BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 09:50 AM

I dont believe in astrology, that doesnt stop me from reading my stars for the day!

freda

(pisces)

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 09:58 AM

Me too. (pisces..it must be a trait?)

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 10:52 AM

Hmmmm. Someone is all hot and bothered about the astrology nay-sayers. Is this an anonymous guest, or a regular member seeking cover because they don't want to admit publicly to their beliefs in astrology? Hiding out and protesting is a way to have your cake and eat it, too, but it is no way in which to convince anyone that your word is worth listening to. I have skipped to the front of the line because frankly I'm not interested in reading all about astrology, though for those who are, Azizi has provided links. Which is better than the anonymous guest in there slugging it out with everyone who has registered disbelief.

Way up there this guest posted:

Mythology is the foundation upon which all the world's cultures have built their societies. If you choose to be ignorant of that foundation, it's your choice, but don't condemn people out of your choice to remain ignorant.

You have the cart way out in front of that horse, guest. First off, you're conflating your "ologies." Mythology is not the equivalent of astrology, and you seem to misunderstand mythology. "Mythology," in many circles, is a term used to step down the sacred into the profane. Christianity calls religions that came before "myths" (if they're being polite) because that is a way to dismiss them as false, not the real way to their god (who is, in their view, the only god. They call them "cults" if they feel threatened.) Mythology is also a term used academically to codify various archic belief systems that were very ancient (thus incompletely understood) or smaller autochthonous religions with some form of written or artistic history (also incompletely understood). Myths are collected representations of belief systems but because they are archaic, the interpretation of those beliefs and the reading of cultural use of such things as metaphor or irony within that religion is entirely incomplete.

"Myth" as a word is far-reaching, is nevertheless frequently misused, and has been misapplied here.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 11:16 AM

Well Wolfgang, Clinton, Paul, DMcG, PiedPiper, BillD, and all you other bigoted and intolerant men? (13 Sep 05 - 08:06 AM )

Wikipedia: the word bigot is used as an ad hominem abusive to terminate a discussion without having to consider the actual arguments voiced.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 11:46 AM

Quit talking about Uranus as if it is to blame.

There are plenty of other ass holes that coincidently coincide with the diasater.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 12:27 PM

Wolfgang, you believe everything you read in Wikipedia?

Pied Piper, reincarnation is a belief system that dates from the oldest known written and oral traditions of ancient people, NOT just something invented in India. If you'd like to open your mind a little, you may read more about it, by scrolling down on this page to Ancient Belief Systems. There you will find that even the Catholic Church taught about reincarnation up to the 4th century. Please note: I am NOT saying the author of those pages is a definitve authority, but she does have sources and quotations from each belief system. I found her site through google.

Also, do you go out of your way to go into shops which sell goods you don't believe in or like and tell them how "fucked" they are? Why do you and others feel so compelled to try muck up others' threads?

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 01:10 PM

To those who say I'm foolish for studying astrology, I say
"Sticks and stones may break my bones
but names will never hurt me".

For those who are interested in this ancient study, I say "More power to you".

For those who could care less about astrology, but want to belittle it and talk bad about those of us who are "in to" that subject,
I say "It don't make me no never mind". And I hope that those folks who are interested in astrology will not let what others say
disturb their peace.

My purpose for starting this thread was to share several articles that I've read on the subject of astrology & Hurricane Katrina.

If others want to use this thread to discuss the pros & cons of astrology, then do your thing.

It's a free country-at least that's what they say.


Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 01:12 PM

this is a **public** forum. As such, you are open to replies to anything posted. There IS a private way to conduct discussions if you can't abide any comment on your views. Just be a member and exchange 'private messages'.There are also forums where almost everyone agrees with you.
It is certainly possible to discuss astrology, and almost anything else, in an environment where everyone just nods and says, "oh, yes, that's like what happened to ME!"
   I like Mudcat because it's not a one issue forum where ideas are just spouted and never debated.

If you read carefully, I try very hard to indicate my opinions without insult or personal attack. I dispute IDEAS, not people. I have very heated exchanges here with people whom I like and respect...some of whom I know personally.

