BS: where is the Fall Foliage?

Subject: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: MMario
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 10:51 AM

Where the heck is the fall foliage? As I drove to work this morning there was diddly-squat. The virginia creeper hasn't turned, the Sumac hasn't turned, there are minor spots of colour - but *nothing* like normal. Usually "peak" foliage season for this sectionb of NY falls somewhere in the first two weeks of October - but it is preceeded by several weeks of "spotty" change. Heck, some years the creeper and Sumac is brilliant red by the end of AUGUST!

Where's the colour?

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 11:04 AM

The mountain maple has slashed the sides of the hills with scarlet as brilliant as blood on a pure white bandage. The yellow of the aspen hasn't yet mingled with the scarlet, but it will any time now, as the first fall of termination dust gleamed like diamonds on the mountains in this morning's sun. And the dark green of the juniper and pine agree well with the silver green of the sage.

Drop around.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Janie
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 11:19 AM

Here in the "Southern Part of Heaven" it has been so dry for so long that some leaves are simply browning and dropping. We also haven't even had any cool weather, much less a frost. I don't think we are going to have much color in these parts this fall. I'm beginning to wonder if we are going to have "fall" at all.

Janie;<(

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: kendall
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 11:25 AM

Global warming?

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: MMario
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 11:25 AM

no frost predicted for us until *maybe* the end of next week. we're supposed to get some 80 degree days this week!

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Janie
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 11:32 AM

That's what I'm wondering, Kendall.

Leo--what is your average first frost date?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: MMario
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 11:37 AM

Sept. 20-something for average first frost - or do you mean first "killing frost"?
which is October something I believe.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Janie
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 12:09 PM

Leo, either one or both (which you gave me.) Of course, where I live we grow a lot of things that are basically tropical or subtropical. The first frost, whether it is heavy or not, kills a bunch of stuff to the ground.

Our average first frost date is mid October. Hard frost may not come until December.

Weird weather year about everywhere, I think. Seems like our seasons and climate are increasingly unpredictable--no such thing as "normal" anymore. I'm more and more convinced we are undergoing significant climate change.

Think we should bring long johns AND swimsuits to the Getaway?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 12:46 PM

I just checked the long rang weather forecast for Darlington, Maryland (Is that the closest weather station?) and it supposedly will remain very warm there until October 12th, when it cools into the 60s... Does that mean that the trend will continue and by the weekend the temperatures will be in the 40s-50s? Oh, woe is me.

Juneau temps currently range from lows of 30 degrees to highs of 55-60. However, I don't sit around outdoors; brisk walking is encouraged.

By the way, our colors are bright this year, interspersed among our conifers. The leaves are dry and brittle and make a wonderful scuffly sound.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 12:51 PM

Our temps too, Ebbie.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 01:18 PM

Its peaking way upstate in NY.

In MD there is really no trace of color. We have had times when the trees were bare by Halloween and times when the leaves still up after Thanksgiving.

During the hurricaines we had no chem trails in the sky at all for over 2 weeks.
Now they are back and more numerous than usual with pale blue grey skies as they spread out.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 02:33 PM

Years ago in school I was told that to get beautiful fall colors we need warm days and chilly nights. The warm days would encourage chemical activity in the leaves, and the chilly nights would reduce chlorophyll, letting the minor, and colorful, components be seen.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: MarkS
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 02:45 PM

Still too dry and too warm here in New Jersey. We will probably get nothing but a quick browning and fall without any color to speak of.
I recall you need a spell of rain at just the right time before the change for the colors to be really spectacular.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 02:57 PM

It's starting to turn pretty here in the UK... Micca's virgina creeper is blushing red in the sun, mine is still green as grass. I'm driving down to the proper country tomorrow so I shall look out for the bracken turning gold as I go over the heathland in the New Forest.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 04:25 PM

If the fall colours could wait a week or two and temperatures stay high I'd be very happy!

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: MMario
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 04:27 PM

But we want the best of both worlds for your visit - Peak Autumn colour AND Indian Summer.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 12:48 AM

KT informs me that the only crunchy, scuffly leaves I found the other day were those that she had attacked with her hair dryer. She claims that the only dry, brittle leaves around here are those on the basil plant in her kitchen.

She would like more - much more - sun. She is a bitter woman.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 09:15 AM

We haven't had much rain here in New Jersey for a while, and some trees here are shedding leaves without changing color. But my asters are blooming, and that makes up for the lack of leaf color.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: jaze
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 09:30 AM

Oh Liz, that sounds so poetic. Can I come for the ride?

