BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Epona
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 12:12 AM

Back for the weekend! You guys have been really busy and there's a lot for me to catch up on...

E

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 07:22 PM

Sound advice Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 06:59 PM

I didn't even understand it Divis!

I have an apology to make though. I have, once again, been purposely hostile myself. I must admit I see it as a kind of charity. Some 'guests' who posts have little else to do with their lives but try to provoke a hostile reaction. Every now and again it is worth feeding them a few crumbs. Remember that we have real lives and they do not. Try and show a little pity and bring a little happiness to those less fortunate than yourself:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:31 PM

I think to everyone reading the above post and his other few, someone is out to get a hostle reaction. Nice try but get into debate mode and state something worth answering. Was the lobotomy painful ?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:25 PM

And soon it will be a big, big welcome into our wee British Administration to help Unionists administer British rule under the authority of our Parliment in London, then after that we can welcome the spokesmen of the redundant Provos into the House of Commons, my, my you "republicans" truely have stuck by your credentials havent ya?? FOR GOD AND ULSTER

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 04:23 PM

BTW - The most hated country in the world is Liechtenstein. Trust me on this.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 04:16 PM

Armpits! Zebra! Fuggles hops!

Sorry - Just making our guest with tourettes syndrome feel at home.

I guess it is tourettes isn't it? What else makes people spout random meaningless phrases?

I had a friend once who used to spout dogma as fact. He is not a friend any more. I suspect he will die a lonely old man.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 02:03 PM

The Brits and their dirty tricks gang were responsible for using loyalists to carry out their murders, innocent catholics were murdered by these gangsters in the pay of their british masters.   Another fact which can be added to the many other murders carried out by the most hated country in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Albaman
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 06:45 AM

Aw man! an here,s me thinkin it wis all over and now am reading aw this bigotry piss. I think i,ll stick tae singin the Foggy Dew, Song for Ireland, and Belfast Mill tae the bunch o, proddies and fenians that have a good time at our at our celtic sessions. The best advice for you guys is "find a life quick" because yer dead a lot longer.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 04:45 AM

I saw no synthesis between poetry and ideology, save perchance, the dialectic between chance and reason.... oh... sorry... wrong thread!!

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 03:38 AM

And
which countries have this legacy of hatred? I have never found one.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 05:34 PM

Wee drum man, 14 unarmed civilians gunned down in Derry by your soldiers, 34 innocents blown to bits in Dublin and Monaghan by your soldiers, and we stand by and let an invading army reap death and destruction, a land that has left behind a legacy of hatred in every country her armies have invaded.

The point is?

Silly snippets like that only invite the reaction they deserve. Look at the Sutton Index of deaths in Northern Ireland.

Civilians killed by British Security - 189
Civilans killed by Republican paramiltaries - 710
Civilans killed by Loyalist paramiltaries - 846

So for every 14 unarmed civilians gunned down by soldiers 140 unarmed civilians were killed by paramiltaries? For every 34 innocents blown to bits by soldiers 340 innocents were murdered by your own people? It's not as if you could not tell the difference between soldiers and cilvilans. Soldiers are the ones in uniforms walking round with big guns in case you didn't notice.

Sorry to be sarcastic but such hypocritical drivel deserves no better. If you want to join in the debate please do so with at least an attempt at common sense and a passing nod at reason. Read Divis's posts and understand that clever argument is what gets the Irish their well deserved reputation for intelectualism. Stupid hot headed rants do nothing to dispel the myth of the drunken brawler.

DtG.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 01:39 PM

What do soldiers have up their sleevesies?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 12:57 PM

Wee drum man, 14 unarmed civilians gunned down in Derry by your soldiers, 34 innocents blown to bits in Dublin and Monaghan by your soldiers, and we stand by and let an invading army reap death and destruction, a land that has left behind a legacy of hatred in every country her armies have invaded.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:29 AM

Sorry Keith, The above post from me should have said, That I have NO axe to grind with you.
Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 07:48 AM

Dear weelittledrummer I regret all loss of live, be it yours or ours if that doesn't sound to tribal.Yes you suffered and that was wrong. I imagine few took comfort from the statement the PIRA gave after the ceasefire that they regretted and apologized for all loss of life. It was all they could offer.Like Germany after World War Two the British people in time realised the taking of life was by a leadership and an army, not the man in the street. I hope in time you can understand the reasons why what we called a guerilla war was fought. Together with forgiveness we can all move on I hope.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 07:34 AM

