BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester

Subject: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Pied Piper
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 12:05 PM

Those nice people in the IRA namely one "Slab" Murphy are attempting to redress the balance of murdering children in Warrington and bombing Manchester by laundering the proceeds from bank robbery and cross border profiteering, in Manchester. This so that Slab and the rest of the idealist "freedom fighters" can have a nice comfortable retirement in Eire.

Bless

PP

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 01:40 PM

So, have the sub-Marxist IRA embrace the property market?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 04:12 PM

I note gerry addams' opinion on the matter "it is clearly a poltical move". But on the bright side it beats the hell out of bombing us. It would be realy ironic if they turn out to be "investing" in properties that were damaged in the "Manchester Bomb".

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 05:09 PM

Oh dear Pied Piper you seem annoyed, sorry Tom who I happen to know has not been in court yet on a charge. As to the Northern Bank raid none of our boys have been in court regarding that case either. And thanks our volunteers are doing just fine in their retirement. As to kids being murdered, did you ever attend any of the funerals of those that you happen to mention ? I guess not you are just a little talker. I have been to many funerals of children murdered by your British soldiers here in Belfast.Go away son and try another thread.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 06:30 PM

It's heartwarming to see boys have somewhere to meet once they outgrow the secret seven.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Jimmy C
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 10:14 PM

Pied Piper and Clogger,
If the bombs had not gone off in mainland England would you have had any interest in what was happening on the streets of Ireland ?. You all just don't get it. we were left unnoticed, abandoned and subjected to bigotry, insults, and discrimination both in jobs and housing by an anti-catholic and anti-irish political system for nearly half a century. This all happened under the noses of OUR GOVERNMENT Nobody cared and nobody gave a damn, as long as the killings were in Ireland it was passed over just like the sports section in a local paper. The only way to get the attention of the Westminister government was to take it to their own doorstep. It is heartbreaking that children had to die, it's sad that anyone had o die, nobody in the world wants these things to happen, especially to the young, but children were dying in Ireland and we did not hear too many complaints from across the pond. Pay heed to what Divis said, every word is true.
By the way, what happened about that big bank robbery anyway - NOTHING. IT just vanished off the front pages as fast as it appeared. Nobody charged, no real proof of who was responsible, just insinuations. Of course the front pages were required to report the McCartney killing, yet the Jim Gray murder was reported on page 56 of my morning paper under items from around the world.
There was a parallel thread about some mudcatters being anti-irish, now where would one get such an idea ?.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 04:33 AM

There was a parallel thread about some mudcatters being anti-irish, now where would one get such an idea ?.

Wrong, JimmyC. I started that thread. I know what it was about. I started it because of a comment by one of the 'Tirs' that the average Brit was anti-Irish. I think it was proven without reasonable doubt that there is no such thing as the 'average Brit' and that in general the people of England are not anti-Irish. Incidentaly, I find it odd that we have seen neither of the Tirs recently but Divis Sweeney seems to have be giving an identical message. Not saying there is anything sinister. Just odd;-)

What I have also noticed is that in any thread mentioning the Irish, and probably some that don't, a lot of Irish and Irish/American mudcatters take the opportunity to slag off ther English. If we look at some of the recent threads I think you will find that anti-English comments are in far greater abundance than anti-Irish ones.

But, as I said on the anti-English thread, us English are a bit thicker skinned (and yes, before you say it, a bit thicker!) than some others and I, for one, couldn't care lass about petty vindictiveness on an internet discussion forum. I have a more interesting life outside the mudcat where people of all races sing folk music, get on with each other and don't get off on scoring political points:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 04:57 AM

...and as to I have been to many funerals of children murdered by your British soldiers here in Belfast.

Lets go to the Sutton index of deaths in Northern Ireland.

People 0-16 killed by British security. 39
People 0-16 killed by republican paramilitary. 61.

I post the above without comment.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Pied Piper
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 05:57 AM

The usual suspects with the usual logic, Wrong + Wrong = Right.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 07:11 AM

Already this story has been taken off the BBC and ITV screens, the head of the Assests Recovery Agency is former RUC Assistant Chief Constable Alan McQuillian , it is not the first time republicans have clashed with McQuillian, in 2002 he blamed the IRA for operating a spy ring at Stormont which resulted in the Unionists withdrawing from the power sharing agreement.

