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Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior (chantey)
DigiTrad:
BONEY
KINMONT WILLIE
Related threads:
Lyr Req: Jean Francoise? (18)
(origins) Origins: Bonnie was a warrior (2) (closed)
Song Challenge: Bushie Was a Warrior (11)
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Subject: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: DavidHannam Date: 10 Sep 05 - 10:46 AM Anyone got lyrics to Boney was a Warrior? There is a french adaptation and an english adaptation. Preferably the english would be good. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Sorcha Date: 10 Sep 05 - 10:52 AM In the DT BONEY Boney was a warrior Away, a- yah! A warrior and a tarrier John Franswor! Boney fought the Roo-shi-ans The Rooshians and the Proo-shi-ans. Moscow was a-blazing And Boney was a-raging. Boney went to Elbow Boney he came back again. Boney went to Waterloo There he got his overthrow. Then they took him off again Aboard the Billy Ruffian. Boney broke his heart and died Away in Saint A-lee-ay-na Give her the t'gan's'ls Its a weary way to Baltimore. Drive her, Cap'n, drive her And bust the chafing leather. Short drag chanty. This version From Colcord, Songs of American Sailormen. Elbow = Elba; Billy Ruffian = H.M.S. Bellerophon; t'gan's'ls = topgallantsails; A-lee-ay-na = Helena Recorded by John and Lucy Allison @sailor filename[ BONEYNAP TUNE FILE: BONEYNAP CLICK TO PLAY RG
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: GUEST,David Hannam Date: 10 Sep 05 - 10:55 AM Many thanks. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: CET Date: 10 Sep 05 - 11:01 AM I think this is the first folk song I ever heard. I can remember my sister singing it, when I was about 5 or 6. Where she learned it, I have no idea. Thanks for the thread and the lyrics. I think I'll try to learn this for the Getaway. Edmund |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Le Scaramouche Date: 10 Sep 05 - 11:49 AM A piece of trivia. In the English translation of Asterix in Corsica, their Corsican friend is named Boneywasawarriorwayayix. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Dead Horse Date: 10 Sep 05 - 03:49 PM French version is called Jean Francois de Nantes, & tells a different story about a sailor too posh for the rest of the crew, but ends up with the pox anyhoo....:-) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Dead Horse Date: 10 Sep 05 - 03:50 PM ....and the version in DT is to be deplored (Old Misery Guts again) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: el_punkoid_nouveau Date: 10 Sep 05 - 04:43 PM I learned it from that wonderful fount of all things traditional, the BBC! It appeared in Singing Together in 19something-or-other (when I was still in short trousers - the first time around!), from which I culled the following: Boney was a warrior Way ay ah Boney was a warrior John France wah Boney beat the Prooshians Boney beat the Rooshians Boney went to Mossycow Boney he came back again Boney went to Elbow Boney went to Waterloo Boney he was sent away Boney broke his heart and died Boney was a warrior From the Beeb, it must be authoritative! epn |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: dick greenhaus Date: 10 Sep 05 - 05:40 PM Dead Horse: Quit bitching abut the darkness and light a goddam candle. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: GUEST Date: 10 Sep 05 - 06:14 PM I am sure that shantymen would extemporise so there would not be a definitive version. Most that I have heard differ between the first and third lines of each verse. Boney was a warrior A warrior a terrier Boney beat the Prussians The Austrians and Russians Boney went to Waterloo Met the boy who put him through He met the Duke of Wellington Then his downfall was begone I used to know several other verses but haven't sung it for over 25 years and the senior moments are becoming senior half hours |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Peace Date: 10 Sep 05 - 06:42 PM Boney was a Warrior Boney was a warrior Away, a-yah! A warrior and a terrier Jean Francois! Boney fought the Russians Away, a-yah! The Russians and the Prussians. Jean Francois! Moscow was a-blazing Away, a-yah! And Boney was a-raging. Jean Francois! Boney went to Elba Away, a-yah! Boney he came back again. Jean Francois! Boney went to Waterloo Away, a-yah! There he got his overthrow. Jean Francois! Then they took him off again Away, a-yah! Aboard the Billy Ruffian. Jean Francois! He went to Saint Helena, Away, a-yah! There he was a prisoner, Jean Francois! Boney broke his heart and died Away, a-yah! Away in Saint Helena Jean Francois Google Boney was a Warrior, lyrics Lots of sites with the words, some of which differ slightly from that in the DT. