Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Cretzon
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 06:27 PM

I bought an Epiphone 12 string guitar in 1970 and it cost around 60 quid, which represented about 5 weeks pay as a young journalist. I've still got the guitar, and today it plays as well as it ever did and sounds finer. Not everybody's an Epiphone fan, but I never thought I'd find another guitar I preferred.

Two years ago I bought a Martin D12; had it set up by a luthier, and now I wouldn't part with it. It's usually the most striking sounding guitar in the room; at 62 I seriously doubt I'll be around to hear what it sounds like in 40 years.

Cost? 535 quid - including import duty, postage and VAT. And it came in faultless condition with a Martin case. Don't overlook the cheaper range Martins.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 05:48 PM

My trusty old 1970 D-41 is in the hospital for some restorative surgery. Actually it's in to try to undo the damage the last guy (Randy Wood) did who was supposed to restore it but wrecked it instead. So I haven't had it to perform with for nearly two years.

I originally thought I'd have it back much sooner but I needed a performing axe in the meantime so I picked up a Blueridge BR-260. It's a herringbone dreadnought with Brazilian back and sides modeled after the pre-war Martins. It is a very nice sounding guitar. It probably sounds as good as any new Martin D-28 or any model below that. I've performed with it and recorded with it and people would often come up after a show just to find out what make it was.

But two or three months ago I was in a local shop and the owner said he just got one in that I needed to see. I picked it up and started playing through some things and it was as if the heavens had opened and the angles were singing. I had never heard any guitar (and I get around) that could hold a candle to my 1970 D-41 but here it was. A 2004 Martin HD-28CW. Not the Brazilian one, just the standard HD-28CW. What an amazing guitar. A rich and loud but wonderfully focused sound perfect for driving a working bluegrass band (which is what I do). It handles sensitive crosspicked passages with the same clarity as a balls-out fiddle tune and the bass runs cut right through without needing to overpower the other instruments. It is now mine and the other members of the band are very pleased too.

A student of mine owns an HD-28CW but I never thought it sounded better than my Blueridge. But this one... Oh, my.

Martin is capable of making really wonderful guitars and every once in a while... they do.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 02:06 PM

I wouldn't surrnder my Martin for twice what I apid for it.

But partly that is because of its accumulated seasoning in the forty-odd years it has made music.

That siad I would be open to a Taylor if I met one I loved and had the dough to buy it.

Martin prices their product high (a) because they can, having the brand cachet and (b)because they have developed a very high quality product line.


A

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 01:42 PM

Given the weakness of the US Dollar and the current oversupply of Martin guitars, they appear to be in the process of becoming much less expensive!

Don't count on it. They are making some nice lower priced instruments, but the upper models are still selling at high prices

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 03:34 PM

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Lanfranc - PM
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 06:25 PM

Given the weakness of the US Dollar and the current oversupply of Martin guitars, they appear to be in the process of becoming much less expensive!


what a difference a day year makes ...

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 11:56 AM

I'll bet the £4,000 guitar will increase in value whilst a car soon becomes worthless.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 11:55 AM

But the guitar won't make a hole in the Ozone Layer! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: goatfell
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 11:47 AM

I know a guy who payed £4,000 for a guitar, god you can buy a second hand car for that and still get change

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Mr Big palms-short fingers
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 11:44 AM

Irrespective of price, I just wish more acoustics would be marketed with thinner/narrower electric guitar dimension necks.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 11:21 AM

My first D-28 was purchased in 1967 for around $350, which included a hard-shell case. The sound was wonderful and the straight-grain Brazilian rosewood was gorgeous, but the neck needed some adjusting. It was stolen in 1978 and I never found anything with that particular sound until I came into possession of a Taylor dreadnaught about three years ago. Because of an index finger injury to my left hand suffered a few years back, I don't play it as much as my classical guitar (bar chords can be problematic), but I love it when I do. Now, if I could just get it back from my son, who is using it for all the acoustic work his band does.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Dec 08 - 01:08 PM

Guitars have their own personalities. Some players can make some makes
sound right for their style of playing. Their style may not work on all
brands. Each Martin has it's own personality and reason for being built.
Yamaha had a testing program in California where they attempted to
compare their brand with the Martin in an A.B. testing. The Yamaha had
a different tonal texture which would be desirable on certain musical styles.
The Martin on others.

