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Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs

Cluin 03 Sep 05 - 09:14 PM
Cluin 03 Sep 05 - 09:16 PM
GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell 03 Sep 05 - 09:19 PM
GUEST,Dale 03 Sep 05 - 09:35 PM
Cluin 03 Sep 05 - 09:38 PM
GUEST,Dale 03 Sep 05 - 10:39 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 04 Sep 05 - 01:13 AM
GUEST,Dale 04 Sep 05 - 11:22 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 04 Sep 05 - 11:41 AM
Cluin 04 Sep 05 - 05:26 PM
Ebbie 04 Sep 05 - 07:14 PM
Les B 04 Sep 05 - 08:18 PM
Les B 04 Sep 05 - 08:24 PM
M.Ted 04 Sep 05 - 10:06 PM
dermod in salisbury 05 Sep 05 - 01:55 PM
Cluin 05 Sep 05 - 02:37 PM
Cluin 05 Sep 05 - 02:39 PM
RangerSteve 05 Sep 05 - 10:16 PM
Mark Clark 06 Sep 05 - 01:34 AM
BlueSage 06 Sep 05 - 01:59 AM
GUEST,Guest 06 Sep 05 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,van lingle 06 Sep 05 - 04:50 PM
GUEST 21 Apr 14 - 01:07 PM
GUEST 21 Apr 14 - 01:08 PM
GUEST 21 Apr 14 - 03:25 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 21 Apr 14 - 05:19 PM
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Subject: Old fiddles tunes recycled as songs
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 09:14 PM

Thinking of the melodies of old fiddle tunes being adapted by new(er)lyrics into songs, kind like how Eighth of January became "Battle of New Orleans". Another example might be Red-Haired Boy and "Little Beggarman", though I'm not sure of the genesis there.

There must be loads of other examples.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddles tunes recycled as songs
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 09:16 PM

Whoops... got an extra "s" in that thread title. Sorry. Can Joe or a Clone correct that please?
I won't throw a Shambles about it. Promise    ;)


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Subject: RE: Old fiddles tunes recycled as songs
From: GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 09:19 PM

The tune for Andy M. Stewart's "Take Her in Your Arms" is an old fiddle tune called "The Otter's Holt".


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Subject: RE: Old fiddles tunes recycled as songs
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 09:35 PM

Not quite what you are asking, but Bob Wills originally wrote San Antonio Rose in 1938 as an instrumental with no more than his trademark Ah-has and background chatter. When it proved to be a big hit for him, he added the well known lyrics a couple of years later and had a hit with that, too.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 09:38 PM

That works, Dale.

Thanks Joe/Clone.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 10:39 PM

Midnight On The Water

The old tune Walkin' Georgia Rose was used for Take Me Back To Tulsa, then nearly forgotten until Columbia reissued the original 1931 version by the Pelican Wildcats on The Roots N' Blues Retrospective.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 01:13 AM

Explicate a bit on the "Midnight On the Water" reference, Dale. I'm only familiar with it as a fiddle tune, not as a song. Did the Thomasons write the words as well as the tune, or someone else?


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:22 AM

Well, I started to post what I know about John Croziat and Kate Wolf's version of the song when I remembered ~~ Heck, all I have to do is find where it was discussed HERE earlier. thread.cfm?threadid=61399   Note that there are links to other threads as well. You'll find quite a bit of interest in them.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:41 AM

Thanks, Dale.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 05:26 PM

I know it was an oft-revisited specialty of Tamarack's Alex Sinclair to use old fiddle tunes to apply his lyrics to. He liked to jam as much historical info and person and place names in there as he could as well, often rendering them barely singable, but you've gotta give him A for effort.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 07:14 PM

'Year of Jubilo'. We have always played it as an old timey fiddle tune. I only became aware of lyrics last week when a friend brought me an LP with the lyrics.

Does anyone here sing the song? It's an American Civil War song. I haven't heard it yet because another friend took the record to transfer it to a CD.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: Les B
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 08:18 PM

Ebbie - I sing "Year of Jubilo" or "Kingdom Coming" once in a while.

It was written by Henry Clay Work who also wrote "Grandfather's Clock," "Marching Through Georgia" and many others in the Civil War era.

"Year of Jubilo" has some words - and is sometimes sung in dialect - that might be considered racist, but with a little forethought can be cleaned up and still retain the Civil War flavor.

It should be in the database (I think). And there are numerous other parodies. The tune is said to have been the favorite of American cowboy humorist and actor, Will Rogers.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: Les B
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 08:24 PM

I meant to mention that "Maiden's Prayer" a fiddle tune usually associated with Bob Wills has some words, added, I believe, in the 1950's by singer Ray Price.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 10:06 PM

How do you know it's not "old songs recycled as fiddle tunes"?


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: dermod in salisbury
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 01:55 PM

M.Ted makes the point. More likely many old songs or marching tunes have been speeded up to make a dance. Although, it also must also be said, in the Niel Gow collection of Scottish dance music, bits first published in 1784, many of the dances, most even, are marked to be played slowly. Many of these same tunes we use today, and only ever hear at breakneck speeds.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:37 PM

That's what I alluded to in my first post when I said I wasn't sure of the genesis... which came first? Red-Haired Boy or Little Beggarman?

And I've heard "Listen to the Mockingbird" played a lot lately as a quick fiddle tune by Bluegrass groups. But maybe that's because of Billy Bob Thorton in the movie "The Alamo"


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:39 PM

And Cape Breton fiddlers play strathspeys at a fairly quick tempo because they play them for step dancers, not country dancers.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: RangerSteve
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 10:16 PM

My band does Year of Jubilo as an instrumental under the name "Smokehouse Cellar".

"Maidens Prayer" was actually written by a woman in Poland back in the mid-19th century. I don't know her name.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: Mark Clark
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 01:34 AM

The wonderful old fiddle tune Bonaparte's Retreat was turned into a commercially successful song by Pee Wee King. King changed the rhythm and timing and added the snake dance part that has generally been included by commercial fiddlers since that time.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: BlueSage
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 01:59 AM

John Hartford used fiddle melodies as inspiration for a number of his songs. The "Julia Belle Swain" seems to come from "Over the Waterfall" and "Skipping in the Mississippi Dew" bears a strong resemblance to "Forked Deer". Using old melodies for new songs is a great tradition that, unfortunately, seems to have dropped out of fashion!


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 04:08 PM

To extend the discussion a bit, "Cumberland Mountain Bear Chase", I've only heard Pete Seeger's version, seems to be taken from a traditional French dance - "Bouree a Six".


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 04:50 PM

Mike Cross did Whiskey 'fore Breakfast with some very funny lyrics. I think it started as a tune first.


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 14 - 01:07 PM

Does anyone also remember the Dashing White Sergeant dance which was a fiddle tune from years and years ago?


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 14 - 01:08 PM

That song has always been performed in my repertoire when I play live :)


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 14 - 03:25 PM

The Dashing White Sergeant started out as a (dreadful) song from about 1816. It was a couple of generations before it was turned into a fiddle tune. I have a vague recollection of hearing words to it once, but they are never sung in Scotland these days, and the original words are completely forgotten (thank god).


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Subject: RE: Old fiddle tunes recycled as songs
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 21 Apr 14 - 05:19 PM

That was me. My cookie got eaten.


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