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BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher-13 Oct 1925

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Paco Rabanne 13 Oct 05 - 08:28 AM
mooman 13 Oct 05 - 09:28 AM
GUEST 13 Oct 05 - 09:47 AM
Dave Hanson 13 Oct 05 - 09:52 AM
Peace 13 Oct 05 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 13 Oct 05 - 10:01 AM
Seiri Omaar 13 Oct 05 - 10:01 AM
Peace 13 Oct 05 - 10:02 AM
Stu 13 Oct 05 - 10:26 AM
Arnie 13 Oct 05 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,Common Sense 13 Oct 05 - 11:03 AM
ossonflags 13 Oct 05 - 11:05 AM
Paco Rabanne 13 Oct 05 - 12:02 PM
GUEST 13 Oct 05 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,DB 13 Oct 05 - 01:44 PM
GUEST,Boab 14 Oct 05 - 04:03 AM
Dave Hanson 14 Oct 05 - 05:15 AM
Sttaw Legend 14 Oct 05 - 05:15 AM
GUEST,Piers 14 Oct 05 - 05:35 AM
Paco Rabanne 14 Oct 05 - 05:41 AM
Gedpipes 14 Oct 05 - 05:43 AM
Tam the man 14 Oct 05 - 07:25 AM
Paco Rabanne 14 Oct 05 - 09:25 AM
Gedpipes 14 Oct 05 - 09:42 AM
Terry K 14 Oct 05 - 12:28 PM
TheBigPinkLad 14 Oct 05 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,Boab 14 Oct 05 - 03:25 PM
GUEST,rarelamb 14 Oct 05 - 03:50 PM
TheBigPinkLad 14 Oct 05 - 05:05 PM
Terry K 14 Oct 05 - 06:35 PM
Peace 14 Oct 05 - 06:38 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Oct 05 - 07:03 PM
GUEST 14 Oct 05 - 09:42 PM
GUEST,Mr. Fancy Pants 15 Oct 05 - 01:12 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Oct 05 - 01:32 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Oct 05 - 04:04 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Oct 05 - 04:16 AM
GUEST,unemployed old miner 15 Oct 05 - 09:57 AM
Epona 15 Oct 05 - 10:10 AM
Tam the man 15 Oct 05 - 10:19 AM
Folkiedave 15 Oct 05 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 09:09 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 09:24 AM
Paco Rabanne 17 Oct 05 - 09:34 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 10:18 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 10:26 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 10:50 AM
mooman 17 Oct 05 - 10:54 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 11:02 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 11:13 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 11:26 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 11:43 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 11:52 AM
mooman 17 Oct 05 - 11:55 AM
Tam the man 17 Oct 05 - 11:55 AM
Arnie 17 Oct 05 - 11:56 AM
Paco Rabanne 17 Oct 05 - 12:06 PM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 12:11 PM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 12:23 PM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 12:34 PM
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Richard Bridge 17 Oct 05 - 01:30 PM
GUEST 17 Oct 05 - 01:37 PM
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GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 02:41 PM
GUEST,Patrick Magee 17 Oct 05 - 02:49 PM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 03:20 PM
Dave Sutherland 17 Oct 05 - 03:25 PM
danensis 17 Oct 05 - 04:05 PM
GUEST 17 Oct 05 - 07:01 PM
Richard Bridge 17 Oct 05 - 07:15 PM
Paco Rabanne 18 Oct 05 - 04:22 AM
mooman 18 Oct 05 - 06:29 AM
Mr Fox 18 Oct 05 - 06:38 AM
GUEST,Redhorse at work 18 Oct 05 - 08:24 AM
GUEST,Ex coal miner 18 Oct 05 - 08:57 AM
Dave Hanson 18 Oct 05 - 09:06 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 18 Oct 05 - 09:16 AM
Divis Sweeney 18 Oct 05 - 09:36 AM
GUEST 18 Oct 05 - 01:24 PM
Little Hawk 18 Oct 05 - 01:32 PM
Geoff the Duck 18 Oct 05 - 05:35 PM
Teribus 18 Oct 05 - 06:26 PM
yrlancslad 19 Oct 05 - 02:05 AM
mooman 19 Oct 05 - 03:30 AM
Teribus 19 Oct 05 - 11:03 AM
mooman 19 Oct 05 - 11:35 AM
Teribus 19 Oct 05 - 11:59 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 19 Oct 05 - 12:00 PM
mooman 19 Oct 05 - 12:34 PM
Teribus 19 Oct 05 - 01:27 PM
mooman 20 Oct 05 - 03:39 AM
Paco Rabanne 20 Oct 05 - 04:14 AM
mooman 20 Oct 05 - 04:34 AM
Paco Rabanne 20 Oct 05 - 04:45 AM
Paco Rabanne 20 Oct 05 - 04:46 AM
Dave Hanson 20 Oct 05 - 05:12 AM
Bunnahabhain 20 Oct 05 - 09:21 AM
Teribus 20 Oct 05 - 10:28 AM
TheBigPinkLad 20 Oct 05 - 02:04 PM
Teribus 20 Oct 05 - 09:29 PM
Paco Rabanne 23 Mar 06 - 10:59 AM
Purple Foxx 23 Mar 06 - 11:16 AM
Big Al Whittle 23 Mar 06 - 12:00 PM
Peace 23 Mar 06 - 12:20 PM
GUEST,Boston Boy 23 Mar 06 - 12:39 PM
Dave Hanson 24 Mar 06 - 04:38 AM
David C. Carter 24 Mar 06 - 05:02 AM
GUEST 24 Mar 06 - 07:04 AM
GUEST,Nuclear Fish 24 Mar 06 - 08:56 AM
melodeonboy 24 Mar 06 - 12:27 PM
GUEST 25 Mar 06 - 05:27 AM
Hillheader 25 Mar 06 - 06:25 AM
ifor 25 Mar 06 - 07:05 AM
Shiplap Structure3 27 Mar 06 - 03:40 AM
Paco Rabanne 27 Mar 06 - 07:40 AM
Dave Hanson 27 Mar 06 - 08:29 AM
GUEST,Boston Boy 27 Mar 06 - 04:49 PM
Bert 27 Mar 06 - 05:16 PM
Paco Rabanne 28 Mar 06 - 06:17 AM
Bert 28 Mar 06 - 12:33 PM
GUEST,Boston Boy 28 Mar 06 - 02:22 PM
Gedpipes 29 Mar 06 - 02:55 AM
Paco Rabanne 05 Apr 06 - 06:25 AM
Dave Hanson 05 Apr 06 - 09:53 AM
Paco Rabanne 05 Apr 06 - 10:00 AM
Dave Hanson 06 Apr 06 - 04:28 AM
Cllr 06 Apr 06 - 06:10 AM
Paco Rabanne 06 Apr 06 - 08:56 AM
Dave Hanson 06 Apr 06 - 09:30 AM
GUEST,ES&L 06 Apr 06 - 10:45 AM
Paco Rabanne 06 Apr 06 - 11:13 AM
Divis Sweeney 06 Apr 06 - 02:54 PM
Paco Rabanne 07 Apr 06 - 02:48 AM
Purple Foxx 07 Apr 06 - 03:00 AM
Divis Sweeney 07 Apr 06 - 12:29 PM
GUEST 08 Apr 06 - 10:59 AM
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GUEST,Gillian Brookebrough 08 Apr 06 - 03:52 PM
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Divis Sweeney 09 Apr 06 - 04:55 AM
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GUEST 09 Apr 06 - 09:20 AM
Cllr 09 Apr 06 - 11:09 AM
GUEST 09 Apr 06 - 01:50 PM
Dave Hanson 10 Apr 06 - 04:05 AM
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Subject: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 08:28 AM

