BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?

Subject: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:20 PM

My sister-in-law is here visiting and just read a recipe to me for plum pudding. There are no plums in it. What the hell kind of deal is that? Why is it called plum pudding then? Somwhow this question seems hul9lish. But I really would like to know. I am sure you Brits will: 1
             give a quick adequate explanation

             2
             explain it in such a manner that anyone who would even dare to question the name will feel like he is a complete dunce for ever asking it. Having said that, I hope to get an answer before I go to bed as I am sure I will never be able to sleep otherwise jimmyt

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:21 PM

"Why is Plum Pudding called Plum Pudding when there are no plums in it? In the 17th century, plums referred to raisins or other fruits. Plumb is another spelling of plum. Prune is actually derived from the same word as plum - the Latin word was pruna, which changed in the Germanic languages into pluma. But the terms were quite confused in the 16th and 17th centuries and people talked about growing prunes in their garden."

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:24 PM

you know all this from Alberta? Wow! I need to get out amongst the plums more. Thank you for the quick and lively explanation.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: bobad
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:26 PM

So why can't the Brits update their vocabulary?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:26 PM

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:SqAa_edsCU4J:whatscookingamerica.net/Cake/plumpuddingTips.htm+plum+pudding,+history&hl=en

Heck, jimmyt, I thought it was because they made the stuff outta lead. Always thought it was from the Latin--plumbum. Live and learn.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:29 PM

Hey jimmyt, Bobad had puffballs yesterday. Now, you KNOW that's gotta hurt, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:32 PM

Hell I had cheese balls and suffered for 2 weeks. Made my hands turn orange also!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:36 PM

One bag frozen meatballs--just think, that's only the START of the recipe. Jimmyt, it's all downhill from here . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: bobad
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:38 PM

And we haven't even brought up the spotted dick yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:39 PM

My GAWD.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:53 PM

Speak for yourself bobad I can assure you the spotted dick will make an appearance shortly

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 10:56 PM

Jayne and I were travelling through the New Forest last year and thought we would get a bite of lunch at the first opportunity. I kid you not, we came to a caravan park called Sandy Balls. Less that a mile later we stopped at the Cock for lunch, on the blackboard for dessert.you guessed it, Spotted Dick. This British imagery is amazing!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 11:03 PM

And then there's this.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 11:13 PM

I think I had that condition for a few days after meeting a fine young thing on a greyhound from Omaha to Cedar Rapids. A round of Amoxicillin and some blue ointment cleared it right up, but I couldn't ride my unicycle for 54 days.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 11:14 PM

Much prefer the puffballs (pumpkin pie guy).

I went to the old English standby, Mrs. Isabella Beeton, "The Book of Household Management," ("Six Hundred and Ninety-Third Thousand), 1888, first printed in 1861, Ward, Lock & Co., London.
Recipe numbers 1832-1837 are for "plum puddings." Baked plum puddings used 2 lb. raisins and 2 lb. currants. An "unrivaled " plum pudding used the same, as did a "Christmas" plum pudding.

The OED defines plum pudding as a pudding consisting of plums, but goes on to separate out "Christmas Plum Pudding," with the raisins. The recipe for the latter seems to have entered the books very early in the 18th c.

Peace haben recht.

(In the U. S. and Canada, the meaning is the same, except the process is often short-cut. Did I say the same? Often not really.)

Note: The small Corinthian raisins (from the grape) are sold dried in U. S. and Canadian grocery stores as currants. The real currant, no relation, is often found in jams and jellies- the fresh (real) currant is rarely sold in stores, you have to plant your own bushes.
I don't know if the UK sales practice is the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: bobad
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 11:22 PM

jimmy why get it from someone else when you can make your own!

Traditional Scottish Recipes
- "Auld Reekie" Cock-a-Leekie Soup

The "Auld Reekie" does not refer to the soup being "smokey" but to the origins of the recipe in Edinburgh which used to be called Auld Reekie in the days of coal fires. Cock-a-Leekie soup makes a regular appearance in Scottish kitchens but this variation has a special ingredient - Scotch whisky! It will, as the say, "stick to your ribs".

    Ingredients:
    3lb boiling chicken (giblets removed)
    3 slices of streaky bacon
    1lb shin of beef
    2 lb leeks
    1 large onion
    5 fluid ounces Scotch whisky
    4 pints water
    1 level tablespoon dried tarragon
    Salt and pepper
    8 pre-soaked prunes (optional but traditional!)

    Method:
    Mix the whisky, tarragon and sugar in the water. Chop up the bacon and place the chicken, bacon and beef in a large bowl and pour over the whisky marinade. Leave to soak overnight. Place the chicken etc in a large soup pot. Chop up the leeks (reserve one) and onion and add to the pot. Salt and pepper to taste. Bring to the boil, cover and simmer for two hors, removing any scum as required. Remove the chicken from the pot, remove skin and bones. Chop the meat into small pieces and return to the pot. Cut up the shin of beef, if required. Add the prunes and the last chopped leek and simmer for 10 to 15 minutes. It will serve up to eight people.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: GUEST,Takamine Yamaha
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 11:45 PM

Is there any meat in a minced meat pie?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 11:46 PM

and in Spotted dick is there any...spots?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 11:51 PM

Gor that matter, shouldn;t goldfish be really called Orange fish?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 11:59 PM

Thanks for the recipe. I will try it this weekend, but will use cut-up chicken, without skin, and pre-cook the bacon, to reduce fat. May not be trad, but must preserve our Jack Spratt figures.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 02:11 AM

I always thought it was 'cuz it was plum good. Live and learn.    Tw

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 02:46 AM

Spicy meat-and-fruit pies were traditionally baked for Christmas in England in times past. They were rectangular, to remind one of the manger, and the spices symbolized the gifts of the Magi.