The reason Martin is expensive is because they were there first. Over the
years they built quality instruments. I would never trade mine for any
other.

For example, when Josh White had his original Gibson guitar stolen, he
switched to the Martin 0021 which he played in later years. I played one
that he had owned at the time in possession of Bess Hawes and fell in love
with that instrument. I subsequently bought one and have stayed with it
for a long time. It sounds good with a Rare Earth going through a Sunrise pre-
amp and mixed with a standing mic.

Every player gets something different out of each instrument. To compare
good guitars against one another makes no sense. It comes down to
the player's style and personality.

Frank

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Stringsinger
Date: 07 Dec 08 - 12:55 PM

I have had the Martin 0021 that I play for years. It has a beautiful balance and
the intonation corrected by John Carruthers.

The instrument is only as good as the player. You can have all kinds of
preferences but the bottom line is that a good player can make any guitar
sound good.

Frank

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 07 Dec 08 - 12:16 PM

I wish I had your ear Goatfell - would have saved me a lot of money!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Dec 08 - 11:45 AM

to me a guitar at £100 sounds exactly the same as one at £4,000

and the same with guitar strings, a set the cost you £7 sounds exactly the same as ones at £12

so I can't see what is difference about Guitars and strings, becasue as I say one Guitar sounds exactly the same as another.

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Date: 07 Dec 08 - 11:41 AM

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Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 07:39 PM

I just stumbled upon this site and had fun reading much of this thread. It almost felt like guys arguing over whether blondes, brunettes or redheads were hotter. They can all be hot.

I used to have an old D28 (Brazilian rosewood) which I had to trade for a good Gibson ES 340 and Fender Pro Reverb...damn I wish I still had either of them. When I got a D 18 in 1972, everyone said...it's nice, but they don't make 'em like they used to. After a few years, it sounded like they used to make 'em. Last summer, I drove to Nazareth and they reglued all the struts, reset the neck, reglued the bridge and refretted it. They only charged me for the frets. It came out sounding new...but after a week or so, it sounded old again. It's a great guitar, but it's still recovering from the new glue. I plan to keep it. It's very sweet and well balanced.

However, to keep it from further wear and abuse, I just bought a DCX1E. It has a very very nice sound...full bass like rosewood, clear treble and sweet tone. My friend just got a 7 year old DCX1E and wow...sounds like an old Martin. I wasn't sure how they would age...but apparently, the top is what matters most.

Every piece of wood is unique. Every guitar top is unique. I've played some beautiful Taylors, Gibsons, Guilds and some luthier made guitars. They were all beautiful. Personally, I really like the feel and sound of my Martins, but I did have to take the action down...I play a lot of blues...not bluegrass. All the Martins I've seen improve greatly with playing and age, but some of the newer ones sound outstanding right out of the box. I just played a Tawny Satinwood my dealer just got in. I want to get a solid rosewood model, but the ones he has aren't as nice sounding to my ear as the X and plywood Martins. Over the years, I've played a bunch of Martins and they all sounded nice and consistent, but the older ones were best. I would just as soon have a Dillon or a Schulte but they are both retired and the ones they made are coveted and costly. (I do have a great Schulte Les Paul Custom and some of my friends have Dillons.)

Martin has turned out so many great guitars that they have a well deserved reputation. And their higher end ones have snob appeal. I don't care about pearl inlay and cosmetics as much as the feel and sound I like. Taylors seem a little more fragile here in this climate...I live a little over an hour from the Martin factory. I'd love to have a nice Taylor for my collection, but for my taste, Martins suit me a little more. But...my sister has an old mahogany top Guild that sounds far far better than it should...it's as nice as a Martin or a Taylor and some far better guitarists than I agree on that point.

