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Bending Notes on Guitar

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*daylia* 25 Sep 05 - 08:37 AM
Brían 25 Sep 05 - 08:47 AM
number 6 25 Sep 05 - 09:15 AM
*daylia* 25 Sep 05 - 10:10 AM
Brían 25 Sep 05 - 10:21 AM
C-flat 25 Sep 05 - 10:51 AM
Willie-O 25 Sep 05 - 11:02 AM
Leadfingers 25 Sep 05 - 11:03 AM
John Hardly 25 Sep 05 - 12:03 PM
Don Firth 25 Sep 05 - 12:18 PM
GUEST 25 Sep 05 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,Cumbrian 25 Sep 05 - 05:29 PM
*daylia* 25 Sep 05 - 07:48 PM
mooman 26 Sep 05 - 04:06 AM
Grab 26 Sep 05 - 08:28 AM
*daylia* 26 Sep 05 - 10:49 AM
John Hardly 26 Sep 05 - 11:14 AM
number 6 26 Sep 05 - 11:48 AM
DonMeixner 26 Sep 05 - 12:32 PM
Nick 26 Sep 05 - 07:49 PM
Nick 26 Sep 05 - 07:53 PM
GUEST,Mike, Halifax UK 26 Sep 05 - 07:56 PM
number 6 26 Sep 05 - 11:27 PM
Mooh 27 Sep 05 - 09:52 AM
*daylia* 27 Sep 05 - 10:05 AM
C-flat 27 Sep 05 - 11:34 AM
C-flat 27 Sep 05 - 11:38 AM
Nick 27 Sep 05 - 12:15 PM
M.Ted 27 Sep 05 - 01:42 PM
*daylia* 27 Sep 05 - 02:32 PM
*daylia* 27 Sep 05 - 02:36 PM
GUEST 28 Sep 05 - 01:35 PM
*daylia* 29 Sep 05 - 08:14 AM
Nick 29 Sep 05 - 08:47 AM
M.Ted 29 Sep 05 - 10:56 AM
GUEST 29 Sep 05 - 11:04 AM
M.Ted 29 Sep 05 - 11:26 AM
GUEST 29 Sep 05 - 11:26 AM
M.Ted 29 Sep 05 - 11:36 AM
GUEST 29 Sep 05 - 11:48 AM
M.Ted 29 Sep 05 - 01:01 PM
*daylia* 30 Sep 05 - 10:14 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 30 Sep 05 - 11:31 AM
M.Ted 30 Sep 05 - 01:21 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 30 Sep 05 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 30 Sep 05 - 09:57 PM
*daylia* 01 Oct 05 - 09:28 AM
GUEST 01 Oct 05 - 03:27 PM
GUEST,2 lips & roses 01 Oct 05 - 04:39 PM
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M.Ted 01 Oct 05 - 07:53 PM
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Subject: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: *daylia*
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 08:37 AM

I have a question for the Cat's guitar experts - is it even possible to bend a note 3 frets (1 and a half tones) on an acoustic guitar??? My fingers have developed perma-trenches over the last few days from trying, and I can still barely make 2 frets let alone 3! I've tried using my first two fingers on the fret behind to help with the push, but still no go. :-(

Is it because I'm playing an acoustic rather than an electric? Or because the Elixir strings I'm using (and loving) make the fretboard/strings too slippery? Or is because of my "little girlie fingers", as my son so heartwarmingly (not!) pointed out the other day watching me struggle in vain? (I do have very small hands...can barely reach over an octave on the piano... *sniff sniff*)

Any ideas or suggestions or explanations would be much appreciated.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: Brían
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 08:47 AM

Are trying to make Chuck Berry-style unison notes on the G string(no pun intended)? I tried putting electric guitar strings on my acoustic with some success, but it will affect the timbre.

There will be players with more expertise coming along.

