Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:06 AM

Jean Larrivee makes a great guitar. I wish . . . .

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:04 AM

That's more like it Peace. More specifically the Mac apples grown around the southern part of Georgian Bay ... damned good apples they are.

As much as I'm happy with my China Blueridge and my Taylor .. one day I'd like to get a Martin d-35.

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:03 AM

OK, sIx: They are the Macintosh apple of guitars.

Mooh's right however; a good guitar is a good guitar. I have a good Martin. I have played a few bad ones over the years. BUT, very few bad ones.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Mooh
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 07:10 AM

"That Martin sound" really cracks me up. It only means the company believes they can con the market with some unrealistic ideal. Every guitar sounds different, some more different than others. Most guitars that meet the threshold of build and materials quality, playability, and appearance will sound acceptable, and some of those guitars will sound superior to the majority of ears. As for an individual "sound", that depends on what the individual hears, or even wants to hear. Various Martin models sound variously different, otherwise why make so many models? And, they sound as various and different as models by other builders.

Don't get me wrong, I love many Martins, and would really like a nice dread someday, but if a competing builder's guitar pleased my ears as much that would be good too.

The fact that you can get as good (and sometimes better) a guitar from another manufacturer is just an apples and oranges thing, or in my case, peaches.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 11:12 PM

Hmmmmm ..... it's all urban legend Peace.

http://www.snopes.com/autos/dream/rolls.asp

So .. why are Rolls Royces so expensive?

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 07:05 PM

"Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?"

Same reason Rolls Royce are so expensive. Quality.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 07:02 PM

" I don't think "name" accounts for much any more and I don't give a monkey's ankle what Martin Gibson thinks about it."

amen to that Mooman!

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Deckman
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 02:28 PM

Being 168 years olde, I've owned many guitars ... Martins, Takimine's, others. I've always returned to Martins. For the last 15 years, or so, I've kept two Martins: A 1922 steel string,and a 1938 Classic. The classic does play itself. It's by far the most responsive, gentle, yet full voiced instrument I've ever had the honor of owning.

But, as I said earlier, the qualities in a guitar are very personal and sometimes fleeting ... just like a woman! CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Auggie
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 02:06 PM

Bee-dubya-ell-

What kind of Santa Cruz do you use for finger picking?

I have 3 Martins, all different from each other in woods, tone and action, and all fall into the "never to part with" catagory.

But when it was time to find something to just fingerpick with, I wound up with a little 00 size Santa Cruz. Bought it a month ago, and if I could only keep two guitars, it would be the Cruz and one of the CFM's.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: mooman
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 10:24 AM

Each to their own.

I've owned a Martin 000-18, a Gibson J-45, a Guild D-25, a Manson Kingfisher (made personally by Andy Manson), a Lowden and a custom Lakewood M-18 (made personally by Martin Seeliger) over the years (amongst others).

The €360 (USD 435) Korean small luthier-shop-made "unknown brand" tiger maple-topped archtop (with extensive and exquisite abalone inlay) I now almost exclusively use (apart from a Czech-made Regal Duolian copy for some music) actually beats all of these (some of which are at the €4000 - €5000 price tag these days).

Same with the mandolin family. I own one expensive "name" instrument, an outstanding Terry Docherty OM bought second-hand from another Mudcatter. My mandolin and tenor mandola are both made by a virtually unknown UK luthier, the latter to my own specifications, for a very democratic price.

I don't think "name" accounts for much any more and I don't give a monkey's ankle what Martin Gibson thinks about it.

Peace,

moo

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John Hardly
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 10:17 AM

BWL,

Funny, I remember some guy on another guitar forum talking in glowing terms about his new Martin X series guitar (chipboard guitar with print-of-wood laminate -- no kidding -- they now make camo-guitars the same way -- don't believe me? check this out ). He was saying how this X series guitar had that "Martin sound".

hmmm.

So, the......

