Lyr ADD: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Apr 12 - 09:24 PM

Sandy-

Here's a link to the poem "High Tide at 4 AM" by marine engineer William McFee that I've fitted to the tune "Make and Break Harbour": click here for MP3 sample!

I think it's a keeper.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 29 Apr 12 - 08:02 PM

Great! Good Luck !

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Apr 12 - 10:11 AM

E-mail sent off to Stan Rogers literary representative to secure permission to re-use tune.

Mudcat works its wonders again.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 10:19 AM

Sandy-

Ah, I see you provided an e-mail address in the link above. More better!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 10:12 AM

Thanks, Sandy. I'll send him a PM and if by chance he notices it I may get some info.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 10:08 AM

Charley, I believe the tune to be a Stan composition, but I am not certain. Sometimes Mudcatter Paul Mills (Curley Boy Stubbs) should be able to tell you for sure.
Curley Boy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 09:01 AM

Sandy-

That is a beautifully done video. I'm not surprised. Canadians do such a great job when it comes to tributes.

So, I'm still waiting for clues about the tune for "Make & Break Harbour"? I suppose I can try and contact Valerie again but last time there was no response from her or her agent.

I don't want to "pirate" a Stan Rogers tune. If anyone can provide me via PM an up to date e-mail address, I would really appreciate it.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 07:42 AM

We certainly do.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Beer
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 12:54 AM

I first heard this song I believe it was 1980 and have been singing it ever since. Thank you Stan. We still miss you.
adrien

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 12:45 AM

Charley,
If you watch this video it will give you some insight. The song is all about the inshore fishermen of Nova Scotia's Chedabucto Bay where Stan's roots lay.
One Warm Line

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 12:21 PM

Kendall et al-

"I hesitate to revive this somewhat fractious thread..."

I'd really like to know more about the origin of the tune, especially as I'd like to use it as the musical setting for a vintage poem.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 08:42 AM

There are so many people who think in absolutes; black or whit, right or wrong, nothing in between, unable to say, I have a different opinion, and choose rather to say "You are wrong". I have no patience with that kind of limited thinking.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 07:57 AM

I hesitate to revive this somewhat fractious thread but I'm curious about the origin of the tune. Some tunes used by Stan appear adapted from traditional sources, i.e., "Watching the Apples Grow" appears inspired by "Cherokee Shuffle." Is "Make an' Break Harbour" similarly adapted?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: number 6
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 08:11 PM

Exactly gnu ... get a map, take a look, specifically at Cape Breton. You'll see lots of those "lumpy things up there that stick out into the Atlantic such as Nova Scotia." might even be surprised to see a west cost .... geeesh !!

sIx

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: nutty
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 01:52 PM

There are times of the year when you can see the sun set over the sea at Whitby - north-EAST coast of the UK, so I presume it is possible that it happens in other parts of the world.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 01:43 PM

Portmahomack a village on the east coast not too far away from me, which faces due west .
Giok

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 01:13 PM

Good point, Gnu. A chart would be even better. LOL

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: gnu
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 12:28 PM

Re GUEST 17 Sep 05 - 07:56 AM....

I believe Stan spent a wee bit of time on the Western Shore of Nova Scotia... a map might help.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 12:04 PM

Case in point, the above post

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 11:48 AM

yawn

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 10:40 AM

"somebody seeing 'mistakes' they were looking for and NOT seeing anything else"

My point exactly!

" Rogers may not have always been such a nice guy"
I don't care what kind of guy he was... This isn't (Or shouldn't have been) a thread about him... I wasn't the one who 'sniped' (Not that I feel any need to justify my actions)

This thread would be worth a LOT more if it was deleted back to the 2nd post. (Not that I expect it to happen...)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 09:44 AM

But in this case, I don't think it was poetic license. I think it was somebody seeing 'mistakes' they were looking for and NOT seeing anything else.

It's Canada. They have all these lumpy things up there that stick out into the Atlantic such as Nova Scotia. Then there's the first post with lyrics that states: The note with the dots I have says "I believe the first song for the Inshore Fishermen".