B


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: number 6
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 09:15 AM

It's possible ... just tried it. It is a bit slippery (I use nothing but Elixirs)and lot's of control is required. This seems more of an 'lectric' guitar thing, with the effects that it can produce. It could be your fingers. If that is your problem, try a short scale guitar.

sIx


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: *daylia*
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 10:10 AM

Well it's interesting to hear at least someone can manage it! You mean try it on a smaller, folk size guitar sIx? I was looking at one of those the other day ... Seagull makes such nice ones ....

I thought about trying electric strings, Brian. Hmmm ... but no, I'm not trying to be Chuck Berry! Actually, I've been on a Fogerty kick for the last month or so. After a few decades of hamming through my favorite CCR tunes by ear, I broke down and actually bought this Anthology the other day. Maybe THAT'S my mistake!   ;-)

Now I know why my own renditions sounded ok-but-missin-something-pretty-vital all this time. The books' so-called "easy, basic" (HA!) authentic versions are chock FULL of 2-3 fret bends and barre chords, and it sure sounds like he's playing an acoustic with a pickup to me! I'm getting the barre chords much easier these days, but those bends are so frustrating ....


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: Brían
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 10:21 AM

Well, necessity is the Mother of Invention. I am amazed to hear what the old-timers like John Hurt did with a lot less technology than we have at our disposal. I wish i could afford the variety of musical instrumrnts to suit my cravings.

B


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: C-flat
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 10:51 AM

You might want to try a lighter string or try getting another finger behind the one bending the string for more strength and support. It's as much technique as strength, but hand strength, or lack of it, will play a part.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: Willie-O
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 11:02 AM

John Fogerty usually played a Les Paul, I believe. No doubt an acoustic sometimes too.

What I would ask is, why do you need to bend a string so far? It will probably put your guitar out of tune, or break a string, more often than not, so may not be the most useful technique to strive for. Plus, acoustic and electrics are different instruments and it's not necessarily useful to transpose directly from one to the other. There is a much simpler way of getting that note, just start from a higher fret! Or try playing the same lick on a higher-position inversion of the same scale. Just because someone put it in a book does not make it the best or only way to play the part. (Fortunately, the simplest way to play a given part is usually the best-sounding cause it's the most fluid.)

Fogerty's guitar work in CCR was usually terrifically crunchy, played on the lower strings and positions a lot, and somewhat repetitive--he built great riffs that way. It would have been interesting to see what the band would have sounded like if he had been the nominal rhythm guitarist and recruited a high-end lead player.

His biggest influence was Steve Cropper, so you might want to look up some of his work while you're woodshedding. Good luck.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 11:03 AM

The lighter the string , the easier 'bending' is , but be careful ! A friend of mine was challenged at a session to 'bend' strings of medium guage on his acousic Ovation , did so and promptly broke the string he was bending ! But the thought that came to MY mind was WHY ?? Bending a tone and a half seems a little excessive unless you are playing SERIOUS Rock guitar .


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: John Hardly
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 12:03 PM

Have you tried a slide-and-bend? It may not work in every context (especially if you're immediately returning to the initial note), but you might be able to fudge it by sliding one fret and then bending. Some frets are pretty large and would give you a decidely "stoppy" sound to the movement, but two of my guitars have very slight frets and...

...never mind.

I just tried a step-and-a-half bend and can't do it. (mediums on a 25" scale guitar)


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 12:18 PM

WOW! Bending a string a minor 3rd (a step and a half) sounds like an awful lot to me.

Since I use a nylon string classic (and I don't do blues, not because I don't like the blues, but because I'm lousy at it), I don't even try to bend strings. Bur I know a fair number of poeple who do blues and such (steel strings), and when they bend notes, they usually shoot for about a half-step at most--not because that's the specific pitch they want, but to play a note that's sort of "in the cracks between the keys."

Why, specifically, a step and a half?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 01:38 PM

A lot of rock guitarists tune low - just tried tuning G on my acousticWashburn parour guitar down to D - three frets is easy.