D28
HD28
D18
OM28
OM18
00028
00018
0018
0028
D15
D16
OM15
OM16
D28VS
D18VS
D28GE
D18GE
D35
D40
D42
D45
J18
J28
M35
CEO4
CEO5

...and the "smart wood series", and the X series, and the "Road" series...

ALL have that "Martin sound"?

And one doesn't like the Martin neck....

.....hmmmm...

would that be the pre-'50s neck, or the modified "V" neck, or the new low profile neck, or the.......

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 09:53 AM

I own three Martins. Two of them are the inexpensive 15 Series, and the other is a DC-28 (a D-28 with a cutaway) that I bought used. I have no complaints with any of them. And there's no doubt that the finest sounding guitars I've ever played have been older Martins.

But there's a difference between paying $500 for a 15 Series guitar or $800 for that used DC-28 and paying $2000 for a new D-28. I doubt I would ever buy a brand new higher end (Standard Series, Vintage Series etc.) Martin. I'm over the "Martin mystique" except when it comes to fine vintage instruments. When I decided my fingerpicking had progressed far enough to deserve a good small-bodied guitar, I didn't even think about a Martin, but went straight to a Santa Cruz.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 10:31 PM

Thanks Stolling Johnny I would have never guessed !! You are a scolar and a gentleman .. My wife keeps handing me the dictionary .

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 07:33 PM

I own a Taylor 814ce, but before that I tried every martin I could find, and they just sounded flat. The workmanship seemed OK at fisrt glance, but just not precise enough, and the action is way to high for me on most Martins. So, I had basically given up on martins as a high end guitar purchase...until I played a Tom Petty signature model at Guitar center. AWESOME guitar...I am in the process of putting my musicman silhouette down as payment to put it on lay away, its worth it. In my opinion, you want precision and playabilty, go with Taylor. Martin is great, but you REALLY have to look for something special because they are really inconsistent.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:42 PM

T-e-n-u-r-e.   :-)

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:26 AM

Senor, i tink de martin gitar is xpensive cos she cost a lot of money: no?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:15 AM

I remember reading an interview with the late Waylon Jennings. Somebody complimented him on his old telecaster, he said - yup, guess it was the way they pissed on the wood that year

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 09:50 PM

There is a great article in the Bostonia magazine this month on Christian Martin and his tenyer (sp?) as head of the company . Its a very interesting article if you can get a chance to read it .
            It sounds like he has quite a passion for wood and hand work of a type his dad was not interested in.Funny ><<><> his dad ran the place in the early 70's .
          All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 09:27 AM

Midchuck - (10 Oct 05 - 10:52AM)

Point well taken ...

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,sorfingers
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:59 PM

Nope theres absolutely no point in comparing brands!

I have played on Taylors that were superb but the very next month others that were rubbish. The other day I got hold of a Larivee that was on sale for 1019 bucks and it was a box to die for, superb and no equal in a place full of high dollar boxes.

Once had a used rosewood Fender that almost played itself. There's no such a thing as buying unseen untried 'WOODEN' guitars! You have to try first and be satisfied with what you get.

We now have a Martin DM - because we liked it so much when we tried it, and we did not know at the time it was a Martin! Only a couple of years in use it is now in the Guitar hopital for wear on the fretboard and frets, also needs some other adjustments. I wouldn't trade it for anything even another Martin, again, because I like it soooo much.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,potbelly
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:15 PM

u gave away aj45 realy.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Cumbrian
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:58 AM

