Subject: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Wesley S Date: 09 Aug 05 - 01:38 PM My brother brought up an interesting point last week. He mentioned that there are hundreds of songs that have a general theme about how wonderful it is to live in the south of the United States. Starting with Stephen Foster and Jimmie Rodgers we can all name dozens of songs about the south. "That's what I like about the south" "Are you from Dixie", on and on. But I can only think of a handful of songs about life in the north. Sure there are songs about cities - "Sweet Home Chicago" "Detroit City" "New York, New York" - but very few regional songs about areas of the north. One of the few I can think of is "Old Cape Cod". So why is that ? I'm sure yankees like the north - so why are there so many more songs about the south ? Is it too cold to sing up there ? What's the deal ? Why are the regional songs of the south just plain better and more interesting ? Any ideas ? PS - "I've beem everywhere" by Johnny Cash doesn't count. You can't claim that one. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 09 Aug 05 - 01:43 PM I guess in the south there is nothing to do but make up songs. By the way, wasn't Stephen Foster born in Pittsburgh? I don't think he ever spent time in the south. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: MMario Date: 09 Aug 05 - 01:45 PM "The south" is an entity that is more or less defined. "The North" is a number of seperate regions that all just happen to be NOT "The South" "Old Cape Cod" - which applies to a spit of land that barely rises above sea level and is only 60 miles or so long can certainly be described as "regional" - but it's a pretty small "region". Of course any Cape Codder will tell you that the Cape is the most important region in the US - ;) |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Goose Gander Date: 09 Aug 05 - 01:48 PM Interestingly, a lot of the sentimental songs about the South were written by Northern composers, and they were popular on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line. Nineteenth century popular culture was steeped in sentimentality, and the rural South was a common subject |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Le Scaramouche Date: 09 Aug 05 - 01:53 PM Considered quaint, in the same way as a Mary St. Meade or Blandings. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: kendall Date: 09 Aug 05 - 01:57 PM Grand State of Maine There's a winding lane on the coast of Maine The Jamb at Gerry's Rock Springfield Mountain (Mass) A Tombstone every mile. Arrowsic There must be dozens more |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: pdq Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:00 PM Minor point, but "I've Been Everywhere" is a song by Hank Snow, not Johnny Cash. It is actually a re-working of an Australian song but credited to Snow, a Canadian! |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Barbara Shaw Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:11 PM Boston Boy Buffalo Gals Hills That I Call Home (about Vermont) Connecticut Waltz Massachusetts (Bee Gees) |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Wesley S Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:15 PM PDQ - I was thinking of Johnny Cash because there is a commercial on TV right now that uses his version - but you are correct. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:23 PM Banks of the Wabash* The Lane County Bachelor Acres of Clams *(You need not remind me that southern Indiana is arguably, though not part of the South, at least akin to it. But the Wabash is in northern Indiana.) Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: PoppaGator Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:28 PM Throughout American history, Northerners have generally considered the USA, or "America," to be their "home." Southerners, on the other hand, have tended to feel that same sort of sentiment, not for the nation as a whole, but for their region. I won't even try to get into the likely historical and psychosociological reasons for this, but I do think it's a valid observation. