Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Midchuck
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 09:35 PM

The playability issue is, in the majority of cases, due to the fact that Martin so often ships new guitars with the nut slots cut too high. I guess they figure that old bluegrass dudes like them that way ("It can't be a Real Man's Guitar if it doesn't take a lot of strength to play it, and hurts some.") and that everyone else can have them lowered if they don't like it. Most Martins need a setup after you buy them, seems like. And I speak as a Martin lover.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 10:54 PM

Who said Martins are junk?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 10:56 PM

I'll take a Dodge Ram pickup Truck over a Ford 150 anyday

... just a diversion from this guitar debate.

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 03:21 AM

Right on the nail, Bobert.

And certainly in the UK, Martins are no more expensive than Taylors, Santa Cruzes, etc., unless you start going along the 'exotic' road.

Choice of instrument is dependent on many personal factors. The sound I like may be totally different from the next guy, and my views on what a guitar should look like aren't shared by everyone. For a player of one brand to slag off another brand seems a bit daft to me, the beauty is in the eye (and ear) of the beholder. You try out instruments until you find one that fits your personal requirements - from then on, it's the best. Doesn't matter a toss what others think, as long as you're a happy man.

Personally I find Taylors very comfortable to play, but they sound like Taylors which isn't a sound that grabs me. My Martin's harder to play, but the sound is PRECISELY what I want, and she looks real pretty, so for me it's a no-brainer. Others, like Kendall, will disagree - fine, variety makes the world go round.

IMNSHO.
S:0)

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 04:33 AM

Has anybody any experience of these models. I am at the looking hard stage.

OOOC16SGTNE and the OOOC16SRNE

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 05:24 AM

Your Yamaha sounds good to me w.l.d.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:07 AM

I dunno I went to this seminar at Fylde Folk festival with Ken Nicol. Great player. he's thought stuff about guitars that just hasn't occurred to me.

he was saying a cedar topped instrument was probably better in terms of the sort of fingerpicking that he and I do. Only he does it better.

Since when I've handed my guitar (cpx8 yam) to a couple of luthiers, clever guys and they both think its a pretty crap instrument. laminated sides so the sound won't improve apparently. Too much strutting inside (overbuilt was the term both of them used!). Apparently Yamaha build them like that so they can be shipped around the world safely. They both said what I had paid the money for (£625 or so) was the electrics inside - which are very good.

I'm getting on -the opportunities for getting things right diminish. I was watching Alan taylor last weeek. he's definitely got his guitar sound right. To be quite honest - I sort of agree with you - why spend a lot more money when hardly anybody would notice a difference. whatever happens its not going to turn me into alan taylor, or Bob Dylan, or Martin carthy.....yeh sod it, why bother?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:51 AM

I agree with everyone on this thread - so to speak!!
Please remember I wriite this as someone from the North East of England and not an hours drive from Nazereth.
I have 2 Martins - '94 HD 28 bought brand new ,I've nurtured it - I never play it when wearing a buttoned shirt so I don't scratch the back - don't care how hard I play it in sessions and the like .When I say I agree with everyone , I've definitely played better guitars esp. of the Taylor ilk ,the HD 28 has problems around the 12th Fret compared to playing around the first 5 frets . I've taken it to Martin-approved Luthiers with no improvement, but still it is a beautiful sound if you play / select songs which do not demand you playing at the top of the fret board.
The problem I have identified is most irritating to me, but seemingly non-existent to some people, when I have tried to show / let them listen to the fault.
It was only when I became a lot more adventurous and thought about a cutaway - and I don't know the series Nos. - ( to know if I'm going to assit weeliittledrummerboy question ) - but I bought a Martin DCX1E Dreadnought.
I thought had got a bargain - however when I showed it to my Luthier friend - he said Jeez!! I din't know Martin were making formica guitars these days !!! .( Only the neck and the front are natural wood ). Fact of the matter is - it is a superb play - true as anything I have ever played ,and ,most importntly is very true, well-past the 15th fret , and loads of quality sound ,so I am well pleased.
It was half the price of the HD and came with all the DI stuff ( not on the HD 28) which has already been proved at concerts which I have done. Superb value . The comparison to the cars, which some have made is valid, I think the HD is a Rolls Royce - but as with any quality product in which humans are involved they are bound to vary slightly in finished product.
Nevertheless I think Martin should sit up and take notice as they appear to be arrogant about their product and seem to take the attitude that their product is the best, and, any percieved fault must lay with th player / purchaser.
I would like Martin to provide some expert service /guidance /advice especially in the U.K. - after all what is the old addage ? it takes years and years to build the reputation for being the best, and only a very short time to lose it.
Whatever you're playing, I hope you get as much enjoyment out, as you are putting-in.

