say that he was therefore uneffected by it.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 09:10 PM

Aha! That's true. And likewise, the guy who slept through Dylan's performance of "Like a Rolling Stone" and attached no importance to it may very well have been affected by it also in some way, because the greater society around him was. We are all affected by cultural changes, whether or not we give it conscious recognition. There is no question that we have all been affected by Elvis, Buddy Holly, Bob Dylan, the Beatles, the Stones, Hendrix, Joan Baez, etc...

This does not necessarily mean that we are conscious of how we've been affected though, does it? Nor does it mean that we must like that music. I sometimes think the people who are most affected by a new style of music are not just those who like it, but also those who don't. I remember older people in the 60's who were positively obsessed with the Rolling Stones. They hated them. Those people were profoundly affected by the Rolling Stones. I wonder if they learned anything useful from the experience?

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 10:31 PM

Hey, you!! Wait a minute!!!

If anything, "LIKE A ROLLING STONE" was absolutely prophetic in that it foretold of a time when the nomenclature changed---and that's about it.

Yes, that was when hobos ceased to be seen as a relics and remnants of all of the older generation's Charlie Chaplin-esque funny guys who were now heading into the sunset--and/or Bilbo Baggins' gray havens. ----------- This song was a wake-up-call telling us that those scroungers could, easily, be US!!

The guys and gals we called the hobos, back then, morphed pretty quickly into the homeless when they panhandled on our very own streets! There was no way to romanticize homelessness. (It was too f*****g close to home--as it were!!!!!!!!)

Hobos were romantic! But homelessness was just frightening---pure fear---the stuff panic attacks came from. We had to learn a "SCAM"---as Bruce U. Utah Phillips might say. Some of us did just that---! Some asked for our loose change. My friends and I learned the FOLKSINGING HUSTLE!! Others died out on that very same highway.(Alex singin', "Goodbye booze"!!)

Dylan was telling the youth of his time, my generation, that it wasn't the old bum/hobo/jungle-hound/Dean Moriarty wannabees that were On The Road in these brave new times. It was me and you, here and now, who were one major disease, one horrendous crash with a drunk away from financial ruin -- and homelessness. We were one George W. away from financial ruin of the whole damn country--and homelessness in another large sense:---- The United States Of America started to abandon the people to the free market's aesthetic, and actual poverty. And where does it go and flow from there, good people??? Eventually, again, it trickles down and clobbers US.-- We have no way to find the millions now needed for our illnesses! The only "trickle down theory" that I've ever seen funnel real and actual well-being to anybody in America is the thousands of hidden Enron and big oil money sponges full to overflowing as they run with the big cash---while the guy caught 3 times (and he's out) stealing a loaf of bread gets put in prison for life. (What the hell is that all about? Where has any fairness at all gone?

We were one stolen election (maybe two) away from the new American Revolution that would gut every inkling of socialism that had wormed it's way into our lives and made life decent and good for those of us who saw the big money chase as something we would rather not spend/waste our own valuable time on.

Yes, changes will come, as they always do. The more things change, the more they get different! But neither this nor any other song will change things all that much.

But this song sure did shed light on what was coming!!

And nobody has clue about how to fix it.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 10:45 AM

To be honest I think some of you folks could find a valid argument for "Puff The Magic Dragon" to be seen as the greatest and most influential song.Me,Myself, and I believe; youth culture started in the mid 1950s and was spearheaded by Elvis, Little Richard, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry,Gene Vincent, James Dean, Marlon Brando, et al and young Mr Zimmerman lapped it all up (in his Minneapolis privileged, well educated, way) and realised he wasn't musically or visually up to the standard of Elvis and Co. and settled on Woody Guthrie (in the same way that Donovan did with him some years later).As for "Rolling Stone"; it is a one dimensional travelogue of lachrymose poetic symbolism that motors along with the same adroit sentimentality of anything produced by the Tin Pan Alley hacks of the day.It was aimed at the charts just like any Motown single and the chorus probably came from a Blues song (as with The Stones' "The Last Time").Having said all of this; I do consider Mr Z to be one of the finest songwriters of all time and own a majority of his output on Vinyl and CD and have been impressed consistently with his single minded approach to what he does. I think on this issue he would agree with me, myself, and I."Be My Baby" by The Ronettes still gets my vote or even "Summertime Blues" or what about "I Fought The Law" or "Rock Around The Clock"?