Stu


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST,Cumbrian
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 05:29 PM

Yes, it is possible. One thing to decide on is as to whether you want to push up to the note ( harder, but possible with a fair bit of strength with at least two fingers behind the note ), or easier, in some cases, using a pull up to the note ( on the two bass strings this is the only option to get larger interval bends ). Alot depends upon a)the gauge of strings ( I would look at light gauge and below ) b) the action, sometimes a very low action means that it is harder to get the right amount of purchase on the string, c) the height and shape of fret wire ( higher, well crowned and polished frets will always be easier to bend across d) finger strength ( obvious, but take it slowly to build up strength.

One thing to watch when bending heavier ( acoustic gauged strings) is the potential for a very painful split between flesh and nail if you catch it wrong.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: *daylia*
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 07:48 PM

WOW - and on that note I'll give these sore fingers a break and ponder all this helpful info awhile instead! A thunderstorm just rolled in and I want to unplug the computer, so I've printed out your posts.

Thanks so much, everyone - you're wonderful!   ♫♫


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: mooman
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 04:06 AM

It's certainly possible on an acoustic (with lighter gauge strings) but I can't think of a time over the past 42 years playing guitar I've actually needed to do it. On electric yes but not acoustic.

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: Grab
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 08:28 AM

Depends on how heavy your strings are, and how strong your fingers are. I tend to use 12s on my acoustics, and I reckon on a 2-semitone bend being about the max. My electric runs 11s, and a 3-semitone bend is about the limit for that. If you use very light strings (9s or 10s) then 2 or 3 semitones is easy - the problem is controlling it so that you do small tasteful bends instead of some kind of extreme wide hard-rock bends!

For unison bends, I find 2 semitones is usually sufficient - unison bends are more about where you land than where you start.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: *daylia*
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 10:49 AM

moo, Graham, Cumbrian et al, thanks a lot. I think the difficulty is more about unrealistic expectations (trying to force a decidedly 'electric' effect out of an acoustic guitar, as Willie-O pointed out) + the medium gauge strings I use, rather than small hands or "girlie" fingers.   

The action on this guitar was set for medium gauge strings; when I've tried to use lights instead, I've noticed the intonation suffers. So in order to make those bends easier, I could re-set the action and use lights - but the question is, as so many of you pointed out - WHY? Especially when acoustic has it's own awesome styles, techniques and range of effects to master. Want electric effects? Use an electric guitar then! It would be a waste of time and effort to try to force a flute to sound like a sax, or a piano to sound like a church organ too ... (just trying to convince myself here!)

Don, the reason for the bending a note up a -3rd is simply to hit the designated higher pitch with that cool-sounding electric 'warp', rather than dead-on by fretting it. But if you can't make the proscribed bend, you end up with a "wrong note" that sticks out like a sore thumb (sounds flat) in the lead guitar part. So you're better off fretting it or improvising something similar. Hmmm - I'm going to try the slide-bend combo mentioned above as soon as my fingers feel a bit less like chopped liver. The frets on my Seagull are pretty low, so it might work.

Just because someone put it in a book does not make it the best or only way to play the part.

Yup, this is true.   :-/   I just have a lifetime of classical "by the book" training and teaching on the piano to get beyond, I think. Put a book in front of me, and I do tend to automatically see it as a bible or something if I'm not careful. That's because when you're playing for marks for examiners/adjudicators who are following the score note by note as you play, believe me 'going by the book' is vital.

And that's why I've avoided guitar books - and even guitar teachers! - all these years, choosing to learn on my own by ear and watching others (and most recently, asking you wonderful Catters!) instead. Less stressful, leaves more room for creativity and improvisation, I thought. But certain other vitally important things - like effective, efficient technique - unfortunately get left by the wayside that way. At least that's been my experience over the years!

Fortunately, the simplest way to play a given part is usually the best-sounding cause it's the most fluid.

This is so true - on any instrument. Thanks so much again Willie, and everyone else too!