Honestly, somebody just asked for the damned words. The horizon could be over the water facing west, or it could be looking inland.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 09:25 AM

Poetic license is very important in poetry. Someone once said that a computer could write a poem about the moon, but it wouldn't be very romantic.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 08:40 AM

Here's a free clue, guest - it was sunset on the east coast.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 07:56 AM

Not to put too fine a point on it, but that whole first line makes no sense.

One must assume that he is writing about the east coast, so, a western air would have to be coming OFF the land. So, how can it be also blowing FROM the crimson horizon?

Let's face it, Stan was not a sailor.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 01:54 AM

With the exception of most of your own postings, CH, there have been some very interesting and informative postings to this thread. I read your request; then I read this thread. There are plenty of good postings after the first two. Sounds to me as though you are hero-worshipping or something and don't like hearing that Rogers may not have always been such a nice guy. No one has said he sucked at singing and songwriting, so maybe you could focus on that instead and cease with the sniping.

I sure wish Rick was here to put in his 2 cents.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 10:11 PM

I doubt he's got anything to do with it

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: number 6
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 09:51 PM

Jeeeezuz H. !!

sIx

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 05:57 PM

That might be an attempt to get the 'powers' here to clean it up...

:-P

It might also be that someone did it first, and I'm just maarking MY territory over his...

Heh

Could just be poking the weak to hear 'em whimper...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: number 6
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 05:23 PM

Clinton .... ya have to admit, you have dumped a lot crap onto to this thread.

sIx

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 05:12 PM

Yes... yes it does...

Thanks, Captain Obvious...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 04:20 PM

disconnected has two n's

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 04:01 PM

Wow... you really are disconected from reality aren't you...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 03:54 PM

Touched a nerve with the little Clinton Hammond I see. Why don't you go take a ride on your yellow and red play school tractor and find some more doggy poo to dump on other threads. It might divert your attention and make you feel happy again.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 03:19 PM

Yup... that's a pansy beatle.... Specifically, of the WimpGuest variety... Notice how he's distinctive in his inability to develope his own cry, and is forced to rely on his mincry... his simplified versions of the calls of more intelligent and articualte species... Unless he finds another of his ilk, the same low-brow, the same lack of inventiveness, he'll spend another year without a mate...

It's probably better that way

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 02:48 PM

Yeah there is something buzzing in here. It's not a pansy-beatle, it's little Clinton Hammond busy spreading dogshit around.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 01:58 PM

Is there a buzzing noise or something in here? Sounds like the wings of a pansy-beatle...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 09:44 AM

Clinton you piled most of the dogshit onto this forum!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 09:27 AM

Total dog shit. Yup, you should know.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 09:26 AM

Yawn

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 11:41 PM

"People interested in the song probably don't want to have to wade through the muck."

This is why I suggested elsewhere that perhaps the Clones might want to edit this thread and delete all but the 1st and 2nd post... Cause pretty much everything after that is a total pile of dogshit...

But seeing as they obviously don't want to be seen to take an active, interested role in the quality of (Or the apperance of quality at least) Mudcat, nothing has (or will) happened....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,Gloucesterman
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 09:13 PM

I've sung this song for years and also have the song book that presumably Stan proof read. I offer these corrections to the most recent posting of lyrics:

Light western airs (as was stated)

When the cod went so cheap but so plenty,

And the ones left behing, old, and tired, and blind. (Scans better too.)


I do think that the parties having at eachother in this thread might well consider that they are having issues about bullying while they actually bully eachother. Consider taking it to another thread, or, better yet, get over it. People interested in the song probably don't want to have to wade through the muck.
No body asked, just my opinion.
Thanks!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 06:26 PM

I agree. Even through the posting I have above from Stan's offical site has it as bright I belive it's "light" to. Bright makes no sense at all & "light" does. A light wind could even be a 'catspaw'.
Barry

Subject: Lyr Add: MAKE AND BREAK HARBOUR (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 03:45 PM

MAKE AND BREAK HARBOUR
(Stan Rogers)

How still lies the bay in the light western airs
Which blow from the crimson horizon.
Once more we tack home with a dry empty hold,
Saving gas with the breezes so fair.
She's a kindly Cape Islander, old, but still sound
But so lost in the long liner's shadow.
Make and break, and make do, but the fish are so few
That she won't be replaced should she founder.

