Origins: Lochmaben Harper / Blind Harper

Subject: Lyr Req: Louch Haven Harper by Nic Jones ( I thin
From: GUEST,nutter
Date: 18 Sep 05 - 02:08 AM

I have searched for the lyrics to a song called the Lough Haven ( naven, aven ??? )Harper. Think it was sung by Nic Jones.......can anyone help. don't think the old nic jones albums are still on release..........are they?

Thanks

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Louch Haven Harper by Nic Jones ( I thin
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 18 Sep 05 - 02:44 AM

The song is The Lochmaben Harper. You can find a set of words here in the DT: The Lochmaben Harper, but the source is not Nic'a recording. The story is also given in the thread: Story Add: The Lochmaben Harper, where you will see in Malcolm Douglas' post that "Nic Jones' set was on From the Devil to a Stranger (Transatlantic LTRA 507, 1978), and is unfortunately one of those being withheld by "Celtic Music" of Harrogate"

You can find a transcription of Nic's version at Selected English Folk Singers - Nic Jones. Go down to the album given as From The Devil A Stranger (sic) and click on the link for The Blind Harper for the words. I haven't checked the transcription (they were unsure of Lochmaben at least); if I have time later I'll check it against the record.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Louch Haven Harper by Nic Jones ( I thin
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 18 Sep 05 - 02:45 AM

GUEST NUTTER---There is little doubt that the lyrics you seekare "The Lochmaben Harper". I was privileged to hear Nic give a live rendition 'way back in the late sixties. I havent checked the 'net for the slong, but it'll be there somewhere,I'm sure.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Louch Haven Harper by Nic Jones ( I thin
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 05 - 02:53 AM

Morning Mr Nutter!! (Great name BTW)
Yes indeed, Nic Jones recorded it on "From the Devil to a Stranger".
His 4th LP. All 4 being unavailable now.
(If you want to know the story, there are plenty of threads about Celtic Music, both here and on other message boards.)
Suffice to say that the legal wranglings still continue, and, probably will do so for many a year more.
More knowledgable people than me on this board will no doubt give you chapter and verse on the songs history, (and probably 50 or so variants as well.)
Don't know for sure, but, knowing Nic, he probably rewrote the whole damn song, and the tune anyway, One of his little quirks!!

Hope you find the words.
Regards Ralph Jordan.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Louch Haven Harper by Nic Jones ( I thin
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 05 - 02:55 AM

There you go....See what I mean.
The Mudcat is truly a wonderous place, All we need is for Malcolm Douglas to complete the story now!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Louch Haven Harper by Nic Jones ( I thin
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 18 Sep 05 - 03:11 AM

A particle of useless info---Lochmaben, Dumfries-shire is reputed to be the birthplace of Robert de Bruce.....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Louch Haven Harper by Nic Jones ( I thin
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 18 Sep 05 - 03:39 AM

The transcriptions at the Selected English Folk Singers site aren't that hot.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE BLIND HARPER (from Nic Jones)
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 18 Sep 05 - 05:42 AM

As it turns out the transcription for this wasn't that bad - a few errors in the early verses, but mostly OK. Here's what I think is on the record. If I have time later I'll put the tune up.

Mick

---

THE BLIND HARPER
(Trad arr Nic Jones)

Have you heard of the blind harper,
How he lived in Lochmaben town,
How he went down to fair England
To steal King Henry's wanton brown?

First he went unto his wife
With all the haste that go could he:
"This work" he said, "It'll never go well"
"Without the help of our good grey mare".

Says she, "Take the good grey mare
She'll run o'er hills both low and high.
Go take the halter in your hose
And leave her foal at home with me".

So he is up to England gone,
Even as fast as go could he.
When he got to Carlisle gates
Who should be there but King Henry.

"Come in, come in, you blind harper,
And of your music let me hear".
But up and says the blind harper,
"I'd rather have a stable for my mare".

The king he looks over his left shoulder
And he says unto his stable groom,
"Go take the poor blind harper's mare
And put her beside me wanton brown".

Then he's harped and then he's sang
'Till he played them all so sound asleep,
And quietly he took off his shoes
And down the stairs he did creep.

And straight to the stable door he goes
With a tread as light as light could be,
And when he opened and went in
There he found thirty steeds and three.