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Leadfingers Date: 10 Sep 05 - 06:54 PM Isnt there a verse that goes :- He beat the prussians fairly He beat the British nearly But indeed there are all sorts of variations of ALL the shanties ! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: CET Date: 10 Sep 05 - 07:31 PM I think the version in the DT is just fine. If you know another one, add it. CET |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: SINSULL Date: 10 Sep 05 - 07:38 PM Paul Clayton sings Peace's version on his Whaling Songs LP. Dead Horse have a bug up his ass? Or have I missed something? |
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Subject: ADD Version: Boney Was a Warrior From: Dead Horse Date: 10 Sep 05 - 08:36 PM Ive always had a bug up me ass. Its just that as I gits older, it peaks out now and agin! You axed fer it Dick, so here goes.. BONEY WAS A WARRIOR Boney was a warrior, way hey ya A warrior a terrier, John Francois. Boney went ta school in France, He learned ta make them Rooshians dance. For Boney fought the Rooshians, The Oostrians & Prooshians. Boney marched on Moscow, He lost his army in the snow. Moscow was a blazin, He had ta turn around agin. We met him in Trafalgar Bay, Carried his top-mast away. Boney went to Elbow, There he got an overthrow. Boney marched to Waterloo, The big-nose Duke, he put him thru. He beat the Prooshians fairly, He beat the English, nearly. He met the Duke of Wellington, That day his downfall had begun. Boney went a cruisi-in, Aboard the Billy Ruffi-in. Boney went to Saint Helen, He never did come back again. They put poison in his food, Didn't do him any good. Boney broke his heart and died, In Corsica he wished he'd stayed. For Boney was a Corsican, A rortin snortin Corsican. Boney was a general, A randy dandy general. There are more verses, but I tend to stick with the ones that tell the story in chronological order. Now then, what about the froggy version, huh?
-Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Dead Horse Date: 10 Sep 05 - 08:59 PM I dont read it or speak it, but I does it fony-ettikly, OK? Jean-Francois de Nantes, Oue oue oue Gabier sur la frigante mes boues, Jean-Francois Debarqu'en fin d'compagne, Fier comma un Roi d'Espagne mes boues. En vrac dedans sa bourse, Il a vingt mois de course mes boues. Une montra, une chaine, Valant una baleine mes boues. Branl'bas chez son hotesse, Bitte et boss et largesses mes boues. La plus belle servante, L'emmene dans sa soupente mes boues. De conserve avec ella, Navigue sur mer belle mes boues. Et vidant la bouteille, Tout son or appareille mes boues. Montr' et chaines s'envolent, Mais il prend la verole mes boues. A l'hopital de Nantes, Jean-Francois se lamente mes boues. Et les draps de sa couche, Dechirent avec sa bouche mes boues. Il farait de la peine, Meme a son capitaine mes boues. Pauvr' Jean-Francois de Nantes, Gabier sur la frigante mes boues, Jean-Francois. Mebbe some froggy spikkin person can do it justiss, huh? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: dick greenhaus Date: 10 Sep 05 - 09:20 PM Dead Horse- Thanx! Nice bright candle. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: CET Date: 10 Sep 05 - 11:28 PM Thanks, DH. I like your version too. As for the French song, it doesn't seem to be a French version of Boney. Is the tune at all similar? The lines don't scan the same way. About the only similarity I can see is the two line structure, which isn't uncommon, and the name Jean-Francois. Where did you find it? CEt |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Sep 05 - 11:33 PM "Jean Françoié de Nantes" is a Breton (sailors) drinking song. The tune is not the same. No relation to 'Boney.' Jean Francois A midi linked in this thread and here: Jean Francois |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Gurney Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:34 AM Bony was a warrior. way-ay-yah, A warrior, a terrier, John Francois. Bony beat the Prooshians Then he fought the Rooshians. Bony went to Moscow Lost his army in the snow. Bony he came back again Moscow was a-blazing then. Bony went to Elbow They couldn't keep him there you know. Bony went to Waterloo There he met his overthrow. 