Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love Henry (#68, Hedy West) From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 24 Jun 07 - 03:21 PM I don't know what Hedy West or June Tabor sang, but the source of this particular version was Mrs Orilla Keeton, Mount Fair, Virginia. Sharp noted the song from her on 26 September 1916 (English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians, I, 104-5 and Bronson II, 71-2, with more detail). Mrs Keeton sang the first verse but spoke the rest. This made getting the 'regular' tune a little difficult, and Sharp noted two variant forms, noting that the second was probably the usual form. Verse 2 presented some problems, and it appears in Sharp's MS, as quoted by Bronson, as follows: O light, O light, love Henery And stay all night with me And you shall have the cheers (or chairs) of the cheer (or cheery) cold (or gold) girl The best I can give you In Karpeles' edition, it appeared thus: O light, O light, love Henery And stay all night with me And you shall have the cheers of the cheer (or cheery) cold girl The best I can give you The removal of two alternative readings was presumably an editorial decision made by Dr Karpeles; she printed both tune variants, indicating (misleadingly, it would appear) that the second belonged to verses subsequent to the first. We don't know, then, exactly what Mrs Keeton said, or whether it had any particular meaning from her point of view. Perhaps she or whoever she learned it from had just misheard it. Anybody singing her version must make their own decision about how to deal with it. There is an equivalent passage in a few other versions: Will you alight, will you alight fair lord? she said And stay with me this night? I'll give you bed, I'll give you board, Charcoal and candle light, light Charcoal and candle light (Mrs Edward Gallagher, Chebucto Head, Nova Scotia, n.d. Bronson II, 63-4). Abide, abide, true love, she said And beg and stay all night You shall have your pleasure in my room With a coal and candle light, light With a coal and candle light (Thomas Edward Nelson, Union Mills, New Brunswick, 18 February 1919, 'learned from his mother who was born in Ireland'. Bronson II, 78). Back in Scotland, Kinloch's 'Young Redin' (Miss E Beattie, 'a native of Mearns-shire, in Edinburgh. Bronson II, 61) has Ye're welcome here, my young Redin For coal and candle licht ('coal an cannel-licht' in Mrs Harris' version). Elsewhere, the passage has mutated quite radically; becoming There's a cheer for you and a cheer for me And a candle burnin' free (Mrs Judy Whittaker, Anderson, Mo., 12 May 1928. Bronson, II, 70) I have gold chairs and the finest I have I'll apply them all to thee. (Lena Hill, Lexington, Ala., Sung 1946, text 'written when a girl'. Bronson II, 70). See also threads indicated above, in particular jimmie tarlton's lowe bonnie (child #68) which goes into the related 'white chocolate tea' question. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love Henry (#68, Hedy West) From: The Borchester Echo Date: 24 Jun 07 - 02:09 PM Who knows what the floozie actually said to Young Hunting/Young Redin/Earl Richard etc etc after he'd turled at the pin? What I sing is: We shall have cheer with charcoal clear And candles burning bright which sounds like a good deal. But what we do know is that the rat replied along the lines of "Nah, I'm off home to the wife". So she stabbed him. Seems reasonable. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love Henry (#68, Hedy West) From: Roberto Date: 24 Jun 07 - 12:21 PM Dear GUEST k., I've just listened to the song again, and it seems you are right, although the meaning sounds strange to me. thanks. R |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Love Henry (#68, Hedy West) From: GUEST Date: 24 Jun 07 - 12:13 PM Hi all, I see I'm about two years late in contributing to this thread, but in case it helps someone in the future, I always thought the disputed line from Hedy West's version was, "You shall have the cheer of a cheer cold girl/The best I can give thee." Meaning, she has no cheer, she is unhappy. k. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hedy West's Love Henry #68 From: Bill D Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:52 PM That's almost exactly what I hear...there one refrain where she doesn't repeat one word of the verse, but it's likely just that recording...she may well have put it in at other times. |
Subject: Lyr Add: LOVE HENRY (from June Tabor) From: Roberto Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:16 PM June Tabor's recording is obviously from the same source, or directly from Hedy West's, with variations. Also this transcription needs a check. Thanks. R Love Henry June Tabor, Always, disc B, Topic TSCD559, 2005. Song recorded in 1990; Mark Emerson, violin. As Lady Margaret was going to her bed She heard the sound of a musical horn It made her feel both glad and sad A-thinking it was her brother John, John Coming in from his wild hunt Who should it be but her love, Henry Returning from his king, king Returning from his king? Come down, come down, Love Henry And stay all night with me You shall have a cheer with a cheerful girl The best I can give thee, thee The best I can give thee I shan't come down and I won't come down And stay all night with thee There's a girl by the city wall I love far better than thee, thee I love far better than thee He's leaned across his