BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!

Subject: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 07:34 PM

The UK government have finally run out of excuses for their military action in Iraq.

The Foreign secretary Jack Straw speaking on BBC Newsnight, made the tacit admission that the end product of the slaughter was unlikely to be "democracy" as we know it.

Mr Straw appeared to envisage a federal Iraq of three distinct areas,
the kurdish area would be "mainly democratic"???
The Shia area would be "religious but not theocratic"??
And he didn't seem to know what would happen in the Sunni area.
Presumably they will just starve as the oil reserves will be in the Kurdish and Shiite areas.

The wheel has now gone full circle, from WMDs, regime change,building a "democratic society", the well of lies has finally run dry and in the process cost the lives of hundreds of thousands.

This war will shame the Labour Party and the British people who supported it for decades.
It was interesting to see even the hawks of the right wing press like David Aaronovich admit that every day they were moving futher away from outright support for the war.

The consensus seems to be that now we are in this mess,we must "see it through".....See it throught to what? Certainly not democracy, and these old men have started a conflict that they have as much chance of seeing an end to, as the young boys who die daily in their service....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 07:51 PM

Bad news fir ya, Ake...

Rememeber when Bush needed that last bit of "intellegence" so he could go before the American people and tell 'um that the British had told him that Saddam was trying to buy uranium from Niger??? Remember that one...Yeah, that was some college kids 20 year old term paper that the Blair's boy's rather amatuerishly altered, waa laa, Bush is usin' it in a Sate of the Union Adress as a reason to invade Iraq...

Well, now it is time fir Bush to return the favor and have Karl Rove come up with somethin' to repay Blair...

I asked the Wes Ginny Slide Rule to hypothosize an' ponderate what Rove would come up with, at present, it thinks that Rove will come up with some "escuse" that involves both Bill Clinton and a certain yet-to-be-identifed woman with first name and last names being of one sylable each... Ahhhh, anyone know where Fawn Hall has been hangin' lately???

Yeah, won't be no Monika Lewinski here but maybe Dawn Snow 'er somethin' like that...

Sho nuff won't be about anythin' as complicated as democracy...

But not to fear, there are plenty of excuses still in the Bush/Rove "think tanks" fir invadin' Iraq that haven't had so much as a test drive 'round the block...

Believable ones??? Different story as each new one is less believable that the last but these boys ain't gonna quit comin' up with new stories...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 08:20 PM

Sorry Bobert, but American politics confuse me mightily.

Here in the UK politicians still make some attempt to justify their actions...and thats not easy!!

In America they seem to treat the people who elect them as if they didn't exist and it seems to make the voters more partisan.

America seems ripe for revolt.
A mad authoritarian government, disintegrating health and welfare, a sick economy and a people who are being worked like slaves.

What are you all waiting for!! Remember all your folk heros of the past....Woody, Martin Luther King, Paul Robeson,many others.

And unlike the British the American people have the balls for it!!

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 09:56 PM

No, Ake, they don't...

Revolution to them is like maxin' out their latest dredit card... The average American thinks his or her only job in the world is consumin as much as he or she can while here on the planet... Not much more...

This ain't exactly a Petri dish for revolution... Convulsion, yeah...

But there is a part about yer hypothesis that is correct... The America of tomorrow will be ripe fir revolution...

Unbeknowst to most folks, Americans or other, the Republican Congress just passeda bankruptcy reform bill which will exempt the most preitory of the leaned, i.e., the credit card companies from being written off in bankruptcies... Bottom line, you charge it a credit card, you'll pay for it...

Now lotta folks say, "Hey, Bobert, ain'tm thjat the right thing to do?"

Well, no, it isn't.

Why???

Simple. These blooodsuckers target college kids... They target folks whjo allready are in too deep with credit and now they have protection from their preditory practices...

Not to mention usery interest rates... Like 22% APR!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, when the rest of America finds out how they have beern screwed, yeah, maybe a different set of circumsatnces that might bring about an actual revolution...