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: John Hardly
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 11:14 AM

When Catfish Keith plays "Eagle Bird" he bends as far as anyone I've ever seen on an acoustic. I asked him about his set-up. He uses lights on a short-scale guitar.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: number 6
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 11:48 AM

Short scale guitar doesn't necessarily mean its a smaller guitar Daylia. They have a shorter scale length. Taylor (I'm partial to Taylors) has a couple in the 510 and 710 dreadnought series. They've reduced their scale lenght by 5/8 inch.This allows for lower tension and closer fret spacing. This would certainly make complex bending and chording easier.

sIx


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: DonMeixner
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:32 PM

John Fogarty often tuned a whole step low. That can be why his bending to a minor third was possible.

Why not use an archtop type electric/accoustic guitar and play it accoustically. There are some great big Guilds and Gibsons out there, the odd Gretch might do as well.

But then there is the "This is the guitar I have" thing to consider as well.

Good luck with the experiment.

Don


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: Nick
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 07:49 PM

A lot depends where you are playing on the neck which you didn't mention.

I just had a go on a spanish and two acoustics and can do a one and a half tone bend on each at the twelfth fret a la Hotel California solo on the B string - B string on the acoustics are 17 gauge. I use my ring finger for the bend supported by first and second behind it. Trying to do the same bend at the 6th fret is MUCH harder though still possible. I too have small hands but the guitar has a nice action. (At 12th fret on the same string it will go 2 tones but it's my friend and I like my fingers and my strings)

I think a lot is to do with the attack of your fingers and the belief you can do it - ie bend strongly early and push without fear of a string break.

Alternatively play with light gauge strings! Light gauge strings on an electric allow 2 and a half tones - eg Jimmy Page on Led Zepp 2 (can't remember the track but it has a lot of unaccompanied guitar on it) but I think he liked a banjo string on top occasionally


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: Nick
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 07:53 PM

...or be Stevie Ray Vaughan

He played with a very high action and very heavy strings and could bend it like it was going out of fashion. Knocked the hell out of the finish of the guitar and I think I read used to refret the guitar with something super heavy so that he didn't wear them out too often!


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST,Mike, Halifax UK
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 07:56 PM

Good question... but the best answer... why?


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: number 6
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 11:27 PM

Why, you ask? .... why not is what I reply!

sIx


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: Mooh
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 09:52 AM

Good advice above. How'd I miss another guitar thread?

Had the opportunity this year to try an acoustic with the last several frets removed for a sort of violin-like fretless feel. No problem sliding up to pitch on that, though the action on the fingerboard tongue needed some tweaking. If I could only afford one of everything I'd have one.

There're different "textures" to bent, slurred, bottlenecked, rises in pitch...fun to messa round with.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: *daylia*
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 10:05 AM

Hee hee - thanks, number 6. I like it! And for the explanation too. I just found some info about Guitar Scale Lengths at that link - see, you can learn something new every day if you want to! I bet a smaller scale guitar would be heaven on earth for these little hands! As long as it didn't affect the tone too much (I don't like wimpy guitars - chose a spruce-top Seagull with curly maple back and sides a couple years ago for the big, bright tone)

And after drooling over Don Meixner's post last night (I was playing those Gibsons and Gretches in my dreams) I KNOW now what I need is a second guitar...

Been thinking about it for over a year now. Even with the good case I have, I still don't like hauling this one out in the snow and cold for teaching several times a week (I tend to treat my instruments like newborns)> But I thought I needed a better reason than "I WANT!!" before forking out the $$$$. Well, this thread has given me more than a few good ones! I know that REAL guitarists usually have a few instruments to choose from, for different styles of playing. The "this is the guitar I have" mode is wearing pretty thin ... and I could get a smaller scale one, with light strings, which might open up a whole new range of musical possibilities ... and then next year maybe I could get an electric too .... oooo I'm so excited!!

It's interesting to hear of so many acoustic players who use those complex bends. So much for putting the difficulty I'm having down to trying to force a 'lectric technique out of an acoustic instrument! ANd you're right Nick, I am afraid of not only breaking strings but slicing my fingers open every time I try too, which doesn't help ...