He also linked the Provos to the break-in at Castlereagh Police complex in east Belfast also in 2002, prior to which he claimed Republicans had been planning a major riot, none of the charges were ever proven or anyone arrestet.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Jimmy C
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 08:14 AM

Dave,

You are correct of course, but in my post I said "some mudcatters' not all and not most ?.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 08:24 AM

I know I am going to regret getting involved in this but.....


It has been extremely difficult to gather evidence in criminal cases in the north of Ireland because para-militaries, criminals and governemnts have intimidatedd potential witnesses so effectively.

It is not surprising that few cases actually get to court

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 10:41 AM

I notice that 'Div ' Sweeney always uses the collective ' we ' or inclusive ' our ' is he really one of them ? or just another idle boaster ?

Planting bombs in waste bins to kill children isn't a very brave or noble noble thing, or anything to brag about.

And why does he never contribute to music threads ?

eric

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 11:24 AM

Up until now the Assets Republican Army has moved mainly against loyalist gangsters, confiscating ill gotten houses, BMWs, ice cream vans etc and there were loyalist moans about it not being even handed!                                                            

Crime is't sectarian, it's crime.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 11:27 AM

eric the red. Why is that what you have to do to get into your gang? list musical rants ? My taste is Jimi Hendrix, Curved Air and Motorhead. And we did a lot more than plant bombs in litter bins. And I am very proud of the work our boys did.And no I am no idle boaster. Next question.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 11:46 AM

Jimmy C I do not deny that you had to get yourselves noticed to get the rights that you so obviously deserve.
It's the methods that many Catholics have been persuaded by those wishing to take criminal advantage of the troubles have told them were necessary. I don't agree that all the killing was necessary, as killing is always unjustifiable, and I don't agree that you lacked a large amount of sympathy on mainland Britain.
Why did they never take their campaign of violence and intimidation down south, so that the Irish government might be prevailed upon to intercede on their behalf, they didn't seem to say much to support their fellow Catholics in the north that I heard of, and if they did they didn't say it loud enough.
I'm glad a new step has been made on the path to a united Ireland, and agree that it is long overdue.
As for investing in Manchester it's just as well someone has!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 01:08 PM

I've posted this before, but it seems important to post again. Not all Irish Republicans are Catholic, and not all Unionists are Protestant. So, if we are discussing Irish Republicans or Unionists, let's use those terms instead of Catholic or Protestant. Thanks! :)

E

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 01:30 PM

Sorry very remiss of me, please read this which shows that some of the earliest home rulers were indeed Protestants.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 01:46 PM

Epona so glad to see you back, great post as always, they just don't understand. You made a very valid point here.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 01:48 PM

Very true, there were many protestants within the ranks of the PIRA.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 02:07 PM

Divis: you're confusing the IRA with the United Irishmen, probably wishfully.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 02:35 PM

Sorry guest, I wasn't born in 1798. There were many within the ranks. And locally I know three Catkolics within the ranks of the L.V.F. ! When I say I know them, I know off them. There is an ex RUC member and ex Orange Order member a Sinn Fein Councillor ! The late Billy Wright of the LVF Was reared a Catholic and went to a Catholic school and played Gaelic Football in Mount Norse !

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 02:57 AM

Remember folks, we're dealing with the Irish.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 05:34 AM

Divis, what is it about ' an on line magazine dedicated to blues and folk music ' that you didn't understand ?

eric

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 05:41 AM

He's a fan of The Dubliners.
G..

