BS: Are we anti-Irish?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 09:03 AM

"... How long did those making the assumptions about the anti irishness of brits, spend living on the UK mainland?"

Claims, Guest. Claims.

I've lived in the 'UK' all my life, and members of my family live in various places closer to the pulsing heart of it than I.
If the Kingdom is United, what difference does it make as to the part of it, I'm in?
Your statement itself is exclusionist...

When one experiences more suspicion than welcome in one's everyday, it has to set a fella thinkin'

(... on the move at the minute...)

I'll be BACK!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 09:54 AM

Dsve - easy with the Scottish being British idea! :) Up until 5 years ago when my grandpa Campbell died (born and raised in Glasgow), he would make at least one remark at every gathering that he was a proud Scotsman, no matter what lines the British drew on a map. This idea of English/British, Scottish/British, and Welsh/British could turn into a whole other thread! :)

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:21 PM

No, because there are no anti-Irish songs to offset the anti-English songs that the Irish sing. At a recent session it was suggested that, as the IRA had "ceased the armed struggle", it is now OK to sing Irish rebel songs again. If it is, I will have to revise Harvey Andrews' "The Soldier" as an antidote, although it is not anti-Irish, just anti-murderous bomber.

Flanders and Swann's "Song of Patriotic Prejudice" is about as close as one can get to an anti-Irish song, and that is really only ironic!

"The Irishman, now, all contempt is beneath
He sleeps in his boots and lies in his teeth
He blows up policemen, or so I have heard
And blames it on Cromwell and William the Third"

On the whole, in answer to the question posed in this thread, "No".

But don't push your luck, Paddy!

Alan

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 02:23 PM

Peter that family I had my information from lived in Chatham Kent, the man worked for British Rail, his young family of school going age still retained their Irish accents as they hadn`t long moved. When he was in Ireland on holiday I spoke to the two young girls, they told me it was hell, constant bullying in the playground, the father approached the headmaster and while he tried to help, it still went on, the father eventually was transferred to London and the new Catholic School was a big improvement.

Peter I listened to my English workmates and their prejudice against the Blacks was an eye-opener for me, I had no problem, due to the fact that I played football and Cricket for the firm.

Here in the north of Ireland the eastern Europeans,Portogese, Filipinos,and Chinese are the victims of Loyalists gangs who won`t allow anyone but Protestants in their areas, as a result the Cathilic districts in the town are now very much multi-racial, I hope the migrants are left in peace, so far they are settling in ok.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 03:09 PM

I wouldn't take issue with what you say arc mhacha, and whatever prejudice exists is likely to be more pronounced in towns like Chatham that have strong military connections (naval in Chatam's case).

But as far as school bullying goes, I'd still say it is usually a case of any excuse sufficing. I've been a school governor for nearly 20 years, and in my experience it's as likely to be because the victim is from a deprived background, overweight or just different in the slightest way, as because the victim is black, Irish, from a traveller family or whatever. In all cases it can be carried to horrific lengths, occasionally ending with suicides. As far as I can see, it's just a sad reality of human nature.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: The Curator
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 04:08 PM

I was living in Worcester in October 1974 when an active service unit was busy in the West End of London. Something the British stuck the wrong people in prison for. Anyway the guy I was staying with advised me to think about getting back to Ireland as soon as possible due to the anti Irish feeling throughout England.I saw it first hand and it was nasty. Irish families that had lived there for years became targets. None that I was aware of were Republicans. I can accept the English feeling towards the units that were operating in London, Birmingham and Manchester at that time, but to wreck Irish owned corner shops and public houses showed me more about their mentality than ours. I see it's again occuring again against the muslims. This natinality and culture has brought wealth to this country, and the nation that brought us combat 18 and the National Front are again making life miserable for non W.A.S.P.'s. I know many English men and women that lived long and happy lives in the North of Ireland throughout the troubles without a word said against them. In fact many were friends of mine. But then again we are Irish !