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 06:00 PM

Yeah, sure, Sidewinder... (what are you ON, man?) ;-)

Of course youth culture started in the 50's and Dylan lapped it up. Of course! You know who (some of) his musical heros were? And in what approximate order?

Ahem...

Hank Williams.
Elvis.
Buddy Holly.
Little Richard.
All the great black acoustic blues players you've ever heard of.
Oddetta.
All the great folksingers of the '30, '40's and 50's.
Ramblin' Jack Elliot.
Woody Guthrie.

Guthrie was Dylans "last idol" (in Dylan's own words), and THAT is why Dylan was emulating Guthrie in his early recording career.

Bob had already played country music, LOUD rock n' roll (fronting several high school bands....like the "Golden Chords")...and acoustic blues and folk...BEFORE he got into the Guthrie stage. He played what he was excited about at the time. He wrote what he was moved to write about at the time. He never wrote one thing in his life, in my opinion, that was pre-calculated to satisfy some commercial demand out there and make money. Not one.

That he did make money was inevitable, because he was brilliant. No amount of money is worth what he did. The money doesn't friggin' matter!

The phrase "like a rolling stone" did indeed derive from some old blues song(s)...and that's typical of Bob, because his songs are FULL of affectionate references to the decades of musical tradition he soaked up like a sponge when he was a teenager. Why? Because he LOVES that stuff, that's why. It's exactly the same reason you or I would put something like that in a song, something that connects back to the musical traditions we love.

The thing that pisses people off about Dylan is this, and pretty much only this: he's been way more successful than they have, and he's way better at it than they are.

Puff the Magic Dragon is a pretty trivial song. "Like a Rolling Stone" is not.

Good post, Art Thieme. I believe you are quite right in what you say.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 06:45 PM

"Like a Rolling Stone" changed the music charts. "We Shall Overcome" changed the face of America.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 04:08 AM

"Puff the magic dragon" changed Hull!

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 06:04 AM

Little Hawk you seem to have read only the first part of my earlier posting and felt compelled to educate myself in the messiahanic talent of the great Mr Zimmerman.I have been an afficianado for around 35 years therefore I do speak with some experience and I have read several biographies, including the excellent Anthony Scaduto effort, and own approximately 25 of his albums and frequently play his songs on my ol' guitar and keyboard.Am I not afforded an opinion with these credentials? Why some people find it necessary to justify and belittle rather than engage in serious debate perplexes me.All I am saying is that "Rolling Stone is a one dimensional travalogue of lachrymose poetic symbolism that motors along with the same adroit sentimentality of anything produced by the Tin Pan Alley hacks of the day."Also,"it was as calculated a chart effort as any Motown single release in my opinion.""Blowing In The Wind" has far more credibility as a world changing composition in my view and shows far more focus.Or am I wrong about that also Little Hawk? The fact I do not Ass kiss Mr Z does not mean I don't admire and respect the man with all his failings ( he did record "Shot of Love" after all!) As for "Puff The Magic Dragon" if that changed Hull, Flamenco Ted, then I feel very sorry for you people as that explains why the City was named the worst in the UK recently.To take this argument on a decade I would profer "Imagine" as being a far more significant song than either "Stone" or Puff" for that matter.

Regards.

Sidewinder.(Spokesman and Voice of the Person).

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 03:36 PM

You are absolutely right about "Blowin' in the Wind", sidewinder. It had a tremendous effect on society.

Dylan didn't need to craft songs to land on the charts, and I very much doubt he did that with LARS. It sounds like one of those songs that just burst forth on the spot to me.