Happy 80th to the greatest living Englishman.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:28 AM

I do not wish her ill but please excuse me if I refrain from celebrating this particular anniversary.

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:47 AM

I just can't bring myself to do it. Ha-ha-hap....no it won't come out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:52 AM

Many happy returns Maggie, I hope you live to a decrepit and painful age.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Peace
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:56 AM

Proof that Neocons come in both sexes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:01 AM

Absolutely disgraceful behavior.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Seiri Omaar
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:01 AM

How you knew it was her birthday I don't want to know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Peace
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:02 AM

"Absolutely disgraceful behavior."

I agree her behaviour was disgraceful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Stu
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:26 AM

Happy Birthday to you
You rotten old moo
You closed all our dockyards
and all our mines too


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Arnie
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:31 AM

When I was a student, I recall going on a protest march against Maggie for stopping free school milk. 'Maggie Thatcher, milk snatcher' was the chant - and that was before she became PM!! In a lot of deprived areas, school milk was the only decent sustenance that most of the kids saw, but this just didn't wash with Maggie so she cancelled it. No matter that under her 'reign' city financiers were awarding themselves million pound bonuses - as long as the working classes were kept in their place then all was well with the world. I see that she is still sufficiently vindictive to have failed to invite Michael Heseltine (her ex-defence minister) to the birthday bash....he must have really pissed her off!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Common Sense
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 11:03 AM

Hated her at the time. Appreciate her now. What a marvellous woman.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: ossonflags
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 11:05 AM

And you could leave your front door open them days and a copper could give you a clip round the ear if you did owt wrong............... just ask a few miners.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 12:02 PM

So you didn't get an invite either then Arnie? I did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 12:31 PM

Were you washing your hare?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 01:44 PM

So, the old bat's edged a bit closer to the fiery pit where she'll be tortured by the souls of redundant miners forever!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 04:03 AM

She's had far too many birthdays.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:15 AM

Guest common sense my arse.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:15 AM

Margaret Thatcher dies and strolls up the pearly staircase to the pearly gates, where she is confronted by St. Peter, brandishing a clipboard. "Name," says St. Peter. "Margaret Thatcher," she replies.

St. Peter checks through all the lists on his clipboard but cannot find the name of the former British leader. "I am sorry," he says, "you cannot come in. Your place is downstairs, in Hell.
Thatcher turns and walks down the stairs.

A short time later the phone rings. St. Peter answers, and a voice says, "Hello Peter, it is the Devil speaking. You will have to take that bloody woman after all - she has only been here for ten minutes and she has closed half the furnaces to reduce capacity."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Piers
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:35 AM

You can personally direct your birthday greetings to her here at www.happybirthdaymargaretthatcher.ca

An extraordinary woman and leader, she was three times Prime Minister of England. Ah, bless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:41 AM

Thanks Piers. I have sent her a message thanking her for last nights star studded party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Gedpipes
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:43 AM

El Tedderino
It looks like you are not taking many mudcatters to this particular party with you me old son.
Grow a beard, put down that flamenco guitar, put a capp on your mandola and come and join us. The water's lovely... sort of
Blues skies
Ged


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Tam the man
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 07:25 AM

She's 80 aye in Human years but what is her true age, Hitler in drag.

At lest he had the cortisty to kill himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 09:25 AM

Ged,
    Wash your mouth out with soap! Only didicoys, ruffians and salty sea-dogs sport beards nowadays.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Gedpipes
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 09:42 AM

A woman who did so much for the country though don't you think Eric

'The pursuit of equality is a mirage. Opportunity means nothing unless it inlcudes the right to be unequal' MT 16 sept 79

Ged


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Terry K
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 12:28 PM

Lest non-Brits get the wrong impression - this forum is probably about 99 to 1 against Thatcher. In the country at large it's probably more like 70 to 30 in favour of her.

