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Lyr Req: '...had a pancake stuck to his bum'

Marooned 09 Sep 05 - 10:10 AM
rhyzla 09 Sep 05 - 10:21 AM
Marooned 09 Sep 05 - 11:25 AM
Tam the man 09 Sep 05 - 11:28 AM
MMario 09 Sep 05 - 11:36 AM
Marooned 09 Sep 05 - 11:39 AM
Myrtle 09 Sep 05 - 01:17 PM
Cluin 09 Sep 05 - 04:24 PM
Fergie 09 Sep 05 - 08:56 PM
Cluin 10 Sep 05 - 12:20 AM
GUEST,Boab 10 Sep 05 - 02:47 AM
Big Al Whittle 10 Sep 05 - 06:24 AM
Tam the man 10 Sep 05 - 06:41 AM
Cluin 10 Sep 05 - 11:46 AM
The Fooles Troupe 10 Sep 05 - 07:12 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Sep 05 - 08:09 PM
The Fooles Troupe 11 Sep 05 - 08:37 PM
Jim Dixon 12 Sep 05 - 11:20 PM
Cluin 13 Sep 05 - 12:28 AM
Seamus Kennedy 14 Sep 05 - 12:12 AM
JohnB 14 Sep 05 - 10:53 AM
GUEST,Geoff the Duck 14 Sep 05 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,Three Little Pigs 16 Sep 05 - 01:55 PM
The Fooles Troupe 16 Sep 05 - 07:58 PM
GUEST,GUEST; Sadhbhy 31 Jul 09 - 06:37 PM
Azizi 01 Sep 09 - 01:05 AM
Azizi 01 Sep 09 - 01:31 AM
Seamus Kennedy 01 Sep 09 - 02:36 AM
Azizi 01 Sep 09 - 10:16 AM
Azizi 01 Sep 09 - 10:21 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 01 Sep 09 - 10:45 AM
GUEST 01 Sep 09 - 05:22 PM
Azizi 01 Sep 09 - 05:41 PM
Azizi 02 Sep 09 - 06:48 PM
GUEST 24 Sep 11 - 08:36 PM
GUEST,KD 23 Jun 16 - 09:35 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Jun 16 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,padgett 23 Jun 16 - 03:31 PM
GUEST,padgett 23 Jun 16 - 03:34 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Marooned
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 10:10 AM

Yes, I know this sounds bizarre. In any case, one of our local singers apparently used to sing a song about a pig with a pancake on his bum but he can't remember the lyrics. I'm trying to help him out. Anyone have ANY clues on this one?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: rhyzla
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 10:21 AM

is it related to:

Not last night but the night before,
3 little pigs came knocking at the door,
the first had a trumpet, the second had a drum,
and third had a pancake stuck to it's bum

Not sure of source - any else?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Marooned
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 11:25 AM

My goodness, that could be it! Anyone else have any more info?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Tam the man
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 11:28 AM

I remember a wee thing that went

not last night but the night before
three wee witches came to the door
the first had a trumpet, the second had a drum,
and third had a pancake stuck to it's bum


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: MMario
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 11:36 AM

it's also out on the web with "tomcats" And sometimes (this is a bit weird) there are only *two* but still

"the first had a trumpet, the second had a drum, and the last had a pancake stuck to it's bum"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Marooned
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 11:39 AM

Does anyone have an entire song though, not just this particular fragment of rhyme?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Myrtle
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 01:17 PM

This is the version I know, (and sing!):

Early in the morning
Early in the morning
Early in the morning
Before the break of day.

You know last night,
You know the night before,
Three little tomcats came knocking at the door.
The first had a fiddle and the second had a drum
And the third had a pancake stuck to his bum.

Early in the morning etc

You know our lass
Our Marianne,
Saw her down the street with a nice young man,
Laced up boots, and a feather in her cap,
Thats the way she gets a chap.

Early in the morning etc.

You know old Stan,
The dirty old man,
He washed his face in a frying pan.
He combed his hair with a donkey's tail,
And scratched his belly with his big toe nail.

Early in the morning etc.