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 04:46 PM

Flanders & Swann, eh?
Ironic, eh?
"No, because there are no anti-Irish songs to offset the anti-English songs"

Your National Anthem springs to mind for one, Lanfranc.

I think the point being made is 'Institutionalised'
That usually means 'you don't spot it'
Which in turn means, 'you don't spot it when you're guilty of it'

'Don't push your luck, Paddy', eh?

We did, Lanfranc
And we won.

"But as far as school bullying goes, I'd still say it is usually a case of any excuse sufficing.", and as you know, Peter K, being Irish is a good an excuse as any.

That is the sad reality of anti-Irish feeling. It's as acceptable as the jokes we all know and hate

And half the time the average Brit doesn't realise it.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 05:09 PM

Win? Win? We got out of Ireland and you think YOU won? If it wasn't for the fact that we will not give in to people who blow up little boys in supermarkets, we would have glady left the whole soggy dump years ago.

Isn't it just astonishing to have all these whinging Irishmen writing in to complain about English/British intolerance, which they know all about because they have lived there for years. Think carefully about that!

The Irish have a right to feel disgusted while they look back at the nasty and pointless English/British entanglement in Ireland. However they will have to eventually come to terms with the fact that only a tiny ruling elite bears responsibility for the lot of it. The common English folk knew little and cared less. This means when you go on about stuff that happened centuries ago we get the conclusion that you're whingers, grudge bearers and lacking in historical discrimination, (hence thinking killing English children and women who try to comfort dying soldiers is a worthwhile activity)as well as singing through the nose in that horrid way. If one came across an English person who continually bored one with dismal songs about the Royalist defeat at the battle of Edghill, and sang them at you as if you were personally responsible, then you would quickly come to understand why SOME Irish are viewed as tedious little shites.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 05:13 PM

Tiocfaidh, ard, Curator,
If your lucky enough to be Irish, your lucky enough. :)

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 05:23 PM

"The common English folk knew little and cared less"

Exactly, Ooh-Ahh2. As the veritable Tír Chonaill has said:
"The British Establishment has treated it's citizens like the proverbial mushroom over the years.
... it's the old saying..., you are what you eat."

"The Irish have a right to feel disgusted while they look back at the nasty and pointless English/British entanglement in Ireland", but "This means when you go on about stuff that happened centuries ago we get the conclusion that you're whingers, grudge bearers and lacking in historical discrimination"

Can't really win with that logic, can one, Ooh-Ahh2?

Why not just admit you're anti-Irish, and stop making us all laugh...?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 05:50 PM

.... and anyway, we're not going on about 'stuff that happened centuries ago'.

We are being so entirely present-day.

The thing about it is, Ooh-Ahh2, we are not polling your take on history. Nor, indeed, are we polling the nature of your gripes.
We don't want to necessarily know why the average Brit is anti-Irish....

...just that you accept that he or she is.

You are performing admirably, I can assure you

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 06:04 PM

Guest Ooh Aah 2 you seem to be missing some crucial points in this thread.
The fact of the matter is that while we are willing to debate this topic with prejudiced people , we really don't give a damn nowadays.
All you need to do, to find the modern evidence of what we assert, is , pick up any of your British Newspapers, almost any day, or listen, with a less prejudiced ear, to your broadcast media.
Why are you so unable to accept that we have thrived, after much approbrium and many mistakes on our part,as a sovreign nation and have now caught you up, in many spheres ?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 06:08 PM

Cricket, beachcomber.

We have to beat them at Cricket, yet....

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 06:32 PM

1. The thread originator, who identifies himself as British, asks "are we anti-Irish?"

2. The British (or English, if you prefer) say, unanimously and resoundingly, "no!"

3. The Irish respondents say, equally unanimously, "yes you are, all of you, and why can't you admit it?"

Did I miss anything?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 06:45 PM

Yes, artbrooks.