No, I have no basis for my instant statistic, but I'll bet it's close.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 02:25 PM

I'll take a slice of that bet, Terry K. Unless you accidentally omitted the word 'death' from the end of the second sentence ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 03:25 PM

Ah, yes--"three times prime monster of England". One of the few times when such a smug little-englander statement gives no offence to Scots, Welsh or Irish people. If 70% of English people think of her as a decent woman--never mind a decent prime minister---then it says little for the character of the English people. Having said that, I know the English people better than that. Most of them know just what Thatcher was. She even drove the TORIES into chucking her out! She came very,very close to breaking up the UK. And perhaps that achievement would have been one of the better results of her despotic tenure. She destroyed the reputation of a union leader who suggested she was about to "close twenty collieries". She branded him a liar. She then proceeded to close practically ALL of the coal industry. She blatantly--and brutally-- used Scotland as a testing ground for her abominable "poll tax", almost waking the Scots finally to the fact that they were---and are---the dumping ground for every variety of crap that the British government or MOD felt should be safely out of London and the home counties. Think Dounreay, think anthrax on the Hebrides, think uranium tipped ammunition fired into the Solway, think commando training grounds, think low-flight "training". Oh, yes, Thatcher was much-loved---in many boardrooms, in the good ole US OF A, and extolled to the high heavens in the Telegraph, the Times and every editorial in the Murdoch muck-heap for her heroic stand on behalf of nuke weapons [WMDs??], which she even had the gall to fit into a special sermon in the church of England! Her pompous appearance on the dais to lord it over the victory march past after the Falklands scrap reminded me vividly of the posturings of Mussolini. I have been as guilty as any in remarking what a wonderful successor Tony is. Well,I'll admit there are many similarities; but I think we'd have to cross the Atlantic to the heroic figures who fought and won over the post man and some odd home-guard types in Grenada, or who listened to god and bravely assaulted the WMD-wielding Iraqis.
I reckon "I detest the woman" would have been enough. I had a little time on my hands-----


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 03:50 PM

I dream of the day when all of politicians around the world were like the Iron Lady.

Like Atlas, she had a backbone strong enough to carry the world. In the tradition of former great PMs she promoted UK strength and faith in the power of the individual. Like Churchill, she firmed the resolve of somewhat, dare I say 'wimpy' American presidents.

She is the stuff of legends and no Brit should ever be apologetic of her tenure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:05 PM

rare indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Terry K
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 06:35 PM

Now now, GUEST rarelamb, never let a bit of common sense and reality get in the way of decent left wing rhetoric. Surely the magnitude of Thatcher's achievements pale into insignificance next to the real truths of Blair, Brown, Prescott, Straw ........


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 06:38 PM

"She is the stuff of legends and no Brit should ever be apologetic of her tenure."

Her politics, yes. But not her tenure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 07:03 PM

The blame for Thatcherism lies not so much with the woman herself, but with the people who voted for her.

But remember, most people always voted against her. That's the system we've got, then and now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 09:42 PM

Damn, I'll have to piss in the lavatory again, but one day.......


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Mr. Fancy Pants
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:12 AM

Happy Birthday Maggie. You were always a the pinnacle standard for good sensible fashion. The world surely needs someone like to represent all that is good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:32 AM

she made a very good job of protecting my right to be unequal. I didn't realise that was what she was up to at the time. perhaps we could award her the iron cross with oak leaves in recognition of the zeal with which she achieved this strange ambition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:04 AM

Not merely detestable, but also evil - without even the excuse of stupidity like Ronnie Ray-gun and Dubya.

May she have a slow and painful death, and be a long time in hell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:16 AM

Richard ...! really!
if an afterlife existed, I'd be worried that you actually meant that.I have given a great deal of thought to the sfterlife. I explain it all in the title track to my album St Peter and John Dillinger, which I will try to put on the website later this weekend.

theres quite enough nastiness in this world without continuing it to the next.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,unemployed old miner
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 09:57 AM

Guest rarelamb you fucking tosser, I'll bet you don't ilve in a coal mining area, you sound like a yuppie who got rich by embracing the Thatcher policies that being greedy and selfish is good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Epona
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 10:10 AM

One year closer to facing what she's done...

E


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Tam the man
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 10:19 AM

Magraret Thatcher's butler told her once that when she died, it would be on a holiday, when she asked which one, he said they don't care it'll be a holiday when you die


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Folkiedave
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 12:37 PM

The Tories chucked her out when they realised she was a barmpot. It just took them longer than the rest of us. And she did like her whiskey.

Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 09:09 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=104083

"The choice before the people was to take further strides in the direction of the corporatist all-powerful State or to restore the balance in favour of the individual. The Labour Party stood for the former. We offered the latter. The difference is clear-cut, and we steadily put it across during the campaign. It was indeed a watershed election. The result was decisive, with a difference of about 2 million votes between the two major parties, which was the largest difference since 1935."

"How is society to be improved? By millions of people resolving that they will give their own children a better life than they had themselves. That is the true driving force of society—the desire of the individual to do better for himself and his family. For too long individuals have been unable to benefit their families sufficiently from the fruits of their efforts. That truth pervades all too many areas of our national life. It affects management's willingness to take on responsibility. It reduces the readiness of business men to bear extra risk. Just as serious are the consequences for those at the bottom of the income scale, where an extra pound earned can be lost in tax and by the withdrawal of means-tested benefits."

"I turn to the second theme—that of restoring choice to the individual. That choice was progressively diminished during the lifetime of the last Government. Many, many people wish to see choice return, whether it is choice over how they spend their own money or more choice in housing and education, and some choice in health. During the election campaign many people said that at least the Conservative Party gave people choice and that this was quite different from the other party."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 09:24 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=104431

"Those in the public sector have a duty to those in the private sector not to take out so much in pay that they cause others unemployment. That is why we point out that every time high wage settlements in nationalised monopolies lead to higher charges for telephones, electricity, coal and water, they can drive companies out of business and cost other people their jobs.