All this being said, there is a pretty big difference between discussing a subject or set of beliefs, and advocating them...'preaching' about a subject in here is not a good idea, whether it be religious or political or metaphysical. To her credit, Azizzi, is NOT doing that! It is clear she has a serious interest in Astrology, but she is not INSULTING me by suggesting that I am missing a bet by not signing up....if she had, my remarks would be a bit more...um....pointed. *grin*

All you 'guests' need to be aware of the reality of an 'open' forum, and what constitutes congenial behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 01:13 PM

I see we cross posted, Azizi...thanks for a sensible reply

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 01:34 PM

Wolfgang, you believe everything you read in Wikipedia? (Katlaughing)

No, I'm far from it, but this particular quote fits well some here which are very quick with the word 'bigoted'.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Peace
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 01:57 PM

Oh yeah? Well if astrology doesn't work then explain "a pair of star-crossed lovers took their life", and then they DID. Ha! Refute THAT!

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 02:12 PM

I think it is a fascinating approach. I wonder how Pisces vs. Taurus vs. Aires say look at the problem differently...I wonder who the people are who plunged right into rescue operations not waiting for approval from Mama Fema...I would bet Taurus but maybe not.. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 03:25 PM

I don't know, either, mg, but they should've had an Aries at the start...Aries are great for getting things going!:-)As it was, they had a Scorpio.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Grab
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 04:07 PM

I don't have a problem with astrology. However, I do have a problem with a lack of logical reasoning.

New Orleans, as I've just described it, conjures the astrological Pluto, god of the underworld.

Nope. You could just as easily say "people are fighting irrationally and killers are roaming the streets, therefore Mars rules". Remember that Mars was the serial killer of that mythology. Pluto actually was a cold-blooded kind of ruler of a (literally) dead-end world. That whole description is conflated with the Christian concept of Hell, and would have had no relevance to the Romans, whose mythology these gods came from.

In other words, it's been written by someone without a good grasp on mythology. Are these the people you trust for your interpretations of events?

As regards the "ancient" nature of this study, I'd remind you that Pluto wasn't discovered until well into this century (1930 IIRC), so any significance attached to it can't have been thought up any later than 75 years ago. And even the name "Pluto" was a fairly arbitrary choice (unless you believe there were deeper forces at work when the name was chosen, which is a belief system and not something that can be proved/disproved).

Pluto enters Sagittarius on January 16, 1995. Pluto re-enters Scorpio on April 21, 1995 and enters Sagittarius for good on November 10, 1995 (Pluto then stays in Sagittarius until 2008).

If you had Pluto entering Sagittarius on that day, during the hour of the flood, then maybe you'd have an interesting coincidence. But this happened TEN YEARS AGO and will still be the case for another THREE YEARS after the event!

Imagine how many other newsworthy events have happened in that time. The Asian tsunami could just have easily been tagged with that, couldn't it? (That's assuming that your description of the significance astrologers attach to the event is correct - I couldn't say myself.) Why should the New Orleans disaster be particularly remarkable amongst the many, especially since the number of people who died there is insignificant compared to the numbers killed in all the other tragedies (natural disasters, man-made disasters, and wars) over the last 13 years?

It is probably true that I turn to astrology after the fact as a means of understanding why things happen.

And therein lies the problem.

As previous posters have stated, religion and mythology (and hence astrology) are a great source of comfort in times when you feel helpless. Astrology explicitly says that life is pre-ordained and we can't do anything about it, so it isn't our fault that we're in the shit (to be Plutocratic ;-). In an ancient world with no support structures and no hurricane warnings or whatever, that kind of fatalistic comfort was the best you could do.

But for the relatives of people who died in New Orleans, this isn't much comfort. Fatalism excuses the criminal negligence by FEMA, US central government, armed looters and NO citizens who failed to leave in time after the hurricane warnings, who all had shares in a man-made disaster. Fatalism tells you "it would have happened anyway". But why would it? The hurricane was natural, but the disaster was 100% man-made, and being man-made it was therefore 100% avoidable. And whereas primitive man with primitive mythologies had no-one to blame for his cave getting flooded, modern New Orleans residents can point the finger fair and square at individual people who made decisions that led to this all happening.