Point 2 has yet to be:
1. Defined

2. Accepted

Point 3 is also misleading in it's premise:

"Yes the average Brit is, and why can't you admit it?"The statement should read

Need any further assistance?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 06:52 PM

This is getting very monty python. Picture the group of confused looking hair shirt wearing men, running around lashing themselves with nettles and bramble.

" C'mon now lads, if the bastards won't admit they hate us, we'll thrash ourselves."

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 07:24 PM

It is nowhere near Pythonesque, Guest.
It's sad, that's what it is...

Explain to me why you chose the image of the 'hair shirt wearing men'?

Had we been 'Coloured', would you have used the 'bone through the nose' image?

We are trying to get to the heart of 'Britishness', and how the average member of that super-group of Primates see themselves in the World.

... and all you can do is to show us how you see others.

Are we getting anywhere yet, do you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 07:44 PM

You're substantiating Tiocfaidh's argument, GUEST and Ooh-Aah2. I am very interested in this thread. Yet I see several Irish people laying well-defined points and then I see answers from several that would call themselves British (English perhaps?) that are ugly with only harsh words and quips for response. I would really like to know the answer to Dave the Gnome's question that started this thread and I think that maybe we've all seen that if not yet proven to be among the average Brit, an anti-Irish bent does truly rest here with some of our fellow mudcatters. Maybe you're having a bad day perhaps? If so, I really do hope tomorrow is better for you.

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 07:47 PM

We won't be getting anywhere will we, until we collectively do a five minute Jim Davidson routine. And it isn't going to happen.

The animosity you harbour is all yours. You seem to be having trouble understanding that.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 07:57 PM

"The animosity you harbour is all yours."

That is about as comforting as listening to a hip-hop version of 'Sailing By', Guest.

'In real life' you can be magnanimous as you want to be, about the Irish.
The prejudice is nearly always 'anonymous'; a fact that in and of itself does not bother me (various permutations of 'Ohh-Ahh' would nearly suffice, however), but it just goes to show how unwilling the average Brit is to admit it.

It's nearly a guilt complex, some of you have.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 08:21 PM

Whatever would we do without you telling us all how we think? Try and wake up tomorrow with a more forward looking optimistic demeanour.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 08:24 PM

"Whatever would we do without you telling us all how we think?"

Probably go on thinking that the average Brit isn't anti-Irish.

I am optimistic, Guest.

I am optimistic that the general British Public will wake up one morning very soon and examine their humanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 08:43 PM

Tiocfaidh, yes, I guess I do need more assistance. Other than GUEST Ooh-Aah-2 (with his odd comment about an "Irish way of being boring") who here has said anything anti- or even remotely negative about the Irish, other than people from Ireland recounting things that happened to them or a friend or a relative at some time or another? The English who have responded have all said that they are not anti-Irish and that they believe that their society, other then some isolated cases, also is not anti-Irish. If you choose to doubt their truthfulness, so be it, but if they are saying something else, in some code that an American of Irish and English (and French and German) descent cannot understand, than please educate me.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 08:59 PM

You seem to totally disregard the experiences of the Irish, here, artbrooks.

".. who here has said anything... even remotely negative... other than people from Ireland recounting things that happened to them or a friend or a relative at some time or another?"

Does everything have to be pointed out in such a Freudian manner, art?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Tiocfaidh
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 09:06 PM

What makes you proud to be British, art?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 09:30 PM

There's a minority of people in England whose racism takes in the Irish, and that's actually got a good side, because they tend to be the same kind of creeps who are racist in other directions. There was an expression one time reflecting that - "toasted Irishman", meaning someone from an Afro-Caribbean background. Why I say it's got a good side is that it's probably a kind of protection for some people against slipping into those kinds of racism.