One song that Dylan did NOT want released as a single (because he thought it was a pretty weak song) was "Lay Lady Lay". In his own words, he "begged and pleaded" with the executives at Columbia not to release it as a single. They said it would chart. He didn't think so. He was wrong. ;-) I believe the main reason it was so successful was the 4 opening chords riff on which it is based. Very catchy. It's a reasonably okay song, in my opinion.

You're right, though. I did not read your entire post with the attention it deserved. I am willing to meet you at dawn with water pistols, and settle this affair of honor....you pick the location, I pick the time... ;-)

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: number 6
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 04:16 PM

"As for "Rolling Stone"; it is a one dimensional travelogue of lachrymose poetic symbolism that motors along with the same adroit sentimentality of anything produced by the Tin Pan Alley hacks of the day.It was aimed at the charts just like any Motown single and the chorus probably came from a Blues song (as with The Stones' "The Last Time")"

I agree with this 100%, well worded. But the point is, it did hit the charts and it hit hard. Dylan was classified by the media back then as being the protest singer for the new generation (i'm not arguing that he was, but that was the hype). As I mentioned in a previous post to this thread it opened a lot of doors and minds to the 'new protest movement'. This protest movement changed a lot, whether you want to admit it or not. So, as insignificant as this song was lyrically or whatever, it certainly carried a lot weight in opening up the new movement.

sIx

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 06:32 PM

I may have the wrong specs on but I believe a couple of intelligent, though somewhat sycophantic, music lovers are starting to agree with my opinion (to a degree). As for "Lay Lady Lay" I must say that this is one of Mr. Zimmermans finest vocal performances and I have yet to hear a better version of the song than his own beautiful rendition.Those suits at Columbia must've known a thing or two after all.An interesting take on "L.A.R.S." 6 but the same could be said about "Heartbreak Hotel" and "She Loves You" etc. so your evaluation does not persuade me to change my original view.As a couple of great philosophers once stated: "It's Only Rock And Roll".

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 07:25 PM

Little Hawk can we make it a 2 leg tie with the Water Pistols? The first in Rio the second in Acapulco and if we draw level the grand final in Woodstock or Grenwich Village with Bob presiding and Robbie and Levon as our carriers?

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: number 6
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 07:51 PM

Sorry Sidewinder "Hearbreak Hotel" introduced rock and roll to the white teenage youth .. a form of music that they could 'call their own", sure it was a social phenomina , but didn't really provide the youth a significant voice ....... "She Loves You" introduced the British invasion, nothing more than that ... Mr. Zimmerman's number 1 chart topping hit opened a door where the youth now not only had a music they could call their own, but also a culture and more importantly a voice that could be heard and change the infrastructure of academia and most importantly the political system.

In regards to Lay Lady Lay I agree (also) with you Sidewinder Mr. Zimmerman's voice is good. In fact Nashville Skyline is good album overall (certainly not earth shattering) ... it is not as outstanding as John Wesley Harding and Freewheelin'.

Imagine ... I can't see why you would pick that as a significant piece of music ... I personally find it mediocre, slightly embarassing ... something you always hear around the Xmas season for some reason I can't comprehend ... But you are entiteled to your personal opinion regarding that ... of the 4 mop tops post Beatle careers I personally thing George Harrisons Isn't a Pity more meaningful, beautiful and significant.

sIx

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Aug 05 - 10:05 PM

Good ideas there for the duel, Sidewinder. Very cool. Let's do it. ;-)

I agree with your assessment of Bob's vocal on "Lay Lady Lay". It's great. Interesting how stopping smoking can improve the voice, isn't it?