If you're not saying "it would have happened anyway", then why would a predictable astronomical event has any effect on this? And if a predictable astronomical event had an effect, why do you (and others that you've quoted) make the connection?

Please don't think I'm saying this to get at you. It isn't any kind of attack on you. Rather, it's an attack on the faulty logic that has people trying to use astrology to try and make sense of past events. It may be fun, and if it gives you pleasure then by all means keep doing it. (Writing computer software gives me pleasure, and that's a pretty bloody illogical state of affairs! ;-) But it isn't, and can't ever be, a useful guide.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 04:22 PM

Graham, most folks whom I know who enjoy studying astrology are most definitely NOT fatalists. There are innumerable ways to *interpret* astrology. Everyone I know who is "in to" it, sees it as an indication of possible influences, NEVER as absolutes. I've encountered more "absolutists" in the medical world (often proved wrong) than in circles of astrologists.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: TIA
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 04:54 PM

I am truly curious. This is not a nasty challenge, trap or test. I will not even post a reply...

I was born March 18, 1961 in Southern New Jersey.

Can any astrology believers tell me three or four specific things about me?

(e.g. what do I do for a living, am I married, and to what sort of person, what's my favorite type of music, have I ever been incarcerated, have I ever been in the military, or the Boy Scouts, or a Glee Club...)

Thanks

(truly truly not a challenge, and no "nyah-nyah" will follow - but you have a chance to make a believer)

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Peace
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 06:32 PM

Try a google of

astrology, charts

It asks for info only you would have. Many of the sites are free, BTW.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 06:35 PM

Nah...I want a real person to take a stab at it.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 09:45 PM

If anyone does, it should be done by PM, imo. Sounds too much like bait to me considering the tone of some of the postings.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 10:54 PM

yYou're married, you have two kids, you play a long neck Troubadour banjo, your name is Tim and you were born under the Exxon sign.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 11:02 PM

Your wife's father is a doctor and you area bird watcher.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 11:07 PM

nO WAIT, your favorite is a Wildwood Minstrel LONG NECK BUT YOU HAVE A gOLDTONE.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Amos
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 11:48 PM

Ia a Wildwood Minstrel Longneck better?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 04:44 AM

You need to give your time of birth, TIA, if you want a comprehensive reading from someone who knows what he or she is doing.

(I can tell you one specific thing about you from the information you gave. You are younger than me.)

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Pied Piper
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 05:39 AM

"You need to give your time of birth, TIA, if you want a comprehensive reading from someone who knows what he or she is doing."

As we know astrology is an ancient practice and we have clearly missed in the acheological record all those accurate ancient clocks and global time system necciserry for people to know the time of their birth.

BS indead.

PP

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 07:13 AM

Surely you jest, Mr. Piper. People were making very sophisticated astronomical measurements in many ancient civilizations. I suspect the practice of astrology was probably was an offshoot of some of those practices.

At any rate, that's what I've been told by people who do charts. They say you need the time of birth to know what your rising sign is, and a bunch of stuff about which houses your planets are in, or something like that. If the people who invented astrology didn't have access to telling time in one way or another, I would imagine they wouldn't have come up with the idea that the time of one's birth determines one's rising sign, etc, and the question would be moot.

Here's an (oversimplified) example of how this would work... I'm a capricorn with leo rising. My sun sign alone doesn't match up in many respects with the way I tend to approach things and the way I tend to look at things, but when the leo rising is added and adjustments are made, there is a pretty close correlation with a lot of my tendencies. Here's a for instance... from time to time, I tend to seek out the limelight (that's a leo thing). But because of the capricorn tendency to not want to be the center of attention, when I get there (in the center of attention), I find that I wonder what the hell I was thinking by putting myself in such a position, and I want to go hide in a shadow somewhere (capricorn).

My son is leo with leo rising. He loves nothing better than being in the spotlight, and never regrets it once he's there.

Saggitarians like to take food off of other people's plates and eat it. I don't know why, but almost all of the ones I know do that. Aquarius women are usually in a constant state of crisis. If there is no crisis brewing in their lives at any point in time, they will (unconsciously perhaps) create one. Aquarius men are not like this (except for a gay friend of mine who is an aquarius... he is like aquarius women in that regard).