But antagonism towards Irish people is a minority sport in my experience, in the parts of the country I've lived in anyway. Ignorance about Ireland and Irish history, that's a different matter, but then most English people tend to be pretty ignorant about England and English history, and that's down to the education system rather than prejudice.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 09:42 PM

Tiocfaidh, did you read my post? I am not British. I am an American.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 09:43 PM

Think Tiocfaidh was talking about your pride in your British heritage (Irish, English, French, German). :)

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 09:53 PM

Epona, how does that make me British? I don't even think Great Britain existed when my English ancestors came over.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 29 Aug 05 - 10:58 PM

I don't know, art...How does that make you British? Tiocfaidh asked what made you proud to be British and from your statement earlier that you were of Irish, English, French and German descent, I surmised that T was refering to the pride you had in your English/British ancestry. (Great Britain the term was used as early as 1604 as far as I can dig up. Did your family emigrate before that?). I'm sure T will answer your question later if my explanation is not satisfactory. If it is satisfactory, though, glad I could be of some use and please, carry on with the discussion.

:)

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 02:37 AM

... Probably too subtle for artbrooks, Epona...

McGrath, you're confusing the issue here too... Easy on the 'racism', and concentrate on the word 'bias'. The World is awash with misconceptions at the minute, and we are finding it difficult to pin people down to the point we are discussing.

So far NONE of the Irish, or Irish-related, posters have said that they have not, either experienced it, or witnessed it in their day to day: an Anti-Irish bias.

So far, Dave everybody has come across it. That's a fair batting average for a start
(Remember the scale is from 'apathetic' to 'downright hostile')

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Standish Hayes O'Grady
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 04:33 AM

H'are you saying, Sir, that English people can be British, but that all British people are not necessarily English?

Or indeed vice versa?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 04:37 AM

Standish....

You are a prince among men.

Up to the top of the Class, with you, and take a bar of chocolate...

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Grab
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 09:18 AM

Odd, too, that English people don't mind calling themselves 'European'. Grab didn't make that extra obvious step, in annotating his sense of belonging.

Nope, I didn't. I can if you want - like small children write on their addresses: "England, Britain, United Kingdom, Europe, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way, The Universe". Does this make you happy? I thought the point was sufficiently obvious, but perhaps not.

For the record then, so that there is no misunderstanding, I have better things to do with my time than classify myself according to regional/national origin, because my experience is that it's a meaningless exercise. I'll willingly classify myself according to my political, religious and social views, and according to my hobbies and interests. And I'd expect others to do the same as well, because it's *those* things that define your personality. The definition of racism is a belief that national origin inevitably predisposes you to certain character traits (and particularly deficiencies). I don't happen to share that belief.

Incidentally, you might like to note that NI Protestants are *not* British, by the very definition of "Great Britain" comprising England, Scotland and Wales. This may make Ian Paisley and his merry men unhappy, but he's a racist wanker, so fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

The fairly scientific poll we did on the Mudcat posts, showed a marked bias

Interesting. How did you conduct this "fairly scientific poll", and what's your criteria for there being a "marked bias"? If it's on the basis of anti-Irish comments that don't receive a response, I trust you're aware of the "don't feed the trolls" principle?

Epona, I have to disagree with you. So far, all Tír Eoghain and Tiocfaidh have given are assertions and no substance. If they can point us at their reasons for thinking this, we can start to talk sensibly. A straight assertion that "you're all anti-Irish" is bound to come back with the response "no we're not!". If someone wants to prove that there's unconscious discrimination, they need to *prove* that otherwise they won't be taken seriously. As indeed all the English members of Mudcat are currently not taking Tír Eoghain and Tiocfaidh seriously.

So far, Dave everybody has come across it. That's a fair batting average for a start

As far as Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) goes, I can confirm that there *are* people who are anti-Irish, anti-European, anti-American, anti-black, anti-Chinese, anti-Indian/Pakistani, anti-Muslim and anti-Jew. I've met some of them, and it doesn't surprise me that you have too. I've also met some unpleasant French and German people. From the papers and from what's been posted above though, it seems that Ireland also has people with these biases too. Which just goes to show that everywhere has its share of arseholes.