If spending money like water was the answer to our country's problems, we would have no problems now. If ever a nation has spent, spent, spent and spent again, ours has. Today that dream is over. All of that money has got us nowhere but it still has to come from somewhere. Those who urge us to relax the squeeze, to spend yet more money indiscriminately in the belief that it will help the unemployed and the small businessman are not being kind or compassionate or caring.[fo 10]

They are not the friends of the unemployed or the small business. They are asking us to do again the very thing that caused the problems in the first place. We have made this point repeatedly. "

"But it is not the State that creates a healthy society. When the State grows too powerful people feel that they count for less and less. The State drains society, not only of its wealth but of initiative, of energy, the will to improve and innovate as well as to preserve what is best. Our aim is to let people feel that they count for more and more. If we cannot trust the deepest instincts of our people we should not be in politics at all. Some aspects of our present society really do offend those instincts."

"Not for us the disastrous fantasies of unilateral disarmament, of withdrawal from NATO, of abandoning Northern Ireland.

The irresponsibility of the Left on defence increases as the dangers which we face loom larger. We for our part, under Francis Pym 's brilliant leadership, have chosen a defence policy which potential foes will respect.

We are acquiring, with the co-operation of the United States Government, the Trident missile system. This will ensure the credibility of our strategic deterrent until the end of the century and beyond, and it was very important for the reputation of Britain abroad that we should keep our independent nuclear deterrent as well as for our citizens here.

We have agreed to the stationing of Cruise missiles in this country. The unilateralists object, but the recent willingness of the Soviet Government to open a new round of arms control negotiations shows the wisdom of our firmness.

We intend to maintain and, where possible, to improve our conventional forces so as to pull our weight in the Alliance. We have no wish to seek a free ride at the expense of our Allies. We will play our full part. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 09:34 AM

Excellent examples of some fine speeches there rarelamb!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 09:58 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=104579

" I can promise you two things. The first is the friendship of the[fo 1] British people; the second is that the years of socialist bumbling are at an end.

I am proud to lead a Conservative administration in Britain. For me, and I know for you, too, conservatism does not mean maintenance of the status quo. It means maintenance of the old values, the only background against which one could make the changes and adaptations which have to be made to keep abreast of the technological change that we need to embrace for a prosperous future.

Conservatism means harnessing, but still more, the liberation of the fundamental strengths and resources which make a country great, which make its people prosperous and self-reliant.[fo 2]

As a Conservative I want determined and decisive government. But that's something very different from an all-powerful government. You and I, Mr. President, believe in strong governments in areas where only governments can do the job, areas where governments can and must be strong, strong in the defense of the nation, strong in protecting law and order, strong in promoting a sound currency. If we do these things very well we shall indeed be leaders of strong government doing the things that only government can do.

But for too long and in too many places we've seen government assume the role of universal provider and universal arbiter. In many areas of our daily life there are hard but essential choices to be made. But in a free society those choices ought not to be made by government but by free men and women and managers and workforce alike whose lives and livelihood are directly affected.

Mr. President, wall-to-wall government is no substitute for that freedom of choice. Wall-to-wall government is economically inefficient and morally demeaning to the individual. Just take a look at those countries where the art has been brought to its cold, callous perfection to see where that leads. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:18 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=105314

"Since I came to Perth four years ago this week, on the morrow of our first great victory together, much has been accomplished. But much remains to be done.
The Task We Faced

The problems that confronted us when we came to office were daunting.

Labour had borrowed and left Britain bowed down by debt.

We were shocked by the winter of discontent. Shop stewards usurped the role of management and sometimes seemed more powerful than the Government itself. Britain's defences were undermined and our police demoralised. Inflation was taking off again. In short, we were a nation which had all too plainly lost its way, and almost abandoned hope of finding it again.

And we found a world poised on the brink of the worst recession since the 1930s.

It was, without a doubt, the bleakest prospect facing any newly elected government in Britain since the War. We could have bought a little time with short-term soft options. But too many previous Governments had done that—you elected us to tackle the real problem. And we've had the courage to do it.

And so we set in hand a programme to cure the nation's sickness and restore its health and reputation.[fo 1]

We had to break the habit of inflation once and for all, before the habit became an addiction.

We had to set about repaying the debts Labour left behind.

We had to restore worthwhile rewards for leadership and enterprise and give them room to breathe again and put out shoots of healthy long-term growth.

We had to restore to management responsibility to manage, and to employees their right to be consulted by the union that claimed to represent them.

We had to uproot the thickets of bureaucracy and controls in Whitehall and the town halls.

We had to rebuild the nation's ability to defend itself in an increasingly dangerous world.

We had to increase the numbers and the authority of the police and let them know that they had a Government which would back them to the hilt in enforcing the law.

We had to give council tenants the opportunity to buy their own homes.

We had to get a fairer balance of benefits and payments in the European Community.

We had to prove to friend and foe that those who looked to us for their defence would find once again that our word is our bond.

These things we have done. What we could not do—for it is not in the power of any Government—was to shift overnight the ingrained habits of half a lifetime.

Had both sides of industry realised that in future they had to take responsibility for their own actions, and that they would not automatically be bailed out regardless of their performance, hundreds of thousands of worthwhile and productive jobs would have survived the recession.[fo 2]

But the convictions that a pay rise every year was each man's birthright, and that jobs had somehow nothing to do with satisfying the customer, died hard. When proof arrived that times had changed, it was often too late.
Labour's Scare Stories

And there is something else that we have done.

We have exploded those scare stories with which our opponents tried so hard to cling to power in the 1979 election.

Let me remind you of a few of them.

They said we would cut pensions. Instead, we've raised them by two-thirds—well ahead of prices.

They said we'd dismantle the National Health Service. Instead, we have nearly doubled spending on the Health Service here in Scotland—and today there are many more doctors, dentists, and nurses—almost 6,000 of them—in your Scottish hospitals and health centres, than when we took office.

They said we'd cripple education. Instead expenditure per child is at an all-time record, and so is the proportion of teachers to pupils; and a higher proportion of our young men and women are going on to full-time further education than ever before.

They said we'd be the dear-food party. Just let's look at the record. When they were in power, food prices more than doubled. What you got for £10 at the beginning cost you £22 at the end. Under this Government, what you could buy for £10 when we took office would cost you £1350 today. Not good enough, but getting better. And in the last year food prices have risen by less than a penny in the £.

