BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher-13 Oct 1925

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: melodeonboy
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 12:27 PM

I would think twice about wishing happy birthday (and "many happy returns" is right out!) to anyone who's been pals with both Pinochet and (when it suited her, and rather more discreetly!) Saddam.

TTFN

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Nuclear Fish
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 08:56 AM

Lets kill the Thatcher beast, good boithday presink.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 07:04 AM

I dont know what anti irish has to do with this thread?
Is it anti Irish to blame the IRA for cocking up at Brighton?

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: David C. Carter
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 05:02 AM

I scrolled down so fast,to avoid the cut and paste,that I seem to have missed the bit about where she << walked upon the water>>.DRAT!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 04:38 AM

She made her disciples believe that greed and selfishness were virtues, in truth a vote for Thatcher was a vote for selfish greed.
A book just published ' Yob Nation ' by Francis Gilbert blames Thatcher
[ among others ] for todays yobbish behaviour problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Boston Boy
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 12:39 PM

When you look at who brought the thread back to life it says it all. Can we not get this anti Irish bore onto another site ???

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Peace
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 12:20 PM

I think it's very nice of someone to wish Eleanor Thatcher a happy birthday. She was in film and her talent was substantial. Why are people slagging her?

The Road to Ruin (1934) .... Dancer
Over the Counter (1932)
Wild People (1932) .... Singer

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 12:00 PM

I think it would be pretty safe to delete this thread.

If they want to wish her happy birthday - let the buggers send her a card. like everybody else.

Even the tories are coming round to realising that she was barking mad and did incalculable harm to the fabric of this country, and . and after a bout of relative sanity nobody wants all that back

all that unemployment
all that bloodshed in Ireland
all that pride in indifference to human suffering and sneering from the tory party conference platform
all that hijacking of health and education exchequers to further mad bastard right wing policies from the national curriculum to fundholding gp practices

the only industry she brought to this country was hard drugs and begging on the street

no one who really loved this country ever voted for her. no real patriot. only right wing assholes and they can't articulate anything so they cut and paste and generally shite up mudcat with verbose bloody nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 11:16 AM

Tory Tory Tory provides an interesting overview of the most ideologically driven British Prime Minister of the 20th Century.
Lest it be forgotten she bankrupted her own party intellectually & morally.
She was sacked by that party on the perfectly reasonable grounds that she had become an electoral liability.
She created the climate in which her party became unelectable & has failed to notice that the current Tory leader's so far succesful strategy of reclaiming that lost support consists for the most part of publicly refuting everything she ever stood for.
No miss.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 10:59 AM

Has anyone else been watching 'tory,tory,tory' on BBC4? This surely confirms Mrs T's standing as second only to Sir Winston Churchill as the greatest Englishman ever? Such vision, intellect and drive, fabulous!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 09:29 PM

Very please to hear that BPL - You'll enjoy sucking them.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 02:04 PM

What a coincidence. I just received a recipe for Hawick Balls.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 10:28 AM

Mooman,

Thanks for your post, in turn please accept my apologies.

Hawick I know well, but I do not live there.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 09:21 AM

Don't deny Ted his little pleasures. It's a harmless little obsession of his, and will reamin so, so long as he keeps taking the pills....

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 05:12 AM

Well done ted, you sad sad man.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 04:46 AM

100. I thank you! MY thread, my 100th, so there!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 04:45 AM

99

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 04:34 AM

P.S. Teribus,

...which is perhaps Hawick given your Mudcat name?

Respectfully,

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 04:14 AM

"EU institutions' salaries, buildings and all their perks" We don't need ANY of that lot!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 03:39 AM

Teribus,

No, I do not work for the EU or any of the other EU institutions and, for once, I actually agree with you on something about their junketing, scandalous pay and lack of transparency. Actually, my full Belgian taxes taxes (out of a very modest salary... and I pay the same as the locals, no special "ex-pat" status) go to pay for all the positive things I listed as well as for the EU institutions' salaries, buildings and all their perks. I work for a medical association and my job involves fighting to improve healthcare provision, effectiveness and safety for all EU citizens. I believe I try to practice what I preach.