'Twas on the plains of Waterloo He met the lad to pull him through. Bony's gone a-cruising then Aboard the BillyRuffian. Bony went to Saint Helen' and he never came back again. Bony broke his heart and died Bony broke his heart and died. Bony was a warrior A warrior, a terrier. Been singing that for 30 years, but I can't remember where I got it. Probably selected verses from SftSS by Stan Hugill. There aren't any definitive versions of shanties, of course. Anything is legitimate as long as you sing it to some version of the tune. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Dead Horse Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:55 AM I got the French version from a tape by a group called Djiboudjep. Tape is full of shanty music. As far as I can see the tune is ALMOST same as Boney, and I often start singing J-F then switch to Boney after second verse. Been burnin my candle at both ends for a while, Dick. bg. As for scanning, that surely depends upon how you sing it. A hell of a lot of shanties dont scan at all, then ya hear 'em sung, and ya eyes is opened, fer sure! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Roberto Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:16 AM 7 recordings of Boney Boney James Forman, Leith, on Shanties & Sea Songs recorded by James M. Carpenter (1928-29), Archive Shanties & Sea Songs, volume 1, Folktrax 141 Johnny was a warrior Away, hey, yah Johnny was a warrior John Fran-swar Said he would conquer all the world Away, hey, yah He said he would conquer all the world John Fran-swar But when he went to Moscow Away, hey, yah When he went to Moscow John Fran-swar Moscow was on fire Away, hey, yah Moscow was on fire John Fran-swar [*] he come back again Away, hey, yah Johnny [far?] he kneeled down Away, hey, yah Johnny [far?] he kneeled down John Fran-swar He went to St Helena Away, hey, yah He went to St Helena John Fran-swar [Bury?] his body, his bones lie low Away, hey, yah [Put?] him in [France city?] John Fran-swar Boney Was A Warrior Brian Pearson, in The Critics Group, Waterloo:Peterloo, English Folk Songs and Broadsides 1780-1830, Argo ZDA 86 1968 Boney was a warrior Weigh-hey-yah A warrior a tarrier Jean François Oh Boney beat the Rooshians Weigh-hey-yah And Boney beat the Prooshians Jean François Oh Boney marched to Moscow Weigh-hey-yah He lost his army in the snow Jean François He marched his army back again Weigh-hey-yah And Moscow was a-blazing then Jean François We licked him in Trafalgar Bay Weigh-hey-yah We carried his main-top-mast away Jean François 'T was on the plains of Waterloo Weigh-hey-yah He met the boy that put him through Jean François Boney went a-cruising Weigh-hey-yah Aboard the Billy Ruffian Jean François And Boney went to St.Helen Weigh-hey-yah And he never come back again Jean François Boney Alan Mills and The Four Shipmates, Songs of the sea, Folkways F-2312, 1951 Boney was a warrior Way-ay-yaw A warrior and a tarrier John Françwah Boney fought the Prooshians Way-ay-yaw Then he fought the Rooshians John Françwah Boney went to Moscow Way-ay-yaw Boney went to Moscow John Françwah Moscow was a-blazin' Way-ay-yaw Boney was a –ragin' John Françwah Boney went to Elbow Way-ay-yaw Boney went to Elbow John Françwah Boney went to Waterloo Way-ay-yaw There he got his overthrow John Françwah Bonny he was sent away Way-ay-yaw Away to Saint Helena John Françwah Boney broke his heart and died Way-ay-yaw Boney broke his heart and died John Françwah Boney was a warrior Way-ay-yaw Boney was a warrior John Françwah Boney Was A Warrior Paul Clayton, Whaling & Sailing Songs, Tradition TCD 1064 (original LP release: Whaling & Sailing Songs from the days of Moby Dick, Tradition Records TLP 1005, 1956) Boney was a warrior Away-ay-ya A warrior, a tarrier Jean François Boney fought the Prussians Away-ay-ya And Boney fought the Russians Jean François Boney went to Moscow Away-ay-ya Across the Alps in frost and snow Jean François Moscow was a-blazing Away-ay-ya And Boney was a-raging Jean François Boney went to Elba Away-ay-ya And Boney he come back again Jean François Boney went to Waterloo Away-ay-ya And there he got his overthrew Jean François Boney he was sent away Away-ay-ya Away in St. Helena Jean François Boney broke his heart and died Away-ay-ya Away in St Helena Jean François Oh, Boney was a warrior Away-ay-ya A warrior, a terrier Jean François Boney Dan Aguiar - The X-Seamen's Institute, on Classic Maritime Music from Smithsonian Folkways Recordings, SFW CD 40053; from Sea Songs Favotites, Folkways 37325, 1981 Boney was a war-rye-or Away-aye-yah! A war-rye-or, a ter-rye-or Jonny Franswor! Boney beat the Prussians Away-aye-yah! The Osstrye-ans an' the Rooshye-ans Jonny Franswor! Boney went to school in France Away-aye-yah! He learnt the Rooshians how to dance Jonny Franswor! Boney marched to Moscow Away-aye-yah! Lost his army in the snow Jonny Franswor! We licked him in Trafalgar's Bay Away-aye-yah! Shot his main topm'st away Jonny Franswor! 