Oh and btw I tried the slide-bend combo - it does work, but you know what? It sounds like, well, like a slide-bend.   :-/ There's no way I know of to mask that little "bump" a slide makes ... where a bend is just so smooooooooooth as the pitch changes .... gads if I wasn't such a darn perfectionist about music and sound I'd have an easier life I'm sure! Tried a hammer-on-bend combo too, but that 'bump' is still pretty noticeable.

ANyway I'm off to bank some paycheques now ... and then to the music stores here to see who sells what in the line of small scale guitars. OH LUCKY DAY!!!!    :-)    (But I'll go to the guitar stores AFTER I pay the bills and hit the grocery store of course) Thanks again so much for the help and the ideas everyone .... and I'll be back! Guaranteed ...


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: C-flat
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 11:34 AM

Be warned Daylia, you're embarking on a long and torturous path, persuing elusive sounds and tones that will, with all certainty, result in you needing to build an extension to you home in order house the inevitable collection of guitars that will ensue!!!
You will regard them all as newborns and attempt to divide your time equally between them, and yet there will still be that persistant nagging self-doubt, eating away at your insides that "just one more" will complete you and enable you to fully explore the instrument in all its forms.
There are many sad examples here, on this very forum, and I urge you to seek help quickly.
If caught early, G.A.S.(guitar acquisition syndrome), can be managed and it is possible to lead a full and active life despite this dreadfully debilitating condition.
Good luck

C-flat (a fellow sufferer)


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: C-flat
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 11:38 AM

This article may be helpful.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: Nick
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:15 PM

daylia, your fingers can't be much smaller than mine, I'm sure. My longest finger on my left hand measures 8cm from palm to tip but it doesn't seem a barrier to play to the level I play (I'm above average but no expert) or to stop me playing a long scale bass!


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 01:42 PM

It would have been so simple--Daylia, if you simply told us what song you were trying to play and where in the song this critical note is--Then, any, and perhaps all of the folks who bothered to answer would have been able to tell you how to do what you want to do--

John Fogarty played a Richenbacker a lot of the time--Tom, from what I can tell(I've been checking out CCR photos instead of doing important work), played a Gretsch, and as some of y'uns know, those bad boys tended to feature a Bigsby, which would bend your notes farther and faster than about any other way--

So if you really want to play this song--let us know what song it is, and where the notorious bent note is--


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: *daylia*
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 02:32 PM

C flat - LOL!!   :-D   Love the link too! But me becoming debilitated by such a grave affliction as G.A.S.? NEVER!! (never mind that I "forgot" to mention I already own a couple classicals plus the Seagull acoustic ... oh never mind that at all! ... and denial is more than a river in egypt too ...)

But it looks like I'm saved for today, anyway. NO-ONE in town had a small scale guitar left to show me! Apparently a lot of folks buy them for travel guitars in the summertime. So I'll have to wait a bit ... but in the meantime, I saw a lot of Strats priced to clear today! I'd rather wait till I can afford better than the made-in-Mexico variety though ...

Nick, I just excitedly measured the 'bad' finger (as my little students call it!) on my left hand, thinking gee maybe I'm not that physically constrained after all!   I can stretch 7.45 cm from palm to tip. That's not so bad, huh?

M Ted, the flippin book I bought is FULL of those notorious bends, but just as an example, one that I've been fretting over lately is the first note in the first bar of the first lead guitar solo in Susie Q. You're supposed to bend the note E up to F# (from the G string 9th fret), then twice more in the following bar, followed by same + a reverse bend on the first beat of the next measure... and on and on ... (Willie's right he IS repetitive!   and I have the trenches in my fingers to prove it!)   

NOw that's only a 2-fret bend and I'm still always at least a quarter tone flat!   arrrrgghhhh   *sniff sniff*   ok that's it i'm through waffling around ... c'mon fingers .... we're going to practice some more ....


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: *daylia*
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 02:36 PM

oops sorry bout the small font


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 05 - 01:35 PM

Daylia asked a general question - see the first line of the opening post. All good answers - except for a "come back when you know the right question to ask " predictable one .....