Me and wife,
And family o' three,
We went to Reighton by the sea,
We watched clog dancers and listened to the band,
And then we went on Reighton sand,

And we kept eatin' parkin',
We kept eatin' parkin',
We kept eatin' parkin',
Thats why we are so brown............this last is sung to the same tune as the Early in the morning chorus.

I have this version on a very old 'Deep Lancashire' cassette, tho its not on the later cd for some reason.
Regards, Myrtle.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 04:24 PM

Everytime I think some one is joking with one of these lyric requests, it turns out to be a real song.

(and some Mudcatter out there has the lyrics)

Ah, well...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Fergie
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 08:56 PM

From a dim and distant childhood (54 years ago) comes a plaintiff memory of a skipping rhyme we used to sing in Dublin. It goes as follows;

There was a little man and he had a little gun,
and up the mountain he did run
with a bellyful of fat and an old tall hat
and a pancake tied to his bum, bum, bum.

3, 6, 9, the goose drank wine
the monkey chewed tabacco on the streetcar line
the line broke the money got choked
and they all went to heaven in a little row boat

It must be something that came from America, because in Ireland we had/have no streetcars (not even one called Desire).
Fergus


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 12:20 AM

Do you call `em pancakes there? That's the word we use here, but I've also heard hotcakes and flapjacks.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 02:47 AM

My kids--and all their cousins---used to clamour for a version I developed from the lyrics learned in my own childhood. I had it interspersed with an Irish chorus, and [naturally!] in the Scots idiom...
No last nicht but the nicht afore'
Weya, weeya waya,
Three wee witches cam' tae ma door
Doon by the river Saya.
Yin wi' a fiddle, an' yin wi' a drum,
Weeya weeya waya
An' yin wi' a pancake stuck tae her bum--
Doon by the river Saya!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 06:24 AM

sticking a pancake to a pigs bum for michaelmas - we must try not to lose these old traditions


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Tam the man
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 06:41 AM

Aye that's it, the one I remember is.

No last nicht but the nicht afore'
Three wee witches cam' tae ma door
yin wi' a fiddle, an' yin wi' a drum,
An' yin wi' a pancake stuck tae her bum

Tam frae Scotland


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 11:46 AM

Is the purpose of this procedure just to make sure you always have a quick snack handy?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 07:12 PM

Obviously some people don't have cushions on their chairs.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 08:09 PM

old Lincolnshire saying - very well known from Dogdyke, and even as far as Frampton Marsh

if you have enemies, and naught can affect 'em
Then stick a large pancake on a pig's rectum
then on Michalmas Fair day, all these bastards you ax
round to a light buffet of savoury snax


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 08:37 PM

weelittledrummer

you may have founde the sauce, er source...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 11:20 PM

If you search with Google for "a pancake stuck to his bum" (in quotes) you get 66 hits. If you search for "a pancake stuck to * bum" – to allow for "her" and "its" – you get 90 hits. I didn't have the patience to read more than a few of them, but a suitably motivated researcher might find lots more variations.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 12:28 AM

I've heard of Pig in a Blanket, but...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 12:12 AM

The version we did in Belfast as kids was:

Mind last night?
Well, the night before,
Three wee monkeys came to our hall door.
One had a fiddle and one had a drum,
And one had a pancake stuck tohis bum.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: JohnB
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 10:53 AM

Further up in the post from Myrtle, her song is the one I know, with Tom Cat's, it is performed by the Oldham Tinkers. The word Reighton, is the colloquial pronunciation of the town of "Royton" if you have ever been there, you probably missed Royton Sands, it is about 20ft of sand by a bend in the river.
JohnB.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 01:38 PM

CLOSE - BUT NO CIGAR...!
Quack!!!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: GUEST,Three Little Pigs
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 01:55 PM

Knock, knock, knock.
Screech Screech.
Bang Bang Tap.
Ouch - my bum!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 07:58 PM

You've finally found the title?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: GUEST,GUEST; Sadhbhy
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 06:37 PM

It was in a book called 'The Bad Mothers Handbook'


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:05 AM

I've also wondered what the source was for the "pancake on his bum" lines in those British children's rhymes. Thanks to weelittledrummer's 10 Sep 05 - 08:09 PM post, I think that mystery is solved.