And may I remind you that inflation—now at 46%; and going down is at its lowest level for 15 years? That is an achievement of which we can be justly proud, and for which we have every reason to be grateful to Geoffrey Howe.[fo 3]

They said we would starve the Scottish Development Agency of funds and let it die. Instead we have nearly doubled the cash it has had to spend productively in Scotland.

I remind you of these scares because in the next three weeks there will be plenty more.
What They Stand For

There will be plenty more because if there's one thing our opponents don't want to talk about, it is their own policies. So you must see to it that every home in Scotland understands precisely what they stand for:

First, this Labour Party wants us to abandon our own independent nuclear deterrent; a deterrent which has helped to keep the peace for nearly 40 years; a deterrent which has been endorsed by every Labour Leader— Attlee , Gaitskell , Wilson and Callaghan —but not this one.

And they want us to do it without a corresponding reduction from the Soviet Union. As Mr. Andropov put it when asked whether he would agree to one-sided disarmament, "We are not a naive people".

And as if that was not enough, they want to serve notice to quit on every American nuclear base in Britain, many of which have been here for 30 years and which are part of NATO defence. Not exactly the action of a reliable ally. Nor does it recognise the tremendous contribution made by the United States to the defence of free Europe.

This Labour Party would take Britain out of the Common Market—putting at risk 50,000 Scottish jobs and millions of £s of new investment.

This Labour Party has adopted a deliberate policy of inflation in spite of everything we've suffered from rising prices in the last ten years.

This Labour Party would take away the council tenant's right to buy his own home which has transformed the lives of half a million families.

This Labour Party would put Britain back under the dominance of the Trade Unions. They would repeal our legislation which has helped to restore the balance between the unions and the community and given individual rights to union members.[fo 4]

This Labour Party would take over control of how your pension fund invests the money you have entrusted to it for your retirement.

Without a shadow of a doubt, this Labour Party has the most extreme and most damaging programme ever placed before the British electorate. No wonder they usually try to talk of anything but that.
The Other Danger: Liberal S D P

But voting Labour is not the only way of putting Labour in.

When Labour came to power in 1974, they did so on their smallest post-War vote to date. And who put them in? The Liberals and the Nationalists in Scotland. And do you remember what happened in 1976 when the Labour Government was tottering? Who came to the rescue? It was those self-same Liberals with the notorious Lib-Lab Pact who propped up the most illiberal Government of modern times.

Today the Liberals have new allies: the S D P: the very men (and women) who, when members of the Labour Government, destroyed our direct grant and grammar schools, who undermined respect for the family in the name of a misleading permissiveness, and who nationalised still more of our industries. "

"Mr President, when we met in Perth last year it was in the shadow of great events then taking place on the other side of the world. Not for the first time in our history, the courage, skill and sheer professionalism of the armed forces of the Crown, went on to earn for them the admiration of the world. And if today we walk a little taller—and I believe we do—then it is those brave young men who deserve the praise. But they have achieved something even more important: their deeds have made the world a safer place for all of us.

That truth is worthy of a moment's reflection. In recent months we have heard a lot about the protest lines at Holy Loch and Greenham Common—and elsewhere in Western Europe. Now I do not doubt the sincerity and indeed the idealism of many of these people. The real aims of some of them is another matter. But if a hostile Government was tempted to pursue its demands by armed aggression, which example would be more likely to make it pause: the renunciation of the means of national self-defence which the banners call for? Or the swift and sure response of our young men in the South Atlantic just a year ago?

As Lord Home said only a few weeks ago: "I can find nothing in Christian teaching that forbids me to defend myself when faced with an evil aggressor who aims to destroy my religion and all the values which I treasure". "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:26 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=105450

"That is the great role of the Western democracies in this age. It is our duty—to understand the threat we face—to be strong enough to deter any aggressor—to engage in and win the battle of ideas and, as Churchill always sought to do, to bind ever more closely those nations who cherish the dignity of man and the power of the human spirit.[fo 1]
The threat

First, the threat. We have to deal with: the Soviet Union. But we must deal with it not as we would like it to be, but as it is. We live on the same planet and we have to go on sharing it. We stand ready therefore—if and when the circumstances are right—to talk to the Soviet leadership.

But we must not fall into the trap of projecting our own morality onto the Soviet leaders. They do not share our aspirations: they are not constrained by our ethics, they have always considered themselves exempt from the rules that bind other states. They claim to speak in the name of humanity—but they oppress the individual. They pose as the champion of free nations—but in their own empire they practise total control. They invoke the word democracy—but they practise single-party rule by a self-appointed oligarchy. They pretend to support the freedom of the ballot-box- but they are protected by a system of one man, one vote—and one candidate.

Their power is sustained by myth. Presenting themselves to the world as the fount of progress and revolution, they preside over a modern version of the early tyrannies of history. A structure so rigid that it totally precludes the normal processes of questioning, discussion and change.

They have little contact with their own people, still less with the free world. "


"We have watched the depredations of the Soviet Union in the 66 years since its creation. While the Soviet Union has imposed its rule on its neighbours and drawn an iron curtain between East and West, we in Great Britain have given freedom and independence to more than 40 countries whose populations now number more than one thousand million—a quarter of the world's total.

The readiness of Russia to use force outside its borders is manifest. It is active in every continent, reaching deep into the domestic affairs of independent countries—openly or covertly. By using the tools of subversion. "

"We are confronted by a power of great military strength, which has consistently used force against its neighbours, which wields the threat of force as a weapon of policy, and which is bent on subverting and destroying the confidence and stability of the Western world. That is the threat we face, what is our response"

"No amount of propaganda, of spurious half-truths can disguise the determination of the Soviet Union to maintain or gain numerical advantage in weaponry, men and materials.

No amount of facile argument can conceal the fact that Soviet flexibility to date has been designed to beguile public opinion, not to make progress by genuine negotiation at Geneva.

Some may recoil at the thought of negotiating with men whose theories and actions have been responsible for so much suffering."