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: MissouriMud Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:41 PM Being a displaced New Englander I'll take an unscholarly stab at this - I think a number of things account for the lower volume of regional north east tunes - (not sure about north central) - lots of gross generalizations here so I know there some issues to take with this - New England was initally populated by religious groups who were not into frivolity a whole lot. I think it took a lot longer for music in New England to overcome that than in other parts of the country. Hymns were OK, sea chanties and whaling tunes were ok for the right context, a good war could bring on some good singing to commemorate a battle - but to just make up and sing or fiddle a tune about some little local place or event was not in their nature. It happened sometimes but it was not a daily encouraged event. I seem to recall Lomax having a section on the North east including things like In Good Old Colony Days, and Blow Ye Winds, so there were a few. A number of others have been mentioned previously in the thread. Cities also grew up early in the northeast and urban music and performances of european music were of more wide spread influence than in the more rural and more spread out rural and mountain states in the south. A higher percentage of people in the north east lived within a day or two of a major city in the north east than in other parts of the country - and the railroads were established earlier there. For many north easterners was much easier to go hear "performed music", they didnt have to make up there own. Contrast this to the south and other more isolated rural areas where tunes were made up to pass the time over incredibly mundane things - Old Yellow Dog Come Trotting Though the Meeting House, Possum on Rail, etc. Every southern, mountain and midwest rural community had their fiddler and would have dances where these local tunes would get played (plenty of non mountain midwest tunes -Big Sciota, Dubuque, Old Jeff City, Going Down to Cairo)- that was not the rule as much in New England where dances, when permitted were more inclined to be more traditional waltzes. New England also did not get the early "benefit" of the infusion of music from slaves and free blacks, who were much greater numbers in the south - including the banjo, spirituals, early delta blues etc. There was a lot of fusion that went on in the south before a lot of this influence drifted back to New England following the Civil War. A lot of these tunes were related to local conditions and places and self entertainment. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: pdq Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:43 PM Another minor point, but "That's What I Like About the South", a huge hit for Phil Harris, was actually written by Andy Razaf, born in Washington DC. Razaf is often associated with "Fats" Waller compositions like "This Joint's Jumping" and "Reefer Man". He also co-wrote "Black and Blue" which Louis Armstrong turned into an early "civil rights" anthem. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:50 PM There are many collections of regional songs from the north. Part of the reason why "southern" songs seem more popular is that vaudeville and before that minstrel shows would cater to romanticized songs about the south - performing for northern audiences. Why are there so many POPULAR songs about Ireland and fewer about England? Again, it played to a certain audience that was looking for romance and nostalgia for another place. Instead of patriotic songs, these are songs that reach for the heart. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: GUEST,Whistle Stop Date: 09 Aug 05 - 02:59 PM Dylan's Girl From The North Country comes to mind. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Stewart Date: 09 Aug 05 - 03:11 PM Right now I'm working on producing a CD of "Songs of the Pacific Northwest." This grew out of a workshop I did at Rainy Camp (Seattle Song Circle) last Feb. There are a lot of songs of this region (the upper left coast), but many haven't been recorded. Some are traditional, and some are composed by known authors (both old and new). These are sung by members of the Seattle Song Circle and other regional musicians, including some of the song writers. It includes classics such as "The Old Settler" (Acres of Clams) and "The Frozen Logger." The recordings are about 90% complete, and it should be out by late fall. I'll keep you posted when it appears. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Cool Beans Date: 09 Aug 05 - 03:27 PM Erie Canal Monongahela Sal Jon Campbell's plethora of songs about Rhode Island Lee Murdock's plethora of songs (collected and original)about the Great Lakes region. Lou and Peter Berryman's plethora of songs about Wisconsin. Nearly all songs about logging. Does Canada count in the discussion, or are we limiting ourselves to the US? Canada would give the southern US serious competition, songwise. