Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?

Subject: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 11 Oct 05 - 11:06 PM

My grandfather was an artist, and in Googling him recently I came on these sets of drawings at auction, which are obviously story illustrations.

The first shows a fox (not a wolf!) with a hen, a duck (?) and a mouse on its back. I can almost remember that story, but not quite.

The second has a woman in a tree, with a bear sniffing her shoe (and ignoring the basket of berries she left on the ground!). This doesn't ring any bells for me.

He was born in Australia and studied art in Japan (ran out of money on the way to Paris...). I think the Japanese style is really visible here.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 12:37 AM

Whoops, here's the fox & co.

~ Becky

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 03:57 PM

Neither of these two brings any specific recall as something I've seen, but the fox suggests any of the numerous "nursery tales" on the theme of "don't take help from strangers."

The usual is "small defenseless critters" facing a task (cross the river, make a long journey, etc.) and the fox offers to help. Bad things happen to the critters. (In a few variants, bad things happen to the fox.)

Numerous authors produced children's books that were "barely not plagiarism" of a few publishers' © "Mother Goose style" collections, during your gandpa's era and for a time after he appears to have been most active. If you have any records of names of authors with whom he worked, you might find more searching a few of them, since often the illustrators got little mention in the press clippings.

Spinoffs of Aesop's Fables were also quite popular, and there were numerous "almost like Aesop" books, so searching "Mother Goose" and/or "Aesop" might get you lucky - or not - when you've exhausted more direct search strings.

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 03:23 AM

The duck(?) looks like a dove for me

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 07:01 PM

Great pictures Becky. Thank you. Going through my Folklore collection. Bound to be someone here to come up with some ideas. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 07:16 PM

"The Little Snow Girl" seems to fit with the little girl and the bear picture, Becky. It's a Russian folktale. There are several hits using Google.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 08:18 PM

Just found another Russian tale called "The Hen, the Mouse, and a Grouse" but I can't find the actual story yet - just the title. Could be a lead? Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:30 PM

Joy, you seem to be onto something. And, the "SurLaLune Fairy Tale Pages" seem to be a good place to inquire (it came up when I googled on some of your ideas).

I wasn't comfortable calling that other bird a duck, it really does look more like a quail/grouse/ptarmigan kind of fowl. Maybe a dove, though, Wilfried.

The only problem with "The Little Snow Girl" is that that looks like a middle-aged woman, not a girl in the tree. Otherwise, it fits the story.

~ Becky

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 10:43 PM

Your illustration makes me think it's Henny Penny--you know, "The Sky is falling! The sky is falling! I'm going to tell the King!"

Other animals join Henny Penny on the way, but no-one knows how to get to the King's palace. The fox volunteers to guide them, because he knows the way. Indeed, it seems it's a long way, so they'd better ride on his back. He takes them to a hole, which, it seems, is a shortcut to the King's palace, and induces them to follow him down the hole.

You can fill in the rest.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Willa
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 06:13 PM

I thought it was Henny Penny, too.
'Confused hen Henny Penny thinks the sky is falling when an acorn falls from a tree and hits her on the head. She manages to convince her barnyard pals to accompany her to the king`s castle so that they can warn him about the situation. Unfortunately clever Foxy Loxy has plans of his own for these silly birds. This traditional retelling ends by explaining that Foxy Loxy and his family enjoyed eating Henny Penny and her friends for dinner.'

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 06:23 PM

You're right, Becky the first one does look like an adult woman. Pity! It fits so well. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 03:58 PM

Becky -

The almost total absence of images on the web suggest that perhaps someone has asserted a copyright claim on most of his works, or that they're in someone's private collection. There is a fair "name presence," but almost no images.

Do you maybe have cousins who might have info and/or work that got handed down? It can be "a long row to hoe" but a bit of genealogical searching might turn up distant family with a whole lot of helpful info - (or maybe just descendants with a lot of fanciful imaginary tales to tell).

I found one archive listing that indicates they have 47 cartoons he did for "Punch" magazine, apparently all political, but they're "in a folder" and you have to visit the library to see them. A separate listing indicates another library has a few, again nearly all political, from his (longer?) time with "Puck" magazine; and he apparently started and published briefly a mag called "Chic." All these publications are defunct, and probably any works that remain will have passed either to (his?) descendants or to (university?) archive collections.

The reference up above somewhere to his "specializing in childrens art" in his teaching would of course be the most direct connection to folklore; although if there was a demand for old political slogans some of his cartoon titles would have made great punch-lines for some of the earliest activists - or for their granddaddies.

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 04:13 PM

OOPS -

The "reference up above" was to a different artist in another thread. CRS strikes again. But we do know that Frank did some illustrations for children's books from the samples linked above.

Sorry.