It's so hard not to think of before the big war
When the cod were so cheap and so plenty.
Foreign trawlers go by now with long-seeing eyes,
Taking all, where we seldom take any;
And so the young folk don't stay with the fisherman's way.
Long ago, they all moved to the cities,
And the ones left behind, old, tired, and blind
Can't work for "a pound or a penny".

CHORUS: In Make and Break Harbour the boats are so few,
Too many are pulled up and rotten.
Most houses stand empty. Old nets hung to dry
Are blown away, lost and forgotten.

I can see the big draggers have stirred up the bay
Leaving lobster traps smashed on the bottom.
Can they think it don't pay to respect the old ways
That Make and Break men have not forgotten?
For we still keep our time to the turn of the tide,
And this boat that I built with my father
Still lifts to the sky! The one-lunger and I
Still talk like old friends on the water.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 11:04 AM

Is that the sound and the fury I hear?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 05:21 PM

I didn't know the truth was adjustable according to whether you are alive or dead. The things one can learn here.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 02:11 PM

I hope someone treats you the same when you're dead...

The only boor here is you

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 06:51 AM

I have good friends all over New Brunswick and they are among the most decent, friendly, warm talented people I have ever met.
I worked with officers of the Canadian dept. of Fisheries and forestry back when I was in Federal law enforcement, and I found them to be the same. Not a boor in the bunch.
Stan was one of a kind; I'm sure he would agree to that!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 12:07 AM

"some people might have been offended"

Every single thing really worth doing is going to be offensive to some wanker or other...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: number 6
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 09:46 PM

To understand Stan Rogers personality is to undestand where he came from.

He was born and raised in a tough blue collar steel town (Hamilton Ontario) to parents that arrived there from the Canadian Maritimes to find a basic living. Maritimers are people that say it like it is, yes some can be boorish, but overall they are they are the most humane, generous people in Canada. The Maritimes are also the poorist region in Canada, and even so much more in the times of Stan's parents. Upper Canada (Ontario) was not so warm in welcoming Maritimers to their province. So growing up in a harsh, hard town in a family that has moved to a region were they are are looked town upon would produce a personality such as Stan's. The boorishness, and the the humane generosity that Stan possessed. It would also serve him with a vision of what the world is like ... the hardness of it and the beauty of it.

As I mentioned before ... Stan would certainly not disagree with what Kendall said, and he certainly would not want to be remembered strictly as a saint ... he would want to be remembered for what he was.

sIx

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 05:29 PM

Hey, Clinton, you're still floundering around. Here, catch this anchor and I'll haul you back in!

Stan Rogers spent a number of weekends at our collective house in Lansing, Michigan, while he was there for a concert at the 10 Pound Fiddle and I can certainly see how some people might have been offended by what he said in casual conversation, or in spirited debate. He was a big lug too. But he also was a very generous man, and helped many unknown singers get a start. And he and Garnet became very mellow after we gave them a glass or two of absolute alcohol!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 05:19 PM

Sure, if you enjoy being disliked and even shunned like an anti social brat.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 03:39 PM

You are what you think... and what you do... and how you express yourself... Maybe not compeletely.... but that is at least a part of who you are...

My momma always said, "Wanker is as wanker does...."

"so many poeple lack objectivity"
Like that... Where is it written that says people NEED objectivity?!?!?! Objectivity is for court judges and scientists... I only experience what I do because my own SUBJECTIVE senses tell me about the world around me... Own your space in the world... stand up and shout it from the roof tops... Ya know... as if you HAD a pair...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 08:14 AM

Amen. I've known many people who are unable to separate who you are from what you think.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 06:06 AM

It is a shame that so many poeple lack objectivity, when it comes to certain subjects, like Irish Nationalism,Republicans or Democrats, and their personal heroes or heroines. However to use it as an excuse to insult someone with who's opinion you disagree is the height of immaturity. It also beggars belief that a person who posts some of the most boorish posts on this forum, should accuse someone else of that act.
Giok.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: number 6
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 11:03 PM

Exactly Kendall "as a musician and songwriter" and only that.

sIx

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 04:40 PM

As a musician and song writer, yes. He certainly does.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: number 6
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 04:00 PM

Kendall is stating his point (nothing wrong with that) ... and what I have heard of Stan, Kendall's view of his character's seems to say it like it was ... and even Stan would probably agree with it.

