Marching Songs (not cadences)

Subject: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Musique174
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 04:50 PM

I have been asked to suggest a Song or two that would work to sing as they march. This is a re-enacting group that portrays Queen Elizabeth's Military. They are looking for a song that they could sing and march along the road to.

I could only think of: GaryOwen & High Germany

Does any one else know a song with a steady beat that would work for something like this. It doesn't have to be that old, just sound like it, as words can always be adapted.

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 05:21 PM

The British Grenadiers.
Tramp, Tramp, Tramp (Along the By-way).
These two are what come to mind right now.

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: The Walrus
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 05:37 PM

What cadence are they marching to?
Modern forces march at about 120 paces/min but, for instance, Georian and early Victorians went in for about 80 paces/min (easier to control a formation on broken ground).
Almost any singable tune (ok, maybe not 'patter' songs)can be adapted for marching, I've had a squad swining along quite happily to "A Little Bit of Cucumber" (1913 Music Hall number).
If you are marching slowly, try "The Agincourt Anthem" ('Our King came forth to Normandy etc') or even "Greensleeves".
"Lillibullero" would probably work for either cadence, as would "Over The Hills and Far Away" and "The Liconshire Poacher" was adapted as March , as was "D'Ye Ken John Peel".

W

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 05:45 PM

Oh, Walrus, I have heard that the brutal and licentious soldiery can be pigs when they try, but do they even swine along on the march?

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: The Walrus
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 05:46 PM

Charmion,

Just put enough beer in front of them and watch them pig out.

W

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 06:39 PM

Johnny Comes Marching Home
Scotland the Brave

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 08:41 PM

Darby Kelly?

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 04:56 AM

I don't know what was usual in ER I's time, but are you sure HMO soldiery marched in step? And singing withal?
On the continent [i.e. in real Europe] marching in step was introduced long after the 30 year's war, and singing mostly took place after a day's work, around the camp fire with a bumper in your hand.

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 04:58 AM

Oh, and by the way - Sorcha, are you kidding? Scotland the brave? Why not a song in praise of Mary Stewart, Queen of Scots?

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 05:07 AM

Wilfired, the Victorian army (and onwards), unlike the Continentals, wasn't a singing army. On the march, sure, but hardly around the campfire. See Farwell's "Mr Kipling's Army".
George macDonald Fraser, writing about his days in WW2 Burma, recalls only one instance ever when they did so.
Regiments with large number of Welsh may be the exception, but I'm not sure.

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 05:33 AM

Mrs McGrath: "In the years 1913-1916 it was the most popular marching song of the Irish Volunteers. I learnt it on route marches.(Colm O Lochlainn, Irish Street Ballads, 1939.)

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 05:47 AM

Fair Maid of Fyvie (or Derby) would go well.

Over The Hills And Far Away is a very old soldiers song

Keith.

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Charmion
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 09:37 AM

Look at the march-pasts of the British regiments: they are mostly folk songs from the regiments' original recruiting areas. However, you will also find that most of them cannot possibly date from before (say) 1750. The earliest item in "Songs and Music of the Redcoats" is a metrical psalm attributed to Cromwell's New Model Army.

I agree with Wilfried; marching in step and singing to keep step doesn't strike me as likely for an Elizabethan war band. That said, "We be soldiers three" would be both contemporary and appropriate. It can be sung briskly or slowly, soulfully or raucously:

We be soldiers three
Pardonnez-moi, je vois en prie,
But lately come forth of the Low Countries,
With never a penny of money.

And he who will not drink to this,
Pardonnez-moi, je vous en prie,
Will pay for the shot, whatever it is,
With never a penny of money.

We be, etc.

Charge it again boys, charge it again,
Pardonnez-moi, je vous en prie,
Until you have no more ink in your pen,
With never a penny of money.

We be, etc.

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: PeteBoom
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 09:56 AM

Presuming you mean 'Liz I, as opposed to II (current Queen), most of these listed are far too modern. I have a feeling that most of the "Over the Hills and Far Away" suggestions are focusing on one (or more) of the variants of The Recruiting Sergeant, which if I recall, the oldest version I know of dates from Queen Anne - old but not quite 16th century.

Wilfried's question about marching and singing is worth considering as well.

On top of that, Scotland the Brave (I don't think it actually existed at the time) or any Scottish song would not have been sung - for one thing, the two countries were still, well, non-united Kingdoms if you catch my meaning. If you recall, Mary was held and eventually executed to prevent her from asserting her claim to the English throne, so songs about her would almost certainly never be sung by English soldiers.