Cheers Betsy.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:53 AM

Of course guitars all have their specific sounds, tones etc. which appeal to specific individuals .... and like Kendall, I don't think anyone in this thread said Martin's are junk ... funny, how one will stickup for their preferred guitar model with such passion only paralleled by their choice of pickup truck or breed of dog.

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:10 AM

A large number of pickers have told me that my Taylor is an outstanding guitar, and that not all Taylors are that good. Well, that's possible, this one has a serial number of 4 digits (1982) So it has had time to mellow. It has been played by scores of pickers and not one of them has had a bad word for it. Nine out of ten have been very impressed with it, and some wanted to buy it.

As I have said, I have played them all, and I've owned most of them. I've played professionally for 55 years and no guitar has suited me better than this one.

Nuff said.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:53 AM

THe CPX series Yamahas are designed to be amplified LOUD. So the tops have to be fairly rigid or when the PA rig is turned up, instant feedback.

Intonation is a simple matter of string length and tension. If luthiers cannot improve the intonation (eg by repositioning the saddle slot, a fairly trick task, if there is not enough meat on the saddle to fix it there) then it can only be frets or neck progression. If there is too much forward bow on the neck, you will pull the strings sharp when fretting, but a luthier should have spotted that.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:10 AM

The qustion was about the cost of martin guitars.

Most people will have their own favourites, and this will often colour their own views. I have owned many different makes, Martin, Gibson, Ovation, Dobro, Fylde, Yamaha ( even Suzuki) etc, and have played many more. Always, the guitar that I currently play is 'THE BEST'. I have never ownes a Taylor, although I have played a few and agree that they are a very fine instrument.

There does seem to be a lot of unjustified 'Martin Knocking'going on at the moment which is a little unfair. Martins are undoubtedly a good guitar, some of them are great, my own Dh28 is brilliant, and I have yet to hear a guitar that would suit me better. But just because you are a particular fan of 'x' manufacturer, does not mean that'y' manufacturer is crap. A freind of mine has an Epiphone j200 that is absoloutly stunning, yet remarkably cheap.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:38 AM

Richard,
Just to try to extend /answer your thoughts, there is no bowing, its quite a true neck and the luthier has taken the saddle slot to its limit for adjustment. What I need is a luthier with another trick up his sleeve , as I suppose luthiers - in the same way as any craftsmen - there are some who can tackle normal problems, and, some who have a little extra to source and cure unusual occurences.
The average player wouldn't realise where I find fault and I repeat it is still an emminently fine guitar but ....but.......

Story time ..........
I still have 2 Nos Yamaha FG 180's circa 1971 which were a well made copy of the D-28. Yamaha made them really well to get into the market.
I had bought a Harmony Sovereign , and when I got it home from the shop I put on the brand-new strings the shop had provided me as part of the deal. To my horror when I tuned it all up - and twanged a chord - the bridge pulled off the front of the guitar. The shopkeeper offered me the FG 180, and gave me some money back as it was less expensive than the Sovereign.
I had many many years of pleasure from playing it,and I confess on occasions to not giving it the care and respect it deserved . A true workhorse !!Incidentally the 2nd one was bought not out of greed / possession - years ago a guy who was getting married offered it to me as he needed the cash and he wasn't such an avid player anyway.   