Badmouthing a Taylor won't make your Martin better and vice versa.
Enjoy what you like.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 May 08 - 08:01 AM

because they, along with Gibson, have built the biggest myth ever made.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,mikey
Date: 17 May 08 - 07:26 AM

because they, along with gibson, have built the best instruments ever made

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: glueman
Date: 10 May 08 - 12:38 PM

My guitar is a £30 Chinese dreadnought and I rather like the way it sounds. It has the fattest strings known to man and you can't play it for more than half an hour without sustaining an industrial injury. For those thirty minutes it makes a great noise, neither sweet nor beautiful but kinda phat and bluesy and weird. All the guitars mentioned would be a million times 'better' but none will make the sound that thing does.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: van lingle
Date: 10 May 08 - 11:12 AM

I try (with varying degrees of sucess) not to pay too much attention the name on the headstock but I did play a new Martin Norman Blake 000-28 model a few years back in Salt Lake City and found it to be both an awesome fingerpicker and flatpicker and that after playing a bunch of fine vintage instruments at Intermountain Banjo.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 09 May 08 - 09:31 PM

My Mrs Bought me a Martin Guitar end of 2007.
I am as pleased as punch with it and think it to be lovely to look at and to hear.
I would never have spent so much money on a guitar for me 'cos I dont think I will ever play well enough to make the most of wahat it can do.
Also I am not usualy a "Equipment snob" but I have to admit I am proud of me little guitar whenever I take it out and get a real player to have a go.
I thionk they are expensive 'cos they are good.
Same as taylor,Lowdon,etc.
Be happy and play proud

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:52 PM

You want quality, you pay for quality, you want cheap. you get cheap. Martins are not cheap.

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,James in Brooklyn, NY
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:28 PM

I own a Martin 000-28 Norman Blake and it is the best sounding Martin, (or any other acoustic guitar) I have EVERY played, let alone owned, IMHO.

Let's not forget a big issue regarding price- it's made in America. Not Chine, Korea or Canada. Also, as others have stated, it is the quality of the Tonewoods that are used and the man/woman hours for all the hand carving. And yes it is a bit about the "Martin" name but people, why does Martin have a name for Guitars? Because they build bloody fantastic ones, that's why.

Guitars, like a lot of things in life, are personal. What floats your boat may sink my boat to the bottom and vice versa. I have played over 20 Taylor Guitars and I would not pay $300 for ones they sell for 4 Grand! I put Taylor's on my lap and within seconds it is always-NO WAY! I am not right nor am I wrong. It just comes down to- what grooves you...........

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 11:26 PM

Just to clear a few things up, Martin mills many parts (necks) on CNCs and then assembles and finishes the guitars by hand. I think many mfgs do this, and they will tell you when asked. No biggie, you get more exacting tolerances that way, it's still hand assembled.

So why are some $900. and others over $3000.? It has to do with the grades of woods used and the amount of time spent hand-shaving braces for that "perfect" tone. Many more man-hours on a D-35 than a D-1. Then there's inlays! The inlay on a D-45 takes a bit more than an afternoon to complete!

My 2 cents on tone: The sturdiest and heaviest guitars seem to have that "reference sound" that fills a room with sweetness and clarity.
The fatter the neck, the better the sustain, period. (sorry taylor!)This about tone, NOT ease of play. Also, don't be a putz and put light strings on a jumbo or dreadnought! They are designed to have a certain tension on them for optimum tone and projection-use at least 13-56!
I have noticed that cheaper guitars, for whatever reason, cannot handle this tension. feh. Don't waste your money.
I play locally and regionally, and I have accepted that I can't find a GREAT-sounding acoustic for less than $2300.-$3000. here's what I use:
-(1) Gibson SJ200: Kapow! Fat neck, Big and loud! REFERENCE TONE!
-(2) Gibson J-185EC: fat, fat necks (think L-5 archtop), Great big frets, REFERENCE TONE!
-(1) Martin HD28: a tonal standard, had to try several out though, great capo guitar, REFERENCE TONE!
-(1)Guild F512 12 string: THE 12 string-REFERENCE TONE!
-(1)Lowden S25J-Nylon "jazz" neck, sturdy, smooth play, REFERENCE TONE!
These all sound great mic'ed with condensers from cheapo russian-made to expensive german-made(Neumann)ones; Any Shure or Akg, etc. dynamic mic is fine too. My point is that they sound good anywhere, anytime, under any conditions. They never, ever fail me and they ALWAYS sound great.

Back to Martin: I don't like the cheap ones and many of the new D-18 thru D-35s don't enthrall me, historic, vintage, whatever. Find a late model HD28-35, D41-42-45, but SHOP AROUND and be patient, you'll find one you like.