**

I've not found any online information yet about this custom.

This page includes excerpts from a number of books, newspapers, or journal articles related to the subject of Michaelmas:
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:045fJ_USR5MJ:www.highbeam.com/doc/1O49-MichaelmasDay.html+pancakes+and+michaelmas&cd=2&hl=en

Here are several excerpts from that page-none of which appear to refer to "pigs with pancake on their bum".

"Michaelmas Day is the feast of St Michael the Archangel. On these days, rents were due and servants or hands were hired"...

**

"St Michael the Archangel, 29 September, is one of the Quarter Days , a date for the payment of rents and the beginning...landlords. It was said that 'if you eat goose on Michaelmas Day you will never lack money all year'. "

**

..."After Michaelmas blackberries were unfit for food because on Michaelmas Day the devil dragged his tail over them"...

**

"The real reason why blackberries should not be picked after Old Michaelmas Day, October 11 (Letters, September 7) was that Satan fell from heaven into a blackberry bush, and he spat on it to poison it"

**

Referring to the custom of eating pancakes on Shrove Tuesday): "If you eat pancakes on 'Goody Tuesday' (Shrove Tuesday), and grey peas on Ash Wednesday, you will have money in your purse all the year".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:31 AM

I'm not inclined at this time to look for more information about "pancake on his bum"

But I want to share that a perhaps unrelated line in some children's rhymes is "pimple on his rum tum tum".

Here's an example of a rhyme/song that includes that line:

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Fliss - PM
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:17 PM

This is what we used to chant in the playground in the 1950's in Shropshire.

Chin Chin Chinaman bought a paper doll
He washed it and dressed it and then it caught a cold
He sent for the doctor
The doctor couldnt come
Because he had a pimple on his rum tum tum.

thread.cfm?threadid=71726&messages=52#1229116

The last line of this rhyme is also given as "Because he had a pimple on his bum bum bum".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Steve Gardham - PM
Date: 05 May 08 - 06:42 PM

Similar version to one posted above.
Hull 1950s street rhyme

Chinky Chinky Chinaman bought a penny doll,
Washed it, dressed it, called it Pretty Poll,
Sent for the doctor, doctor couldn't come,
Because he had a pimple on his bum, bum, bum.

-snip-

Also see this very interesting Wikipedia page about the history of taunts against the Chinese in the USA and elsewhere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Andrew_Robertson/names


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 02:36 AM

Azizi - it's quite simple; kids like naughty words and images - boogers, snot, fart, poop, shit, caca, etc.

'Bum' is the British/Irish equivalent of 'buttocks' or 'ass'.

Hence the attraction for kids.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 10:16 AM

Hello, Seamus.

I understand from your post that you think that the references to "pancake on the bum" in rhymes such as

"Not last night but the night before,
3 little pigs came knocking at the door,
the first had a trumpet, the second had a drum,
and third had a pancake stuck to it's bum."

may be just children having fun, using naughty words or evoking risque images.

That may be true-in part. However, I believe that certain references and verses in some children's playground rhymes do mean something, even though that meaning is usually lost because of time and because of folk etymology "corruption".

Furthermore, I believe that sometimes references and verses in children's playground rhymes contain historical tidbits about long ago customs. Children's playground rhymes may also contain social commentary about people, places, and things-although children chanting those rhymes may not recognize or understand those references, particularly if those rhymes have been passed down from generation to generation.

I read weelittledrummer's 10 Sep 05 - 08:09 PM post about an "old Lincolnshire saying - very well known from Dogdyke, and even as far as Frampton Marsh" about sticking a large pancake on a pig's butt and inviting your enemies to dine off of it at Michaelmas. Presumably, if your enemies ate a pig prepared that way on that particular holy day, there would suffer dire consequences.

I certainly would love to know more about that British superstition. But I now think that it's only part of the back story of that "pancake on the bum" line.

My theory is that "pancake on his bum" refers to a medicinal plaster that was put on a person's butt-probably because he or she had a boil. That might explain the line in this culturally insensitive rhyme:

Chinky Chinky Chinaman bought a penny doll,
Washed it, dressed it, called it Pretty Poll,
Sent for the doctor, doctor couldn't come,
Because he had a pimple on his bum, bum, bum.