"Is there conscience in the Kremlin? do they ever ask themselves what is the purpose of life? What is it all for? Does the way they handled the Korean airliner atrocity suggest that they ever considered such questions?

No. Their creed is barren of conscience, immune to the promptings of good and evil. To them it is the system that counts, and all men must conform.[fo 4]

Nevertheless in Poland they have seen that Communism, even when disguised as military government, cannot suppress the soul of the people. Do they ever wonder, nay even fear, whether the day will not dawn when their own people will give voice to their feelings and frustrations?

Freedom of conscience is a natural right which laws did not give and which law can never take away.

It is the countries of the democratic West which recognise the limits of the power of the state, and which enshrine the conscience of man, in the very structure of their institutions. It is this which is the burden of our responsibility to mankind. Surely this was what Churchill meant when he said in a war-time broadcast to this country: "United we can save and guide the world. Divided the dark ages return".

Those words are as true today as they were in June 1941.

Our ideals and our values are our living strength. Soviet ideology teaches that we in the West are like ripe apples, ready to fall into their laps: that all they have to do is shake the tree. "

"our resolve to defend our way of life, to deter all threats and to ensure in the end that triumph of freedom which America and Britain work for, long for and believe will one day come.

Mr. Chairman, I began with Winston Churchill, and I will end with him. Who better? Churchill wrote; "where we are able to stand together and work together for righteous causes, we shall always be thankful, and the world will always be free.""


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:31 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=105503

"But I think we are already seeing quite a lot, but I am not quite sure where you want me to start. We did come into power with the determination to reduce the role of the state. I believe passionately in certain roles for Government, and the rest for the people. And let me perhaps sum up and put it best in this way. I believe you need very strong Government to be strong in those things which only Governments can do. And strong enough after that to leave the rest to the people because that is the essence of a free society. The freedom of the people within a just rule of law and within a democracy. So Government has to be very strong in defence. We have been so. Government has to be very strong in seeing that there are enough forces of law and order. We have increased them substantially. Government has to be very strong in trying to hold the value of your currency stable. The record of this Government and my last one on inflation is excellent and will continue. Government also has to set the framework of law in which your industries and commerce can operate. We[fo 3] have reduced many, many of the regulations which stop them really from carrying out their own function of management and enterprise. Government also has to provide certain basic social services as a safety net, and it is accepted now that we have a National Health Service, and after all you can compare my record on that with anyone else's, and that we provide the overwhelming majority of education. I've set out to see that we do those things. I've also set out to see that we do them in a way that demonstrates maximum efficiency with the money we have, and consideration for the fact that every pound we take out of people's pockets is a pound they have not got to spend on their own families, or on their own businesses. So that is the broad general philosophy and I have, I believe, been the head of a very strong Government, strong in those things, and strong equally to say over to the people for the rest because if the spirit of enterprise, of initiative, of responsibility is not still within our people, and I believe it is, then there would not be hope for the future of Britain, but I believe the character of the people of Britain has not changed."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:50 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=105679

"And when we said we meant to challenge those assumptions, our critics said, "You wouldn't dare." Well, Mr President, we dared.

Instead of incurring more overseas debts, we paid back the monies borrowed by Labour. I wonder if you noticed. You probably didn't, but just last month we paid back another $480 million borrowed by Labour in 1977. They were profligate. We are the prudent party. [applause]. We were bold. We got rid of price control, and inflation has fallen. We began to reform trade union law and to protect the rights of individual members. There is still a lot to do. And we shall do it. We scrapped some taxes and we reduced others. Mr President, if income tax were still what it was under Labour the average taxpayer would be paying £165 more to the taxman this year. "

"Over the past ten years, the United States has succeeded in creating an extra 16 million jobs—more than the whole of Western Europe put together. How have they achieved it?

Well, of course, they've not had Socialism to contend with for a start. And then they have a real "enterprise culture": a culture in which men and women expect to change their jobs, even from manufacturing to services, if that means work. Or to start up on their own.[fo 6]

Some may ask—can't we do it all by state planning? A national plan perhaps?

Almost twenty years ago, I'm told, a Labour Government produced a Plan for Scotland. It described the future for every region of the country. And believe it or not that future was all that you could wish for: more jobs, more homes, more people, and rising living standards. For every region, that is, except just one.

There was one region, it predicted, where the population was going to shrink and jobs would be scarcer.

And what was the Cinderella of the regions? It was Grampian. [laughter].

Since then, in spite of the plan, what has actually happened? In too many of the Scottish regions jobs and population have not grown, they've shrunk. There has indeed been one exception. And that one exception has been—Yes—Grampian. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:54 AM

Thanks rarelamb!

Those gave me an excellent bellylaugh!

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:02 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=106046


"This is part of our capital-owning democracy. For capitalism is the story of how the privileges of the few became the daily necessities of the many. [clapping] Communism is the story of how the privileges of the few were kept by the political few and never transferred to the many. [clapping]"

"All these things are important aspects of wider ownership. When you have something of your own, you take care of it—you do it yourself in the garden or in the house. As a property owner you respect the rights of others, and the rule of law which upholds them. [clapping] As a property owner you understand your own responsibility and you respect the responsibilities and duties of others. As a worker shareholder you take an interest in selling more goods and looking after the customers."

"But, Mr President, our vision is about much more than ownership and material things. We seek a world in which individuals can aspire to their own particular greatness. Where the quality of life is improved by the changed attitudes that prosperity and ownership can bring.[fo 10]"

"But now prosperity and having a stake in the future are not materialistic: because prosperity and a stake are bed rocks for improving the quality of life. And I get sometimes a little concerned when I hear people dispising them as 'materialism'. But you know, you have got to provide money to look after ... the old, the sick and the disabled in a more generous way. And prosperity and a stake in future are what enables us to protect the environment, to encourage the arts, to promote the sciences. All are part of our vision. They are the means through which we give voluntarily to those great charitable causes, which are so much a feature of our national life; they are the means to help others in the Third World whose plight is flashed so vividly onto our television screens. And didn't our people give so generously and wonderfully in the way in which it has become our custom to give. They are the means by which we exercise choice; and choice is the essence of liberty.