I have predicted that the supwer rich will find the coming years very uncomfy fri hittin' the road uin their million dollar tour buses with the SUV in tow and I'll hold to that prediction...

Yeah, the next American revolution will start in the South where Joe Six Pack figgures out he's gettin' a screwin... Now, Joe Sixpack ain't nuthin' that Boss Hogg wants to tangle with and, yeah, ol' Joe is gonna figgure it out, ain't gonna like it one bit and I predict that within 5 years, rich folks won't feel so comfy ridin' thru Dixie in their million dollar play buses...

Just a hunch...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Oct 05 - 10:17 PM

Fawn Hall now donates her time toward the eradication of dirty books.
She had a brief stint on the cable news networks last year.

The US revolt is not as ripe as you think.
When politicians like Schwartzenegger uses langauge like "the big government labor unions are ripping off the country" and "We are helping the poor by cutting taxes of the wealthy job producing citizens" ---people actually buy into it.

There was no outrage when Bush said last week in his press conference and on the heels of Bill Bennet's racist remarks, "I am personally disappointed with the blacks of this country. They did not vote in the numbers we wanted, even after I put 3 colored people in my cabinate!"

Sometimes I think that the people in America could watch GWB murder a 5 year old black child in cold blood on camera and the Bush apologists would be chanting self defense before the body was cold.

So, in general, having a racist murderer for a president is not grounds for revolt.
Sadly it is what his base likes.

Doubling the price of gas and heating fuel is a stronger issue in support of a revolt.

Perhaps my most pessimistic belief is that of Diebold voting machines churning out every desired Republican victory no matter what the actual count might be.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 12:44 AM

--and the latest stink about "Basra terrorists trained in Iran" looks---and smells--- suspiciously like the prelude to Blair support for any American aggression in Iran. I could be wrong---but that's exactly what I thought when I doubted that "WMDs " were supposedly ready to blooter us at 45min. notice. Tony can NEVER be believed after that one-----

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 12:51 AM

Wanted: now taking applications for revolutionary figurehead. Seeking someone with passionate beliefs, good speaking voice, and a penchant for hazardous duty. Candidate must be energetic, charismatic and idealistic. Sincerity required. Some travel. Prefer someone oblivious to the likelihood of assasination. Must have excellent communication skills and impassioned speechwriting experience. The ideal candidate will possess values, integrity and a good life insurance policy. Death benefits/health insurance/kevlar not provided. If you feel like you can contribute to the legacy of visionaries like JFK, Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr. don't delay, call us today.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 12:07 PM

Boab -

While I do not doubt that terrorists are being trained in Iran, I do not think that is a valid reason for invading a sovereign nation. Terrorists are being trained in every country in the Middle East if not Africa, Europe, and North and South America. It seems pretty obvious that you cannot fight terrorism by waging war.

If the U.S. wants to invade Iran, I think they will have to come up with a better excuse than to 'combat terrorism'.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 12:53 PM

This war will shame the Labour Party and the British people who supported it for decades.

I don't think that is fair ake. I for one think the Tories would have done the same. I think that has been a problem UK people have had more than US people. Over in the US, it seems there was the milder slightly more to the left democrats but over here, the opposition if we went for them was at least theoreticaly to the right of labour and potentialy even more able to turn to greed.

I did turn against labour and still swear I'll never vote for them while TB has any position but I think it was easier for me. The party race here is cons v lib dem, labour have not been a runner in my time in N Norfolk. I think, although many have hated Iraq, they have felt not to vote labour would be putting in a potentialy more damaging party.

Where I think the biggest shame lies (apart from the war...) is that TB changed the position of Labour so far to the right.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 01:00 PM

Terrorists are being trained in the USA on a daily basis too...by the US Marine Corps, the US Army Navy and Air Force, and the CIA. They go out into the World and terrorize people very effectively, better believe it.

All aggressive administrations fund terrorism and practice it, but they only CALL it terrorism when it is done BY somebody else TO someone they regard as a "friend". "Friend" is a term that in today's World means "business partner"...or..."source of income".