I don't get how LARS is lachrymose, though (?). It strikes me as acid, sarcastic, caustic, and angry, but certainly not lachrymose in the least. I like the line about "your diplomat, who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat". Such a pretentious image! There's a lot in that song about a certain very pretentious attitude that people have when they think they are very cool, and on top of the social pyramid. "pride goeth before a fall" That song is a biting morality lecture, kind of like one of those stern lectures given by the Old Testament prophets to a prideful and vain generation that is heading for a comeuppance. Now why would Dylan not have felt that way at the time? He was surrounded by "parasites and sycophants", to quote Joan Baez, and by people who bitterly resented his success, and wished it was theirs, while pretending to be his bosom buddies (refer to: "Postively Fourth Street"). It seems to have been directly inspired, however, by Edie Sedgewick, by all accounts. She was a good looking girl who was hanging out with Andy Warhol, I believe. She must've pissed Bob off rather severely.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 01:27 PM

I don't know anyone who can be so graphically "acid, sarcastic, caustic and angry" as Dylan. To add to Rolling Stone and Positively 4th Street, there is also "She's Your Lover Now" - classic! Don't you just get the feeling that you wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of him.

Re earlier references to Lennon's "Imagine" - it's quite nice to play on the piano (if what I do can be called playing) but those saccharine WORDS? - purleeeeease.

Rolling Stone is great to play on guitar (if what I do etc etc). The lyrics are sensational and it's true for me that the song carries me back exactly to where I was and what I was doing when I first heard it. Hard to say if the song on its own changed me, but the whole Dylan thing since 1963 certainly did.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 01:31 PM

I like Imagine. Didn't used to much when I was younger and more cynical, but I do now. The part I like best is...

"imagine no possessions. I wonder if you can..."

THAT is truly challenging. Far more challenging than most people are willing to ever even consider. Lennon had something substantial to say there.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 01:52 PM

Well,well 6 haven't we been over The Beatle "issues" before and agreed to disagree? If you think introducing Black culture into a white supremesist America was not really that significant then you are really misguided."Hearing Elvis for the first time was like busting out of jail" said one Robert Zimmerman and "He made it possible for all of us who came after" said Buddy Holly and/or Little Richard.My own personal favourite though was "Before Elvis there was nothing" I believe you will know who said that 6. I am not saying that "Heartbreak Hotel" is responsible for these comments but it is an outstanding record still and not really Rock and Roll as we know it.When all is said and done; I think the artists are valued for a body of work and should not be tarred and feathered or put on a pedastel for a single song or album.The greats are deserving of more respect in my view.Finally, it was "I Want To Hold Your Hand" that heralded the British Invasion and not "She Loves You" but both are awesome pop singles. Little Hawk I meant "lachrymose" in a sad and woeful context although I understand how this can be misconstrued by someone who perceives "acidic, caustic and angry" lyrics.How are you Mr.Jones?

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 02:08 PM

Following this thread with much interest. To add to the historical corrections, Like A Rolling Stone was not a chart topper. It reached number two, but was kept out of the top spot by Barry McGuire's truly awful Eve Of Destruction (which was probably written in an attempt to write a song like Bob Dylan). How's that for irony?

By the way, I'm glad to see that someone else is less than impressed by Imagine. Lennon wrote some great stuff, but that one is seriously overrated, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Mr Jones
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 02:27 PM

I am not Little Hawk. I am that guy who was scribbling down all the weird stuff that Bob was saying in '65, in hopes to get a quote that would win me some kind of Pulitzer Prize or something. I have no idea what he was on or what he was talking about.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: number 6
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 05:41 PM

Mr Sidewinder ... In regards to Heartbreak Hotel, I stated the following ""Hearbreak Hotel" introduced rock and roll to the white teenage youth .. a form of music that they could 'call their own", sure it was a social phenomina , but didn't really provide the youth a significant voice" ... I do admit to it being significant in that statement, It did not though provide the youth a 'voice of their own' .. I also apologize for the spelling of phenomena.

Yes we agree to disagree on our opinions of the Beatles, but I'm certain we will spar again on that subject.

Appreciate (sincerely) your input Sidewinder, I always enjoy your opinions and sharing of your knowledge.

sIx

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 05:48 PM

If "Humanoid", "Yodel", "Rolling Stone" and "Baby" each "changed the world", it appears the world isn't very stable.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 06:11 PM

if that song "changed the world", the world was WAY too vulnerable and shallow.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: number 6
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 07:06 PM

Your so correct Bill D. ... the world at that time was vulnerable and shallow, that's why it changed the world.

sIx

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 17 Aug 05 - 11:41 PM

Little Hawk said "The phrase "like a rolling stone" did indeed derive from some old blues song(s)...and that's typical of Bob, because his songs are FULL of affectionate references to the decades of musical tradition he soaked up like a sponge when he was a teenager. Why? Because he LOVES that stuff, that's why. It's exactly the same reason you or I would put something like that in a song, something that connects back to the musical traditions we love".