That is our vision. That is the framework which we believe government must create, and then that is the way in which we believe people will use their own talents, their own opportunities to develop, as free people. [clapping] "

"Mr President, if the last war taught us anything it taught us that appeasement never makes for peace. [clapping] On th contrary, it is weakness, not strength, that tempts th tyrants. Only with a defence that is strong, and known to be strong, can we in the West safely conduct a dialogue with the Soviet Union. Only with a defence that is strong, and known to be strong, can we hope to negotiate balanced and verifiable treaties that reduce weapons on both sides.

What conceivable incentive would there be for the Soviet Union to enter into agreements with us to limit arms if we were already busily disarming on our own? And to believe that the Soviets would follow Britain's example and embrace nuclear disarmament because Britain had pointed the way is to occupy the commanding heights of naivety. [clapping] Yet that is Labour's defence policy"


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:13 AM

I guess the media over there is a lot like the one over here. LOL!!!

"moaning minnies"!!!! LOL

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=106127

"Reporter, Tyne Tees TV

It was no surprise the Prime Minister picked as her first port of call a visit to one of the region's most successful companies. From a state of crisis just two years ago, Press Production Systems of Wallsend has built up a £60m order book supplying modules to the North Sea gas and oil industry. And if new orders it is chasing materialise, the company plans to increase the workforce from 1500 to 2000. Mrs. Thatcher was very impressed by what she saw. The company, she said, was doing a fantastic job, [words doubtful] at the right time and at the right price. When I suggested that she should also be meeting the one in five who are out of jobs in the region, it provoked this reply:

MT

Well ... [sighs] ... look. I cannot do everything. Isn't it important for me to go around to show the success of the North East. Here are you, you belong to the North East. Why don't you boost it? Why don't you boost it? Why don't you instead of asking me questions—"oh, are they going get any more", "oh, there are a lot of unemployed here". Why don't you say "look, eighty per cent are in work". Yes, we have to try to get work for the twenty per cent who aren't, but some of the work that is being done is fantastically successful. Don't you think that's the way to persuade more companies to come to this region and get more jobs—because I want them—for the people who are unemployed. Not always standing there as moaning minnies. Now stop it!

Reporter, Tyne Tees TV

[Attempts to interrupt and talks over MT. Unintelligible.]

MT

... are working very well.

Reporter, Tyne Tees TV

... unemployment rate in ... [question unintelligible]

MT

Yes, indeed. But you want in fact more jobs. So do I. And therefore you have to say in fact "look, come to this region. Come and look at the success stories in this region. Come and see what the work people of this region can do if you put your confidence in them". That is the way to get more jobs, not your way. I want more jobs. Now cheer up and go and boost the success and your much more likely to get more jobs that way."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:23 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=106185

"Governments are not experts at running businesses. They are far better run by free enterprise. Our future will then be shaped by millions of individual customers choosing what they want for their homes, their increasing leisure, their hobbies and holidays.

The job of government is to set the financial and legal framework and allow industry to work within it (and also to make it worthwhile for entrepreneurs to take risks)

That is why this Government has transferred so many companies from state control and state ownership into free enterprise.[fo 15]

Those industries which have been privatised have done well: —for employees —for shareholders —and, for the future, by producing and investing good profits.

The nation does well, too—from increased business, and the extra tax it brings to help finance capital investment and the social services. Indeed the public sector as a whole.

This is the national dividend from privatisation.[fo 16]

But there is another purpose behind privatisation: Wider share ownership. It should be as natural for people to own shares as to own their home or to own a car.

People should not be classified as either earners or owners; as either employees or shareholders. They should be both. An employee should not only be working on the shop floor or in the office. He should also be present at the Annual General Meeting as a shareholder.[fo 17]

He should be wanting to satisfy himself that Management is efficient and that profits are as good as they could be. Not only in his own company but in others in which he has shares.

He should be turning to the financial pages of the newspapers—they're usually not far from the sports page—to keep a check on how his shares are doing.

For too long it has been difficult for employees to build up capital out of earnings. We want to change that and make it easier.[fo 18]

Savings income, investment income or private income. Whatever you call it, it's best to have a little bit of your own.

All of this helps to build a more robust and more responsible society. The strength of our policies is that they are founded on the basic instincts of our people. An instinct: —for ownership —for thrift —for honest work —for fair rewards —and for helping others.[fo 19] "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:26 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=106300

"We are making strides towards my great aim of every man and woman a capitalist. We have seen a vast spread of home ownership and, of course, there has been a huge increase in personal share ownership."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:43 AM

Ok, I've put forward some speeches that show that she believes and free markets and a defender of democracy. I could go on but I think the point has been made.

Let's now go to her legacy.

http://www.bized.ac.uk/current/mind/2003_4/170504.htm

"This article will look at some of the main features of Thatcherite economic policy 25 years on.
Rubbish piling up during the refuse workers strike in 1979.

When Mrs Thatcher won the election in 1979, economic growth stood at just over 2% but this apparently respectable figure hid many problems. Unemployment had been rising from 2% to 4% reaching a million and inflation stood at 13.4%. The election was fought in the shadow of the 'winter of discontent' - public sector workers throughout the UK went on strike following frustration with policies that attempted to restrain their pay to keep inflation under control. Rubbish went uncollected, as dustmen amongst others seemed to reflect the growing trend towards industrial unrest that gave the UK such a bad reputation.

Image: Rubbish piling up outside Charing Cross Hospital in London during the refuse workers strike in 1979. Rats loved it though! Title: Rubbish Pile. Copyright: Getty Images, available from Education Image Gallery.

The government was borrowing £8.5 billion a year with total government debt standing at nearly 44% of GDP and had previously borrowed from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to ward of a balance of payments crisis. Sterling was strong, causing pressure on exporters who in turn were hampered by the lack of attention to quality and the poor reputation British manufactured goods had around the world. Things were not good. Mrs Thatcher promised a new approach.