Newspeak, baby. Learn it. It's the path to power in Orwell's Amerika.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Raedwulf
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 01:24 PM

"...and in the process cost the lives of hundreds of thousands."

Proof, Ake? That's a BS figure plucked out of the air to impress those easily swayed by largely unsubtantiated opinion attempting to masquerade as fact. Around 100,000 died per yer in Iraq under Saddam during the duration of sanctions (the quoted figure, IIRC, was 1.2 million over 12 years), not as a direct result of sanctions, but as a direct result of Saddam's deliberate policy.

That's a fact (or as near as dammit). As far as my knowledge extends, the current death toll has not passed 100K, even including direct war casualties (i.e. uniformed & dead when the war was still officially on), & Western dead since (now numbering several thousand in its own right).

If the regime hadn't been toppled, there'd almost certainly be far more dead, far less freedom, & far more oppression. Of course, it'd have been far less well (i.e. virtually not) reported, Saddam's Sunni pets/powerbase would be much happier & the Islamic fanatics would find it much more difficult to operate in Iraq, but yeah, wouldn't the world be an oh so much better place...

LH - More BS. However much you or I (or anyone else) dislike the current policy, that does not qualify the grunts on the ground as terrorists. To suggest otherwise is fatuous. They're highly visible & relatively easy to target. An army of occupation, yes. Terrorists, no. More to the point, they may be making a pig's ear of the job (not their fault, blame the leadership again), but they're doing their best to protect the general populace & establish peaceful conditions. Items conspicuously absent from the usual definition of "terrorist activity", however much some might wish to misuse the term!

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 01:31 PM

Jon...I've never voted Conservative in my life, but I dont agree that they would have gone into Iraq.

The Iraqi involvment was very much "Blairs baby", a personal decision to support Bush, driven by a desperate need to make a place in history for himself, helped by a craven cabinet(with the exception of Robin Cook) and MPs who were too sheepish to make their views known.

I don't believe the Tories could have carried the vote in the H of C, as the Labour centre would certainly have voted against military action.
At the end of the day full responsibility must lie with Blair, and Labour will be stained by his war.
The representatives of the left were exposed as hypocritical once again, preferring to close eyes ears and mouths rather than stand up and be counted ...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 01:45 PM

OK, we will agree to dissagree on some (tories) of the above but

At the end of the day full responsibility must lie with Blair, and Labour will be stained by his war.
The representatives of the left were exposed as hypocritical once again, preferring to close eyes ears and mouths rather than stand up and be counted

OK, understand you a bit more now. I can agree with that except I spell his name Bliar.

The guy I thought came out with most credibilty was Robin Cook, sadly dead having moved from the position of being a politician I distrusted as much as Bliar to one I thought maybe might have some integrity.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 02:00 PM

Red..Good to hear from you!!

Listening to an Iraqi talking on TV last night, who has lived through the war and the "insurrection".
He said that the figure for all the dead in Iraq would be at least 150,000, although neither he , you, nor me will ever know the true number...Thats one of your facts scrubbed!!
He also said that in places like Fallujah and other towns that have been bombarded by the Americans, no one counted the dead civilians. They were buried in a very short time because of the risk of disease and in many cases the bodies were "un- recoverable"

I hope you are not going to become infected by "Teribusitis" the use of faux facts to beat the opposition into submission.
I never said my figure was a fact, but my educated guess will be as accurate as yours!!

When the Islamist mullahs get their way (wont be long ) we'll see
oppression all right,(the death is happening right now). We can also expect our young men to be slaughtered for many years to come, all to massage Blairs ego...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Raedwulf
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 02:34 PM

Hello Ake! :)

No, none of my facts are scrubbed. The only one I gave was that Saddam averaged 100K deaths per year (common estimates) over the lifetime of the sanctions. And that IS a fact, insofar as any such statistic, given its size & nature, can be.