So, save your bucks, get a GREAT-sounding guitar whatever make. Shop around. The lifetime of pleasure outlasts the sting of the (well-worth-it)price tag. And DON'T buy a Taylor!(LOL)
goodnite, irene!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Stewart
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 05:04 PM

Expensive?

Heck, I only paid $99.95 for my Martin D-18,
new, in 1956!
And when the (slot-through) bridge flew off
(CRACK!!)
a month ago, I called Martin in Pennsylvania.
A real person answered the phone (amazing!).
After I explained my problem she connected me
directly with a service rep.
Because Martins (at least back then)
were guaranteed for life, I asked if they would
repair it under warranty.
He asked me if I had my warranty papers, and I replied,
"no, that was over 50 years ago."
After I gave him the serial number and mentioned
that I had had some warranty repair about 25 years ago,
after I had written Martin explaining I was the original owner,
he said, "no problem, just contact a certified Martin repair person
in the Seattle area and we will pay for the repair."
Done!
Best investment I ever made,
and NO, I'm not going to sell it
for any amount of money.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 04:25 PM

Why is the pope a catholic?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 06:25 PM

Given the weakness of the US Dollar and the current oversupply of Martin guitars, they appear to be in the process of becoming much less expensive!

On UK eBay there is currently a 1997 D-41 in near new condition going for less than GBP1000 (current RRP GBP2700) and this is about the only auctioned Martin (as opposed to "Buy it Now") that has any bids at all at the moment.

Does anyone else remember the song "Keep that wheel a'turning", where the hero "turned out more than his boss could sell"?

I rather fear that Chris Martin has saturated the market and we have reached the point where everyone who ever wanted a Martin has now got one (or, in my case, four!)!!!

Alan

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,belerecords
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 03:27 PM

Now I'm old and a little better off than I used to be I have bought both a Martin 00018gt and a taylor GS cedar top. They are like 2 great singers with very different voices both unique in their own ways. They were both bought in separate blind playing sessions in a great shop where the assistant passed me instruments without me really being able to notice the precise details of what they were until I'd played them for at least a good 15 minutes when I stopped to have a look. It took a lot more playing before making final decisions but I don't regret either purchase. In fact buying the Martin (the first one) is one of the best decisions of my musical life - it revolutionised my playing and gave me a confidence I'd never had before. The Martin is an ultra reliable workhorse that will do anything gig after gig after gig. The Taylor came 4 years later and is a bit more of a Diva. The Taylor GS does not sound like a Taylor - it has a massive bottom end and played with a 5 string capo is amazing! I will never ever part with either, both worth every penny and I wish I'd mortaged my life 20 years earlier to buy them.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Guest: Ed
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 07:20 AM

They are expensive because somebody pays the asking price. Personally I don't care for Martin's and I've owned several. They are great, given the right strings, for those that like it loud and in your face. However, that's not my thing. I like kinder and sweeter tones. After 65 years of playing I've settled on a Gibson J-185. Not too big. Not too little. Round shoulders and narrow waist makes for great snuggling and ease in wrapping around her. If you play long hours regularly that makes all the difference in the world. Martins were all right for quickies.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,GUEST frodopogo
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:46 PM

I don't currently have a steel string acoustic.
When I had one, the best I had was a lawsuit Takamine.
Like people have mentioned about Martins, it took some
playing before it started to open up.
One day I played way too long for what I was used to (weekend warrior)
and injured the index finger. Now I max out at about a half hour
on a steel string acoustic... and so it's not worth having one.
I try them now and again in shops.
I make do for my own playing with a nylon string...
but I'm very sensitive to acoustic guitar tone,
especially as a member of the audience, or hearing others
play them in shops.

I can totally agree with the comments about the differences
in sound- to me, Taylors have a clarity and a bell like quality,
but lack warmth.
Martins sound much warmer and richer to me, but almost
too warm and rich- they lack clarity.
They also tire my bad finger out the quickest.
The acoustic whose tone I have enjoyed the most listening to
was actually a fairly old (20 year old?) Alvarez Yairi.
The sound was rich, and yet every note was clear and distinct.
However, I understand how some people preferring the sound
of Martins, Gibsons or Taylors is a matter of taste.
They are definitely not the same. And it's also a matter
of function- what genre, solo or ensemble, etc.