Dear Keith My reaction to his remark as to what he did to the Irish, was anger, and I made that remark in return. Yes I was wrong to joke. Did you correct him for his statement, which sparked my reaction ? Keith I have axe to grind with you at all, and also enjoy the debating. But you have to admit there are many remarks posted on this site with deliberate intent to offend, if I fall into that box, I will put my hands up. I am very thick skinned and well hardened to the like.I am not here to defend the loss of life, and I feel strongly for what that young lady has went through.All lives lost was a regret, I have heard and saw enough pain to do me a lifetime, none of us hold the monoploy on suffering, and weelittledrummer is right, bombs destroy lives. We could play like tennis on the events since 1969 but I would prefer not to.From this side of the water I see people just getting on with their lives and it's great to see it. Yes just like your step daughter every so often someone or something picks at a scar and your right back in the mental reality of it.I can't help what I am, I don't feel within myself I am wrong to hold Republicans views, I don't come here to start arguements,If someone states something that I feel is incorrect I try to explain the facts as they are known to me. Sadly most of the posts are not questions, they are posted as either fact or attack.You will wait along time before I come in there purely to have a go at someone for nothing, most of my posts are reactive.We are on the other side of it all now, I have no doubt whatsoever of that.I hold no support for any breakaway groups and back the peace process to the hilt. Now thats not saying that you and I well always agree ! But what would be the fun in that, and yes I would look upon it as a kind of freindship. Thanks for your reply.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 07:06 AM

I hope somehow that its all been worthwhile all the shooting and killing and you arrive at a peaceful solution.

DS obviously doesn't think much of us. Oue soldiers are there to be shot at. Our cities are there to be bombed - regrettable though a few fatalities may be.

I hope however that you accept our good wishes in managing to sort your problems and disagreements with your loyalist fellow citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 06:51 AM

the girl I know who had but minor injuries (daughter of my partner) seemed to be unaffected.
Months later, at a barbecue, she saw someone burn themself, and she went to pieces.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 06:45 AM

Sophistry - you sert a bomb off it will kill people. Maybe not that day. Maybe not that year even - but the shock shortens their lives. thats what bombs do, and reckless drivers.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 06:31 AM

Sweeney,
We do not agree on much, and I was shocked when you joked about shooting people from the flats, but I do enjoy debating with you.
Is that not a kind of friendship?
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 06:04 AM

Dear Keith, HARDLY A SLUR ? You said MANY DEATHS. I note the manner in which you played down your mistake, or was it ever a mistake ? maybe for some its too far back to remember and you would just slip it in. I am glad you see it as a group of friends in discussion, it's a group which has been made very clear that I am not a part of. Don't worry I have no problem with that.Keith I honestly hold no knowledge of Tom Murphy ever holding the role of a commander. Regarding volunteers knowing the identity of their O.C.'s. Sorry I am not in the position to answer this question.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 05:38 AM

Hardly a slur Sweeney.
It was just luck that no one died of their injuries, and there were enough fatal bombings at that time.

Always check my facts?
Perhaps I should but this is just a group of friends in discussion. We tell things how we remember, correct each other when we can, and trust each other not to lie.

Was it usual for volunteers to be unaware of the commanders?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 04:00 AM

Always best to check your facts Keith before making a slur.Sorry Keith I cannot speak on behalf of those that planned attacks in England.I was also sorry to read of the young ladies disfigurement.I saw many such injuries here in Belfast on both men and women. None as a result of an Provisional IRA action. We often asked the British army for an answer, but failed to get one.
Dear GUEST,curious now, I am unaware of Tom Murphy holding any rank within the Provisional IRA. He was never convicted on membership charges.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 02:11 AM

Sorry if I remembered that wrong Sweeney.
It was a long time ago and there were so many lethal bombs.
Someone close to me, a shop worker was there . She was only slightly injured but many of her friends were much worse. A girl due to be married had her face terribly disfigured.
Why did you always set the timers for the busiest times if you were not trying to terrorise ordinary folk.
Why not the middle of the night?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,curious now
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 07:24 PM

So was he one before they stood down?

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 05:52 PM

Dear Keith. Please would you be good enough to list the names of those killed ? you state MANY DEATHS.In the Manchester bomb of June 1996. Yes an active Service Unit of the Provisional IRA did plant a bomb on Saturday the 15th of June 1996 with resulted in 206 people being injured. NO ONE WAS KILLED.I repeat NO ONE WAS KILLED. The bomb was reported to be 8,000 pounds. It was 3,000. The warnings were telephoned under the agreed terms of recognized coding. In fact five warnings were received all given to different sources. The first of these was relayed to the Greater Manchester Police 1 hour and 46 minutes before the bomb exploded.It is the responsilbilty of the police to evacuate people to a safe area. Most injuries were caused by flying glass.Most injured were within an area that would have been effected if the bomb had been 1,000 pounds.I wish to say that I sincerely regret the injuries caused to civilians and that this incident now belongs in our past. Which I am very glad to see.
As to Tom Murphy,He is a well known Republican. As to your question is he a commander, answer no. There is no command structure within the PIRA as they have all been stood down.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 05:51 PM

We can take that as a "no" then.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 05:29 PM

Dear Tim. Thanks for taking the time to post, we are all allowed to qoute newspaper reports without knowing the facts.
I am grateful to read your reply.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 05:10 PM

You could help us out here Sweeney.
We already know IRA did the deed in Manchester. They admitted it.
(For those who do not remember, a warning was given but the warning ommitted the fact that the bomb was much bigger than usual. The result was that people were not evacuated far enough and many deaths and terrible injuries resulted.)
Are you saying that he is definately not an IRA commander?
Surely you must know.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 05:00 PM

Divis: you're quite correct, I can only plead drink having been taken.