Sorry to jump into this discussion so late, but are run on the mill Martins really that expensive ? ( by run of the mill, I mean standard series down and at a push the vintage series guitars ).
We have to start with the premise that everything is relative, and there is always someone who can refer to a great sounding Yamaha etc. which cost a fraction of the price of perceieved high end brand guitars ( experience has shown me that there are plenty of guitars out there that justify this claim ), however, Martins, as good as they can be, are now just one of a number of high output manufacturers within the same general price bracket.
Where Martin do struggle to compete and justify their prices, is at the higher end of their range, especially when compared with the plethora of smaller output operations ( Collings and Santa Cruz to mention but two US buiders, plus some great builders outside the USA. take Fylde and Lowden as examples, offering custom designs in beautiful master grade woods
Beyond this group is a mass of very special small shop, single luthier operations who can offer incredible attention to detail and some remarkable guitars.
Within these two latter catergories are instruments that bring Martin's general output down into the mid range of acoustic guitar pricing ( I said everything was relative ).
At the end of the day, whether or not something can be conceived as expensive or not is down the value that the potential purchaser places upon the item in question. If someone has always dreamt of owning a D28 or a 00028, the current prices make this as reasonable a possiblilty as it has ever been.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:30 AM

There's several questions, all conflated here.
1) Are new Martin guitars worth the asking price?
2) Are there other NEW guitars offering a better tone for the money?
3) Is there anything out there as good as an old Martin?

to #1 and 2-- WHICH new Martin? They offer such a bewildering assortment of models that if what you "want" is to play something with a Martin label, you can get it, and it won't be (IMHO) as good a guitar as some others out there at the same price.

to #3: Again IMHO-- the Martins of 1920-1945 can't be beat. You can expect trouble every time you put a capo on and need to retune all six strings to get back in tune, but it's worth the effort if you're going to record with it. If you're doing a gig, it's probably a good idea to have a newer guitar which will have good intonation when capoed. I can think of several old time musicians (Tracy Schwarz, Kay Justice, others) who use a Taylor at gigs for just that reason.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Duke
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:09 AM

I agree! My 60's guitar is the best sounding guitar that I have ever played. Including the new Martins. I think the change in wood made a change in the sound.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:03 AM

I wonder why Doc Watson doesn't play a Martin?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:01 AM

Even I could make a Santa Cruz sound good!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Midchuck
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:52 AM

Last I heard, Tony Rice was plugging Santa Cruz guitars, and making them sound damn good too.

Yeah, but keep in mind that both Santa Cruz and Collings have been very successful essentially by copying old Martin (and a few Gibson) guitars, but making them sound even better, and selling them for top dollar.

No matter what Tony Rice plays, he'll always be associated with the The D-28 - the one that Clarence enlarged the soundhole on, and installed an old Guild fingerboard, and that TR still has but doesn't play out much because it has to much historical value. Martin, Collings and Santa Cruz have all produced close copies.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 10:20 AM

Last I heard, Tony Rice was plugging Santa Cruz guitars, and making them sound damn good too.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 09:32 AM

By the way, I spent an evening with Ramblin' Jack and he loved my Taylor. We swapped guitars during the evening; he played mine and I played his Martin. Nice guitar, but I was glad to get my Taylor back.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 09:26 AM

When Roy Rogers was working there were no Taylors.

Tommy Smothers played a Guild on the old Smothers brothers show.

Dan Crary, a world famous bluegrass picker plays a Taylor, and if you watch closely you will see more and more Taylors on tv.
Martin does build some great guitars, but they are not the only game in town anymore.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 10:50 PM

Cool beans, sIx... That's whats it's all about anyway...

I've got a cheapie Syaria small bodied guitar that I gave my son when he was about 13 years old and he lived with his mom in a house where there where temp extremes and humidfity extreems and cat pee extremes...

Need;erss tp say, thios wonderfull soundin guitra is now a beat up, cracked, structurally compromised guitar...

Too bad... I would have kept on top of it... It was easilly as good as my '66 Martibn in terms of tone and playability....

Maybe one day I'll get it fixed... Maybe not.....

Bobert

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 10:34 PM

I have to admit Bobert when I first noticed your list I thought it was famous guitarists who are Freemasons!

I'm certainly not a Martin basher ... If I could justify the expense, I'd certainly get a HD35, again if I could find one that sounds exceptional! Just jokin .... but as previously mentioned I bought my Taylor cause I fell for the tone, resonance, playability it called out to me. I've had a Guild, Yamaha sushi board and Gibson 335 in my past, but have not relished any of them as much as my Taylor ... bottom line. Never have been affected by GAS, I always stick to one main guitar. Nothing makes a guitar player happier than being completely sastisfied with his main axe. Mine just happens to be a Taylor.