-snip-

Other folk rhymes include a line about a person having a pimple on his or her belly. See, for example, this excerpt from a jump rope (skipping) rhyme:

Old Mother Kelly
Had pimple on her belly.
Doctor cut it off
Made it into jelly.

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:acUPGtMqzAoJ:www.mudcat.org/jumprope/jumprope_display_all.cfm+pimple+on+belly+%22mudcat%22&c

**
The "pancake on the bum" line appears rather frequently, especially in the "Not Last Night But The Night Before" family of rhymes. However, here's a rhyme reference to pancake being "worn" on another part of a person's body:

Subject: RE: Aunty Mary Had a Canary - where?
From: burl
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 03:02 PM

Growing up in Nottingham through the 1930s and 40s I learned from my parents,

They also sang,

'I wish I was a bobby,
Dressed in bobby's clothes.
With a big top hat, and a bellyful of fat,
And a pancake on my nose'.

thread.cfm?threadid=11873

-snip-

I wonder if anyone else has reached this conclusion that a "pancake on the bum" refers to a "medicinal plaster". By "medicinal plaster" I mean "An external application of a consistency harder than ointment, prepared for use by spreading it on linen, leather, silk, or other material. It is adhesive at the ordinary temperature of the body, and is used, according to its composition, to produce a medicinal effect, to bind parts together, etc.; as, a porous plaster; sticking plaster."

http://ardictionary.com/Plaster/7219

-snip-

In my next post to this thread, I'll share an excerpt from an online article I found that provides a description of a use of medicinal plasters.


-Azizi Powell


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 10:21 AM

Here's an excerpt from an online article about medicinal plasters:


Liniments, Rubbing Salves And Plasters

( Originally Published 1940 )

..."No preparation applied to the skin will reach the bronchial tubes or cure a cold or bronchitis. But an aching sensation in the chest which often accompanies a "common cold" or grippe, may be relieved by rubbing on an ointment or liniment, provided the skin is not too sensitive. Chest pain, however, is also a symptom of lung infections, such as pneumonia, and so medical care is imperative if such pain is associated with fever. If a counterirritant is desired, a mustard poultice, frequently prescribed by physicians, will give the greatest satisfaction. It is prepared as follows: Mix dry mustard and wheat flour in the proper proportions and add sufficient lukewarm water to form a smooth paste just thin enough to spread. Hot water will destroy the irritant action of the mustard, so be sure the water is only lukewarm. The proportions of mustard and flour vary according to the age of the patient. For an adult, use one part of mustard to two parts of flour; for a child use one to three, and for an infant, one to four. The amounts used will depend on the extent of the area to be covered.

Spread the paste on one end of an oblong double thickness of old clean linen or cotton cloth. Turn in the edges to prevent the escape of the paste and fold the free end of the cloth over the top. Place the poultice on a hot water bottle or radiator to take the chill off, and cover it with a towel.

Before applying the plaster, spread a thin layer of vaseline or olive oil on the skin as a protection from burns. Always bear in mind that burns caused by mustard are very painful and slow to heal.
The duration of the application varies. When the skin is well reddened the desired effect has been obtained. This usually takes from 10 to 20 minutes. Examine the skin frequently after the plaster has been on for five minutes.

The same poultice may be applied two or three times daily if necessary. Always warm it up a little before each application.
Mustard plasters may be bought ready-made. They are applied to the chest front and back for about 20 minutes each. Sensitive skins usually cannot tolerate an application of that length"...

http://www.oldandsold.com/articles35/health-and-medicine-10.shtml


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 10:45 AM

From a song sung by Mike Harding on a cassette album (that's how long ago)

Last night or the night before,
Three big pussies came knocking at the door,
One had a fiddle, another had a drum,
The third had a pancake stuck to it's bum

Earlye in the morning,
Earlye in the morning,
Earlye in the morning,
Before the break of day

A little lad whose name was Bob,
Minded a horse outside a pub,
The horse did a widdle and the man came out,
Little Bob began to shout

Your horse won't go now Mister,
Your horse won't go now Mister,
Your horse won't go now Mister,
'Cos the petrol's all run away.