'Twas on the Plains of Waterloo Away-aye-yah! He met the boy who put 'm through Jonny Franswor! He met the Duke of Wellington Away-aye-yah! An' then his downfall wuz begun Jonny Franswor! Boney went a-cru-sye-in Away-aye-yah! Aboard the Billy Ruf-fye-an Jonny Franswor! They sent him into exile Away-aye-yah! He died on St Helena's Isle Jonny Franswor! Boney was a war-rye-or Away-aye-yah! A war-rye-or, a ter-rye-or Jonny Franswor! Boney Peter Marston, The Revels, Blow Ye Winds in the Morning, A Celebration of the Sea including traditional sea songs dances and chanteys, Revels Records CD 1084, 1992 Boney was a warrior Way-aye-yah! A warrior and a terrior Jean Francois! Boney fought the Russians. Way-aye-yah! The Russians and the Prussians Jean Francois! Boney marched to Moscow Way-aye-yah! Lost his army in the snow Jean Francois! Boney went to Waterloo Way-aye-yah! There he got his overthrow Jean Francois! Away in St. Helena Way-aye-yah! Boney broke his heart and died Jean Francois! Boney Maddy Prior, Ravenchild, Park Records, PRKCD49 (1999) Boney was a warrior Wey, hey, ah A warrior, a terrier John François He planned a distant enterprise Wey, hey, ah A great and distant enterprise John François He is off to fight the Russian bear Wey, hey, ah He plans to drive him from his lair John François They left with banners all ablaze Wey, hey, ah The heads of Europe stood amazed John François He thinks he'll beat the Russkies Wey, hey, ah And the Bonny Bunch of Roses. John François Boney was a warrior Wey, hey, ah A warrior, a terrier John François |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: CET Date: 11 Sep 05 - 07:29 AM DH: I was wrong. Listening to the midi you can tell that the tune of Jean-Francois is closely related to Boney. Of course, like most midis it isn't very helpful in actually putting words to music. I would imagine that English sailors borrowed the French tune and liked the refrain "Jean Francois" which they butchered into variations on "John Franswar." It's fascinating to see how the memory of Bonaparte being transported on HMS Bellerophon remained in the folk memory on both sides of the Atlantic. There's a good history of HMS Bellerophon called "Billy Ruffian: The Bellerophon and the Downfall of Napoleon" by David Cordingley. CET |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: CET Date: 11 Sep 05 - 11:27 AM PS: I didn't mean my remark above as an insult to whoever went to the trouble of making the midi file available. I just find it difficult to make sense of midis. I find that I have Jean-Francois de Nantes in my own library in a collection called "Traditions de la Marine: Chansons de Marins", editions Jean-Paul Gisserot. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Lighter Date: 11 Sep 05 - 01:13 PM Maddy Prior appears to have written those unusual and memorable verses herself. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Lighter Date: 11 Sep 05 - 01:15 PM Dead Horse, did you add that bit about "poison in his food" ? Seems to me that was a 1970's discovery (or assertion). |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Dead Horse Date: 11 Sep 05 - 01:46 PM Garnered from gawd knows where. Musta heard it an liked it, so it got added. Despite the name, I am a living tradition :-) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Sep 05 - 02:49 PM Other than being a reference to a Frenchman, how Johnny Franswar (John France-O, Jean-François), joined into the song "Boney" is a matter of speculation; perhaps from sailors who were familiar with the traditional Breton "Jean-François of Nantes," or from French shipmates, or onshore. In some versions of "Jean-François of Nantes," he is compared with a landsman, "un terrien." This may be the source of Boney being compared with a terrier in one version of "Boney." As CET says, the memory of Bonaparte lingered. Gale Huntington reproduced several songs about him from old journals in "Songs the Whalemen Sang," 1964 (reprints inc. Mystic Seaport). None is related to "Boney" or "Jean-François." |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Peace Date: 11 Sep 05 - 03:24 PM Re Napoleon I and murder/poison. http://www.napoleonguide.com/naparsenic.htm http://www.didyouknow.cd/napoleon.htm |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Le Scaramouche Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:50 PM Oh yes the old myth of Who Murdered Napoleon. Anyway, there was lots of contact between Nantois sailors and British counterparts for centuries. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: GUEST,Dave Hannam Date: 12 Sep 05 - 04:14 AM Many thanks to all you sent in versions. all much needed and neccessary. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: GUEST,Robin Madge Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:42 AM I sing almost the same words as the BBC "Singing together" version and my late father said it seemed the same as he remembered his Uncle singing to him in the 1920's. Uncle was ex-clipper ship captain Phil Tyrer! Robin Madge |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Sep 05 - 02:08 AM The Digital Tradition says its version is from Joanna Colcord's Songs of American Sailorman. I checked Colcord, and I'd say the DT transcription is a good one. The DT does put phonetic spellings of some words in the last two or three verses, and explains the phonetic spellings in the notes. The DT tune is exactly the one used in Colcord (but the tune I know for "Boney" is much closer to the one for "Jean-Francois de Nantes" at Robokopp. -Joe Offer- There's not much in the entry at the Traditional Ballad Index: BoneyDESCRIPTION: Napoleon's story in the space of a shanty: "Boney was a warrior, Way up! A warrior and a tarrier, John Francois!" He fights the Russians, comes to Waterloo, is defeated, goes to Saint Helena, and diesAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1907 (Reeves-Circle) KEYWORDS: shanty Napoleon exile battle HISTORICAL REFERENCES: 1812- Napoleon's Russian campaign 1815- Battle of Waterloo 1821- Death of Napoleon on Saint Helena FOUND IN: Britain(England(South)) US(MA,MW) REFERENCES (14 citations): Reeves-Circle 13, "Boney" (1 text) Doerflinger, pp. 6-7, "Boney" (2 texts, 1 tune) Walton/Grimm/Murdock, pp. 78-79, "Boney" (1 composite text, 1 tune) Bone, p. 42, "Boney" (1 partial text, 1 tune) Shay-SeaSongs, p. 29, "Boney" (1 text, 1 tune) Colcord, pp. 40-41, "Boney" (1 text, 1 tune plus 1 fragment of "Jean Francois") Harlow, pp. 27-28, "John Francois (Boney Was a Warrior)" (1 text, 1 tune) Hugill, pp. 445-446, 448 "Boney," "Hilonday" (2 English and 1 French text, 2 tune) [AbrEd, pp. 333-335] Sharp-EFC, XLIX, p. 54, "Bonny Was a Warrior" (1 text, 1 tune) Terry-Shanty1, #26, "Boney was a warrior" (1 text, 1 tune) Darling-NAS, p. 310, "Boney" (1 text) Silber-FSWB, p. 88, "Boney Was A Warrior" (1 text) DT, BONEYNAP* ADDITIONAL: Captain John Robinson, "Songs of the Chantey Man," a series published July-August 1917 in the periodical _The Bellman_ (Minneapolis, MN, 1906-1919)." Boney was a Warrior" is in Part 4, 8/4/1917. Roud #485 CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Bud Francois" (parody) ALTERNATE TITLES: John Francois Jean Francois de Nantes File: Doe006 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2018 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. There are two versions in Doerflinger, but I didn't see significant differences from what's been posted already. The version in Darling's New American Songster is a five-verse version transcribed from a Folkways recording by Sam Eskin. Nothing really unusual in Silber & Silber's Folksinger's Wordbook, either. |
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Subject: ADD Version: Boney (from Hugill) From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Sep 05 - 02:33 AM Here's the version from Hugill. BONEY Boney was a war-ri-or, (Chorus: Way-aye-yah!) A war-ri-or, a ter-ri-or, (Chorus: Johnny Franswor!) Boney beat the Prussians, The Osstrians an' the Rooshians. Boney went to school in France, He learnt to make the Rushians dance. Oh, Boney marched to Moscow, Across the Alps through ice an' snow [Lost his army in the snow]. Boney wuz a Frenchyman, But Boney had to turn agen. So he retreated back agen, Moscow wuz in ruins then. Boney went to Elbow There he got his overt'row [or: Boney went to Elba, Wisht he'd niver bin there.] He beat the Prussians squarely, He whacked the English nearly. We licked him in Trafalgar's Bay, Carried his main topm'st away. 