However, you've yet to show that the *majority* share any of those prejudices. Fionn's post above explicitly says that he *doesn't* find this. In what way do your experiences contradict Fionn's?

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 09:33 AM

Graham, I must say that though we disagree on Tiocfaidh's statements/assertions, I do appreciate the fact that you are polite about it. And that was the point I was trying to make. It's difficult for me to read through the insults in order to get to the substance when one becomes defensive. I love a good argument myself, but one that's based on information and not jabs. I like to understand everyone's point of view instead of feeling like I just watched an episode of South Park. :) Again, thank-you Graham.

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 09:36 AM

Great post, Grab.

"As far as Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) goes, I can confirm that there *are* people who are anti-Irish.... Which just goes to show that everywhere has its share of arseholes"

Excellent stuff!

All we really want to know is the rough percentage, now.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: The Curator
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 09:45 AM

Dear Ooh-Aah2
Sorry but we did win ! Don't for a second think the work of all our active service units home and aboard was a waste of time. Do you have any idea just how close your government was to cracking in 1994 ? We will win our islands freedom, and I doubt there will many Ooh Aah's come out of you then ? save if for your football terraces. Regarding your silly remarks about our volunteers blowing up children in Supermarkets. Our units never went out to do that. Yes there were operations which went wrong, but they were few. Unlike the murderous actions of your failed army whilst in my lands. What's it like to belong to an nation that has the highest rate of brutal child murders per head of popular in europe ? I really can see where you are coming from here. Our lads are out of jails which they should never have been in and many made local government and got on well in life, and your soldiers went home with a general service medal and Northern Ireland clasp. Really I can feel for you, but please don't allow your bitterness to eat you like a cancer, by the way check with your government on their latest offer to us, Provisional Irish Republican Army volunteers can become police officers if Sinn Fein accept seats on the policing board. I bet all along your government felt our men should of been in charge of law and order on the streets here, which in fact they were ! So go on forget your sad face and join us in a smile, after all with your government throwing sweets at us every week we have every reason to smile !

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 09:46 AM

Can any of us really answer "are we anti-Irish/?"? I don't think so. We can each answer " Am I* anti-Irish?", though.

I'm not anti-Irish. I am anti-murdering bastard though, regardless of race, colour, religion, and regardless of if they're in 10 Downing St or some flat building nail-bombs



* I meaning the person answering, just in case someone doesn't like this and is determined to misinterpret it to find something objectionable.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 09:51 AM

Pride in my English/British ancestry? Sure. And my Irish, French (although he was a bit of a bastard, by all accounts) and German ancestry. And my wife's English and Russian ancestry.

But what does that have to do with the original question of whether or not contemporary English/British think that they are anti-Irish? The question posed was not whether individuals who are Irish or who have Irish ancestry think that there is now or ever was anti-Irish bias.

If you all choose to slam the Brits rather than help answer the question, than recognize that this is the choice you are making.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 10:02 AM

Sorry Graham, I didn't mean to appear facetious. I'm just glad that the subject seems to be drawing out conversation, eventually.

But as we keep on stressing, ***RACISM*** is not what is under discussion.
What we are looking for is a general concensus on the motion that the average ***Brit*** ... Ahh ahh ahh..., now don't be getting all hot and flustered here..., because in order to prove it, we have to define it...; that the average ***Brit*** is at least as anti-Irish as at least the average Unionist. (The post that started all this....)

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 10:39 AM

Must make a slight correction...

The thread originator, who identifies himself as British, asks "are we anti-Irish?"

So far I have tried to make it quite clear that I do not see myself as British, but English. In particular, Lancastrian and to be even more specific a Mancunian!