As for the rest, we will have to agree to differ radically. I however prefer to argue with someone who has different views to me than someone who has no views at all. If we ever do meet I am prepared to personally argue my case in depth with you. It is a pity you can't do so here without being patronizing in your posts. It brought out the worst in me and for that I am sorry.

Respectfully,

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 01:27 PM

Hey Mooman,

Nothing at all to be ashamed about in working in Europe - but working in the political sphere in Europe for more than 14 years. Anything to do with that Franco-German Junketing Corps known as the EU? The most corrupt, inefficient, non-transparent organisation in existence.

Very impressive list of what you all have there in Belgium, Moo. It might of course be rather different if the Belgians had to foot the bill on their own, and that is a situation that is only going to get worse, as both the French and the Germans now fully realise (because neither can they). It has always amused me with regard to the EU when the pro-Europe lobby intimate that the UK could be expelled from the EU. They couldn't of course, no body of people go rushing into a good resturaunt for a five-course meal then eject one of those who has to pay the bill.

No arguements put forward by you at all apart from the impression all too prevalent on this forum of Left-wing Dogma Good - Right-wing Dogma Bad and you have the cheek to pull me up for 'pathetic insults'.

I do not think I have ever hear anything so pathetic and patronising as your, "I have probably forgotten more politics (especially European and international politics) than you will ever know."

You state correctly that I do not know you personally but then the converse is also true - like you, I go on what you submit to the various threads on this forum - so your point is?

By the bye, I do believe that I would rather live where I do than in Belgium.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:34 PM

Teribus,

Now you're showing your true colours! Reduced again to pathetic insults.

Many others here know me personally. You don't.

I lived though "both periods" in the UK just like you.

And I'm not embarassed about working in Europe at all. Far from it. And as for Belgium... can any poor ill soul in the UK see a medical specialist of their own choice within 48 hours? You can here. Are there free local community creches in the UK? Is there automatic "maternelle" schooling for 2 and a half to 5 year olds? Yes to both here. Can you go out in the city centre and enjoy a quiet drink and meal with your family at any time without fear of yobbery and drunken behaviour? You can here. Is there a proper integrated, efficient and affordable transport system there? No, I thought not. Do you systematically recycle your household refuse? Can anyone who passes their "bacc" go to university with fees equivalent to only about £200 year? No, I didn't think so either. Do you have shop assistants who routinely speak four languages? Have you had completely electronic banking and cabled neighbourhoods throughout the country for the last 15 years? Do you have affordable housing? I could go on...

Frankly I am singularly unimpressed with your tone and rhetoric as you have the reputation of being something of a "champion" of the right wing here. Your knowledge of European politics is, however, minimal.

As for refuting your arguments, I don't have the time to sit here for hours like you and rarelamb reproducing and pasting up tired second-hand political kant. However, I would more than happily meet you for a couple of beers at some future date and, with reasoned argument, debunk the patent dogma you present here.

Respectfully,

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:00 PM

I for one wish that there was more dogma on this thread. I have consistently been an unapologetic proponent of Libertarian values on this board.

If there was more dogma from the left, one would at least be able to understand the arguements. What I have seen has been attempts to call names and wish ill health. That is hardly conducive to a discussion.

Nor is posting that I am wrong but not explaining the whys or under what basis I am incorrect, helpful in this discussion. The opposition has not put forward a coherent arguement. That is the problem. I welcome others to put forward evidence as to why I am incorrect, or at least put forward an alternative explaination of Lady Thatcher's time in office.

The only arguement put forward that I can tell is that she is responsible for a 'me first' attitude in the UK.   It was correctly put forward that there has always been a 'me first' attitude. I challenge anyone to prove an act is altruistic.

I will end this post with a couple of quotes from a Britain from the 18th century.

"It is not the benevolence of the butcher the baker or the brewer that we derive our meals but rather of their self love"

"Every individual necessarily labours to render teh annual revenue of society as great as he can. He neither intends to promote the public interest nor knows how much he has. He is in this as in many othe rcases led by an invisible hand to promote an end that was not part of his intentions."

or something there abouts.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 11:59 AM

Ooops mooman,

I note that your post of 19 Oct 05 - 11:35 AM, provides no counter arguements to any fact, opinion or observation that I detailed in the post you were responding to - Not one.