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:07 AM

So am I.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:58 AM

Eric, I fully understand about the blues and folk mag, the points I see which require answers are in this section. Or would you prefer me to go away and you can all have it your way, without Irishmen giving you the answers ?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Tirghra
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:46 AM

It's easier to hold on to what one knows than to challenge your own beliefs, wouldn't you say, Divis? I don't think they want your answers as they'd just prefer to hold on to the ones they've been spoon-fed. It's much easier and that way they can avoid the messiness of the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:13 AM

Nah Divis, I'd rather have you here than not, it's a hoary old saying but, I might disagree with everything you say, but I'd defend to the death your right to say it.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 11:36 AM

Thanks Eric.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Another Guest
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 12:57 PM

Let's get this straight - killing Irish people and discriminating against Catholics in N. Ireland in the 60s was wrong; the British government of the time was wrong to ignore it; killing innocent people in N. Ireland and mainland Britain was wrong - adding wrongs together never makes a right.

I have always believed that the Manchester bomb of 1996 was some sort of conspiracy. The section of the city that was blown up was exactly that part that needed to be re-developed in order that the city centre could compete with the Trafford Centre. Anything connected with planning and development, in this country, is so murky and corrupt that anything is possible.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 03:31 PM

Sweeney, I am curious too.
What made you want to be part of this forum?
Why do you care what a lot of folkies talk about?
Do you post your opinions on many other forums (fora?)?
Is it because of the cease fire?
Nothing else to do?
Seriously, I can't imagine anyone coming here without running through the music forum first. If that were not here you would be on your own!

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 03:32 PM

Agreed, loss of any life is a regret. Whoever they may be. And I do not disagree with you regarding the 96 bomb, anything is possible.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 03:41 PM

Keith, you suprise me!!! If the cat was only for folkies, then the BS portion wouldn't be here. That's what's nice about the cat: it's here for everyone, not just one group! :) Folkies and all.

E

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: ard mhacha
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 03:57 PM

I am so lucky to be very informative on all music ,Pop being the exception, otherwise the limeys would after me as well.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:07 PM

Epona,
I think you are wrong (not sure though)
I do think that everyone else is here for the folk first, and then the BS
Why would a non folkie log on in the first place?
I don't mind. I just don't get it.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:13 PM

Never have explored the music threads...not once. I joined for the discussion on the BS threads, for the chance to learn things that I had not been exposed to before. So, no, not everyone is here for the folk first, though it's definitely possible that many are! I hope this helps explains some of our presence (non-folkies in mudcat land).

E

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:37 PM

If your not saying the right things then you shouldn't be on it. So why have this section ? It was recently brought to my attention via a friend. So sorry no interest at all in Blues, folk, jazz, country, gospel of diddle dee music. So am I barred ? It would appear its fine to open a thread about the PIRA such as robberies, weapons, this cock and bull story about Manchester, but not for anyone to answer them if they don't share the view of the thread ? Sorry guys attack PIRA and I will reply. In a gentlemanly fashion of course.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:47 PM

If people join for the crack (English spelling - please note;-) ) and then go on to find out a bit more about proper music then all the better:-D

Nice to see you btw Epona - How's the lone star state? Hope you are fully recovered and mobile again.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:50 PM

I do enjoy the craic here, thanks Dave. Everything is well here and I'm doing much better, thanks! Takes more than a smashed car to keep me down!
:)
E

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:02 PM

Divis -

Not all mudcatters disagree with you. In fact, I'm glad to hear you say what you do because although I am empathetic, I don't have the background to justify my feelings on the subject. I'm one of the folks that are sick and tired of England and the U.S. invading, killing and maiming citizens of other nations and then crying foul when it happens on their own soil.

Seems to me that powerful nations think they are justified to do whatever they want and when the defenseless fight back with what little they have, they call it terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:31 PM

The winners (usually the big guys) write the rules.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 03:52 AM

Dear dianavan . Thanks for those words.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:22 AM

So when does Tom Murphy appear in court on these charges ?????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 06:09 AM

Hammer time?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Pied Piper
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 06:47 AM

Quit right Dave, as it's an English word the Irish borrowed.

PP

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 07:09 AM

Sandra's right.