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Janie
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 10:14 AM

On the way into Camp Ramblewood, there is a house that always has an incredible bank of mixed chrysanthemums right along a stone wall on the road. I always look for it. I am not a big mum fan, but this is truly lovely. Keep your eyes peeled if you ae going to the Getaway!

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 05:03 PM

We are getting it going around here, in any case. The maples are working the whole spectrum: some die-hard maple leaves remain green while others go yellow or red. Those vine leaves are flaming as well.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 05:18 PM

Far too warm here in Eastern England for any autumn foliage yet.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 07:39 PM

0 in DC

This year being the hottest global average temp in written history,
Kendal was right ahead of time.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Stu
Date: 04 Oct 16 - 10:30 AM

Here in the lea of the Peak District the colours are starting nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 16 - 10:43 AM

A good frost is paramount when it comes to autumn colour. One of the few downsides of living in Cornwall is that we rarely get frost in autumn. By the time we get a good chill we've had a gale or two and most of the leaves have gone (a lot of 'em into my leafmould heap). Good crops of berries this year to keep the birds going. My flower garden is still looking pretty good.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: bbc
Date: 04 Oct 16 - 11:10 AM

In the U.S.--starting in Connecticut, Massachusetts, & New York. Lovely!

Barbara

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Oct 16 - 12:31 PM

We have noticed a good crop of berries here too Steve. Do you think it means we shall have a hard winter after the long, hot summer?
(I've just ordered some more heating oil, just in case!)

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 16 - 04:36 PM

Leaves turn colour based on the amount of daylight per day but warm temperatures can delay the turn for about a week, tops. Please note that Mother Nature has her own calendar and the full moon is shortly after midnight on the 16th. I don't know if she is a member of Mudcat or not. If so, PM her and ask.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Charmion
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 10:36 AM

No frost here, yet -- most unusual. Normally, the first frost comes on the heels of the Equinox. Today's forecast high is 24 Celsius -- unheard-of.

Thanks for the datum on what triggers the change of colour, gnu. Now, why does my neighbour's ornamental cherry start turning red in August? (My money's on air pollution; the poor thing is downwind of three bus stops serving three routes.)

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 10:52 AM

A good berry crop is simply a sign that the trees have had a good spring and summer with excellent pollination success. Nothing else!

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 11:07 AM

Whilst gnu is correct in linking daylight to leaf-fall, according to species there is considerable environmental input when it comes to colour. Water availability, or lack of it, in summer and low autumn temperatures can have an impact on colour. A tree sheds leaves in autumn because they would be a liability in winter - too little light to help them to do their job, too much exposure to damage caused by severe weather, worsened physiological drought caused by water loss from leaves in hard frosts, fully-laden trees more susceptible to being blown down, etc. Trees that keep their leaves in winter have strategies such as waxy leaf cuticles, thick epidermises, sunken stomata and reduced individual leaf area (though more actual leaves, as in conifers). Their branches may be so disposed as to shed snow more easily. Obviously, not having to replace all your leaves at once in spring saves energy. Evergreen trees do lose leaves but in a constant trickle. Leaf-fall is also the way trees get rid of some waste products such as tannins and calcium oxalate. Leaf-fall is a tree's way of going to the toilet. They get away with doing it in public in a way that neither you nor I ever could.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 11:08 AM

I meant daylength, not daylight, in my first line. Damn that autocorrect rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 06:35 PM

Today there was a metal rake for dead leaves, lying smack dab in the middle of my lane on the highway. Thankfully my car was able to pass over the rake with the tires on either side of the tines...

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 07:37 PM

I never let dead leaves lie. I rake them up ad stack them, though not on their own which would mean waiting at least two years for usable leaf mould. I stack the leaves with the abundant grass clippings that my large garden yields. That way, I get a really good compost in six months. Bob Flowerdew calls it accelerated leaf mould. I have access to abundant leaves and so much lawn clipping that it's my chief source of organic matter. Can't afford to be lazy in autumn - gotta get out there and rake up them leaves!

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: leeneia
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 01:57 PM

Last year the DH and I took a foliage cruise on the Hudson. The colors were wonderful. The cruise took place at the end of October, not the beginning.

When I was a kid, I learned that warm days and cool nights produce the best colors.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 02:38 PM

Oh I just love Bob Flowerdew Steve. He used to be on Gardeners' Question Time on Radio 4 (He may still be) Very organic in his methods.
He also has a rather nice long plait.
Doesn't he live in Norfolk somewhere? (I ought to know, as I live there myself!)

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 02:42 PM

Just looked it up. Yes, he lives in Dickleburgh, South Norfolk.

(All the best people live here you know)

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 04:33 PM

Norfolk 'n' good, eh? 😉

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 05:56 PM

Hahaha! Yes, we're Norfolk n' good Steve!