I'd never be able to find the link again, but I read that the deep bends (and as an aside the tremolo effect as well) are more easily accomplished with the wrist than with the fingers ..... the fingers (two or three together for support) stay relatively locked in place and you push the string up with the rotation of the wrist...the wrist is a stronger bone or joint to push with than trying to push by flexing the fingers.

Here's one link that essentially says the same thing click here
..should work whether you're trying to play John Fogarty, John McLaughlin or John 5.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: *daylia*
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 08:14 AM

GUEST thanks a LOT for the link! Good explanation, even diagrams ...and yes till now I have been using just fingers. "Gripping the neck like a baseball bat" sheesh that's exactly what I warn my students about! I'll try the wrist thingie as soon as I'm finished with my piano students this morning ... piano is SO much easier to master, physically (at least in my experience)!


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: Nick
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 08:47 AM

Much more difficult to bend the notes though...


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 10:56 AM

I have posted this a whole bunch of times over the last few days, and every time I tried to post it, I got "Connection Refused" I hope it flies today---


Anyway, here's a couple points--first, from E to F# is one step, not one and a half steps--second, whatever the music might say to do, I've been listening to the CD, and he fingers an F# and bends the hell out of it, then drops to the E---


Anyway, what you should do is this--put your index finger on the B and G strings at the seventh fret-squeeze that first note, the F#, and bend it as   much as you can, so that it wails when you play it--then stretch your middle finger up to play the 9th fret on the G string for that E--then pull it off and you'll have a D--

Drop the index across a couple of the lower strings, and stretch up two or three frets with the middle and ring finger and you'll be able to reach all the notes in the solo and all those in the "Suzy Q" lick, as well--

There are a couple of other positions that you can play this in, but this is the easiest and allows you to do the most with the least movement--if this isn't where Fogarty plays it, it should be--(a lot of the other Fogarty stuff plays easily out of this position, as well)--

One important thing to remember, and that is that the recording, not the music, should be your reference--the reason being that very simple finger movements often look like an unplayable mess when they are converted into black dots, even when they are accurately notated(and they usually aren't)

Another thing to keep in mind is that guitarists tend play solos anchored in one position or another, and the relationship of the first few notes in a solo always will give you a pretty good idea what that position is--

Last, is that guitar players, being nothing if not creatures of habit, tend to favor a few or even one, positions for soloing-so it is pretty easy to figure out a lot of a guitarists solos once you've work out a couple of them in detail-(note: a lot of pop records use hired-gun studio guitarists, and sometimes there are two completely different kinds of solos in one tune, neither of which is in the style of the "lead" player)


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 11:04 AM

...take my advice about the same technique being used for the tremolo effect with a grain of salt ....I get the terms tremolo and vibrato mixed up ...there's a difference. - and I'm not too sure now that the same technique for bending is the same technique for vibrato or tremolo .... google it and see what comes up.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 11:26 AM

Nother thing to remember, there are lots of different ways to vary the pitch of a note on a guitar--you can bend it, use a vibrato, slide up to to it, hammer on, tap, stretch , detune, not to mention a few things that I can't think of the names for--any of which you can use when you play your version of the tune--


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 11:26 AM

these two photos feature John with the two mainstay choices of rock guitarists everywhere


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 11:36 AM

You're right, Guest, everbody loves a Danelectro--oh, and Note the Bigsby Vibrato Tailpiece on the LP--


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 11:48 AM

Here's a pretty good link to an article with John Fogerty in Vintage Guitar magazine re the guitars he's used throughout his career and how he got those awesome string bends (he used 3/4 scale guitars and light gauge strings)


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 01:01 PM

So--he *did* play SuzieQ on the Rickenbacker! Great article--it gives a lot of insight into what he plays, how he plays, and who he listens to--I've always thought that he, and CCR, and that sound are what rock is all about--


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: *daylia*
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:14 AM

WOW - thanks for the link again GUEST!   ANd for the fingering ideas, Ted. It works! :-) ... and with more practice I'll get it fast enough too. One thing's for sure - Fogerty did NOT create those awesome effects using a Seagull acoustic with medium guage strings!