Irish politics. its a bit like programming the video.some of us just don't get it.

i was in a Happy Eater once when Paisley walked in with his bodyguards. (He ate the Olypmian Breakfast). Someone at the next table whispered, isn't that the IRA bloke?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 07:12 AM

Sweeney,
The Assets Recovery Agency does not bring criminal charges against people
I think that what happens is they confiscate money that can not be accounted for legally.
Mr. Murphy will have to explain how a pig farmer came to have fifty million dollars worth of property.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 07:21 AM

Maybe Keith the British could explain how they obtained so much land in Ireland ? Was this bought or stolen ?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 07:28 AM

Does Britain own any Irish land?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Stu
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 08:06 AM

Divis - If you know Murphy could you tell why his nickname is 'Slab'?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 08:17 AM

Slab was his fathers nickname before him.Keith you asked does Britain own any land in Ireland ? Who is it than I am paying land rent to for the house I own ? And there are many large estates in the Irish Republic still in the hands of English double barrelled names. The British control and own the lands within the six counties of Ulster, I was sure you would have known that.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 09:43 AM

Who is it than I am paying land rent to for the house I own ? Divis, you're paying to the corrupt rich of England who made their money doing dastardly deeds years ago. You are NOT paying rent to the British. In much the same way as some people in Manchester are now paying rent to the corrupt rich of Ireland who made their money doing dastardly deeds more recently. They are NOT paying rent to the Irish. There are corrupt rich on both sides of the Irish Sea and in many other places besides. Feel free to call the landowners of both sides but don't assume that all of us on this side of the puddle belong to that class. Corruption knows no political, religious or territorial boundries.

BTW - If you are still covered by English land law you can buy your leasehold for around 5 years ground rent. The landlord is obliged to sell it you. We did it with a property we owned some years ago. The same bastards that own your land owned most of Lancashire as well.

Why was it his Fathers nickname then?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:24 AM

Tom is yet to be found guilty of any crime in Manchester. I have no idea why his father got the nickname.It was passed down, as happens in families. Dave the land that England own in Ireland wasn't bought.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:39 AM

Neither was the land in Lancashire, Divis. I can assure you that the aristocracy don't have a personal vendetta against you. They will rob anyone they can;-) I don't think anyone is suggesting that Mr Murphy is guilty of any crime in Manchester either. As was pointed out earlier the Assets recovery agency do not bring criminal charges. It would be nice if they investigated the people that own far more property than Mr Murhphy on both sides of the sea but we are both realistic enough to know that will never happen.

Imagine for one minute that the Assets recovery agency and the equivalent in Eire recovered all the property that the landowners could not explain away? I think it may cut our tax bills a little if our governments re-claimed the lot:-)

Until that time we will have to make do with whatever petty recoveries they can make. But come the revolution brother, come the revolution...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:40 AM

BTW - Look into buying your lease, seriously. Why should the likes of us stump up rent to people that don't need it year in and year out?

D.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:44 AM

Thanks Dave, I will look into that, thanks for the advice and take care.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:50 AM

PM on it's way to you, Divis. Hope it helps. Not sure if you'll get it or Epona:-)

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:54 AM

Hmmm - well, I thought it was but I cannot send to you it seems:-( Anyhow, perhaps someone else in NI can benefit from the following link as well

Hosuing Advice - northern Ireland


Good luck.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:56 AM

The nouveau riche Irish are now buying up big farms England and Scotland! Nationality has nothing to do with it, it's called the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:02 AM

Hosuing advice? Is that taking a chinaman to court? It should read Housing advaice of course

(With apologies to any called Ho who is being sued at the moment...)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Epona
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:46 AM

Hell, are my pm's gonna be messed up now too? Divis!!!

E

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 12:56 PM

No just your bank accounts !

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Epona
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 12:58 PM

Hah! Not amusing...:)

E

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:15 PM

Divis in this thread is Epona, GUEST, Divis, is Divis.
The styles and argumentation are completely different. Epona is always worth reading. Divis, on the other hand, often falls flat (silly play of words).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Epona
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:21 PM

Well, the mix-up is all my fault, really. Helped setup his membership for Mudcat so he wasn't always Guest and all my posts got switched over to his name! Oh well. I told him on another thread that everyone is going to think he's going soft if they read my posts and think it's him! :) His image will get a makeover! haha...