Now, Border ballads, possibly, Northumbrian type for some regiments, but as a general rule, I'd be leary of passing them off as historicaly true.

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 05:25 PM

The request was about tunes. There'd be no problem knocking together an English set of words for Scotland the Brave (aka O'Donnell Abu when its in Ireland.)
..............................

"It was a lover and his lass" could serve well as a marching song.

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 05:37 PM

The request was about songs.
"I have been asked to suggest a Song or two that would work to sing as they march. This is a re-enacting group that portrays Queen Elizabeth's Military. They are looking for a song that they could sing and march along the road to."

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 07:18 PM

...but it goes on to say "words can always be adapted."

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Rumncoke
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 11:41 PM

When I was with John Lilburn's regiment of Musket and Pike, (English civil war reenactors) marching in modern military fashion was discouraged, that is line abreast, but a drummer was usually ordered to 'give the time' for the pace of the march up to the field of battle. Although there were quite a few of the Lilburns who came to the folk club they did not sing on the march and although the evenings drinking usually began with such things as 'When the king comes to his own again' the age of the songs reduced quite quickly.   

There was the English march - which is just drum rhythms, and John Gwyn's air, but I don't know how far - if at all they can be traced back from the 1640s.

Anne

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Flash Company
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 04:39 AM

Who'll be a hero for Marlbro' and me? (Tune of Waltzing Matilda) is a few centuries out I guess.
How about 'I'm 'Enery the eighth, I am'

I'll get me coat.....

FC

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: The Walrus
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 03:30 PM

If marching at the slow cadence, your group could always try "The Owl" ("Of all the brave bird that e're I did see...") or "How Stands the Glass Around" - Both are a little late (17th/18th C) but contain no "easily datable" references.

See if you can get hold of a copy of "Songs and Music of the Redcoats" and of "The Rambling Soldier", there might be something in there which may help.

W

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 02:42 AM

Here's some songs used in RenFairs but no tunes given.
http://www.renfaire.com/Language/songs.html

Try googling 'Elizabethan Songs'.

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: R. Padgett
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:20 AM

Nellie Dean was sung as a marching song/tune

One of our club members used to sing it. He joined up with the Yorkshire Light Infantry and then became a Sergeant(he said) in the Black Watch (his name was Les Sanderson)at the outbreak of the second World war

The song was Nellie Dean and had been slightly adapted to fit the marching tempo

There's an Old Mill That stands by a Stream, Nellie Dean, Nellie Dean
Where we use to sit alone and dream Nellie Nellie
And the Water as it softy flows it seems to murmur sweet and low
You're my hearts delight I love you so Nellie Dean Nellie Dean

He had an extra item for the lads which fitted in somewhere
about 'where I burst your jelly been sweet Nellie Dean'

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Micca
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:23 AM

I'm surprised that No one has mentioned "Rogues March"
Music is here
scroll to music page and then down to the Title and there are the dots
and the Words are Here

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: stallion
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 04:34 PM

there is a copy of "songs and Music of the redcoats" in the library at cecil sharpe house, one may photo copy a limited amount( one or two pages) quite reasonably.
peter

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:06 AM

The Rogue'sMarch: too young for Elizabethan times (fighting the Russians).

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: CET
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 08:47 AM

Marching in step would almost certainly be anachronistic for an Elizabethan military re-enactment group, but I can imagine them singing something as they walked along. A good song has a way of keeping you going when your feet hurt. The difficulty is going to be finding songs that do date from the right era, and might possibly have been sung on the march. There have been a lot of good songs suggested, but most of them don't fit the bill. A lot of the Renfaire songs date from long after the Renaissance (Three Drunken Maidens, egad!) Of course, if you're not worried about anachronism...

Subject: RE: Marching Songs (not cadences)
From: The Walrus
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 12:11 PM

May I point to the last lines of the initial post of this thread.

"...Does any one else know a song with a steady beat that would work for something like this. It doesn't have to be that old, just sound like it, as words can always be adapted..."
(My italics)

If the group had decided to stick with purely Elizabethan music, I fear they would be in for very slim pickings.


Re: "Rogues' March"
It certainly pre-dates war against the Russians.
I think you will find that, with the exception of the verse "Fifty I got" and the "Poor Old Soldier" chorus, the rest of the song is a back formation - someone adding their own (modern) lyrics.
The tune is a march for a man under punishment, I suspect that the words were added for the musicians to remember the melody and rhythm, in the same way that buglers and drummers have rhymes to remember their calls (or did, up to 30 years ago).

W