So with all your vast experience you have the complete and utter gall to attempt to tell me how great things were in the UK pre-1979 and how that awful woman Thatcher came along and ruined it all - Utter crap Mooman and I for one refuse point blank to swallow it - why because I lived through both periods and kept my eyes and ears open.

If you have indeed, "...worked in the political sphere in Europe (sorry to mention that dirty word) for more than 14 years and was involved in local politics for many years in the UK before I came to live in Belgium." I wouldn't shout too loud about it.

As to your not being, "...a member of any political party nor do I desire to be." That's probably a damn good thing, if however you do decide to change your mind, it would be greatly appreciated if you applied all your vast political knowledge over there in Belgium.

Lastly if you do want to refer things that could be considered pathetic and patronising - I give you an example of your own:

"I have probably forgotten more politics (especially European and international politics) than you will ever know."

Oh! Wow!! Mooman - I am supposed to be what exactly, cowed into silence? Impressed beyond words? No don't think so - If any such as youself ever comes close to figuratively pissing on my back and then try telling me that it's raining, believe me you will get a reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 11:35 AM

Teribus,

I believe from your incredible post you are the one blinded and confused by dogma, not me. All that you have quoted is right-wing opinion, not fact.

By the way, I have worked in the political sphere in Europe (sorry to mention that dirty word) for more than 14 years and was involved in local politics for many years in the UK before I came to live in Belgium.

I am currently not a member of any political party nor do I desire to be.

I have probably forgotten more politics (especially European and international politics) than you will ever know.

And don't "Moo" and "Mooman" me throughout your posts. It is pathetic and patronizing and does you no credit whatsoever.

With respect,

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 11:03 AM

On the contrary Mooman - 19 Oct 05 - 03:30 AM:

I am certainly not the one walking around with my eyes closed - or blinkered for that matter.

If what rarelamb did provide was opinion - it seems to have come from rather a wide range of extremely well considered, knowledgable and none to partisan sources, who seem to have written those opinions based upon the facts before them.

But here are some facts Mooman - In 1979 the UK was in a mess (Crisis! What Crisis??) The Conservatives won by a landslide because of a common realisation that something had to be done. According to what you seem to suggest with your woolley talk about society and community, the impression that the country was being run like Trumpton or Camberwick Green is ludicrous. The nation was bankrupt and sinking fast even after having gone to the IMF for loans to keep us afloat - Unions ran the country - not the elected government. That Mooman was FACT.

Within 10 years the situation had been completely turned round the UK had the healthiest economy in Europe - That Mooman is another FACT.

Now let's take your advice and take a look at - "what we see around us now as a result of her legacy", lets see if they - "speak for themselves and continue to do so." It has been around 15 years since Margaret Thatcher left Downing Street, during those 15 years we've had a Conservative Government until 1997 and a Labour Government from 1997 to the present day. How many of her policies have been reversed? None - How come Moo? - Don't wrack your brain the question's rhetorical - because her policies worked and they continue to do so. Margaret Thatcher's counterparts in both France and Germany dearly wished that they could have done the same. If they had those countries would not be in the state that they are in now. They could not impliment similar reforms because of their weak political systems and their own lack of courage and determination to bite the bullet and do what was right for their respective nations as a whole. Maggie did not suffer from any such doubt, she had the mandate from the people and the courage and determination to see the job through - in short Moo she provided Leadership (something hated and despised by the left, I know, you guys all like to believe that things happen by collective happen-chance, they don't - two people in a rowing boat after the ship has gone down, one of them has to be the Captain or both perish - that's another FACT Mooman).

The "me first" attitude prevalent in current society has always existed to deny that fact denies common human nature, there has never been any great sense of 'noblesse oblige' among the 'common folk' of the British Isles - that was the burden of the aristocracy. As for the state of all these areas of UK infrastructure, I would have hated to have seen what state they would have been in if things had been left to drift without her. Where would the necessary investment have come from Moo? - handouts from the EU, or more loans from the IMF. Neither would have worked because the Unions would have ensured that that little lot was squandered propping up no-hope, lame-duck industries.