I also play electric guitar, since it is easier on my injured
finger. I tend to like Stratocasters, and there I am well
aware of this "iconic" aspect, which is a factor with Fender's
electrics, just as it is with Martin acoustics, and virtually
all Gibsons. Some have mentioned this. There is just something
about a Martin or Gibson acoustic (if of the classic designs)
that just "looks right" for certain genres of music. (those
that have a history stretching back to the 20's,30's,40's,and 50's)
This iconic quality is a big factor, especially in the resale market.
Many good guitars that don't have that iconic quality
lose a lot of value if you bought them new and try to resell them.
Some of that resale value is partly because you have ignorant
people who wouldn't know a good guitar from a bad one buying
Martins, Gibsons, and Fender electrics, just because their dad
or granddad had one. But if resale value is a factor,
then it might be worth it to look for a good Martin or Gibson.
I would say a new guitar's price is more reflective of the cost of the
labor and materials it took to build it,
where a used guitars price is based on its reputation...
and some of that is perhaps deserved, and some
has this irrational iconic quality.

Martin is the only American company whose quality stank in the '70s.
So did Fender and Harley-Davidson- the companies barely survived because of their trashed reputations. And all the American carmakers
were making absolute junk in the '70s... what was it about those times? Surprisingly, Fender's and Harleys are still American icons.

Anyway, this thread was an interesting read- lots of good points
mixed in with irrational iconic statements that remind me
of Ford-Chevy debates when I was a kid.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 02:11 AM

I hope you enjoy your Martin, Marco - best wishes. Whatever you do - now that you've paid for it, don't make the mistake I did. Persist with it. Get a good luthier to look at it straightaway, and sort out any minor problems that he can see with a good set up.

My Martin D35 would never stay in tune for long - I realise now that it was probably the holes in the bridge which were too tight, or the nut that was cut wrongly. Something really trivial that could easily be sorted out. In my naivety, I thought if I paid a lot for a guitar it would be perfect from the word go.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 01:55 AM

"It's not even a new one," indeed. Nice one!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 01:44 AM

If you think Martin guitars are expensive take a look at Gibson mandolins, currently on eBay is a 1926 Gibson F5 Fern, price £48,328.24 or in the US $95,000.00

It's not even a new one.

eric

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Marco
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 12:44 AM

I Just bought a 2006 HD28. This guitar is the best sounding guitar I've heard in a long time. When I was trying out guitars, I had it down to a taylor 810, Martin HD 35, and HD28. While the taylor did sound nice, I went with the HD 28. I like the darker sound. I'm mostly a flatpicker and the martin suites me well. The taylor was nice, but it seems like when you play a nice martin you will not buy anything else. I do believe that it does not matter what kind of guitar you buy as long as you love it. Martins are expensive, but if it is the guitar that suites you well than it is well worth it. And I know there is so many Taylor fans out there and they do make a great guitar, but I tell you taylor fans to check out a tour of the Martin factory and it just may change your mind about quailty guitars.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:20 PM

When I sold the 1938 00018 in about 1976 Orange Music in London gave me £195 which I accepted becouse I was desperate. I was ripped of but it appeared the Music Shops of the time operated a cartel as I was expected at each shop and offered the same price!!!! Coincidence or what?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: pirandello
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:06 PM

If the houses were in Merthyr Tydfil you could probably buy a couple of streets!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:31 AM

One of the reasons VINTAGE Martins are so expensive is that people (particularly owners)tend to promulgate myths about them. Some sound better than modern guitars but some don't. And as for a 1938 0018 being valuable enough to fund the purchase of two houses- well, maybe- if you had about 60 of them!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 10:29 AM

n the 70's I was fortunate enough to own a 1938 Martin 00018, my pride and joy. It was better recieved than I was. However I unfortunately had to sell it to keep a roof over my head. A couple of years ago I bought a new 00018 but it was not the same. Does the years dim the memory or do they not make 'um like they use to?