Incidentally,I don't know if I've got my wires crossed, but when you mentioned Yamaha CPX series - I assume you were replying to another message - you lost me with THAT reference - it's easy to lose me these days !!!.

Cheers Betsy.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:59 AM

CPX reference was to weelittledrummer.

As to that intonation issue -

It sounds as if the luthiers you have used so far are agreed that the issue is saddle positioning.

Next step therefore has to be either removing and repositioning the bridgeplate, or routing a wider saddle slot and then partly filling the new widened slot so as effectively to reposition the saddle. This in turn may mean (depends on spacing) plugging and redrilling (and tapering) new pin holes.

You can get a fair idea of how far out the guitar is by comparing the harmonic at the octave with the fretted note at the octave. You can retune the adjacent string for a reference if you don't trust your ear or an electronic tuner. If the difference appears large you may even be able to measure the length difference required with a tape measure. Always do this with new strings on - old strings may have become non-uniform in diameter. If the octave is right, you have a fretting problem.

You can also determine the right position experimentally. You will need an old saddle. File it down until it roughly does nothing - simply fills the saddle slot up to the level of the wood. Now take something like a giant paperclip bent straight, or a long thin nail with the head cut off, or a plastic cocktail stick. Put it pretty much where the saddle slot is. Now slide it (carefully, so as not to break it if it's plastic) backards and forwards until the harmonic octave is the same as the fretted octave. That is where the saddle (for that string) needs to be.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 12:06 PM

The "problems" that forced me to try a 9-sting, and then eventually go to a 000-18 with slackened strings, WASN'T the playability of the Martin guitar. It was the natural progression of my MS.

Thr Martin guitar was great until I turned it into matchsticks by closing the car trunk on it.

Old friend, Jan Burda, in Berian Springs, Michigan literally put it back together again just beautifully---but by then I couldn't play it even as a 6-string with looser strings. I couldn't wield it's size. My rendition of "Handful Of Songs" on that '98 CD is much less than I would've liked it to be. But that night when we all played music for Bob Gibson, a week before he passed on, was very special for me, so I used that live track.----- Our son, Chris, has the D-76 guitar now.

Keep pickin' !! (and appreciate what you can do.)

Art

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 12:27 PM

I don't care what kind of guitar you used on that CD, I love it!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Grab
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 03:59 PM

If you thought Martins were expensive, how about Gibson? Sheesh! If it wasn't for selling Les Pauls to rockers, Gibson would be *so* dead - talk about resting on their laurels...

Graham.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 04:08 PM

The fact is that all top quality guitars are expensive.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 05:09 PM

I have a friend who got rid of his Martin (OM1) when he got a Taylor (315CE). Then he got another Taylor (512CE). Then he sold the Taylors and I helped him find a Gibson J-45. It was only GBP999, new. He is happy. It sounds (and smells) great, both acoustic and plugged. He likes it much better than the Martin or the Taylors.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 05:47 PM

apples and oranges. Have him play an 810 Taylor and he will throw rocks at the Gibson.Those small body guitars just don't have what it takes in my opinion.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:13 PM

Its always fun looking outside ones own field of vision. My wife needed a tenor Viola De Gomba made by her dad , Don Warnock and one came on the market last year . After getting it ( I used the second morgage!) we added up all of my guitars and banjos and they did not match the price of Her tenor viol. So what we consider expensive has somthing to do with perseption . I think a new ford ranger costing 20 + thousand is over priced; yes obseen.
       I got a new OOO18 Martin Carthy model that is just incredable in a room on a mike and most importantly for me in the studio . It cost a ton of money but for what I get from it I do not consider it in the least bit exspensive . This being said by a potter who dosent mind selling a good vase for $500.00 or more.
      Oh on the high action point . If you realy SOUND the instroment the strings have to be a bit higher. A square dance guitar needed to speak up and to make it speak you needed to HIT the strings . Hitting a modern set up guitar ready for an amp and it not only buzzes it sounds like abuse of some kind .
          That said the Taylor has the best electrics on a factory set up acoustic I have ever heard . Now if we could raise the action so I could hear the tone of the thing ....Sorry Kendell just joking ...
          Different Guitars different tones different jobs : quality cost money and is worth the effort to obtain them . What a joy we have so much to choose from ! All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Midchuck
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:22 PM

Those small body guitars just don't have what it takes in my opinion.