I don't know if I believe any of this astrology stuff, or if maybe I believe some of it, or none of it. But I don't really care because I like it. I find it to be interesting and fun, and it has esthetics that I find pleasing. And coincidence or not, it's a source of amusement for me when my daily horoscope matches what happens to me on any particular day (sometimes even down to specific events). I don't use it to make any decisions (except maybe sometimes when it urges caution about something... and then I will try to be vigilant about what is being cautioned. I can't really see any harm in that).

I like circuses, too, and I play the accordion. I figure, to each his or her own.

Karma, on the other hand, according to my own beliefs, is simply the rules of the game each of us sets up with the decisions we make and the actions we take. If we behave dishonestly, for instance, we set up the rules of the reality we live in to be one that includes dishonesty, and in such a reality, we will tend to see a lot of dishonety around us. If we behave with compassion, we set up the rules of the reality we live in to be one that includes compassion, and we will tend to see a lot of compassion around us. So from my perspective, when we experience the cause and effect of karma, it's just that we are experiencing the effects of the rules we put in place ourselves. Which isn't to say that every bad or good thing that happens to us is a result of karma. There can be many other reasons why things happen the way they do. Karma's just one part of the mix.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 08:23 AM

I promise. It's not baiting.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Pied Piper
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 09:25 AM

There is a great deal of difference between predicting the day of a solstice or an eclipse to knowing the time of day accurately.

PP

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Peace
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 09:56 AM

If ya know when the rooster crows, when meals are and when the sun goes down--what more do ya need?

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 01:35 PM

The earliest clocks measured the sun's position in the sky.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: TIA
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 02:17 PM

00:02:00 AM btw.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 02:41 PM

Nearly all the testable predictions of astrology have been tested and found to be wrong.
The only interesting thing is how a belief persists despite the absence of empirical support.

Old thread

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Alice
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 03:00 PM

When I was fresh out of college, the first illustration assignment I had was illustrating the zodiac for a computer astrology company. I researched each sign, started into a 15 or so year interest that had me delving deeply and hoping it would be the answer to many of life's mysteries (what sign is compatible with me, why did a boyfriend/boss/co-worker behave the way they did). I eventually learned more about random word generators, cold reading and the history of astrology. Now I can see it for what it is, a system of randomly generated words and phrases that have no bearing whatsoever on humans and their activities. People identify with what is a "hit" and ignore the "misses", so they give credence to it.

ASTROLOGY FACT SHEET
http://www.ntskeptics.org//FACTSHTS/astrolog.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 03:05 PM

Thanks for the refresh, Wolfgang. I think this bears repeating, too:

I would ask, again, why is it necessary for the sceptics among us to denigrate, make assumptions, and generally treat with disdain, the spiritual beliefs/practices of some of the rest of us? I thought Mudcatters had more respect for one another's diversity than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 03:50 PM

Kat, it also bears repeating what you have posted immediately before you posted the above quote for the first time:

Some of us are serious students of ancient metaphysical teachings which do delve into the practical application of metaphysical laws, which are proven to us through scientific experiments, which we conduct together and on our own.

Science and scientific experiments are always open to debate. 'Prove' and standards of it are also a matter of open debate. Declare it a religion and you'll hear no word from me (as long as no statements of fact are involved). The combination I hate the most is if someone makes testable and empirical statements but falls back to 'spiritual beliefs' when challenged.

One can't have it both ways. Stay on your side and you are safe from any rational critique. Cross the line and your statements are game. Someone believes in God, for instance, no problem, someone claims a young age for the Earth then no recourse to 'spiritual beliefs' or however a Christian for instance might express that will prevent critical comments.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 04:10 PM

katlaughing=defender of the irrational and ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 04:24 PM

14 Sep 05 - 04:10 PM, I prefer ten katlaughings to one of your kind.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 05:59 PM

Thanks, Wolfgang.