The guesstimates I've seen for current casualties (none for a while, I must confess) vary so wildly that my only reliable conclusion is that at either end of scale they are largely driven by an ideological agenda, & very little by substantiatable facts. My own feeling (non-evidential) is that real deaths (& this includes those attributable to bad infrastructure (e.g. lack of medical facilities) caused by the conflict as per the 'sanctions' estimates) must be around the 100K mark by now.

This is still only a fraction (OK, a large fraction) of the deaths that we might have expected to see under Saddam. But the Iraqis have largely had at least the illusion of hope over the last couple of years, rather than the certainty of awful oppression. I know which I'd prefer to live under.

As to "Teribusitis" (I'm sure he'll be flattered!), no, I never deal in faux facts, you should know that. Your opening statement was very close to pure opinion, & motivated more by emotion than by reason. That is why I take issue with it, as you know. I'm certainly not trying to beat you into submission. But what were you thinking about when you said "hundreds of thousands", eh? That clearly implies 250-300K dead minimum, & is well out on the wild end of estimates. Faux fact? ;-)

Lastly, my opinion of Blair is... not... repeatable... in polite (or even Mudcat!) company, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim ego influences his judgement. I've often said of Blair that the principal difference 'twixt him & Thatcher is that he actually is sincere. The trouble is, I can never work out which of the two is more dangerous... :-/

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 03:07 PM

I've often said of Blair that the principal difference 'twixt him & Thatcher is that he actually is sincere.

Interesting. My own belief is that had I met them, Thatcher might have said to me "I'll punch you in the gob" and then do that but TB might have said "I'm not going to punch you in the gob" then punch me in the gob. I'd not like either clout but I'd prefer the person who told me honestly it was coming to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 05:41 PM

Raedwulf, everyone's estimates of the numbers of dead in Iraq are driven by an ideological agenda. And everyone's opinions are driven by an ideological agenda too. We just have different agendas, that's all.

Find me an unprejudiced debater in any debate and I'll find you a three-legged chicken with six inch teeth...

That's the way it is. You are prejudiced, I am prejudiced, we are all prejudiced. Not one of us is totally objective. When my prejudices do not dovetail sufficiently well with yours, it bugs you. And it bugs me. And THAT's why we debate with each other.

To know this is to experience a certain measure of detachment, amusement, and humility. At least, that's how it affects me, anyway... ;-)

It's interesting how much time and energy some people are willing to burn up on an internet forum just so they can feel "right" and that they "won". Humph. I know how far that goes. Not too damn far.

As Shakespeare said, it's mostly "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 08:23 PM

Raedwulf, I would say that almost everything that Blair has done or said in his political career was ego driven.

His campaigning has always been a blatant personality cult operation, and his sucking up to Bush has all the hallmarks of the school toady, issuing threats from a safe position behind the school bully.

As Bob Monkhouse once said, the public can easily spot a lack of sincerity, so if you can learn to fake that, you've got it made.

Tony fakes sincerity rather well, as has been shown by some of our best impressionists writing body language scripts to match his speeches.

This may well be why he speaks in such a jerky, uncoordinated way. He has to think about matching the gestures to the words.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 11:43 AM

It's fairly obvious that the vote on the Iraqi constitution will be positive this Sunday--it will pass. It's more than obvious that the Bush (and Blair) apologists will be patting themselves on the back and trumpeting the results of the vote.

However, it's not at all clear what the vote will really mean.

From what I've read, the vote just puts off grappling with the real issues. The Sunnis will supposedly have the right to ask for amendments. But when they do so, and the amendments don't pass, since the Sunnis are in the distinct minority, there may be even more of a backlash by Sunnis against the entire process.

So, despite what Bush apologists may say, this vote Sunday by no means solves the problem of the Iraq mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Arnie
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 12:10 PM

Maybe when we pull out of Iraq we could have another go at sorting out the problems in Somalia? This time, perhaps the Brits could storm the beaches, with BBC camera crews in position. Today the Somali coast is the worst place for piracy with yet another aid ship being comandeered by some militia or other (news report today). Unfortunately Somalia is living proof of what happens when the troops pull out and leave behind a vacuum - I'd hate to see that happen in Iraq, as no doubt would the millions of decent Iraqis who don't really care about the politics so long as they can earn a crust and bring up their families in some sort of secure society.....