And he took a halter from his hose
And from his purpose he did not fail.
He slipped it over the wanton's nose
And he's tied it to the grey mare's tail.

And he went and loosed the castle gate
And the mare didn't fail to find her way,
She's back to her own colt foal
Three long hours before the day.

So then in the morning at fair daylight,
When they had ended all their cheer,
Behold the wanton brown has gone
And so was the poor blind harper's mare.

And oh and alas is the blind harper,
"However alas that I came here
In Scotland I've got me a little colt foal
And in England they've stolen me good grey mare".

"Hold your tongue" says King Henry,
"And all your mournings let them be
For you shall get a far better mare
And well paid shall your colt foal be".

Again he harped and again he sang
And sweet was the music he let then hear.
He was paid for a foal that he never had lost
And three times over for the good grey mare.


Source: Nic Jones LP, From The Devil To A Stranger

Subject: Lochmaben Harper
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Sep 05 - 04:18 PM

Basically, Nic shortened the text from Scott's Minstrelsy, modernising and anglicising it at the same time. The tune I don't know about; it sounds little like the three variants that have survived, so he probably came up with it himself or adapted a tune from elsewhere.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Louch Haven Harper by Nic Jones ( I thin
From: GUEST,mr nutter
Date: 19 Sep 05 - 05:42 AM

WONDERFUL.......hell you guys ( 'n' gals ) are great. That is indeed the song...........fantastic stuff really !! THANK YOU ALL !! Especially Mick Pearse, will definate buy you a pint next time I see you :)

so there not available, these music companies are %^&*£$% are they ! off the the second record shop then.

mr. Nutter

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Louch Haven Harper by Nic Jones ( I thin
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Sep 05 - 06:49 AM

When searching the vinyl for From The Devil To A Stranger you need to be aware that the label is Leader/Trailer and not Transatlantic. Meanwhile, it may help you to know that Martin Carthy & Dave Swarbrick also recorded the song on Life & Limb (Topic TSCD491).

Subject: RE: Origins: Lochmaben Harper / Blind Harper
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 May 21 - 03:52 PM

Martin Carthy sings a very different version. Anyone know the lyrics he uses?

Subject: RE: Origins: Lochmaben Harper / Blind Harper
From: Howard Jones
Date: 02 May 21 - 01:59 AM

Rakosczy has recorded this, based on Nic Jones' version, on her recent album "Frontrunner"

https://talkingcat.bandcamp.com/releases

Subject: RE: Origins: Lochmaben Harper / Blind Harper
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 02 May 21 - 02:16 AM

Martin Carthy's version of Lochmaben Harper can be found at https://mainlynorfolk.info/martin.carthy/songs/lochmabenharper.html

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Origins: Lochmaben Harper / Blind Harper
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 22 - 07:21 PM

I’m learning this song now. I’m a guy in America who just discovered Nic Jones and his wonderful guitar playing. No one mentioned Andy Irvine, but he’s has a most wonderful version too. Cheers.

Subject: RE: Origins: Lochmaben Harper / Blind Harper
From: Tony Rees
Date: 20 May 22 - 03:25 PM

This is a Child ballad, well documented in the usual places, e.g...

Wikipedia: The Lochmaben Harper
Child: Google Books
Bronson: Google Books
Mainly Norfolk: Lochmaben Harper / The Blind Harper / The Wanton Brown
Roud: Roud no. 85

I too first heard it from the singing of Nic Jones, in or around 1973. He sang it on the John Peel (radio) show as well, of which I have but a fragment on tape (last couple of verses only, late with switching on the recorder!). Nic's arrangement is very nimble and appealing!

- Tony

Subject: RE: Origins: Lochmaben Harper / Blind Harper
From: Tony Rees
Date: 21 May 22 - 06:59 PM

John Knight recorded Nic singing "The Blind Harper" in a club in Godalming, Surrey, in 1974, which you can hear as part of this set here: https://soundcloud.com/knight-briggs-et-al/johnknighttape_102_002... if I get the OK from the Jones family to put up another live Nic Jones set that I have in my drawer (from 1973), I will add the John Peel fragment that I have as a bonus track :)

Cheers - Tony

Subject: RE: Origins: Lochmaben Harper / Blind Harper
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 22 - 05:59 AM

https://youtu.be/AxUFGzt2R-g