I couldn't agree more. Bob listened to everything he could. I think that his willingness to love music rather than to categorize it allowed him to draw from all of these sources when writing. He has an unbelievable scope of work over forty years, yet he still does songs that he didn't write in his concerts. Duncan and Brady, The Stanley Brothers "Somebody Touched Me" and "I Am The Man, Thomas" spring to mind. He was a big fan of the Grand Old Opry, Bill Monroe and The Stanleys also had a big influence on him.

In terms of world changing I think that Freewheelin' changed the world a lot more than LARS.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 12:33 AM

Bill D and Number 6 -

What's this 'was' business? Are you suggesting that the world is not shallow and vulnerable now? I personally think it's even more so now.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 12:23 PM

John O .... the world was shallow and vulnerale back then ... it's beyond that now ... it's in a state of desperation!

sIx

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Aug 05 - 09:49 PM

Yup. Pop culture now is as shallow as shallow goes. A gnat wouldn't get its knees wet in this pool.

On the other hand, there is some great stuff happening creatively in the arts, you're just not likely to hear it on the radio or see it on TV...except very rarely. The radio and the TV have been taken over by what I would term "the Beast" (if I were to give it a name). The same Beast ran Tin Pan Alley back in the old days, and foisted Disco upon the World in the 70's. It cares only about money. It has no soul. It just has an appetite for more.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: mdricha
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 01:54 AM

Jeeze..this is why all can't change the world. You all take yourselves so fricking seriously. I could put up a song..and hmm..nothing but flames..nothing positive to say..better question would be...with such a narrow audience here..what song changed your world. And my number one question is..since you are all so great at composing songs..how come I don't see any of your songs on the list..
Getting ready for flames from snobs here..but here it goes..
Naive Melody..Talking Heads
Red Headed Stranger..Willie Nelson
Somebody Got Murdered..The Clash
What's So Funny About Peace..etc..Elvis Costello
Powderfinger Neil young

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: John O'L
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 02:09 AM

Eh?

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 02:14 AM

I can't speak for the world, but the songs of Bob Dylan certainly changed me, because they made me think: beginning with "Freewheelin" in 1963 right thru to "Love and Theft".

LARS, specifically, changed Bruce Springsteen.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 05 - 10:41 AM

mdricha - I LOVE "Redheaded Stranger" and "Powderfinger". Both very good songs by very good performers. I don't know the other 3 songs well enough to comment. One only has time to listen to just so much...and I have spent almost no time listening to either The Clash or Talking Heads, though I understand they've done some good stuff. Elvis Costello I have listened to a little...he's very good...but I don't know that specific song you mentioned.

Perhaps it is that we take the subject matter seriously...or perhaps it is that we just enjoy discussing it in depth?

As for taking oneself seriously...everybody does that. It's a basic instinct. Put a person in a situation involving extreme danger, and you will see immediately that they DO take themselves very, very seriously. That's natural.

On the other hand, a lifetime of experience can also encourage each one of us to take what we say on the Internet a bit less seriously, yeah? I mean, really, what will it matter five years from now??? Or five minutes from now? This applies to you, me, and anyone else here.

We're simply amusing ourselves, and there is no law against that.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 09:50 AM

A Hundred Years from now I won't be crying. A Hundred Years from now I won't be blue. My heart will have to forget that we ever met.But I won't care a hundred years from now. -Flatt & Scruggs ?

Regards.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: 'Like a Rolling Stone' Changed the World
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 10:13 AM

"What's So Funny 'Bout Peace Love and Understanding" was recorded by Elvis Costello, but it was written by Nick Lowe. Great song, regardless.