I cannot declare my metaphysical beliefs and the teachings I study to be a religion as they are not. I understand and respect what you are saying, though we will never agree as to what is provable and in what way.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Grab
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 06:32 PM

Kat, even if you only consider them as "possible" influences, you're still considering the possibility that a predictable planetary movement was a cause of effect X (whatever's being analysed). Even if you consider multiple possibilities, that's still fatalism, in that if *one* of them has to have an effect then you're down to a multiple-choice solution which restricts the possible outcomes. If an available option is that none of them might have an effect, leaving events unconstrained - well, why try predictions in that case, because that's just a fancy way of saying "don't know".

And the "multiple-choice" version is logically worse, in that it allows the user to select their own best-fit to actual events. If things follow what you expected, you got your prediction right. If it didn't go to plan, you obviously picked the wrong predictor, didn't you? So the error was in your choice of predictor, and not in the prediction method itself. :-)

Carol, accurate measurements of time in Western and Arabic cultures (from whence the Western astrology system came) are pretty recent. Until the pendulum clock appeared in the mid-1600s, no-one could work out an accurate time except from astronomical measurements, which took a very long time to work out. So that dates astrology's interest in the time of birth to at the latest 350 years ago.

As a bit of fun, it's fine. It's fun looking at the stars pages in the paper, like it's fun reading Snoopy or Doonesbury or whatever. No worries there. But if someone says that Snoopy cartoons affect world events, well you might start to be a bit worried.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 07:10 PM

Ok, astrology experts... do you know if Grab is correct in saying that the concept of the "rising sign" only goes back as far as 350 years ago? Or does anyone know of any references to rising signs prior to that time?

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 07:20 PM

*reading regularly, but mostly sitting on my hands*

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 08:47 PM

Grab/Graham, I do not use astrology at all, esp. not to "predict." I find it interesting. I, in no way, know enough about it to use it in any way.

You may find the following interview with Sri Chimnoy of interest. I am NOT endorsing all that he says; I just found it and read it, today. Click Here.

Thanks, Bill, for sitting on yer hands!**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 05:32 AM

So that dates astrology's interest in the time of birth to at the latest 350 years ago.

As one previously invited not to comment in this thread, I hesitate to post again ... but I didn't hesitate very long!

Although accurate clocks only go back 350 years or so, it doesn't follow that astrology can only have regarded time of birth as significant for that long. It would be possible to make the case that the difference is one of degree: You can get one quality of analysis based on knowing only the day, a different quality knowing the time as roughly early morning, late morning, afternoon, evening or night, another quality again when the precise hour is known, yet another when we know the time down to the second and, who knows, even the millisecond.

As you know, I don't subscribe to astrology at all, but they is no inconsistancy between requiring an accurate time nowadays with the limitation on knowing the time accurately way back when.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Alice
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 09:19 AM

Astrology used the time of birth to cast charts much before 350 years ago. There is a very good history of astrology at the link I posted earlier.

Astrology Fact Sheet

It's a great article.. well worth reading for those who are interested in discussing astrology.

To quote in part...
"The oldest horoscope that has been discovered dates to April 29, 410 B.C. A horoscope is simply a crude
chart which indicates the directions in which the various planets lie, relative to the zodiac, at the time of a person's birth. During the classical era
dominated by, first, Greece, and then, Rome, Babylonian astrologers (called Chaldeans) set up shop in most large urban areas throughout the
civilized world....
Later, the Roman statesman Marcus Tullius Cicero wrote, in 44 B.C., a devastating critique of these
astrologers, which is still worth reading today....
The Crusades brought astrology back to Europe where it co-existed uneasily with Christianity until the dawn of the age of science. The explosive
growth of scientific astronomy from 1600 A.D. paralleled an explosive decline in the fortunes of astrology. By 1900 a French encyclopedia
accurately described astrology as a vanishing cult with no young adherents.

Astrology made the strongest comeback in all its history after World War I, when British astrologer R.H. Naylor invented the daily newspaper
astrology column.

The paradoxical result is that the heyday of astrology was not during the benighted Middle Ages, when the average person was sunk deep in
ignorance and superstition, but rather in the 20th Century, when most citizens presumably know the basic facts of astronomy and are aware that the
planets are worlds similar to the earth rather than god-fires in the sky...."