'Twas on the Plains of Waterloo, He met the boy who put him through. [The big-nosed Duke he put him through.] He met the Duke of Wellington, That day his downfall had begun. Boney went a-cruisin', Aboard the Billy Ruffian. Boney went to Saint Helen', An' he never came back agen. They sent him into exile, He died on Saint Helena's Isle. Boney broke his heart an' died, In Corsica he wisht he styed. He wuz a rorty general, A rorty, snorty general. from Hugill, Shanties from the Seven Seas tune available on request. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: dick greenhaus Date: 13 Sep 05 - 09:32 PM I've always thought that the transmogrification of Belepheron to Billy Ruffian was one of the great triumphs of the folk process. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: The Walrus Date: 14 Sep 05 - 05:18 AM I'm not sure that Belerophon to Billy Ruffian is 'The folk process'. It has been recorded (can't remember where I read it) that many sailors (without the benefit of a "Classical" education) had problems with Ships' names, which were often either "Classical" or, in the case of captured ships "bought into service", foreign; and so they "translated" them into phrases that they could easily shout and understand as rallying cries in the heat of action, thus:- Belloerophon - Billy Ruffian Aggememnon - Eggs and Bacon Furieuse - Furry Arse Regards W |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Snuffy Date: 14 Sep 05 - 08:59 AM By the same process on the racecourse Empedocles became "empty bottles" |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Gurney Date: 15 Sep 05 - 05:34 AM Walrus, I think the 'Furry Arse' translation is from the novelist Adam Hardy in one of his 'Fox' sea stories. That's where I read it, anyway. Maybe I should Google it to see. Nah, can't be bothered. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: The Walrus Date: 15 Sep 05 - 06:40 AM "...Walrus, I think the 'Furry Arse' translation is from the novelist Adam Hardy in one of his 'Fox' sea stories..." Possibly, but I don't remember ever having read one. Q |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: GUEST,charlie pearson Date: 14 Sep 09 - 02:10 PM your all fuckin idiots it go's like this boney was a warrior way-ah-ya boney was a warrior jon-fronz-wa boney went to waterloo way-ah-ya boney went to waterloo jon-fronz-wa boney he was sent away way-ah-ya sent to saint el-ee-nas jon-fronz wa boney broke his heart and died way-ah-ya boney broke his heart and died jon-fronz-wa |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: RTim Date: 14 Sep 09 - 03:21 PM I have a version, collected in Portsmouth (Hants. UK) Workhouse Infirmary by Dr. Gardiner in 1907, that I think is very English, that goes like this: Boney - from James G. Bounds, ex-seaman aged 52 Oh, Boney was a warrior, Oh, weigh heigh ya A warrior and a terrior (sic), John BrownÕs war. Boney went a cruising, etc. In the Channel of Old England, etc. And Nelson also went also a-cruising He fought with noble Boney And Boney got taken prisoner, And Boney got taken prisoner He got sent to St. Helena, There he died a prisoner. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Dead Horse Date: 14 Sep 09 - 07:04 PM It is my belief that any verse that has repeating lines, rather than rhyming lines, is a mistake or momentary lapse on the part of the singer which was then written down by an uninformed collector. You will find it occurs in many collected shanties, and I try to avoid repeating the repetition, if you see what I mean? The version above looks very suspect as well. More like some old seaman making up a vaguely remembered shanty on the spot for the price of a pint, and to my mind, not worth the price of a glass of tap water. A shanty for a shandy - bah humbug! Disgusted of Strood X (His mark) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: RTim Date: 14 Sep 09 - 07:32 PM Repeating the verse line is called - Stringing Out, and is what a not very good shantyman would do. The better singers always rhymed and made up verses. So - who are you to say that something collected 100 years ago is suspect!! Tim Radford |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Gibb Sahib Date: 14 Sep 09 - 09:29 PM I have to disagree with Dead Horse and RTim here. I guess my main reason would be because I see no grounds to assume that there is something wrong with stringing out like that. I do see how a rhymed couplet would appear to indicate more sophistication or cleverness, but I'm not convinced that it was necessarily better or more authentic. Come to think of it -- another reason why I think that is because SO MANY of the early collected examples of chanteys have repeated lines. It's unlikely, I think, that this was all uninformed collectors or beggars in the pub. I guess I'd agree if you stood two chanteymen side by side, one rhyming, one not, and asked "Which one is the better chanteyman?"