I've always thought that he, and CCR, and that sound are what rock is all about--

Me too! I've loved that sound ever since I first heard it when I was in grade school ... in fact it was CCR ... and then Liona Boyd (if you can believe it, they're so different!) ... who set off a lifelong desire (more like NEED!) to play guitar in the first place.

Too bad the under-30 set doesn't seem to know or idolize CCR as much as, say, Led Zepplin or Pink Floyd or the Beatles. Yet, anyway. Maybe that's due to Fogerty's troubles with recording companies - there just haven't been many (if any!) re-makes of his classics in recent years. A couple have been used in movies (Bad Moon Rising, Fortunate Son) but none in the last few years that I can recall.

So many young'uns want to learn Deep Purple's "Smoke on the Water" now (Machine Head's the first album I ever bought .... and believe me I've heard it by now enough to last me several lifetimes but I do respect their "needs" and comply!). Or Zep's "Stairway to Heaven", or Amanda McBroom;s "The Rose" on the piano ... just because they heard it some recent movie! Well, now that Fogerty's re-signed with Fantasy Records we may be hearing more and more of his golden oldies too. I do hope so!


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 11:31 AM

just to add that if the solution is getting a 3/4 scale electric..

easy enough to find one on ebay..
price is no problem these days..


so many reasonably well made budget price 3/4 electrics now available
from various guitar brands,
marketed to kids and female players..

unlesss you can audition one in a shop,
if buying mail order, best to stick with a better known make.


i can personally recomend squier mini strats..

[got 2.. 1 in high nashville tuning.. 1 in mandola'ish tuning]

daisy rock guitars are also worth checking out
[despite the prejudices of male 'expert' guitarists]


and i gig with the samick range of 1/2 scale 'Greg Bennett'electrics

[cheap machine heads are the only components that 'need' upgrading


they offer excellent potential opportunites for recording

'how the hell did he do that' style

high octave lead solos..


ps.. best time to buy 'kids' scale guitars is just after xmas when catalogue shops are clearing out unsold stock..

and thousands of parents are terminally regreting buying them for their noisy little spoilt darling offspring..


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 01:21 PM

Thanks for buying the tips, Punkfolkrocker, I am going to save them--


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 03:08 PM

the current gregg bennett mini 1/2 scale range..


http://www.tech-mate.co.uk/acatalog/Minis.html


looks like the flying vee [ my favourite] has ben discontinued
in favour of a new kiddie metal monster..

[anyway.. i believe epiphone may still do a mini v ]


btw.. they tune A -> A


so gives the equivalent extra high octave range of about 27 frets..


.. before any bending..!!



still not as high as a danelectro guitarlin Guitar/Mandolin..

but then, no human guitar player has fingers thin enough to
play the highest frets on a guitarlin..

[i know that for sure.. yes.. i got one of them as well..]


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 09:57 PM

Listen to Marty Stuart for a lesson on string bending.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 09:28 AM

And I've copied your post out too, punkfolkrocker. Thanks so much! And hey ... is that really you, Martin???


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 03:27 PM

Glad I was able to provide some links that helped you with your bending note adventure. You're welcome, and best wishes *daylia* ...


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST,2 lips & roses
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 04:39 PM

http://www.daisyrock.com/


there u go gal


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 04:48 PM

Daylia, yes it's me. Just too lazy to sign in.


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Subject: RE: Bending Notes on Guitar
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 07:53 PM

Do you mean on "Hillbilly Rock"? Wasn't that done on his Gretsch Tennesean, with the Bigsby and a whole lot of flanging? Here's the URL for it--couldn't get it to make a blue clickie--

http://www.rollingstone.com/photos/gallery/image/_/image/2/imageSize/large/id/5394170/start/0/range/12/martystuart?pageid=rs.PhotosGalleryImage&pageregion=mainRegion


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