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Sep 18 - 12:45 PM

Today for the first time
I noticed that one maple tree
is furtively sporting some of those intense dark red leaves
in the midst of a full green foliage.

The summer stayed so hot for so long, and humid as well,
that signs of autumn are doubly welcome here.

The nights are now cooling down, so that will help bring in
the autumn colors on the trees.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Iains
Date: 20 Sep 18 - 01:33 PM

Most of the fall foliage near me has gone a good few miles down the road after the recent gales. Some species of tree started changing colour back in August, presumably from heat and drought stress.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: JennieG
Date: 20 Sep 18 - 06:28 PM

In Ontario, Canada - I am hoping! We'll be there in less than a fortnight.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Sep 18 - 07:41 PM

Dang. I was planning to make a drive across the U.S. to see the foliage this year, but I ended up with obligations that made me cancel the trip.

We do have some fall color here in California, but not like "Back East." The aspens in the eastern Sierra are a spectacular yellow, and the cities have some ornamental trees that turn pretty colors. My Japanese maples will be very nice.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: ranger1
Date: 22 Sep 18 - 08:30 AM

Joe, it's not going to be a superb foliage year, so don't feel bad. Drought conditions in the Northeast for most of the spring and summer are going to cause things to be fairly drab here. We're getting a lot of leaf drop before it changes color, or the leaves are going straight to brown. We'll see some color, but nothing like we would have if we'd had decent rainfall.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Sep 18 - 09:51 AM

The leaves are beginning to fall without making much color change here, but then North Texas isn't noted for it's colorful autumn weather.

The most amazing autumn color I saw on a road trip, Joe, was when I drove from Texas to Washington, taking various secondary state highways past national parks. By the time I got to Colorado's Berthoud Pass (whew!) via Route 40 and heading through Utah to Dinosaur and other parks, I was seeing glorious high plateau stands of birch or aspen with white trunks and vivid yellow along the edges of rivers or lakes. I cut over to 395 in Northern California and 139 to 39 to stay on the high plains to the east of Lassen and Shasta and the incredible beauty of those high elevation lakes and forests. I'm pretty sure that was the trip where I also went up through Central Oregon, east of the Cascades, and at Goldendale, Washington, headed up over Blewett Pass that was simply perfect, no other traffic, glorious sunny day, black road with bright yellow lines and trees that were just as yellow as the stripe, but living things stirring in the light breeze in all their glory. I finally joined up with I-90 and headed over Snoqualmie into Seattle. I must have made this drive in about 1983, so some things will have changed along the route, but the terrain, the season, the routes are all still there. Think about a tour like that, Joe.

I didn't take any photos, I wanted to just look at it all and remember the beauty. Sometimes when you mediate through a lens the memories aren't as clear because you're unintentionally letting the film do your remembering.

Another perk of visiting Dinosaur that time of year - it was empty. And I drove up to a picnic area (I can't find it on the map but the drive off of the highway of a mile or so took me to a perch perhaps 1000 feet above the valley) where there was no sound. Nothing. No wind, no birds, no insects, no other people. It was like a roar in my ears, my brain trying to hear something up there. My own breathing, my footsteps, sounds as I prepared lunch. As I continued the drive it was hunting season so I was careful as I drove into the Heber City area and through that canyon, there were lots of trucks and hunters in orange vests. I had my fingers crossed that none of them would be shooting near or across the highway.

Perhaps next time I head up to Washington I'll try to reproduce that route.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Sep 18 - 10:58 AM

The fall foliage is on the trees, except for the bits of it that need sweeping off our deck.

Save a couple of years in Germany, I have lived my whole life in areas so noted for fall colour that in October the roads are cluttered with tour buses loaded with leaf-peepers. I enjoy the colours on a sunny day like today, but sooner or later the wind and rain bring the leaves down in slimy heaps on the deck and the driveway.

Like they say, sic transit gloria mundi, which can be translated: Today's tourist attraction, tomorrow's housekeeping problem.

Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Sep 18 - 04:25 PM

An FDR era road called Skyline drive is the place us leaf peepers go.
There are no houses there.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 06:35 PM

What with all the rain of the last weeks,
seems the Northeast is making up for lost time.
Things are intensely green hereabouts.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 06:48 PM

I've driven through the hardwood forests in Arkanasas, in Kentucky, in Pennsylvania various years, and up in the Catskills and out on Long Island other years and been there in time for wonderful fall color. Good thing they're spread out so not everyone and his brother ends up on the National Park roadways.

Subject: RE: BS: where is the Fall Foliage?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 07:01 PM

Rap, blood and diamonds are not my thing. Stained bandages YUCK