E

Sorry for the confusion.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:44 PM

Don't waste it on him. He hears what he wants, sad that he can only make personal remarks, which he thinks hit home, Come on Wolfgang, the English have accepted you by now,they forgave and forgot. No need to go on and on against me, maybe you fancy a debate on Irish Politics ? We can see who falls flat. See Wolfgang I cover the subject I know something about. Went through your previous postings four days ago,you seemed to cover many topics, not the wisest thing when you lack knowledge.Oh and gave you a very big fools pardon.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 09:45 AM

Not all Irish Republicans are Catholic, and not all Unionists are Protestant. So, if we are discussing Irish Republicans or Unionists, let's use those terms instead of Catholic or Protestant. Thanks! (Epona)

Good remark. One other example is Ronnie Bunting, the son of a associate of Paisley becoming INLA member.

But we may be excused for just a few months ago the former group of Republican posters (Curator et al.) has told us that not a single Catholic has voted for Paisley. Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals.

It's good to see now that a Republican poster agrees implicitely that this was nonsense.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 05:20 PM

Murderous Murphy is no longer relevant.

Sadly he won't be personally punished.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 06:15 PM

Dear Tim
Please list proof of any murder Tom was involved in. Otherwise keep your libelous remarks for the bars on weekend nights.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 02:56 PM

An article from the Guardian:

Is 'Slab' Murphy's bloody reign drawing to an end?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 03:24 PM

When I begin to read an artical in a newspaper the first thing I do is to see who the reporter is.When I saw the name Henry McDonald, that was enough. A well known anti Republican. Second I tend to look at how many times the reporter uses the words, fact, proven in court and admitted. If you read this artical Wolfgang you will see the words ALLEGED and THOUGHT TO BE. It tends to lend towards fantasy on the reporters part.And as to the information on Tom, it was amassed from the words of an informer, and a discredited one at that. I somehow doubt Wolfgang you would be pleased to read an article about yourself or a friend in a paper in which the reporter uses these two words against the words fact or proven.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 05:00 PM

Divis: you're quite correct, I can only plead drink having been taken.

To accuse anyone of anything without knowledge or evidence is quite wrong and I have no knowledge or evidence regarding Mr. Murphy.

I therefore withdraw my remarks and apologise unreservedly.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 05:10 PM

You could help us out here Sweeney.
We already know IRA did the deed in Manchester. They admitted it.
(For those who do not remember, a warning was given but the warning ommitted the fact that the bomb was much bigger than usual. The result was that people were not evacuated far enough and many deaths and terrible injuries resulted.)
Are you saying that he is definately not an IRA commander?
Surely you must know.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 05:29 PM

Dear Tim. Thanks for taking the time to post, we are all allowed to qoute newspaper reports without knowing the facts.
I am grateful to read your reply.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 05:51 PM

We can take that as a "no" then.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 05:52 PM

Dear Keith. Please would you be good enough to list the names of those killed ? you state MANY DEATHS.In the Manchester bomb of June 1996. Yes an active Service Unit of the Provisional IRA did plant a bomb on Saturday the 15th of June 1996 with resulted in 206 people being injured. NO ONE WAS KILLED.I repeat NO ONE WAS KILLED. The bomb was reported to be 8,000 pounds. It was 3,000. The warnings were telephoned under the agreed terms of recognized coding. In fact five warnings were received all given to different sources. The first of these was relayed to the Greater Manchester Police 1 hour and 46 minutes before the bomb exploded.It is the responsilbilty of the police to evacuate people to a safe area. Most injuries were caused by flying glass.Most injured were within an area that would have been effected if the bomb had been 1,000 pounds.I wish to say that I sincerely regret the injuries caused to civilians and that this incident now belongs in our past. Which I am very glad to see.
As to Tom Murphy,He is a well known Republican. As to your question is he a commander, answer no. There is no command structure within the PIRA as they have all been stood down.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,curious now
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 07:24 PM

So was he one before they stood down?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 02:11 AM

Sorry if I remembered that wrong Sweeney.
It was a long time ago and there were so many lethal bombs.
Someone close to me, a shop worker was there . She was only slightly injured but many of her friends were much worse. A girl due to be married had her face terribly disfigured.
Why did you always set the timers for the busiest times if you were not trying to terrorise ordinary folk.
Why not the middle of the night?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 04:00 AM