I say so far because I have also mentioned that I am also part Polish/Russian. I mention it again here because of the statement So far, Dave everybody has come across it. That's a fair batting average for a start. I too have come across prejudice. In my younger days, before my parents changed our name to something suspiciously made up (Polshaw if you must know!) my name was Polakow. I was mercilessly teased at school. I was hit and spat at by the older kids because of 'What my lot did in the war' (Huh?) Does that make the average Englishman anti-Polish? Nope. A bit more recently during a stay in Antigua a young black lad on the back of a wagon shouted 'White nigger' at me. Does that make the average Antiguan anti- English? Nope. Right up to date with a visit to Listowel during a Sean McCarthy memorial weekend I was treated to various renditions of how the English are all bastards. While walking down the main street I was also greeted by 'You're a fucking Englishman aren't you?'. Does that make the average Irishman anti-Enlish? You've guessed it - Nope! To be fair, btw, the guy with the nice line in opening patter did offer to by us a pint because he was well rat-arsed after celebrating his daughters medical degree pass:-)

Is it prejudice though? Of course it is. It is human nature. It is a defence mechanism against the unknown. We are all guilty of it in some way or another. It is how we deal with it that matters. To turn any of the above situations into the average 'x' is anti 'y' I would need to see more than schoolground bullying or the odd racist remark from a tiny minority that haven't got the brains they were born with.

Unless we begin to see examples of how and where the 'average Brit' (Still not defined btw) is anti-Irish I can only draw the conclusion that the claim is linked to the few bad experiences of our correspondants. The fact that anyone can draw the conclusion that the average attitude amongst 60 million people is represented by the ignorance of a ridiculously small portion is beyond my ken I'm afraid. Unless of course our respected correspondants have seen more prejudice than others? If so, could this be anything to do with the inflamatory or controversial nature of such statements as the average Brit is anti-Irish? Perhaps people who look for fights do see more animosity than those who do not;-)


Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 11:06 AM

Did you ever hear the tale about the little boy who found the bee hive? He got great delight from poking it with a sharp stick, until all chaos broke out and the bees evacuated amidst thunderous drone, hissing, spitting and stinging.

This went on for weeks, everyday he poked the hive and grinned at the result. By now the bees were not only mightily pissed off, but wise to the game. The next time the boy appeared with stick in hand, the bees ignored him and got on with doing what bees do best, being bees.

The boy poked all the harder, his anger at being ignored spurred him on, almost with obsession. The hive collapsed under the assault, and the boy was left looking very sticky as the honey oozed over his head. The bees shook their heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 11:32 AM

Gueast, was his name Padd... - oh no! I nearly gave away my deep anti-Irish prejudice then! That would have kept Tad-fat and Tir Eggbrain going for another 40 posts! Reading their other contributions I gather that like a certain kind of American they don't understand irony very well.

Curator, if I wanted to demonstrate that you conform to a certain crude and innacurate stereotype of Irishmen that I certainly don't share I would quote these two bits of your post, which were worryingly close together:

'Sorry but we did win!'.....', 'We will win our island's freedom...'

Plus, the fact that I regard getting out of Ireland as a victory for us went completely over your head. Bitterness? You forget, Ireland is something I scarcely ever think about except when it pops up in places like this. I think I live my life feeling more bitterness about the war of Jenkin's Ear.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 11:44 AM

Shaking their heads like I am doing now, GUEST? Perhaps they too were laughing? :)

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: The Curator
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 11:47 AM

We will win our Island's freedom from British rule.
We did win the battle against the British army, they are leaving, we aren't.
Sorry Ooh-Aah2
That thick Paddy in me is so hard to hide these days, to be sure, to be sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 11:54 AM

Watch it, Curator - Your ironies showing:-) And you forgot the 'beejabers'.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:00 PM

Dave, this thread just gets better and better...

E

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: The Curator
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:00 PM

Dave good to hear you there, it's the drink talking.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:02 PM

99 is the new 100.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we anti-Irish?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Aug 05 - 12:03 PM

Curator, have you broke into any of those rebel songs yet?

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