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:48 PM

Not that I wouldn't take a freebee if it was offered, Auggie... Sho nuff would..

Hey, I'm just happy to have mine... I bought it in 1966, have the Owner's Certificate in the safety deposit box and a couple years ago, after 30 some years of my abuse to my Martin, ghot aneck reset done under warrenty... They even patched up a couple cracks I know I cuased over the years....

Hey, I bought the guitar in 1966 and it's still under warrenty!!!

But better than that, it sounds better than it ever has..

No brag, just fact...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:34 PM

I would say "Aint options wonderful ! "

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Auggie
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:32 PM

C.F. Martin has always made a point of publicizing the fact that NOBODY gets a Martin in exchange for promos or publicity.

Not Neil Young, not Johnny Cash, not even Bobert.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:15 PM

Like I said, sIx, this was just a starter's list.... Yeah, sure, some of these folks mighta gotten some promo guitars from Martin, but guess what??? Thay played 'um... Hey, if some guitar company offered me a guitar, sho nuffg I'd take it, but if it din't play good, I wouldn't perform with it...

These folks I listed all have perforemed with their Martins...

But this is just the tip of iceburg when it come to folks who prefer to perform with Martins...

You Martin bashers can twist whatever you want but, botoom line, lotta folks like the sound that they get outtta these guitars...

Ain't badmouthin' none others here but you gonna pick on Martins as over-rated, yer gonna get a lot of arguements from folks other than myself... Like the list of folks I posted above...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:44 PM

Looks to me like it's horses for courses - as we say over here in the UK.
Another story - when I bought my HD 28 in 1994 I took my Yamaha FG 180 to the shop - a place called Musicsound in Doncaster England. Reason being, they had private rooms for playing " quality " guitars and I wanted to be able to compare sounds - I hope that makes sense .
At first I thought, maybe I could save money by buying a second hand Martin ( again I hope THAT makes sense ). I played all the second -hand guitars but none really sounded or felt any better than what I already had so I never realy pressed the issue.
One had a price tag of £3,500 ( say $7,000-ish in the U.S.A.) and when I played it it sounded like shite so I went and sourced a new one, and after 5 hours of deliberation , I bought what I bought a HD 28.
Whilst in the playing room, a guy played the £3,500 second-hand guitar ( I'd previously tried ) and he prononced it - not bad.
I dismissed it for two reasons No.1. - 'cos it wasn't as good as the cheap Yamaha I had with me and No.2 'cos it was twice the price of the new guitar which I eventually bought.
Regarding the £3,500 - it turned out the shop had all the documentation / the guitar was fully authenticated as previously being owned by Mr. Neil Young ( the famous one ).
I suppose it might have made a useful investment - but I was looking for a decent guitar.
I bought my guitar from said establishment in 1994 so I'm sure my story will not be difficult to verify ,I also remember that the establishment was desperate to purchase from any source, Marshall valve amps for resale to the USA, he reckoned he could sell all that he could get his hands upon.
As a guy who plays through PA / Amp System it meant nothing to me but I had to listen ..............

Such is life

Cheers ,Pete

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:25 PM

Hey Bobert ... noticed Paul McCartney on the list ... just saw an ad recently of him promoting the Epiphone Mastercraft!

Kewl seeing Roy Rogers on the list.

Ya forgot Elivis Presly.

Ya forgot Neil Young ... but hey, wasn't that a Taylor he was seen playing at Molson Park for Live 8?!?!?! Yikes !!!

Anyway ... if I was a pro making big $$ I'd probably be on the list too ... and I'd probably have a Taylor or 2 also. But I'm just some guy from New Brunswick who plays a Taylor, with a Blueridge for backup.

sIx :)

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:18 PM

..and how many of them got their guitars free in endorsement deals from Martin !!!???