Any more of that and I'll have to drive to Portland with the 0002H Collings, hit one open chord, and blow your house into the bay!

Peter.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:35 PM

Good one Peter . !! I have a 1930's Kallamazoo the size of an O18 we could add to the list of house flateners.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Auggie
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:36 PM

Gotta second Midchuck's point of view.
My 00-42 will cut through a ton of voices, strings and pianos as well as any of my dreads.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:00 PM

Aint opinions wonderful?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:14 PM

And just fir grins, these are just a few folks who also play Martins:

Roger McGuinn
Stephen Stills
Steve Miller
Mike Longworth
Bill Staines
The Shaw Bothers
Brad Marshall of Marshall Artz
Kevin Artz of Marshall Artz
Shawn Colin
Dick Dale
Mark Erelli
Frank Hannon of Tesla
Scott Johnson of Tesla
Roy Rogers
Andy Summers of the Police
Keithe Richards of the Stones
Rufus Waunwright
Tom Petty
The Smothers Borhters
Chris Thile of the Tone Poets
Mike Marshall of the Tone Poets
Eliza Gilkyson
Peter Rowan
Tony Rice
Josh Rouse
Ramblin' Jake Elliot
Rick Robbins
Tom Paxton
Judy Collins
Paul Kantner of the Jefferson Airplane
John Prine
Buffie St. Marie
Jackson Browne
Janis Ian
Krsi Krstofferson
Clay Hess
Ricky Scaggs
the late Eva Cassidy
Paul Simon
Rob Thran
Hanl Cramer
June Steans of the Louvin Bros
Charlie Louvin of the Louvin Bros.
Mac Wiseman
the late Jim Croce
Paul McCartney
Nick Drale
Charlie Walker of the Country Gentlemen
Mark Knopfer
and Willie Nelson...

Bobert

And thems is jus fir starters!!!...

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:18 PM

..and how many of them got their guitars free in endorsement deals from Martin !!!???

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:25 PM

Hey Bobert ... noticed Paul McCartney on the list ... just saw an ad recently of him promoting the Epiphone Mastercraft!

Kewl seeing Roy Rogers on the list.

Ya forgot Elivis Presly.

Ya forgot Neil Young ... but hey, wasn't that a Taylor he was seen playing at Molson Park for Live 8?!?!?! Yikes !!!

Anyway ... if I was a pro making big $$ I'd probably be on the list too ... and I'd probably have a Taylor or 2 also. But I'm just some guy from New Brunswick who plays a Taylor, with a Blueridge for backup.

sIx :)

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:44 PM

Looks to me like it's horses for courses - as we say over here in the UK.
Another story - when I bought my HD 28 in 1994 I took my Yamaha FG 180 to the shop - a place called Musicsound in Doncaster England. Reason being, they had private rooms for playing " quality " guitars and I wanted to be able to compare sounds - I hope that makes sense .
At first I thought, maybe I could save money by buying a second hand Martin ( again I hope THAT makes sense ). I played all the second -hand guitars but none really sounded or felt any better than what I already had so I never realy pressed the issue.
One had a price tag of £3,500 ( say $7,000-ish in the U.S.A.) and when I played it it sounded like shite so I went and sourced a new one, and after 5 hours of deliberation , I bought what I bought a HD 28.
Whilst in the playing room, a guy played the £3,500 second-hand guitar ( I'd previously tried ) and he prononced it - not bad.
I dismissed it for two reasons No.1. - 'cos it wasn't as good as the cheap Yamaha I had with me and No.2 'cos it was twice the price of the new guitar which I eventually bought.
Regarding the £3,500 - it turned out the shop had all the documentation / the guitar was fully authenticated as previously being owned by Mr. Neil Young ( the famous one ).
I suppose it might have made a useful investment - but I was looking for a decent guitar.
I bought my guitar from said establishment in 1994 so I'm sure my story will not be difficult to verify ,I also remember that the establishment was desperate to purchase from any source, Marshall valve amps for resale to the USA, he reckoned he could sell all that he could get his hands upon.
As a guy who plays through PA / Amp System it meant nothing to me but I had to listen ..............