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 10:45 PM

Vacuums are created when societies are drastically destabilized. That can happen due to a financial collapse, a revolution, a lost war, a great natural catastrophe, or a foreign invasion...or several of those in combination.

Iraq was once the most modernized and socially progressive Arab country in the Middle East (and under Saddam Hussein too). It then became gradually destabilized and ruined by a number of events:

1. The massive arming of Saddam by the USA and other countries, in order to attack Iran and police that general region for the USA.

2. Iraq's disastrous war with Iran in the 80's which killed an immense number of people on both sides and achieved nothing useful for anyone except arms dealers (many of those based in the USA).

3. Saddam's further reckless military ambitions after that (What do you do with a huge army that is sitting on its ass costing money?), which led to his foolish attack on Kuwait (given the green light by the American ambassador to Iraq at the time, April Glaspie).

4. The Gulf War, in which Iraq's army was crippled and partially massacred and their air force ceased to exist, and they lost sovereignty over most of their air space, and their economy was subsequently wrecked by sanctions, and they continued to be bombed for years afterwards.

5. And finally...George Bush's phony crusade to expose Saddam's "weapons of mass destruction", which turn out not to have even existed.

Result: A once rather modern and progressive Arab society has been turned into a vacuum by international political games aimed at destroying Iran's Islamic government and securing control of Iraq's oil.

None of it was done to help Kurds, Shiites, or any other victims of Saddam's autocratic rule. None of it. Saddam was first a handy USA hatchetman to kill Iranians, later a perfect excuse to wage an oil war.

None of this excuses Saddam for his own misbehaviour, but he is a mere bit player. The big players are oil companies and the US State Department and Whitehall.

The British were playing around in there a long time before the USA ever did, and doing much the same things. Just read a history of the region in the 20's and 30's if you don't believe me. They slaughtered people there. Oil is the name, and mass murder is the game.

If the USA pulls out now, will it create a vacuum? Yes. But the USA has ALREADY created a huge vacuum in Iraq in no uncertain terms. The USA has spent over 2 decades creating a vacuum in Iraq, and making the disintegration of that country virtually inevitable.

So I would submit that their pulling out now will only turn one kind of vacuum into another kind of vacuum, that's all. It will be an even more obvious vacuum. Will it be worse? For awhile, yes. You will probably end up with a Balkanization of Iraq into 3 separate regions, kind of like what happened with the former Yugoslavia.

What a mess.

You cannot break an egg with a sledgehammer and expect to magically repair it afterwards with a tube of crazy glue...

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Raedwulf
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 03:13 PM

3. Not given the red light would, I suspect, be a more accurate assessment than "given the green light". Apart from that, I do not dispute, George!!

The current fuck-up in the ME is 98% attributable to 2 governments, the British post WWI; who drew up artificial borders, ignoring the advice of experts such as T.E.Lawrence; & the modern American regime; who, gut instinct says, are possibly the most narrow-minded, limited, self-interested, parochial administration in history.

I admit, before anyone lays into me, that the latter may not be entirely true, but in this day & age even self interest requires a more than cursory look at the "big picture". The lack of forethought in the Bush administration is both astonishing & scary. No exit strategy at all. You'd think Vietnam had never happened... :(

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: DougR
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:18 PM

Bobert: Your post of 12 Oct. 05, seems you would support a revolution in the U. S.? A revolution would mean civil war, wouldn't it? How do you reconcile that with your anti-war stance and avowed support of world peace?