Always best to check your facts Keith before making a slur.Sorry Keith I cannot speak on behalf of those that planned attacks in England.I was also sorry to read of the young ladies disfigurement.I saw many such injuries here in Belfast on both men and women. None as a result of an Provisional IRA action. We often asked the British army for an answer, but failed to get one.
Dear GUEST,curious now, I am unaware of Tom Murphy holding any rank within the Provisional IRA. He was never convicted on membership charges.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 05:38 AM

Hardly a slur Sweeney.
It was just luck that no one died of their injuries, and there were enough fatal bombings at that time.

Always check my facts?
Perhaps I should but this is just a group of friends in discussion. We tell things how we remember, correct each other when we can, and trust each other not to lie.

Was it usual for volunteers to be unaware of the commanders?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 06:04 AM

Dear Keith, HARDLY A SLUR ? You said MANY DEATHS. I note the manner in which you played down your mistake, or was it ever a mistake ? maybe for some its too far back to remember and you would just slip it in. I am glad you see it as a group of friends in discussion, it's a group which has been made very clear that I am not a part of. Don't worry I have no problem with that.Keith I honestly hold no knowledge of Tom Murphy ever holding the role of a commander. Regarding volunteers knowing the identity of their O.C.'s. Sorry I am not in the position to answer this question.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 06:31 AM

Sweeney,
We do not agree on much, and I was shocked when you joked about shooting people from the flats, but I do enjoy debating with you.
Is that not a kind of friendship?
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 06:45 AM

Sophistry - you sert a bomb off it will kill people. Maybe not that day. Maybe not that year even - but the shock shortens their lives. thats what bombs do, and reckless drivers.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 06:51 AM

the girl I know who had but minor injuries (daughter of my partner) seemed to be unaffected.
Months later, at a barbecue, she saw someone burn themself, and she went to pieces.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 07:06 AM

I hope somehow that its all been worthwhile all the shooting and killing and you arrive at a peaceful solution.

DS obviously doesn't think much of us. Oue soldiers are there to be shot at. Our cities are there to be bombed - regrettable though a few fatalities may be.

I hope however that you accept our good wishes in managing to sort your problems and disagreements with your loyalist fellow citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 07:34 AM

Dear Keith My reaction to his remark as to what he did to the Irish, was anger, and I made that remark in return. Yes I was wrong to joke. Did you correct him for his statement, which sparked my reaction ? Keith I have axe to grind with you at all, and also enjoy the debating. But you have to admit there are many remarks posted on this site with deliberate intent to offend, if I fall into that box, I will put my hands up. I am very thick skinned and well hardened to the like.I am not here to defend the loss of life, and I feel strongly for what that young lady has went through.All lives lost was a regret, I have heard and saw enough pain to do me a lifetime, none of us hold the monoploy on suffering, and weelittledrummer is right, bombs destroy lives. We could play like tennis on the events since 1969 but I would prefer not to.From this side of the water I see people just getting on with their lives and it's great to see it. Yes just like your step daughter every so often someone or something picks at a scar and your right back in the mental reality of it.I can't help what I am, I don't feel within myself I am wrong to hold Republicans views, I don't come here to start arguements,If someone states something that I feel is incorrect I try to explain the facts as they are known to me. Sadly most of the posts are not questions, they are posted as either fact or attack.You will wait along time before I come in there purely to have a go at someone for nothing, most of my posts are reactive.We are on the other side of it all now, I have no doubt whatsoever of that.I hold no support for any breakaway groups and back the peace process to the hilt. Now thats not saying that you and I well always agree ! But what would be the fun in that, and yes I would look upon it as a kind of freindship. Thanks for your reply.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 07:48 AM

Dear weelittledrummer I regret all loss of live, be it yours or ours if that doesn't sound to tribal.Yes you suffered and that was wrong. I imagine few took comfort from the statement the PIRA gave after the ceasefire that they regretted and apologized for all loss of life. It was all they could offer.Like Germany after World War Two the British people in time realised the taking of life was by a leadership and an army, not the man in the street. I hope in time you can understand the reasons why what we called a guerilla war was fought. Together with forgiveness we can all move on I hope.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:29 AM