Such is life

Cheers ,Pete

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:15 PM

Like I said, sIx, this was just a starter's list.... Yeah, sure, some of these folks mighta gotten some promo guitars from Martin, but guess what??? Thay played 'um... Hey, if some guitar company offered me a guitar, sho nuffg I'd take it, but if it din't play good, I wouldn't perform with it...

These folks I listed all have perforemed with their Martins...

But this is just the tip of iceburg when it come to folks who prefer to perform with Martins...

You Martin bashers can twist whatever you want but, botoom line, lotta folks like the sound that they get outtta these guitars...

Ain't badmouthin' none others here but you gonna pick on Martins as over-rated, yer gonna get a lot of arguements from folks other than myself... Like the list of folks I posted above...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Auggie
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:32 PM

C.F. Martin has always made a point of publicizing the fact that NOBODY gets a Martin in exchange for promos or publicity.

Not Neil Young, not Johnny Cash, not even Bobert.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:34 PM

I would say "Aint options wonderful ! "

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:48 PM

Not that I wouldn't take a freebee if it was offered, Auggie... Sho nuff would..

Hey, I'm just happy to have mine... I bought it in 1966, have the Owner's Certificate in the safety deposit box and a couple years ago, after 30 some years of my abuse to my Martin, ghot aneck reset done under warrenty... They even patched up a couple cracks I know I cuased over the years....

Hey, I bought the guitar in 1966 and it's still under warrenty!!!

But better than that, it sounds better than it ever has..

No brag, just fact...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 10:34 PM

I have to admit Bobert when I first noticed your list I thought it was famous guitarists who are Freemasons!

I'm certainly not a Martin basher ... If I could justify the expense, I'd certainly get a HD35, again if I could find one that sounds exceptional! Just jokin .... but as previously mentioned I bought my Taylor cause I fell for the tone, resonance, playability it called out to me. I've had a Guild, Yamaha sushi board and Gibson 335 in my past, but have not relished any of them as much as my Taylor ... bottom line. Never have been affected by GAS, I always stick to one main guitar. Nothing makes a guitar player happier than being completely sastisfied with his main axe. Mine just happens to be a Taylor.

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 10:50 PM

Cool beans, sIx... That's whats it's all about anyway...

I've got a cheapie Syaria small bodied guitar that I gave my son when he was about 13 years old and he lived with his mom in a house where there where temp extremes and humidfity extreems and cat pee extremes...

Need;erss tp say, thios wonderfull soundin guitra is now a beat up, cracked, structurally compromised guitar...

Too bad... I would have kept on top of it... It was easilly as good as my '66 Martibn in terms of tone and playability....

Maybe one day I'll get it fixed... Maybe not.....

Bobert

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 09:26 AM

When Roy Rogers was working there were no Taylors.

Tommy Smothers played a Guild on the old Smothers brothers show.

Dan Crary, a world famous bluegrass picker plays a Taylor, and if you watch closely you will see more and more Taylors on tv.
Martin does build some great guitars, but they are not the only game in town anymore.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 09:32 AM

By the way, I spent an evening with Ramblin' Jack and he loved my Taylor. We swapped guitars during the evening; he played mine and I played his Martin. Nice guitar, but I was glad to get my Taylor back.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:20 AM

Last I heard, Tony Rice was plugging Santa Cruz guitars, and making them sound damn good too.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Midchuck
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:52 AM

Last I heard, Tony Rice was plugging Santa Cruz guitars, and making them sound damn good too.

Yeah, but keep in mind that both Santa Cruz and Collings have been very successful essentially by copying old Martin (and a few Gibson) guitars, but making them sound even better, and selling them for top dollar.