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 06:27 PM

Yes, thanks, John, I'm familiar in with the course of Frank A. Nankivell's career; my mother typed his memoir for him in the '40s, and my immediate family probably has the bulk of the family holdings of his art (such as they are), since he lived with my parents at the end of his life. (He died 2 years before I was born). But, he was a professional artist so most of his work went out into the world and wasn't kept in a scrapbook at home. His career began about 1890, 30 years before my father (his third and the only currently living child) was born. The miracle of modern digital technology permits my older sister and me to Google him every so often out of curiosity to see what might be out there.

I appreciate the collective application of thinking caps by those who have taken an interest in the folklore in my fairly minor question about these particular illustrations. My father has no answers; he probably never saw that book.

I also appreciate the silent attention of Joe or a clone.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 08:54 PM

I would say the hen, the mouse and the grouse is a hit...

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 11:47 PM

A recent addition at the ARC website brought up the children's book illustrator Arthur Rackham (English, born 1867 - died 1939). They now show 30 Rackham illustrations, largely from Alice in Wonderland, but with a few from other books – Gulliver's Travels, Mother Goose, etc.

I don't see anything suggesting stories that might be similar those illustrated by your grandfather, but perhaps you'd be interested in viewing a more-or-less contemporary artist from a genre that grandpa did work in. I certainly don't intend any comparisons, just that knowing more of the genre may help you to appreciate your own relative all the more.

I suppose I could pretend to believe that searching out other artists in the same genre might offer you a chance of finding that "magic place" where all the info you want is sequestered on the web; but I don't think that's really too likely. The only "secondary reason" for posting is that this thread has brought forth a few 'catters with some interest in folk/children's illustrations and I couldn't think where else to post.

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 12:32 AM

The bear one illustrates an old folk tale from Russia...

   There once was a dirty old man named Kashurchek who was known to have a raging foot fetish, especially for the shoes of smelly old women who lived near the Pedoinka Forest.
   One old Pedoinkese hag named Swetlada was getting tired of Kashurchek stealing her shoes every other day for some hot sniff'n'spank action, so she stumped off into the forest to seek out the Baba Yaga.
   After many days journey, she found Baba Yaga's hut and spoke the secret words her old grandmother had told her would gain her an audience with the witch.
   "I have vodka here."
   After Baba Yaga had polished off the bottle, Swetlada broached the subject of her annoying neighbour. Baba Yaga promised to sort the matter out. And Swetlada, satisfied, left the hut and headed home.
   She didn't see the old pervert Kashurchek again, which was just fine with her.
   But one day, while gathering berries beside the woods, a large black bear rose up out of the bushes and lumbered towards her, growling and snuffling. Swetlada dropped her basket of fruit and hauled her old bones up a tree, losing a shoe in the process. She got herself a high perch on a branch and looked down at the bear. She was shocked to see the bear sitting on his haunches with his nose buried in her dropped shoe, sniffing loudly and wetly, in a state of ursine turgidity. Damned if the bear didn't resemble that old nuisance Kashurchek in some way.
   "It couldn't be, could it?" thought Swetlada.
   Just then, over the trees she spied Baba Yaga's hut spinning along quickly on its long chicken legs.
   "Baba Yaga! Baba Yaga! It is I, Swetlada! Help me!" called Swetlada in a high-pitched voice.
   The hut spun towards her tree and stopped a few feet away from her. The bear, lost in orgasmic rapture, ignored it.
   Baba Yaga poked her long nose out of her hut.
   "Did you turn Kashurchek into a bear?" asked Swetlada.
   "Maybe I did", cackled Baba Yaga.
   "Well, he has me trapped in this tree now", pleaded Swetlada. "Can you make him go away, please?"
   "Got any more of that vodka with you?" asked Baba Yaga, fixing Swetlada with her stink-eye and licking her iron teeth.
   "No", wept Swetlada. "I don't have anything with me and I' have even lost one of my shoes to that perverted bear."
   "Sucks to be you", shrugged Baba Yaga withdrawing into her hut which spun away on its stilt legs across the forest.
   And, for all you or I know, Swetlada is still sitting up in that tree today.

          The End


(hope that helps)

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 05:40 PM

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 10:41 PM

Rackham's always been a favorite of mine, JohninK. FAN's pictures made me think of him, too. Thanks for the link. I've one for you, if I can find your online galleries thread.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 10:51 PM

Is Little Snow Girl the same as the Ice Princess? ( think that is her name....?? Ice Queen, Ice Maiden...??)

Subject: RE: Folklore: what tales do these illustrate?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 02:19 AM

Becky -

The recent more generic thread was at BS: Web Art Update, although it started off dealing with one specific website. There's a link in that thread to an older one with more complete info on quite a few websites I've used in my "research."

The newer one is the best place for new info, probably; but the old one had more good sites - most of which I think are still valid links.

John