To accuse anyone of anything without knowledge or evidence is quite wrong and I have no knowledge or evidence regarding Mr. Murphy.

I therefore withdraw my remarks and apologise unreservedly.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 03:24 PM

When I begin to read an artical in a newspaper the first thing I do is to see who the reporter is.When I saw the name Henry McDonald, that was enough. A well known anti Republican. Second I tend to look at how many times the reporter uses the words, fact, proven in court and admitted. If you read this artical Wolfgang you will see the words ALLEGED and THOUGHT TO BE. It tends to lend towards fantasy on the reporters part.And as to the information on Tom, it was amassed from the words of an informer, and a discredited one at that. I somehow doubt Wolfgang you would be pleased to read an article about yourself or a friend in a paper in which the reporter uses these two words against the words fact or proven.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 02:56 PM

An article from the Guardian:

Is 'Slab' Murphy's bloody reign drawing to an end?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 06:15 PM

Dear Tim
Please list proof of any murder Tom was involved in. Otherwise keep your libelous remarks for the bars on weekend nights.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 05:20 PM

Murderous Murphy is no longer relevant.

Sadly he won't be personally punished.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 09:45 AM

Not all Irish Republicans are Catholic, and not all Unionists are Protestant. So, if we are discussing Irish Republicans or Unionists, let's use those terms instead of Catholic or Protestant. Thanks! (Epona)

Good remark. One other example is Ronnie Bunting, the son of a associate of Paisley becoming INLA member.

But we may be excused for just a few months ago the former group of Republican posters (Curator et al.) has told us that not a single Catholic has voted for Paisley. Pope John Paul Belfast Wall Murals.

It's good to see now that a Republican poster agrees implicitely that this was nonsense.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:44 PM

Don't waste it on him. He hears what he wants, sad that he can only make personal remarks, which he thinks hit home, Come on Wolfgang, the English have accepted you by now,they forgave and forgot. No need to go on and on against me, maybe you fancy a debate on Irish Politics ? We can see who falls flat. See Wolfgang I cover the subject I know something about. Went through your previous postings four days ago,you seemed to cover many topics, not the wisest thing when you lack knowledge.Oh and gave you a very big fools pardon.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Epona
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:21 PM

Well, the mix-up is all my fault, really. Helped setup his membership for Mudcat so he wasn't always Guest and all my posts got switched over to his name! Oh well. I told him on another thread that everyone is going to think he's going soft if they read my posts and think it's him! :) His image will get a makeover! haha...

E

Sorry for the confusion.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:15 PM

Divis in this thread is Epona, GUEST, Divis, is Divis.
The styles and argumentation are completely different. Epona is always worth reading. Divis, on the other hand, often falls flat (silly play of words).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Epona
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 12:58 PM

Hah! Not amusing...:)

E

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 12:56 PM

No just your bank accounts !

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Epona
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:46 AM

Hell, are my pm's gonna be messed up now too? Divis!!!

E

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:02 AM

Hosuing advice? Is that taking a chinaman to court? It should read Housing advaice of course

(With apologies to any called Ho who is being sued at the moment...)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:56 AM

The nouveau riche Irish are now buying up big farms England and Scotland! Nationality has nothing to do with it, it's called the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:54 AM

Hmmm - well, I thought it was but I cannot send to you it seems:-( Anyhow, perhaps someone else in NI can benefit from the following link as well

Hosuing Advice - northern Ireland


Good luck.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:50 AM

PM on it's way to you, Divis. Hope it helps. Not sure if you'll get it or Epona:-)

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:44 AM

Thanks Dave, I will look into that, thanks for the advice and take care.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:40 AM

BTW - Look into buying your lease, seriously. Why should the likes of us stump up rent to people that don't need it year in and year out?

D.

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:39 AM

Neither was the land in Lancashire, Divis. I can assure you that the aristocracy don't have a personal vendetta against you. They will rob anyone they can;-) I don't think anyone is suggesting that Mr Murphy is guilty of any crime in Manchester either. As was pointed out earlier the Assets recovery agency do not bring criminal charges. It would be nice if they investigated the people that own far more property than Mr Murhphy on both sides of the sea but we are both realistic enough to know that will never happen.

Imagine for one minute that the Assets recovery agency and the equivalent in Eire recovered all the property that the landowners could not explain away? I think it may cut our tax bills a little if our governments re-claimed the lot:-)

Until that time we will have to make do with whatever petty recoveries they can make. But come the revolution brother, come the revolution...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: PIRA Invests In Manchester
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:24 AM

Tom is yet to be found guilty of any crime in Manchester. I have no idea why his father got the nickname.It was passed down, as happens in families. Dave the land that England own in Ireland wasn't bought.