Sometimes I think people like you must walk round with their eyes, ears and minds firmly closed.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 03:30 AM

What rarelamb has regurgitated in his cut-and-pastes Teribus are merely hacked-up opinions, not facts.

The facts are what we see around us now as a result of her legacy, speak for themselves and continue to do so. You want refutation of rarelamb's nonsense. Would you like the condensed version (maybe about 100 pages giuven drastic editing) or the full account (probably a lifetime's work, given the negative and destructive impact she and her cohorts had on society).

I would not wish her personal ill but, nevertheless, her influence remains in the "me first" attitude prevalent in current society and the damage she wrought on almost every area of UK infrastructure.

Sometimes I think people like you must walk round with their eyes closed.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: yrlancslad
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 02:05 AM

Like you Rarelamb, I never had to live under her as I had escaped abroad before her reign.But as an ex-miner I hope she enjoys a long and painfull old age and that I'm there to piss on her grave when she goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 06:26 PM

Thanks rarelamb for taking the trouble to point the case so comprehensively - however due to the subject matter you cannot expect to receive any thanks for opening the eyes of the bulk of the membership. As you have yourself noted, not one single counter arguement, or refutation of fact, has been offered, by your detractors. Of course had CarolC, Bobert, Amos or Don Frith gone through the same exercise on their own pet subjects the bulk of the membership of this forum would be salivating in their praise for such diligence and attention to detail.

"....once great nation" !!!!! in the 1960's and 1970's Geoff the Duck - Who the hell are you trying to kid - The entire country was going to hell in a hand-cart. Had that state of affairs been allowed to continue who then would have have blamed for the misery and poverty to be inflicted on those you seem to care so much for, because, believe it, or not, their plight would have been much, much worse.

If any of the membership attempts to peddle the line that Margaret Thatcher invented/introduced the traits of pursuit of self-interest and greed to this nation, you will only be denying the history of the people of the British Isles from the year dot.

One last thing, would people quoting the "no such thing as society" bit please quote fully what Margaret Thatcher said and the context in which she said it - you won't because it will not advance the point you wish to make, or portray the lady in the light you wish to cast her.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 05:35 PM

I wish her as much ill as she inflicted upon the children, pensioners and innocent ordinary people of our once great nation.
I wish her life to be ruined like she ruined the lives of miners, nurses, dockers,and anybody who had the misfortune to not be a rich.
I would also vote for a painful lingering death in a public ward of an underfunded hospital, being fed with the crap which privatised caterers fob the sick off with. I woulf like to see her in a privatised Old-Folks home where profits to the owners take precedence over giving proper care to the inhabitants. I would like to see her suffering the flesh-eating consequences of private profit in hospital hygiene.
I personally hope she rots, not in hell, but here on earth.
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 01:32 PM

WAUGH!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 01:24 PM

Don't expect arguments on a thread about Mrs Thatcher, rarelamb. You don't get arguments from the bitter and twisted. Argument requires the use of reason, than which vicious hatred is so much simpler for the ignorant.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 09:36 AM

The above posts supporting this woman says a lot about them, then again look at the names. No surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 09:16 AM

More than a dozen responses and not a single arguement. Plenty of slander and death wishes, but remarkably few substantive points.

Is this because her detractors have little to base their position?

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 09:06 AM

Thatcher had a paranoid hatred of :- trade unions, coal miners and working class people in general.

This rarelamb obviously doesn't know about the whole communities destroyed by her bitterness towards the miners, or her spite in inflicting the poll tax on the Scots for not returning any tory MPs.

She employed an American to similarly destroy the British steel industry.

No doubt this crazy old harridan is still full of bile and bitterness
towards the tories who got rid of her.

I hope she dies a long lingering painful death.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Ex coal miner
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 08:57 AM

Rarelamb is a total tory wanker, and he will come to know if he visits here often enough, nobody reads posts longer than half a page, especially cut and paste from tory central office.

I can't believe this flamenco ted is real, if he is he must be the only tory from 'ull

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Redhorse at work
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 08:24 AM

rarelamb as an American did not have to live under MT. So lacking in the experience he falls for the BS.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Mr Fox
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 06:38 AM

And I hope that you die
And that your death comes soon
And I'll follow your coffin
On a pale afternoon
And I'll watch as you're lowered
Into your last bed
Then I'll p*** on your grave when I'm sure that you're dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 06:29 AM

I second John Rouse's observation entirely. And that legacy remains today.