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Amos Date: 09 Aug 05 - 03:37 PM Upper New York state has produced a good bag of songs about canals, road-gangs, some romantic early ballads transplanted from Europe or England and set to local venues. "Township 19" by Frank Warner comes to mind. I think there was a Hudson river region version of "Tavern in the Town". A |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Amos Date: 09 Aug 05 - 03:38 PM From his home in the North Comes the young voyageur His birchbark canoe All laden with fur. Cold is the air, He does not care. For there's joy in the heart Of the young voyageur. An echo from my childhood; I have no idea if it is authentic or Tin Pan, which I suspect. Anyone know of it? A |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Leadfingers Date: 09 Aug 05 - 03:41 PM 'Moonlight in Vermont' ?? |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Le Scaramouche Date: 09 Aug 05 - 03:53 PM From the Burl Ives Song Book: The Escape of Old John Webb. Springfield Mountain. The Ballad of the Tea Party. The Boston Tea Tax. The Rifleman's Song at Bennington. The Battle of Saratoga. Hullabaloo Belay (where did Shallo Brown operate?). Rolling Home. Blow Ye Winds. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 Aug 05 - 03:54 PM Both the US South and Ireland share (in my not so humble opinion) a particular aspect: Being (in the view of many inhabitants) oppressed regions with great cultural traditions behind them, a romantic view of the region and its noble past and culture is both easy and beguiling. Each has or tries to maintain a distinctive language or at least speech pattern, to help maintain its own worldview and image. This helps them look down on their "oppressors" from a high ground of culture. Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: katlaughing Date: 09 Aug 05 - 03:57 PM Don't forget Craig Johnson's songs" North Country Tragedy Keewanaw Light Way Down the Road (all in the DT or threads and also done by Art Thieme.) More about him and his songs in THIS THREAD We've got to get Art in here. I know he knows of many for the Northwest and Illinois regions. Are Wyoming and Colorado considered "northern U.S.? Or, are you just talking about the 13 colonies?**bg** |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: radriano Date: 09 Aug 05 - 04:09 PM Ivan Walton's "Windjammers: Songs of the Great Lakes Sailors" would fit into this category, I think. Contains lots of regional songs. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: MissouriMud Date: 09 Aug 05 - 04:12 PM Wyoming and Colorado are a different bag - Cowboy tunes - Old Paint etc. And then there's Texas! I think we may want to distinguish whether we are talking about traditional music or tunes composed within the last 50 years or so - a lot of regionalization has eroded in recent years so the differences are not so pronounced - I'm not sure that "Gary Indiana", "New York, New York" etc are really representative of regional music |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: PoppaGator Date: 09 Aug 05 - 04:40 PM Only about half of the original 13 colonies were "northern." The other half were the "Old South." ;^) |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Le Scaramouche Date: 09 Aug 05 - 05:19 PM I think the North is neither the South, the Midwest or the West. Agree, disagree? |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: kendall Date: 09 Aug 05 - 05:22 PM Margaret MacArthur from Vermont sings an old song about an Indian girl who guided some bad guys to their deaths over the falls rather than divulge the location of her village. I believe the song is titled "Malabeem" |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: GUEST,Melani Date: 09 Aug 05 - 05:48 PM The Rock Island Line (Illinois) |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: artbrooks Date: 09 Aug 05 - 05:59 PM Scaramouche, if "The South" is defined as being composed of those parts of the US that were on the losing side during the Civil War, and that is a fairly common definition, than the Midwest and the West are included in "The North." |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: katlaughing Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:20 PM And I always thought "North" was Alaska!**BG** (Got me, Poppagator!) Where the Silvery Colorado Wends its way When its springtime in the Rockies Art Thieme's collected (in Cheyenne)cowboy version of Barbara Allen Lots more where those came from...:-) |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:26 PM MissouriMud said: Wyoming and Colorado are a different bag - Cowboy tunes - Old Paint etc. And then there's Texas! But aren't we talking about the United States? Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Pinetop Slim Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:33 PM Lots of songs about northern locales have been mentioned, but Wesley S's brother's observation hasn't had to weather much of a challenge. The North, as a region, hasn't inspired anybody to write an anthem about it. "I wish I was in Masie. Hooray! Hooray." |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: katlaughing Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:47 PM Well, my Grandma Flora wrote a song for Colorado, "Land of Heart's Delight" sung to the tune of "Beulah Land." The refrain follows: O, fairest land, my native strand, Thy lofty peaks inspire me Fresh courage for life's troubled sea, And in majestic lanscapes view A work in life for me to do-- My Colorado, grand and true! (Last line, last time ends with "My Colorado, I love you.) Uncle DaveO...LOL!! |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: DannyC Date: 09 Aug 05 - 06:53 PM One of the favorites from growing up in Philly was: "You Can't get to Heaven on the Frankford El" Then there was: "One the Way to Cape May (I fell in love wid you)" The City of my birth has a very strong mumming tradition. There is an enormous amount of love and energy that people from my caste pour into the society of the mummers clubs with its big parades, its music (banjoes and saxaphones), and the costumes. The scene's signature song is "Golden Slippers" inducing insiders to step out into a distinctive flapping prance known as "The Mummers Strut". Music pioneer Bill Haley was a Philly guy, along with a host of other early formulators of rock. Long before SF's Summer of Love, Philly people were singing - "Where do all the hippies meet? South Street.. South Street" An additional aspect was street Doo Wop that spawned plenty of 50s phenoms. Little Anthony and the Imperials are a recorded example. The Platters were likely the top of the heap. A slicker version were The Delphonics. Many street teenagers (myself included) had the ability to find a harmonic place within a trio or quartet and collectively emulate a nice version of some broadly known Doo Wop hit. I suppose the genre's anthems were "Up on the Roof" and "On Broadway". And then there's MoTown... |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad Date: 09 Aug 05 - 11:28 PM Pinetop Slim was correct when he said: "Lots of songs about northern locales have been mentioned, but Wesley S's brother's observation hasn't had to weather much of a challenge. The North, as a region, hasn't inspired anybody to write an anthem about it. "I wish I was in Masie. Hooray! Hooray." Just because a song mentions a locale in the north doesn't mean it applies to this situation. In bluegrass alone it's tough to find a CD that doesn't have a song with the theme of traveling far from home and then deciding that you can't wait to get back to that little cabin in Tennessee/Kentucky/Carolina where the old folks live. Not to mention dreaming of getting back to see that pretty little gal I left behind. The genre is full of songs like that. Where are all of the songs about returning to the old folks in New Hampshire or Rhode Island or even Iowa? By the way - I'm sure Iowa and Rhode Island are full of pretty little gals. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: CapriUni Date: 09 Aug 05 - 11:47 PM Where are all of the songs about returning to the old folks in New Hampshire or Rhode Island or even Iowa? I don't know if this is "all of" them, but there's Rolling Home to Old New England. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Aug 05 - 12:18 AM No one has mentioned the classic "Maine Stein Song" sung by Rudy Vallee. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Pauline L Date: 10 Aug 05 - 12:33 AM Mary L. Mackay Isle au Haut Hills of Isle au Haut Portland Town Saltwater Farm The Maritime Provinces and Maine constitute a region. If we consider the Maritimes, we could add a lot of songs to the list. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: DannyC Date: 10 Aug 05 - 04:12 AM "Under the Boardwalk" |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 10 Aug 05 - 07:55 AM Dave, haven't you heard the ad, "Texas, a whole other country." ;-) Is "Back Home Again in Indiana" a different song from "Banks of the Wabash"? (I don't know much about Indiana, but my brother married a Hoosier. "Everyone ought to have a Kentuckian in their family.") |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Bat Goddess Date: 10 Aug 05 - 08:04 AM Cape Cod Girls Gloucester Girls Living In Braintree with You In Methuen Is Almost Like Living In Lowell Rolling Home to Old New England Isle Au Haut Lovely Agnes (all about Lake Michigan) We're talking not just New England (real Yankees) but northern USA? Bunch of songs about New York. Let's see . . . Milwaukee, Here I Come Plum Island National Anthem On a Corner By the Pawnshop in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Oh, yeah, I think some Yankees wrote a song about the South. You may have heard it: "Marching Through Georgia" . . . Linn |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: RangerSteve Date: 10 Aug 05 - 09:09 AM Sometime ago, someone requested the lyrics for "the Blue Juniata", it still exists as a thread, and may have been added to the DT. The Juniata River is in Pennsylvania. Then there's this one, which I've had in my repertoire for years, courtesy of Grant Rogers: Where the Catskills Lift Their Summits to the Sun 'Neath the