Stan Rogers was a land lubber from Hamilton Ontario and he was an Upper Canadian all his life, never having lived in the maritimes. His parents were from Nova Scotia.

All this being said ... Stan was one hell of a songwriter who deserves the accolades given to him.

sIx

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 11:51 PM

That's very interesting FT!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:20 PM

"Funny how people always say that about the first version they hear"

It's called 'The Little Yellow Baby Duck Syndrome' as christened years ago in Byte magazine, talking about text editors. Like the baby duck you get imprinted on the first thing you see - 'Mummy!'

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Beer
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 08:25 PM

If you (anyone) still have a one lunger/make and break in good working order they are worth a fortune to a collector.
Beer
Oh! and Make and Break Harbour is a great great song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 07:48 PM

I am sorry if this thread has become a pissing match. I often do not agree with Kendall, but I respect his knowledge and expertise, and I would say the same for Clinton. I have learned a great deal from the Mudcat forum and from time to time I hope to help others as well. While this song is well known, terms such as "Make&Break" and "one lungers" may be foreign to many. Perhaps the thread will help some understand some of Stan's perspective. Stan wrote this song for people that he knew and not for a wider audience. I try to clarify some of the terms used and it is readily apparent that Kendall understands. Make and Break Harbour does not exist as any single place. It is any harbour that has been devistated by changes in the fishery and the term can be applied to many places in Maritime Canada and I am sure, New England as well. All of these old fishermen used Make & Break engines which were to the fishing boat what the Model T was to the car.
As for Stan's personal traits we all have some that are high and some a bit lower. That is being human. Memory often keeps the higher ones and discards the lower, and perhaps that is how it should be.
             Sandy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 07:13 PM

Erm...actually I was asking about the Stan that started the thread...I did know about Stan Rogers....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 06:49 PM

I can't imagine anyone finding fault with my last post. Oh, well.

Going back over the thread, I realize that I was grumpy as Jeri pointed out, and I also hijacked the thread. For that part, I do apologize.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:27 PM

Just gotta clutter this thread to death don't ya, ken-doll....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:26 PM

If I might be allowed to venture another opinion...I think the Wreck of the Jeannie C was one of his best.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:24 PM

And one more....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:23 PM

Ok, ok, he was a great guy, everybody loved him, Mr. Personality himself who would never tell a married woman in the presense of her husband that she had the nicest ass in the place. Happy now?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:21 PM

Another post worth deleting....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:19 PM

I'm the first to admit that my opinion is no better than anyone else's.
However, none of you were there. I was. He didn't like me? He never got to know me, I don't hang out with people who insult women in public for absolutly no reason.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:37 PM

Who's making a 'god' out of anyone?

" Just don't try to invalidate my personal opinion."
Your personal opinion isn't worth a tinkers fart to anyone but you kendall... just like everyone elses....

If I give you a quarter, could you over-react more?

Maybe we could have a clone delete all the posts in this thread after 09 Sep 05 - 02:42 PM...   That way it's still a decent thread, and not this cluster f#ck...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,other guest
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:19 PM

Maybe, he JUST DIDN'T LIKE YOU, Kendall.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:18 PM

You may want to see the thread on Santa Cruz guitars.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:14 PM

Guest, you may have noticed that I am not the only one who saw him as a bully and a bore, so why single me out?
This was not a brief first impression, I spent a weekend with him and I saw him as a bully and a boor. If you don't like it, that's tough but don't tell me what I saw, I was there.

Now, I also said that in my opinion, he was one of the great song writers of our time. Do you have a problem with that too?

Clinton, I wouldn't say too much about negative posts if I were you.
I honor Stan as a great writer and performer, but if you need to make a god out of a mere human, go ahead. Just don't try to invalidate my personal opinion.You have no right.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:00 PM

This site will tell you all about the Make & Break one-lunger.
Sorry,I have no luck with clickies so please cut and paste to your browser.
    http://www.oldmarineengine.com/history/Acadia/Acadia.htm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:28 PM

"Kendall how about keeping your negativity to yourself"
But then he'd have nothing to post at all...
Oh....
Right....