Didn't we get Mad Cow disease from them being fed rare lamb?

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 04:22 AM

And the alternative was? Len Murray as PM? Arthur Scargill as Foreign Secretary? I remember the 1970's very well. In the building industry the demarcation caused by the unions meant that a joiners labourer would not pick up a brick because that was the job of the bricklayers labourer! It was that ridiculous!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 07:15 PM

I would also point out that even if (which is not admitted) any of what rarelamb says is properly founded, he makes the same fundamental mistake as one of the ones that Thatcher made and even later admitted - the evaluation of wellbeing only in cash terms, and the failure to value for example proper health care provision but also many other things - of which justice might be but one other thing.

I would also point out that the economic values described above do not include the values - not even the money values - of the provisions (excluding cash) properly provided by the welfare state.

Finally, for this post, the assertion that Thatcherism made even the poorest in society richer in bald economic terms is still untenable, for the statistics above rely on measuring the incomes of cohorts of finite size, and within the poorest cohort there are many who failed to do as well as the average of the cohort. By choosing smaller cohorts, the contrary can obviously be shown.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 07:01 PM

She is now living the hell herself that she brought to so many others.A twisted bitter old woman living alone and calling in favours to get her daft son out of trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: danensis
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 04:05 PM

For someone who thought there was no such thing as society she spent a lot of time and energy trying to wreck ours. Her legacy is the "me first" philosophy of the eighties and nineties.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 03:25 PM

The word is often applied to those who extol the virtues(?)of not very nice people.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 03:20 PM

I have to admit, I had to look up 'tosser'.

http://cgi.peak.org/~jeremy/retort.cgi?British=tosser

Apparently it is not a very nice word. But the site is very helpful for english-american translations.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Patrick Magee
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 02:49 PM

If only we had met in 1984. Best wishes Margaret, Patrick.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 02:41 PM

Ok this is my cups de gracias or peace de raisins. Keep in mind that these are quotes from Paul Krugman, aka liberal lacky.

http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/want_growth_speak_english.htm

" A slight variant is the Margaret Thatcher theory. In the 1980s there was an ideological groundswell in the English-speaking world in favor of markets and against government intervention; perhaps the rest of the advanced world missed the tide because it couldn't read Milton Friedman in the original."

" On the whole, I'd probably place most of the emphasis on Greenspan and Thatcher."

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 02:10 PM

May she not see the month out.Murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 01:37 PM

http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/000126.html

"In his Whitehall office, a cabinet minister was bemoaning the fact that the government does not get enough credit for cutting unemployment — which last week dropped to 860,000, its lowest for nearly 30 years.

There have been plenty of articles, it was pointed out to him, that contrast Britain's low unemployment with the high jobless totals in Europe."

"Britain's unemployment rate, on a comparable basis, is 4.8%, against 9.4% in France and 9.8% in Germany. Unemployment stands at under half the EU average.

Per capita gross domestic product in Britain, according to a new report from Capital Economics, is higher at $30,200 (£16,440), than Germany's $29,200 or France's $28,500.

The economic momentum is with us. Britain has been growing continuously for 12 years, during which time other EU countries have suffered at least one recession and in some cases two. The sick man of Europe has made a remarkable recovery.

"The divergence in economic performance between the main continental economies and us began about 10 years ago and will continue for the foreseeable future unless we get dragged down by the constitution and the charter of fundamental human rights," said Ian Milne, a businessman and author for the think tank Civitas. "

"The CBI, once regarded as unquestioningly pro-EU, is increasingly critical. "The model that took the EU through the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s is now failing the people of Europe," said Digby Jones, its director-general.

"It is not British arrogance or Little Englander to say this. Britain has taken some very hard decisions over the past 25 years, both the Tories and Labour, and these policies have delivered the most successful economy in Europe.

"I don't blame anybody who says, 'We're not going to give up on this'. So much of what I see coming out of Brussels wants to take us back to 1970." "

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 01:30 PM

Stole from the poor.

Gave to the rich.

Stupid bitch.