Sorry Keith, The above post from me should have said, That I have NO axe to grind with you.
Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 12:57 PM

Wee drum man, 14 unarmed civilians gunned down in Derry by your soldiers, 34 innocents blown to bits in Dublin and Monaghan by your soldiers, and we stand by and let an invading army reap death and destruction, a land that has left behind a legacy of hatred in every country her armies have invaded.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 01:39 PM

What do soldiers have up their sleevesies?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 05:34 PM

Wee drum man, 14 unarmed civilians gunned down in Derry by your soldiers, 34 innocents blown to bits in Dublin and Monaghan by your soldiers, and we stand by and let an invading army reap death and destruction, a land that has left behind a legacy of hatred in every country her armies have invaded.

The point is?

Silly snippets like that only invite the reaction they deserve. Look at the Sutton Index of deaths in Northern Ireland.

Civilians killed by British Security - 189
Civilans killed by Republican paramiltaries - 710
Civilans killed by Loyalist paramiltaries - 846

So for every 14 unarmed civilians gunned down by soldiers 140 unarmed civilians were killed by paramiltaries? For every 34 innocents blown to bits by soldiers 340 innocents were murdered by your own people? It's not as if you could not tell the difference between soldiers and cilvilans. Soldiers are the ones in uniforms walking round with big guns in case you didn't notice.

Sorry to be sarcastic but such hypocritical drivel deserves no better. If you want to join in the debate please do so with at least an attempt at common sense and a passing nod at reason. Read Divis's posts and understand that clever argument is what gets the Irish their well deserved reputation for intelectualism. Stupid hot headed rants do nothing to dispel the myth of the drunken brawler.

DtG.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 03:38 AM

And
which countries have this legacy of hatred? I have never found one.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 04:45 AM

I saw no synthesis between poetry and ideology, save perchance, the dialectic between chance and reason.... oh... sorry... wrong thread!!

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Albaman
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 06:45 AM

Aw man! an here,s me thinkin it wis all over and now am reading aw this bigotry piss. I think i,ll stick tae singin the Foggy Dew, Song for Ireland, and Belfast Mill tae the bunch o, proddies and fenians that have a good time at our at our celtic sessions. The best advice for you guys is "find a life quick" because yer dead a lot longer.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 02:03 PM

The Brits and their dirty tricks gang were responsible for using loyalists to carry out their murders, innocent catholics were murdered by these gangsters in the pay of their british masters.   Another fact which can be added to the many other murders carried out by the most hated country in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 04:16 PM

Armpits! Zebra! Fuggles hops!

Sorry - Just making our guest with tourettes syndrome feel at home.

I guess it is tourettes isn't it? What else makes people spout random meaningless phrases?

I had a friend once who used to spout dogma as fact. He is not a friend any more. I suspect he will die a lonely old man.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 04:23 PM

BTW - The most hated country in the world is Liechtenstein. Trust me on this.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:25 PM

And soon it will be a big, big welcome into our wee British Administration to help Unionists administer British rule under the authority of our Parliment in London, then after that we can welcome the spokesmen of the redundant Provos into the House of Commons, my, my you "republicans" truely have stuck by your credentials havent ya?? FOR GOD AND ULSTER

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:31 PM

I think to everyone reading the above post and his other few, someone is out to get a hostle reaction. Nice try but get into debate mode and state something worth answering. Was the lobotomy painful ?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 06:59 PM

I didn't even understand it Divis!

I have an apology to make though. I have, once again, been purposely hostile myself. I must admit I see it as a kind of charity. Some 'guests' who posts have little else to do with their lives but try to provoke a hostile reaction. Every now and again it is worth feeding them a few crumbs. Remember that we have real lives and they do not. Try and show a little pity and bring a little happiness to those less fortunate than yourself:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 07:22 PM

Sound advice Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Epona
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 12:12 AM

Back for the weekend! You guys have been really busy and there's a lot for me to catch up on...

E