Ron Davies: I take it from your post that if the Iraqis vote to support the new proposed constitution you will be disappointed. Am I reading you right?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: GUEST,Shakey
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 07:11 AM

Clarke's end is the latest in a series of failed challenges from 'popular anti-war' candidates. Howard Dean was hailed as the exciting challenger to George W Bush but couldn't even get the nomination of his own party. John Kerry was half-hearted on Iraq but still tried to press the right buttons for the Stoppers and was beaten by a man who for the past four years has been described in the mass media as an imbecilic monkey. In Australia, Mark Latham committed his party to a Troops Out of Iraq position and was beaten by the pro-war PM. Charles Kennedy's position as leader of the Liberal Democrats has been brought into question after the anti-war stance of his party failed to bring the widely predicted electoral breakthrough while the pro-war British Prime Minister won a record third term. In Germany, Gerhard Schroeder's anti-war stance did nothing to stop his electoral defeat to a woman who said she wanted to 'mend fences' with Washington.

Each of those failures has its own story but together they show that the media generated idea of an electorate seething over Iraq and determined to make pro-war politicians pay at the polls was and is a myth.

See Harry's Place

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: GUEST,Stoopid Hillbilly
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 09:04 AM

Yeah. Now theys a usin the excuse "all them anti-war protesters is a causin tha enimy ta think he can win if he kills enuf americuns an guvment ofishals in erak"
Dum basturds all of em.

SH

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Kaleea
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 01:07 AM

Excuses? Somebody gave excuses? Oh, yeah, now I remember!
   
"Dear Amuricans, pleeze excuse me from all future blame. It's that durn Sadsack Insane's fault, so's we'unz gotta go over thar & eradicate that thar axix of evil.
       Yore Prez, Dubblepew.

P.S. If'n them thar intelluhjins reports ain't exaktamintly korrekt, don't blame me fer that too neither, cuz everybody knows I don't have nuthin' t' do wif intelluhjins."

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 07:23 PM

Ah, but it seems that there is a possibility that he did have sumpin to due wif de intellijenz. This will be very interesting.

The Fitzgerald inquiry into the outing of a CIA agent has reportedly extended to the possibility that Bush's minions may have been involved in the forging of intelligence to fool the US into a war. Could anything be more treasonous?!?!

This will be veerrrryyy interesting, and not funny.

(yes, innocent until proven guilty still applies, but keep watching)

See here.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 07:49 PM

Yo, Dougie,

Im just the messenger here... Seein' that Boss Hog is pushin' the workin' class toward an uprising and supportin' an uprisin' are two different things..,

I'd much arther see the greedy folks be more willing to share but history has shown they will not... Too bad fir ther greedy folks 'cause they have always seen able to manipulate "Southern Man" into helping them stay in power...

Problem is that the folks they neeed to stay inpower are the same folks theat are gettin' the biggest screwin' and guess what, Dougie, tyhey are one by one figurin' it out...

Let me jsut tell you about my three son-in-laws... They all live in North Carolina. They all voted for Bush in both 2000 and 2004... One has now confessed that Bush is hurting the country and sayin' he wished he hadn't voted for Bush. One is now on the fence and one is stilla Bushite... But these kids represent a slow cahnge in the way folks from the South look at yer party...

Yeah, I can envsion even more corruptuion by the current Repubs and more theivery of elections and that's the part thatr worries me most because Soputhern folks, as nice as they can be, can be real friggin' hostile... So hostile that Boss Hog might notta wanta be cuaght on their roads in his Million dollar bus with the car in tow...

At the rate we're going, I figure that's about 2, maybe 3 years down the road, but, hey I've predicted a lot of stuff that has com,e to pass and I'm stickin' with this prediction... If Boss Hog don't blink, Southern Man gonna put a knife in his back...

Do I want to see folks killed for their stupidity???? Heck no!!!

Juws' callin' it the way I see it unfoldin'..

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 09:56 PM

Doug--

For once in your Mudcat existence, it would be appreciated if you would actually read a post carefully, though I realize this may be asking too much for a Bush apologist.

I said the vote on the constitution "by no means solves the problem of the Iraqi mess" and I said why: because it "puts off grappling with the real issues".

Anything else is your own wishful thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq They've run out of excuses!!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 10:23 PM

Just keep in mind, the Repubs will not screw you over anymore than the Dems will.