"some of his lyrics just don't scan"
One must remember... Stan was writing poetry... not documentary...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:00 PM

Kendall seems to have made a judgement based on a first impression. Unfortunately, a first impression is as far as it going to get. I try to give people a chance to show me what they're like. If I only had first imprresions to go by, some friends would definitely not be friends and disingenuous ones would still seem all chummy.

Kendall, you're grouchy and crab at someone you've just met, perhaps lobbing some of those one-liners at them. You realize what you've done later and intend to apologize the next day, or at least try to explain. The next morning, before you have a chance to see the person you were rude to, you die during sex when your parachute fails to open. Would you think that the individual would be right to post messages on a world-wide forum saying you were a crashing (ow) bore?

I'd guess that the nets weren't old when they were hung up to dry. Thanks for the explanation of the ship's 'eye'. I still think 'all-seeing' sounds a bit too Stephen King. (He ought to write one called 'Fishfinder') But I understand now why the 'well-known singer' (Might I be likely to guess the first three letters of his last name?) sings it that way.

I wonder what you'd say if you were here
Where the answers are never easy, nor the questions even clear
And heroes have to learn their strength and angels earn their wings
But one single life can change so many things

People are out of chances to get to know him and he doesn't have any way to make anything right, and when you live out there and your spirit shines so undeniably bright, you're gonna piss some people off.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 11:31 AM

When I first saw Stan perform I thought him a bit brash or boastful, but when I listened closely my opinion quickly changed. Perception can be so subjective........... Stan had tremendous stage prescence fired by his talent and his physical size.
Stan has become an icon but he was never a saint. He was as human as any of us, made his own mistakes and did things his own way. He had a strong will and was firm in beliefs that he freely expressed. That from a man of Stan's massive frame may have at times have been seen as that of a bully. Many similar views expressed from a man the size of Woody Guthrie would be taken with a lesser feeling of intimidation. To my mind they were cut from similar cloth, cared deeply for "the poor workers" and didn't give a shit about the rich executives of the recording industry.
   The talent of either one was enough to gain them fame, mostly by word of mouth.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 10:04 AM

Everytime Stan Rogers comes up, Kendall manages to insert his insults about him. I for one, am tired of it. Kendall how about keeping your negativity to yourself for once?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,breezy
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:46 AM

Its on Home in Halifax, which alo includes the lyric sheet,   



The cod 'went' so cheap and so plenty

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:44 AM

Limited?
Low power (just enough horses to keep that big flywheel rotating; torque did the rest)
Slow (two speeds, stop and go) I think that you could vary the fuel valve a slight amount.
Heavy ( that flywheel alone must have been 100 lbs.)
Hey, we must remember that this fantastic invention replaced a set of oars, which were still carried , just in case, but were seldome needed.

My father had one of these when I was a child so I speak only from faded memory.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:14 AM

Yes, a very simple magneto system, but reliable as hell. As long as you had a spare spark plug it would get you home almost always.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:04 AM

By the way, make and break refers to the ignition system on the old one lung engines. Very simple, but very limited too.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:03 AM

I agree that he was one of the greats, and it was a tragic loss to all who love this type of music.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:02 AM

"delete ???"
should read "death."
I'm not much of a typist! I don't know where the hell that came from! :-}
                Sandy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 08:57 AM

Kendall, Stan was born in Ontario far from the sea but his parents were from Nova Scotia. His mothers family were from the mainland shore of the Chedabucto Bay, which is the southern mouth of the Strait of Canso. He spent summers as a youth with these fisher folk, who lived on and from the sea, and though born a land lubber his heart pumped salt water.
I have seen Stan perform with John Allen Cameron long before he had gained any degree of fame , and I was instantly impressed with his musical abilities. Like you, I was not instantly impressed with his personality, and I can understand what you say. However, I think that we may both have been mistaken. I did not know Stan personally , but I live in the area (on the Cape Breton Island side) of the Strait and I know people who knew him very well. Almost all paint a far different picture of the man. Suffice to say that he was one hell of a talent, and his delete a great loss to the folk world.
               Sandy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 07:17 AM

Having actually been to sea for many years (Stan was a land lubber) some of his lyrics just don't scan.
For instance, ..foreign trawlers go by with their long (all) seeing eye... refers to the electronic fish finders that are so efficient that nothing escapes them.