Two points:

1) In the thirties and early forties Martins were more lightly braced. When people started trying to use them for rhythm in string band settings, they strung them with heavier and heavier strings and beat on them harder. Martin started getting more warranty claims than they could afford. So they beefed up the bracing. That made the guitars more durable, but hurt the sound. Now they're selling the more lightly braced models again, as "vintage" versions, at a premium price. Doesn't seem quite fair, but what do I know about merchandising?

2) There is no quick way to duplicate the effect of 40 years of aging and being played, on guitar wood. None.

If you'd kept the '38, you could probably sell it now and buy a couple of houses, live in one and collect rent on the other...

Peter

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 04:44 PM

In the 70's I was fortunate enough to own a 1938 Martin 00018, my pride and joy. It was better recieved than I was. However I unfortunately had to sell it to keep a roof over my head. A couple of years ago I bought a new 00018 but it was not the same. Does the years dim the memory or do they not make 'um like they use to?
Incidently I now play an Avalon L32c. Now that IS a fine guitar!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: pirandello
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 08:44 AM

Anything is expensive if you can't afford it!
Martin guitars, like any other, will vary in perceived quality of tone; but that is so subjective as to be almost meaningless.
I have owned close on a dozen Martins and currently own one, a 0000-36 Custom and three Gibsons; Advanced Jumbo, SJ 200 and J185 Koa Custom.
They were all expensive but what I'm paying for is premium tonewoods, great build quality and superb tone. It takes a long time to find really great sounding examples but, if you take your time looking, they are out there and when you find THE one the expense is easily justified.
I'm also paying for intangibles; heritage, ownership of a bit of guitar building history and pride of ownership.
If you think Martins are expensive then take a look at Jeff Traugott's creations-they start at $26,000. Martin prices pale into insignificance...
As to what's the best guitar; it only exists in the ears and hands of the buyer irrespective of the name on the headstock.
In 1969 my lowly Yamaha FG 180 was the best I could afford and at £40.90p was a lot of pocket money for a 16 year old kid.
It's all relative and it's all good.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Peter Green
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 08:52 AM

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: English Jon
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:04 AM

They aren't! The dollar is worth bugger all, so now is a great time to have one sent over from the states.

Cheers,
Jon

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: pirandello
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:26 AM

james, re: your Martin and intonation. Firstly, ANY guitar, if it has a scale length calculated by the Rule of 18 (and most have) will show discrepancies in intonation. This is a mathematical fact of tempered tuning and no guitar can be made to play perfectly in tune in every key, no matter how stellar the builder, or how accurately the fret positions or bridge location have been calculated. If your guitar was perfectly intonated in the key of D it would sound horribly out of tune in A, which is why I never use an electronic tuner as very few except the most expensive Peterson stroboscopic models allow for tempered tuning.
There are some ways to marginally improve intonation like the Earvana nut and the Buzz Feiten tuning system but, ultimately, you still have to compromise and the shorter the scale the more difficult it is to achieve acceptable intonation.
You just have to use your ear and sweeten the tuning to suit the guitar; for example most of my guitars need the bottom E flattened a touch as well as the top E and B.
Most Martins now have compensated bridge saddles, particularly on the B string, but, again, you are limited in how much adjustment you can do by the width of the saddle.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Texas Guitar Guy
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 02:48 PM

I'm so grateful to Bob Taylor for making good guitars for the masses. Keeps them from buying all the truly great Martins that those of us with a more discrening ear.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 10:28 AM

Mediums
G ¦¬]

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,james t
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 10:21 AM

thanks for the encouragement giok, yeah, i intend to do just that anyway, being a patient kind of guy. the question of the guitar's price, of course, looms in the background of this discussion but i trust you'd agree that most cheaper guitars are exactly that, "cheap" with the possible exception here and there... (my brother has a yamaha jumbo that plays like a rolls). As for the elixirs, i find them at first to be smooth and quick, the first impression being like wow what tone! but after a couple of weeks i find the tone to be irregular, with funky second and third harmonics detectable in open string playing, which does not at all lend itself to achieving harmonious intonation, does it... so when the current set of elixir lights runs itself thin, i take your advice and try the newtones. AND i will make an appointment with the luthier. Yes, I do know that about 99% of Martin acquirers end up admitting they've had to have it regulated at the outset for this and that. Let's hope that'll do the trick 'cause, once again, it's just a beautiful instrument otherwise that's just waiting to sing. last question : are those medium or light newtones you've got on your '97 martin?