No matter what Tony Rice plays, he'll always be associated with the The D-28 - the one that Clarence enlarged the soundhole on, and installed an old Guild fingerboard, and that TR still has but doesn't play out much because it has to much historical value. Martin, Collings and Santa Cruz have all produced close copies.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:01 AM

Even I could make a Santa Cruz sound good!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:03 AM

I wonder why Doc Watson doesn't play a Martin?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Duke
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:09 AM

I agree! My 60's guitar is the best sounding guitar that I have ever played. Including the new Martins. I think the change in wood made a change in the sound.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:30 AM

There's several questions, all conflated here.
1) Are new Martin guitars worth the asking price?
2) Are there other NEW guitars offering a better tone for the money?
3) Is there anything out there as good as an old Martin?

to #1 and 2-- WHICH new Martin? They offer such a bewildering assortment of models that if what you "want" is to play something with a Martin label, you can get it, and it won't be (IMHO) as good a guitar as some others out there at the same price.

to #3: Again IMHO-- the Martins of 1920-1945 can't be beat. You can expect trouble every time you put a capo on and need to retune all six strings to get back in tune, but it's worth the effort if you're going to record with it. If you're doing a gig, it's probably a good idea to have a newer guitar which will have good intonation when capoed. I can think of several old time musicians (Tracy Schwarz, Kay Justice, others) who use a Taylor at gigs for just that reason.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Cumbrian
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:58 AM

Sorry to jump into this discussion so late, but are run on the mill Martins really that expensive ? ( by run of the mill, I mean standard series down and at a push the vintage series guitars ).
We have to start with the premise that everything is relative, and there is always someone who can refer to a great sounding Yamaha etc. which cost a fraction of the price of perceieved high end brand guitars ( experience has shown me that there are plenty of guitars out there that justify this claim ), however, Martins, as good as they can be, are now just one of a number of high output manufacturers within the same general price bracket.
Where Martin do struggle to compete and justify their prices, is at the higher end of their range, especially when compared with the plethora of smaller output operations ( Collings and Santa Cruz to mention but two US buiders, plus some great builders outside the USA. take Fylde and Lowden as examples, offering custom designs in beautiful master grade woods
Beyond this group is a mass of very special small shop, single luthier operations who can offer incredible attention to detail and some remarkable guitars.
Within these two latter catergories are instruments that bring Martin's general output down into the mid range of acoustic guitar pricing ( I said everything was relative ).
At the end of the day, whether or not something can be conceived as expensive or not is down the value that the potential purchaser places upon the item in question. If someone has always dreamt of owning a D28 or a 00028, the current prices make this as reasonable a possiblilty as it has ever been.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,potbelly
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:15 PM

u gave away aj45 realy.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,sorfingers
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:59 PM

Nope theres absolutely no point in comparing brands!

I have played on Taylors that were superb but the very next month others that were rubbish. The other day I got hold of a Larivee that was on sale for 1019 bucks and it was a box to die for, superb and no equal in a place full of high dollar boxes.

Once had a used rosewood Fender that almost played itself. There's no such a thing as buying unseen untried 'WOODEN' guitars! You have to try first and be satisfied with what you get.

We now have a Martin DM - because we liked it so much when we tried it, and we did not know at the time it was a Martin! Only a couple of years in use it is now in the Guitar hopital for wear on the fretboard and frets, also needs some other adjustments. I wouldn't trade it for anything even another Martin, again, because I like it soooo much.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 09:27 AM

Midchuck - (10 Oct 05 - 10:52AM)

Point well taken ...

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 09:50 PM

There is a great article in the Bostonia magazine this month on Christian Martin and his tenyer (sp?) as head of the company . Its a very interesting article if you can get a chance to read it .
            It sounds like he has quite a passion for wood and hand work of a type his dad was not interested in.Funny ><<><> his dad ran the place in the early 70's .
          All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:15 AM

I remember reading an interview with the late Waylon Jennings. Somebody complimented him on his old telecaster, he said - yup, guess it was the way they pissed on the wood that year

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:26 AM

Senor, i tink de martin gitar is xpensive cos she cost a lot of money: no?