Suggested Reading:

      Abell, G.O. and Barry Singer (Eds.), Science and the Paranormal. (Scribner's, N.Y., 1981) See articles "Astrology" and "Moon
      Madness" both by Abell.
      Carlson, Shawn, "A double-blind test of astrology," Nature, 318:419, Dec. 5, 1985.
      Cohen, D. Myths of the Space Age (Dodd, Mead, New York, 1967.) Chapter II.
      Culver, Roger B. and Phillip A. Ianna, Astrology: True or False? A Scientific Investigation. Prometheus Books, 1988.
      Dean, G., "Does astrology need to be true? Part I: A look at the real thing," The Skeptical Inquirer, Winter 1986-87, p. 169.
      Dean, G., "Does astrology need to be true? Part II: The answer is no," The Skeptical Inquirer, Spring, 1987, p. 257.
      Gauquelin, Michel, Dreams and Illusions of Astrology. Prometheus Books, 1979.
      Hyman, Ray, "Cold reading: how to convince strangers that you know all about them," The Zetetic, Spring/Summer 1977, p. 19.
      Lindsay, J., The Origins of Astrology. Barnes and Noble, 1971.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 09:31 AM

If I have pisces rising in Uranus, should i see a doctor?

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 11:05 AM

No, you should join a circus. There's money to be made there Ted.

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 11:29 AM

Here's another online article about astrology and Hurricane Katrina:

Neptune Spawns Katrina

And here is an excerpt from that article:

"New Orleans, Katrina's point of attack on the U.S. coastline, is also the nexus of major oil and transportation systems. When this category five hurricane struck, not only did it create a huge regional mess, but the aftermath sent gas prices soaring across the country, and will likely lead to a significant recession beginning in a few months. As the most devastating natural disaster in U.S. history, the planetary indicators will be plainly visible in the U.S. horoscope.

All the key words describing this colossal tragedy – flooding, oil, victims, uncertainty and chaos – speak of Neptune. New Orleans itself, sitting below sea level, and the soul of the Blues, resonates with Neptune, the God of the Seas. In the Scorpio Rising chart (2:21 pm; July 4, 1776), transiting Neptune is right on the U.S. fourth house cusp, exactly opposite the Midheaven.

A fundamental principle in traditional astrology is that major events correspond to major transits to the angles. The four angles represent the points where spirit manifests in the material world. Without the connections to the angles, nothing of historic significance can happen. While slow-moving Neptune was passing over the U.S. fourth house cusp, along came Mars to trigger the hurricane. Mars and Neptune were exactly squaring each other when Katrina landed....

The Astrology of Hurricanes
Like other destructive hurricanes before it, Katrina arrived when all the outer planets were forming close aspects to each other. In Katrina's case, Jupiter and Neptune were trine, while the destructive duo Saturn and Pluto formed a tri-octile (135º aspect). Saturn was also opposite Chiron, which historically has been involved in these celestial currents.

Hurricane Andrew (August 24, 1992) was the previous holder of the most destructive, in terms of property damage. Andrew took place as Jupiter trined a Uranus-Neptune conjunction. Saturn and Chiron opposed each other, as well, with Pluto widely squaring both. Hurricane Camille (August 17, 1969) held the title before Andrew, and this one featured a Jupiter-Uranus conjunction opposite Chiron, and Saturn precisely tri-octile Pluto.

Naturally, the outer planet alignments influence the entire global weather system, but what fixates these stresses into the United States are the concurrent hits to the U.S. horoscope. Katrina is a perfect example, since transiting Neptune was (and is) right on the U.S. fourth house cusp. During Andrew's rampage, Chiron was right on the U.S. Midheaven (with Saturn opposite). Camille featured Saturn exactly conjunct the U.S. Descendant...."

Source: Michael (WolfStar) O'Reilly's NewsScope September 5, 2005

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 11:43 AM

*hands getting restless and impatient to ask if (Wolfstar) O'Reilly called anyone with a clear warning*

(one hand escaped)

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST,Uneventful times
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 11:49 AM

Micheal (Wolfstar) O'Reilly says "Without the connections to the angles, nothing of historic significance can happen." That is a claim to be able to identify periods where he can guarantee 'nothing of historical significance' will happen. Care to press him for some examples over the next few months or years?

Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 11:49 AM

My chakras are strongly predicting a 100th post is coming my way...