And, old used up nets are THROWN away what with being useless and all.

I consider Stan Rogers to be one of the all time great song writers, but I wish I had never met him. He was a bully and a crashing boor.The only Canadian I ever met whom I took an instant dislike to. Maybe he spent too much time in the states.

I read that biography; it's worth the reading. Maybe if I had gotten to know him I would have liked him, but that one weekend at Indian Neck was all I wanted of him.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:22 AM

Stan was the best.
S:0)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 03:54 AM

Kendall, I think Sorcha deserves a bit more of an answer than that. Stan died on June 2, 1983, at the age of 33. He was on a plane returning to Canada from the Kerrville (Texas) folk festival. A fire on the plane forced an emergency landing in Cincinnati. Most of the people on board died, apparently from smoke inhalation. (That might have been the event that resulted in the law requiring smoke detectors in airplane lavatories, as that's where the fire started.)

There was a story at the time that Stan died as he was trying to help others get out of the plane. I've subsequently heard that wasn't true, but it would be very much in character if it were.

I heard Stan perform on the Philadelphia waterfront in the summer of 1980. The stage was the old Portuguese bark Gazela Primeiro, which was moored there, along with Admiral Dewey's flagship Olympia and the clipper Moshulu. At one point, Stan looked around him, then looked out at the crowd, and said in that powerful voice, "This is a beautiful ship, and by God, Philadelphia, you're lucky to have her!" And we were...to have her, and to have him, that day.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 01:09 PM

I think he already ius 12String...   :-)

See if you can lay hands on his bio, "An Unfinished Conversation"... a pretty good read

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,12Stringstan
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 12:56 PM

Having spent a few years doing the english folk circuit, I actually knew quite a few of stans songs, but alas, not of stan himself, When i came to Ireland to live my sister went to live for a year in Halifax N.S. and almost immediatly picked up on Stan Rogers, recognising the songs. Before she came back she was given one of his albums on a duplicate cassette, for which i have no name, but recorded live in North America somewhere, And to argue the point earlier, I have never heard anyone peform those songs as good as Stan himself, even though i've heard severel versions beforehand. I now have 3 albums, and a bit of Garnett as well. What a pity this man is no longer with us, I believe he died in a tragic accident.
I think that Stan Rogers should be definetly recognised as one of the all time folk ledgends, who will live on for many years.
12sS

Subject: Lyr Add: MAKE AND BREAK HARBOUR (Stan Rogers)
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 04:58 AM

Copied from Stan's official web site:

MAKE AND BREAK HARBOUR

How still lies the bay in the bright western airs
Which blow from the crimson horizon.
Once more we tack home with a dry empty hold,
Saving gas with the breezes so fair.
She's a kindly Cape Islander, old, but still sound
But so lost in the long liner's shadow.
Make and break, and make do, but the fish are so few
That she won't be replaced should she founder.

It's so hard not to think of before the big war
When the cod were so cheap and so plenty.
Foreign trawlers go by now with long-seeing eyes,
Taking all, where we seldom take any;
And so the young folk don't stay with the fisherman's way.
Long ago, they all moved to the cities,
And the ones left behind, old, tired, and blind
Can't work for "a pound or a penny".

CHORUS: In Make and Break Harbour the boats are so few,
Too many are pulled up and rotten.
Most houses stand empty. Old nets hung to dry
Are blown away, lost and forgotten.