One year, King Henry VIII's Christmas pies were being escorted to the castle by Jack Horner. The temptation was too great, and he thrust a finger into one, hoping to snag a plum. What he struck was paper—the title deeds to twelve manors that were secretly being transported inside the crust.

A nursery rhyme was born.

Elmer

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 04:05 AM

Ah Jimmy, I don't know if it's still there, but there used to be a Sandy Balls Nudist Camp. Makes the mind boggle doesn't it?
As for Bobad's wish that we might update our vocabulary, we are constantly updating it to include words like geek, and things like "Poke Salad??" Of course we already have a large, and apart from Amos, largely unused across the pond, vocabulary.;~)
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 07:19 AM

that's Clootie Dumpling (SCOTTISH)

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 08:03 AM

Is there any meat in a minced meat pie?

Not any more, most of the time anyway. Originally there was, mainly as suet, but it tends to be replaced by vegetable suet now.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 09:07 AM

Ah suet, so good for the duff, so bad for the arteries.
Plum Duff
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Micca
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 09:57 AM

jimmyt, a Nursery rhyme for wine buffs.

" Jack Spratt would eat no fat
his wife ate fat alone
so when she ordered "Cote du Porc"
he ordered "Cote du Rhone"

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: jimmyt
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 10:26 AM

SO. THen , Micca, she ordered Mayonnaise and he ordered Gigondas!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Micca
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 10:48 AM

more likely Maconnais!!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 12:12 PM

For Plum Duff read Figgy Duff for those who speak Canadia

Good band - toured UK in 1988/9

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 12:22 PM

I came across Figgy Duff, both the recipe and the Celtic Folk Rock group while Googling, neither of them have suet as an ingredient!
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: rumanci
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 12:24 PM

and nobody's even mentioned Sussex "Plum Heavy" yet ?
eh Giok ?
LOLOL

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 12:25 PM

Why you outlanders have a problem with English place names, or indeed any other, makes no sense at all.

A 'Cock' in the English language means 'Male Fowl' whats so funny about that? Ball is a common English surname, so whats the problem.

There used be a Pub someplace south of London - I can't recall the exact location - called 'The Cock And Ball' and that's only one of hundreds I have seen there. Courage Brewery - at one time a national supplier of beers in the UK - used a crowing cock as it's emblem. So come on, quit all this 'cock and bull' and lets be adults again!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 01:11 PM

A pub address :-

The Cock
Welwyn
Herts.


Don't blame me I didn't make it up!
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: JennyO
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 01:58 PM

Sounds like we're "plum"-ing the depths again...

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 03:59 PM

OK- why is English spoken in an upper crust (to keep to the culinary theme) fashion referred to as 'plummy'?

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 05:10 PM

Ref Ebbie's question...

'Plummy' is a reference to speaking with a plum in one's mouth - which is how some people reckon posh folk (presumably born with a silver spoon in their mouth!)sound when they talk.

LFF

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 09:06 PM

Are you joshing me, LFF? A plum? Why isn't it called 'marbley'? Be hard to wrap the vowels around a plum.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 09:18 PM

"Why is it called Plum Pudding?"

Ya daft bugger. It's called plum pudding because if you called it bacon and eggs no one would know what the hell to order in a restaurant.

"How would you like your eggs, sir?"

"Uh, I don't WANT eggs."

"Oh! You must want that pudding then."

"Uh, yes."

"OK, then."


"'enry, it's that daft bugger wot wants plum pudding."

"Oh. Don't give 'im bacon."

"I won't. Nor eggs."

"Good on ya."

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 09:20 PM

And you must know of the old song
"The Widow who keeps The Cock Inn"

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: jimmyt
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 10:33 PM

Hey Sorefingers, I am just having a bit of fun here, as are the other folks who have participated. I hope you can understand a bit of well intended fun. No harm intended. the old outlander himself, jimmyt

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 10:36 PM

Hey, jimmyt. In the vernacular, "What it is?"

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 10:45 PM

Cock Pond
Tyttenhanger
Titsey Park
Herbert's Hole
Nasty
Thong

jimmyt, take note of the last on the list of some English places.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 10:49 PM

A site worth checking.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: jimmyt
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 10:54 PM

excellent site there Peacekeeper!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 11:00 PM

Love this one . . . . but it's a bit off topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 02:17 AM

Ebbie - I kid you not. My concise dictioanry of slang gives that definition for plum in the mouth, and plummy as a derivation. It also says that in Glasgow from about 1920 plummy has been used to mean dull; stupid: too respectable, possibly deriving from the Yorkshire plum, honest, straight-forward.

The lovely site Peace found might have one or two inaccuracies -I've never heard of Big Knockerstown in the UK, nor has Multimap! Mind you, when I popped the name into Google, it asked if I was really searching for Big Knickers Down...

LFF

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 02:28 AM

The mind boggles...

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 09:48 AM

I used to boggle, but that Blue Ointment fixed me up.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 10:33 AM

Check out "Sam Small's Christmas Pudding" in DT

Subject: RE: BS: Why is it called Plum Pudding?
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 02:13 PM

Ya know, I always thought that it was called that 'cause if you took someone else's, you got kicked in the plums.