Me and the wife and the Mother-in-Law,
Went for a walk on Blackpool shore,
The Mother-in-Law fell off the pier,
The wife she shouted in me ear,

Don't stand and watch her drownin',
Don't stand and watch her drownin',
Don't stand and watch her drownin',
I said "Right! I'll shut me eyes.

I courted a lass whose name was May,
And gave her a watch on her birthday,
She opened it up, then gave me a stare,
There was nought inside, no doin's there,

I said "You needn't worry",
I said "You needn't worry",
I said "You needn't worry",
"I'm givin' you the works tonight".

There may have been one more verse.

It should be available still in Mike Harding's archive. I believe the album title was "Old four-eyes is back".

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 05:22 PM

Azizi,

As regards weelittledrummer's 10 Sep 05 - 08:09 PM post about an "old Lincolnshire saying - very well known from Dogdyke, and even as far as Frampton Marsh" (a distance of less than 20 miles, incidentally), I would be extremely surprised if the old saying even dates as far back as 8:00 PM on 10 Sep 05.

It's just British humour: the tongue is very firmly in the cheek.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 05:41 PM

Aha! I wondered if my leg was being pulled (as we say in my neck of the woods. I suppose if I had known where old Lincolnshire, Dogdyke, and Frampton Marsh were, that might have given me a clue that this was tongue in cheek, but suffice it to say I don't know beans about English geography.

Oh well. I'll take my punishment of twenty lashes with a wet noodle, but hold the pigs feet because I don't pork.

My thanks to you Guest Sep 09 - 05:22 PM for letting me know that that was a joke. At least that post led to my finding out and sharing what I consider to be some interesting information. For instance, before reading that post, I didn't know anything about the Michaelmas. And I didn't know that there was any connection between Satan and blackberries. So all's well that ends well (You can substitute a more appropriate saying).

**

BTW, I started a thread on Thomas Talley's Negro Folk Rhymes, and still intend to post some lyrics from that collection that mention plasters. I'll post a hyperlink to that post of posts when I write it or them.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 06:48 PM

As promised, here are two examples that mention wearing medicinal plaster from late 19th century or earlier African American culture, They may not have anything to do with a "pig with a pancake on his bum". But then again they might.

Subject: RE: Negro Folk Rhymes (Thomas W. Talley)
From: Azizi - PM
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 06:44 PM

PLASTER

Chilluns:
Mammy an' daddy had a hoss,
Dey want a liddle bigger,
Dey sticked a plaster on his back
An' drawed a liddle N****r.

Den:
Mammy an' daddy had a dog.
His tail was short an' chunky,
Dey slipped a plaster 'round dat tail.
An' drawed it lak de monkey.

Well:
Mammy an' daddy's dead an' gone.
Did you ever hear dir stiry?
Dey sticked some plasters on deir heels,
An' drawed 'em up to Glory!

pages 60-61

**

A FINE PLASTER
W'en it's sheep skin an' beeswax.
It sho' a mighty fine plaster.
De mo' you tries to pull it off,
Se mo' it sticks de faster.

page. 124

[Both of these examples are from the 1968 Kennikat edition of Thomas W. Talley's Negro Folk Rhymes]


thread.cfm?threadid=123317&messages=44#2715001


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 08:36 PM

not last night but the night before three black tom cats came knocking on my door.
One had a fiddle, one had a drum the other had a pancake stuck to his bum.
I went down stairs to let them in , they hit me on the head with a rolling pin.
I went up stair to go to bed , fell in the ...............


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: '...had a pancake stuck to his bum'
From: GUEST,KD
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 09:35 AM

anyone know the choards for this?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: '...had a pancake stuck to his bum'
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 01:19 PM

I don't. But I do know how to spell 'chords'. 😉


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: '...had a pancake stuck to his bum'
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 03:31 PM

Don T's posting above of a Mike Harding song ~ you can probably guess the tunes from the words without reference to MHs words

Ray


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: '...had a pancake stuck to his bum'
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 03:34 PM

last word s/b recording

Ray


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