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:14 PM

And just fir grins, these are just a few folks who also play Martins:

Roger McGuinn
Stephen Stills
Steve Miller
Mike Longworth
Bill Staines
The Shaw Bothers
Brad Marshall of Marshall Artz
Kevin Artz of Marshall Artz
Shawn Colin
Dick Dale
Mark Erelli
Frank Hannon of Tesla
Scott Johnson of Tesla
Roy Rogers
Andy Summers of the Police
Keithe Richards of the Stones
Rufus Waunwright
Tom Petty
The Smothers Borhters
Chris Thile of the Tone Poets
Mike Marshall of the Tone Poets
Eliza Gilkyson
Peter Rowan
Tony Rice
Josh Rouse
Ramblin' Jake Elliot
Rick Robbins
Tom Paxton
Judy Collins
Paul Kantner of the Jefferson Airplane
John Prine
Buffie St. Marie
Jackson Browne
Janis Ian
Krsi Krstofferson
Clay Hess
Ricky Scaggs
the late Eva Cassidy
Paul Simon
Rob Thran
Hanl Cramer
June Steans of the Louvin Bros
Charlie Louvin of the Louvin Bros.
Mac Wiseman
the late Jim Croce
Paul McCartney
Nick Drale
Charlie Walker of the Country Gentlemen
Mark Knopfer
and Willie Nelson...

Bobert

And thems is jus fir starters!!!...

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:00 PM

Aint opinions wonderful?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Auggie
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:36 PM

Gotta second Midchuck's point of view.
My 00-42 will cut through a ton of voices, strings and pianos as well as any of my dreads.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:35 PM

Good one Peter . !! I have a 1930's Kallamazoo the size of an O18 we could add to the list of house flateners.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Midchuck
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:22 PM

Those small body guitars just don't have what it takes in my opinion.

Any more of that and I'll have to drive to Portland with the 0002H Collings, hit one open chord, and blow your house into the bay!

Peter.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:13 PM

Its always fun looking outside ones own field of vision. My wife needed a tenor Viola De Gomba made by her dad , Don Warnock and one came on the market last year . After getting it ( I used the second morgage!) we added up all of my guitars and banjos and they did not match the price of Her tenor viol. So what we consider expensive has somthing to do with perseption . I think a new ford ranger costing 20 + thousand is over priced; yes obseen.
       I got a new OOO18 Martin Carthy model that is just incredable in a room on a mike and most importantly for me in the studio . It cost a ton of money but for what I get from it I do not consider it in the least bit exspensive . This being said by a potter who dosent mind selling a good vase for $500.00 or more.
      Oh on the high action point . If you realy SOUND the instroment the strings have to be a bit higher. A square dance guitar needed to speak up and to make it speak you needed to HIT the strings . Hitting a modern set up guitar ready for an amp and it not only buzzes it sounds like abuse of some kind .
          That said the Taylor has the best electrics on a factory set up acoustic I have ever heard . Now if we could raise the action so I could hear the tone of the thing ....Sorry Kendell just joking ...
          Different Guitars different tones different jobs : quality cost money and is worth the effort to obtain them . What a joy we have so much to choose from ! All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 05:47 PM

apples and oranges. Have him play an 810 Taylor and he will throw rocks at the Gibson.Those small body guitars just don't have what it takes in my opinion.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 05:09 PM

I have a friend who got rid of his Martin (OM1) when he got a Taylor (315CE). Then he got another Taylor (512CE). Then he sold the Taylors and I helped him find a Gibson J-45. It was only GBP999, new. He is happy. It sounds (and smells) great, both acoustic and plugged. He likes it much better than the Martin or the Taylors.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 04:08 PM

The fact is that all top quality guitars are expensive.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Grab
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 03:59 PM

If you thought Martins were expensive, how about Gibson? Sheesh! If it wasn't for selling Les Pauls to rockers, Gibson would be *so* dead - talk about resting on their laurels...

Graham.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 12:27 PM

I don't care what kind of guitar you used on that CD, I love it!