...and for want of other criteria I'd cede that the master of rhymes was a pro. But to generalize about the one line thing......hmm, I dunno Gibb |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Barry Finn Date: 14 Sep 09 - 11:02 PM During the Viet Nam conflit an old singing partner of mine served on the USS BON HOMME RICHARD also known as & called the BONNY DICK Barry |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior From: Dead Horse Date: 15 Sep 09 - 12:40 PM All the collectors were uninformed, unless they knew the words before collecting :-) I would think that the most common form of "stringing out" would be to repeat a whole verse, forgetting that you had already sung it. But you wont find the shanty written down that way by the collector. As for who I am? I am me, and will suspect anything that doesnt appear to ring true, no matter who sung it or who collected it. "Which one is the better chanteyman?" The one who got the job done. A shanty is a tool. The shantymans job was to pick the right tool for that job, no more, no less. At sea it didnt matter if he sang the same line over and over again ad finitum - but ya wouldnt wanna to see it collected that way, would ya? So why do you accept repeated lines so easily??? |
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Subject: Lyr Add: BONEY (chantey) From: Jim Dixon Date: 16 Sep 09 - 11:27 PM From "Corbiestanes: Chronicle of a Fishing Village" by Mrs. Charles Garnett, in The Sunday Magazine, Volume 9 (London: Isbister and Company, 1880), page 39: Out away in the North Sea the "top-sel" was being hoisted on board the Bonny Betsey, and as the sailors strained at the ropes, over the water rang in doleful measure, rising and falling in unison with the surrounding waves, the time-keeping song of "Boney." A finely-made man, the first on the line, his golden ringlets blowing about his beautiful Saxon face, led in a clear tenor, the men joining in the pulling chorus which came every alternate line:—
Why, ha, har! Why, ha, har! Boney was a warrior— Why, ha, har! Why, ha, har! He fought the Danes and Prüssi-ans, Also he fought the Röö-shians. Now Boney went to Moscow— Moscow was a-burning; Now Boney went a-cruising In the Channel of Old England, Nelson also went a-cruising, And thus they chanced to meet; And Boney got took up, And Nelson shipped him in a packet All to Saint Helena."
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior (chantey) From: GUEST Date: 02 Aug 10 - 11:22 AM My friend, I don't wish to open that can of worms, and alarm you. Suffice to say that the "Beeb" can indeed be authoritative, but can also be skewed, slanted and downright mischevious at times - especially when it comes to . . . "Empire" ! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior (chantey) From: Lighter Date: 02 Aug 10 - 12:55 PM The earliest unquestionable reference I can find to "Boney" is from 1868, but in 1888 a writer asserted that it had been a "favourite capstan song forty years ago in Green's India fleet began as follows: Old Boney was a warrior, Yo-ho, my lads, yo-ho; He beat the Rooshians, Yo-ho, yo-ho. The writer wanted to "find out the rest of it, and, if possible, the tune." That suggests the likelihood that the quoted fragment was heard second-hand. The dating to the time of the Gold Rush is perfectly plausible - though unconfirmed. If "He" is changed to "Boney" the words will fit the familiar tune with just a little musical adjustment. A forty-year-old memory, however, is not always perfectly reliable. (Trust me on that one, whippersnappers.) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior (chantey) From: Lighter Date: 02 Aug 10 - 01:04 PM James Forman of Leith sang the following for James M. Carpenter around 1929. Forman, born in 1844, went to sea in 1856: Johnny was a warrior, Away, ay, yah! Johnny was a warrior, John François! He said he would conquer all the world…. [2x] With John François! When he went to Moscow…. [2x] Moscow was afire…. [2x] When he come back again…. [2x] Johnny boy he nailed 'um…. [2x] Johnny went to Sant Hele-ena…. [2x] There his body and his bones lies low…. Now they've got 'em in France City…. Note the repeated lines and the absence of "Boney." Forman was in his mid 80s when he sang into the machine Nobody who's listened to Carpenter's recordings would say that Forman could ever have been a second-rate shantyman! |
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