james t

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 10:05 AM

Well my D28, also the realisation of a lifetimes ambition to own one, is of 1997 vintage. I was pleased with it when I first got it, and over time it has 'played in' beautifully. However the biggest improvement to both it's intonation and playability was when last year I took it to my Luthier and got it 'Set up' He didn't do that much, checked all the grooves in the nut were the right width, and that the strings laid flat in them all the way along, he then took out the saddle and sanded it down to lower the action a bit, and he reamed out the peg holes to they sat in there more snugly. It made the guitar so much easier to play, and less painful on the fingertips too.
As for strings I struggled for a while, didn't like the Martin strings, took to D'Addarios, then tried Elixir. I loathed Elixir, found them 'slippy'. Then I tried Newtone strings, and for me they are the best I have found so far.
So persist with you D28, consider getting it set up, and try Newtone strings. They do take time to play in, most guitars do.
Giok

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,james t
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 09:37 AM

this debate is certainly informative for me who have just acquired a D28 (2005) a guitar which i have aspired to since beginning to strum 40 years ago when i was being brought up on the kingston trio, the guys who really first used the things to their potential.

i do have to agree though, having played some fine instruments over the years and some collector's models, that i am for the moment a bit disappointed with the D28 for one reason mainly. The projection is just about right (have tried both lights and mediums -- elixirs, martins, you name it...), the action is ok, i was expecting a tougher go at it, but i guess after 40 years of playing my chops are in shape. The looks and durability are not to be questioned, the ebony fingerboard is uniform even if the spruce grain in not exactly straight but does contain two or three "unique" irregularities... No, the ONE thing that is irking me for the moment is ... the intonation!!!!

The dude you said above "if the E comes through clear then the A is out", I would be even more specific and say its the second B string that doesn't want to adhere when going through even the most basic chord progressions. The problem seems to level out though when you tune by tempering (and tampering) so that even in C or D bar chords in any position it rings truer. I do know a bit what I'm talking about having not only played all styles over the years in all conditions with and without amplification but also from experience as a pianist (player and tuner). so much that the intonation "problem" has been bumming me out, proportionally to my expectations for finally owning the mythical D28.

I've been surfing on the web for the past week looking for help/hope as to this intonation tweak-out and that's what brought me here today.
I'm prepared to see a qualified and creative luthier but certainly do not see the point of having to re-do the instrument.

By the way, have also played some fine sounding Taylors, even the damn 310 sounds great, i can only imagine what a fine sounding instrument the 810 must be... hell, I'm not married to Martin, just looking for a reliable (tone and intonation-wise) instrument that will surprise me every day, make me and others smile any time I bring it out.

Thanks for reading me and love to all

james t

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: mandotim
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:31 AM

I've seen Michael Chapman and Gordon Giltrap playing Fylde guitars; in fact I played Michaels old Fylde Caliban last night. Gordon Giltrap has a Fylde 'signature' model, but also has a collection of Rob Armstrong guitars. Maartin Allcock plays Sobell, Armstrong and ...wait for it...Crafter guitars. Last time I saw Ralph McTell he had two guitars on stage; one was a Martin D28, and the other was a Santa Cruz.
Tim

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Grimmy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 07:51 AM

Martins are undoubtedly the standard by which other guitars are judged. However, it is interesting to note just how many of the 'big name' British folk/celtic guitarists DON'T play Martins. This is a quick list of the artists (all nationalities) I've seen in the past 12 months, together with their guitar make:

Bert Jansch - Yamaha
John Renbourn - Bown
Clive Carroll - Bown
Ralph McTell - Yamaha
Martin Simpson - Sobell
Pierre Bensusan - Ryan
Martin Carthy - Martin (his 'other' guitar is a Fylde)
Davy Graham - unknown (Woolworths?)
Tony McManus - Kelday
Kelly Joe Phelps - Martin
Keith Hinchliffe - Brook
Michael Chapman - ? (not Martin)
Gordon Giltrap - various (not Martin)
Thomas Lieb - Lowden

I offer this as an observation only. You may draw your own conclusions.