rugged mountain tops that tower above us, And beside a mountain streamlet chrystal pure, Nestled safe, the village of my birth and boyhood, With its quaint old-fashioned buildings all secure, There I met the modest little blue-eyed maiden Who grew to be my sweetheart, faithful one, We shared together honest country pleasures, Where the Catskills lift their summits to the sun. Refrain: The happy days of youth we shared together, In the mountain village where our lives begun, We feel the joys of love abiding ever, Where the Catskills lift their summits to the sun. We were wed in the evening, joyous springtime, and we left our native home and wandered far, To the busy centers where earth's eager toilers, Strive with main and might for wealth, their guiding star. But contentment was no for us in the city, Ever to our native home our thoughts would run, So back we went unto our own loved country, Where the Catskills lift their summits to the sun. Refrain. (The Catskill Mts. are in the lower part of New York State. Rogers recorded this on a long out of print record for the Kanahwa label.) Steve |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: RangerSteve Date: 10 Aug 05 - 09:13 AM There's also "My New Hampshire Home" or it might be "My Old New Hampshire Home" which was recorded by Bradley Kincaid, a Kentuckian. If your looking for old regional songs, try a search at the Lester Levy sheet music sight. Steve |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Franz S. Date: 10 Aug 05 - 11:07 AM Perhaps what Ireland and the South have in common in this context, along with the Spanish Civil War, is summed up in Tom Lehrer's line: "Though they may have won all the battles, we had all the good songs." |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: MMario Date: 10 Aug 05 - 11:15 AM I think what Wesley was aiming at was that "The south" (in general - not specific) has songs. But the North has songs about specific areas or towns, but not anything for the "North" in general. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: PoppaGator Date: 10 Aug 05 - 11:21 AM "Back Home in Indiana" is indeed a different song from "Banks of the Wabash." Although it was probably a "Tin Pan Alley" pop song originally, it's a staple of the traditional-jazz repertoire, dating back to the earliest days if jazz in New Orleans. I'm pretty sure that Louis Armstrong recorded it. Speaking of Indiana, "Wabash Cannonball" is a widely played folk/old-time/bluegrass classic whose subject matter lies mostly north of the Mason-Dixon line (and entirely north of the Ohio River, perhaps a more meaningful boundary between North and South). The Mason-Dixon line, by the way, is the boundary between Pennsylvania and Maryland, a straight east-west line named for the surveyors who charted it back in the 1700s. If extended straight west, it cuts across the central-to-southern parts of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, etc., states normally considered "northern." |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Goose Gander Date: 10 Aug 05 - 11:23 AM A related question: Why have songs about the South become popular all over the country, among folk musicians and commercially as well, while regional songs dealing with the North do not seem to have had the same appeal? The obvious answer is the influence of minstrelsy and vaudeville, but why were 'Southern' songs so well liked among Northerners in the first place? I think the answer goes back to nostalgia. Popular culture, expressed in song, compared the agrarian, rural South favorably to the industrial, urban North. Not that there wasn't plenty of 'rural culture' in the North, but it doesn't seem to captured the imagination of folks the way Southern civilation did (warts and all). |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: Wesley S Date: 10 Aug 05 - 01:32 PM Michael - You've made some good points. I wasn't trying to say that there were NO regional songs about the north - there are many to be sure. What I am trying to say is that there are far more songs about the south as a region - AND that they are more well known than any of the northern songs mentioned here. I would venture to say that the songs of the north listed above are rarly performed out of their own region. None of this reflects on the quality of the songs. Just on how well they've traveled. |
Subject: RE: No regional songs of the northern US ?? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 10 Aug 05 - 02:16 PM "Not that there wasn't plenty of 'rural culture' in the North, but it doesn't seem to captured the imagination of folks the way Southern civilation did (warts and all)." What "warts" are you referring to and why are you inferring that the North does not have them? |
Share Thread: |
Subject: | Help |
From: | |
Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky") |