I can see the big draggers have stirred up the bay
Leaving lobster traps smashed on the bottom.
Can they think it don't pay to respect the old ways
That Make and Break men have not forgotten?
For we still keep our time to the turn of the tide,
And this boat that I built with my father
Still lifts to the sky! The one-lunger and I
Still talk like old friends on the water.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:53 PM

Kendall, having somone say a ship is omniscient would be weird enough so I'd be distracted. I can understand why a trawler is 'long-seeing'. 'All-seeing' is in the version written by Stephen King. Old friends walking on water is equally bizarre. Old friends may go out on the sea and talk, but if you've ever taken a stroll out on the Atlantic, bring Stan back!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: kendall
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:42 PM

Clinton is right, it does seem that way, but in my experience not always. I first heard Hobo's Lullaby from Gordon Bok and after hearing Goebel Reeves sing it, there was no contest. Bok did it MUCH better in every way.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: kendall
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:33 PM

Dead

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:07 PM

So, where is Stan?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 06:47 PM

Funny how people always say that about the first version they hear... It doesn't matter how wrong it may be, the first version one hears always seems to be the 'right' one...

(As if there's such a thing as right and wrong in folk music...)

,-)

"For we still keeep our time by the turn of the time"
Sould read "By the turn of the TIDE"... I suspect that's one of the typos that Sandy mentioned...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: kendall
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 06:36 PM

I got the song from a well known singer and his words seem to scan better.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 04:12 PM

I'm a HUGE fan of the Garnet Rogers cover of M&BH....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 04:02 PM

P.S.
These engines were also called one-lungers .

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:59 PM

This is my favourite of Stan's songs. A tough choice but I rate this #1! Except for spelling errors Leadfingers lyrics are correct. From the note that he mentions they would be from Stan's songbook.
The name "Make and Break Harbour" is taken from the engine that almost all of the inshore fishermen of Nova Scotia used in years past. It was more formally known as the Acadia Gas Engine but nicknamed "make&break" and "putt-putt". It had 1 cylinder and a hell of a big heavy flywheel. It was direct drive to the prop (no clutch or transmission) and the engine had to be stopped to stop the boat. You would use your foot to turn the flywheel to start the engine. If you wanted reverse you would kick the flywheel in the opposite direction and it would run backwards.
Reliable, simple and easy to fix an sea.
   
                         Sandy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:37 PM

I am not going to argue , but those are the words as published in the Fogarty Cove book !! And it IS a hell of a good song !!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:32 PM

" The old boat and I still WALK like old friends"


"Still talk like old friends..." is correct...
As is "Go by now with LONG seeing eyes"
as is " Make and break and make do"...

But change is part of the folk process right....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: kendall
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:25 PM

That's pretty much as I learned it, but a few words are different...

But for all we make do the fish are so few...
Foreign trawlers go by with their ALL seeing eye

Keep time by the turn of the TIDE..

The old boat and I still WALK like old friends...


Hellofasong, hellofawriter

Subject: Lyr Add: MAKE AND BREAK HARBOUR (Stan Rogers)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:42 PM

MAKE AND BREAK HARBOUR (Stan Rogers 1976) - The note with the dots I have says "I believe the first song for the Inshore Fishermen"

How still lies the bay in the light western airs
Wich blow from the crimson horizon
Once more we tack home with a dry empty hold
Saving gas with the breezes so fair
She's a kindly cape islander old but still sound
But so lost in the long liners shadow
Make and break and make do But the fish are so few
That she wont be replaced should she founder

Ch

In Make and Break Harbour the boats are so few
Too many are pulled up and rotten
Most houses stand empty Old nets hung to dry
Are blown away lost and forgotten

Its so hard not to think of before the big war
When the cod went so cheap but so plenty
Foreign trawlers go by now with long-seeing eyes
Taking all where we seldom take any
And the young folk wont stay with the fisherman's way
Lon ago they all moved to the cities
And the ones left behind , old , tired , and blind
Cant work for "a pound for a penny"

I can see the big draggers have stirred up the bay
Leaving lobster traps smashed on the bottom
Can they think it dont pay to respect the old ways
That make and Break Men have not forgotten
For we still keeep our time by the turn of the time
And this boat that I built with my father
Still lifts to the sky ! The one lunger-and I
Still talk like old friends on the water

Subject: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: GUEST,12Stringstan
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 01:42 PM

Does anyone out there have these lyrics. I have a scratchy recording of Stan singing this, but a lot of the lyrics are undecipherable.
I'm assuming Stan to be the author of the song, if not, please correct me
Thanks 12sS