saddle trim To give her a kiss so sweet And with penknife in her right hand She's wounded him in full deep, deep She's wounded him in full deep Woe be, woe be, Lady Margaret Woe be, woe be to thee Don't you see my thick heart's blood Run a-trickling down my knee, knee Run a-trickling down my knee? She's called unto a maid of hers: The secret keep on me And all the fair robes on my body Shall always be to thee, thee Shall always be to thee One's taken him by the long yellow hair The other one by the feet They throwed him into the well water Which was both cold and deep, deep Which was both cold and deep Lie there, lie there, Love Henry Until the flesh rots off your bones There's a girl by the city wall Thinks long on your coming home, home Thinks long on your coming home It's up and spoke a pretty litte bird A-sitting on a willow tree: There never was a girl by the city wall He loved far better than thee, thee He loved far better than thee Come down, come down my pretty little bird And sit all on my knee Your cage shall be made of the beaten gold And the bars of ivory, -ry And the bars of ivory I shan't come down and I won't come down And sit all on your knee For you have murdered your own true love Far sooner you would kill me, me Far sooner you would kill me O, if I had an arrow in my hand My bow on a tuneful string I'd fire a dart to pierce your heart So you could no longer sing, sing You could no longer sing O, if you had an arrow in your hand Your bow on a tuneful srring I'd spread my wings and fly away And tune my voice to sing, sing And tune my voice to sing |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hedy West's Love Henry #68 From: Bill D Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:01 PM ok, for those who'd like to offer an opinion http://home.comcast.net/~somethingextree/music/HedyWest-LoveHenry.mp3 |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hedy West's Love Henry #68 From: Roberto Date: 26 Aug 05 - 12:01 PM Thanks, Bill D. R |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hedy West's Love Henry #68 From: Bill D Date: 26 Aug 05 - 11:49 AM I hear "have a cheer with (a) cheerful girl" my wife hears either "you shall have the cheer of a cheerful girl" or "you shall have the cheer of a cheercoal girl," ?charcoal gatherer's girl???? but believes it OUGHT to be "you shall have the cheer of a cheerful girl." maybe I'll post the MP3 and let others guess.. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hedy West's Love Henry #68 From: Roberto Date: 26 Aug 05 - 11:08 AM From further listenings: "Which made her heart feel glad and sad", instead of "It made her heart feel glad and sad"; "With a penknife in her right hand", instead of "But a penknife in her right hand". But still I can't complete "You shall have a cheer with charcoal ...(???)". Please, someome who has this recording... R |
Subject: Lyr Add: LOVE HENRY (#68, Hedy West) From: Roberto Date: 26 Aug 05 - 10:36 AM One main problem in the 3d stanza, but I'm not sure of many other lines. Please, help. Thanks. R Love Henry Hedy West, Ballads, Topic 12T163, 1967. Cecil Sharp collected this Virginia version in 1916. As Lady Margaret was going to her bed She heard the sound of a musical horn It made her heart feel glad and sad A-thinking it was her brother John, John Coming in from his wild hunt But who should it be but her love, Henry Returning from his king, king Returning from his king Light down, light down, Love Henery And stay all night with me You shall have a cheer with charcoal ...(???) The best I can give thee, thee The best I can give thee I won't light down, I shan't light down And stay all night with thee For there's a pretty girl in merry green lee I love far better than thee, thee I love far better than thee He bended over her soft pillow And gave her a kiss so sweet But a penknife in her right hand She wounded him in full deep, deep She wounded him in full deep Woe be, woe be, Lady Margaret – he cried Woe be, woe be to thee Can't you see my own heart's blood Come twinkling down my knee, knee Come twinkling down my knee ? She called unto a maid of hers Keep the secret, keep the secret on me All these fine robes on my body Will always be to thee, thee Will always be to thee One taken him by his long yellow hair The other one by his feet They threw him into the well waters Which was so cold and deep, deep Which was so cold and deep Lie there, lie there, Love Henery Till the flesh rots off your bone That pretty girl in merry green lee Thinks long of your coming home, home Thinks long of your coming home Up spoke, up spoke a pretty litte parrot Sitting on a willow tree: There never was a girl in merry green lee He loved far better than thee, thee He loved far better than thee Come down, come down my pretty little parrot And sit all on my knee You shall have a cage of the pure, pure gold Instead of the willow tree, tree Instead of the willow tree I won't come down, I shan't come down And sit all on your knee You have murdered your Love Henry More sooner you would kill me, me More sooner you would kill me If I had an arrow in my hand My bow on a tuneful string I'd shoot a dart that could win your heart So you could no longer sing, sing So you could no longer sing If you had an arrow in your hand Your bow on a tuneful srring I'd spread my wings and fly away And tune my voice to sing, sing And tune my voice to sing |
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