At the heart of Thatcherite economics were the following:

    * A belief in freeing up markets
    * De-regulation to encourage enterprise and efficiency
    * Reducing the influence of government
    * Reducing the strength of the trade unions
    * Cutting personal taxation and shifting the burden to indirect taxation
    * Increasing incentives to enterprise and improvement
    * Increasing public involvement in business - shareholding for example
    * Increasing public property ownership - through the sales of council housing
    * A focus on monetary policy to control inflation and economic growth

It is hard for those who have not lived through this period to understand the impact these policies had. The years after the end of the Second World War had seen government take an increasing hand in the economy - Keynesian demand management was the order of the day. If unemployment - the main focus of such policies, were too high, the government would engineer economic growth through operating a budget deficit - spending more than it received in tax revenue. The multiplier effect would lead to economic growth and unemployment would fall. Booms in the economy could be dealt with through a reverse of this policy.

Mrs Thatcher however, believed that such policies lead to society becoming too reliant on the state to provide - especially with regard to the economy. The British car industry was typical of such a problem. Widespread industrial unrest, massive losses, increased competition and poor quality products had weakened the car industry. Being such a key industry in terms of employment - including all the ancillary work that goes with it - led successive governments to use taxpayer's money to support the industry. Such support could not go on indefinitely.

State owned utilities such as gas, electricity, telecommunications and water along with other nationalised industries like steel and coal, were all seen as being inefficient and victims of state control. Mrs Thatcher intended to bring competition to these industries, to make people appreciate the necessity of operating in real world markets, as a vital plank of her policy as well as bringing people into contact with share ownership and thus having greater understanding of how businesses work.

During the next 13 years, most state owned enterprises were privatised, share ownership amongst ordinary people increased dramatically, most of these enterprises became efficient profit making organisations although the cost was seen as being massive. Thousands of jobs were shed in the drive to profitability prior to privatisation; the industrial landscape of Britain changed beyond recognition, communities were laid waste - especially in the coalfields and steel-producing areas of the UK and services became the dominant business type.

Mrs Thatcher oversaw cuts in income tax - the bands were reduced and the top rate cut from 83% to 40% whilst the lower band was also cut. To replace this, VAT was increased from 8% to 15% and then again to 17.5%. Targets were set for the growth in the money supply as attempts to cut inflation were strengthened.

In addition, Mrs Thatcher passed numerous bits of legislation cutting the power of the unions. There were high profile strikes by the miners in 1984 and the print workers in Wapping in 1986, following the sacking of 6000 of them after their refusal to accept new working regimes by Rupert Murdoch's News International Group. Both of these strikes were long and violent but Mrs Thatcher stood firm. The unions would not blackmail the country and the failure of both strikes led to a new approach by the unions and a new attitude to industrial relations.
Confrontations between strikers and police at the News International Plant in Wapping.

Image: The sacking of 6000 print workers led to regular violent confrontations between strikers and police at the News International Plant in Wapping in East London. Title: Strike Conflict. Copyright: Getty Images, available from Education Image Gallery.
Police surround striking coalminers.

Image: High profile police action and the reluctance of some miners in key areas such as parts of Nottinghamshire to join in, prevented the miners' strike from having the effects on the country that it had in 1972. The strike was seen as being a test case in the battle between militant unions and the government. Title: Coalminers Strike. Copyright: Getty Images, available from Education Image Gallery.

By 1987, inflation had been brought down to around 4%, unemployment was falling albeit from a high of 12% of the working population - a total of 3-4 million people depending on whom you believe - and economic growth was rising at between 4 and 5%. Government debt had fallen to 27.7% of GDP by 1990 with the government running a budget surplus of some £6 billion.

To all intents and purposes it was an economic miracle. Mrs Thatcher had succeeded in creating for herself a whole economic philosophy much of which endures not only in the UK but also in many other European countries. Even Tony Blair managed to use the same quote from St Francis of Assisi to describe government as Mrs Thatcher did on the steps of 10 Downing Street on the day of her accession to office!
Mrs Thatcher makes a speech in front of a crown logo.

Things did start to go wrong - the economy grew too fast by the late eighties, and inflation was rising. The brakes were put on but it caused a deep recession lasting into the middle nineties. Despite this crash, the legacy of Mrs Thatcher still seems to be that she turned round the country and that she made people become aware of the necessity for stable economic policies, for paying our way, standing on our own two feet and not expecting someone else to bail us out of our problems. The relative economic stability we now seem to enjoy does, in many people's eyes, depend in large part to the medicine that Mrs Thatcher gave us; it inculcated a new approach to the economy, even though at the time we didn't enjoy it.

It is now fourteen years since Mrs Thatcher resigned. Whatever anybody thinks of her, she left an indelible mark on the UK economy that does still have an impact on economic policy making."



/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I wanted to highlight this:

"To all intents and purposes it was an economic miracle. Mrs Thatcher had succeeded in creating for herself a whole economic philosophy much of which endures not only in the UK but also in many other European countries. Even Tony Blair managed to use the same quote from St Francis of Assisi to describe government as Mrs Thatcher did on the steps of 10 Downing Street on the day of her accession to office!"

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:52 AM

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1739276,00.html

"In addition to reigning in public finances, German growth could be stimulated by getting more people into jobs, following a system employed in Great Britain, according to Henning Klodt of the Kiel Institute for World Economics.



By the 1980s, Britain was faced with an unemployment rate of over 11 percent and the country had sunk into an economic malaise. In terms of national wealth, the UK was 8 percent below the average western European average. According to many, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's sometimes controversial reforms, which reduced public spending, lowered direct taxes, deregulated and privatized state-run companies, were key in turning Britain's economy around.



Former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's reforms started Great Britain on the road to recovery "Thatcher's reforms in Great Britain in the beginning of the 80s, which were also carried out by Tony Blair, demanded people either learn a new trade or do community work," Klodt said."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:55 AM

"Mrs Thatcher had succeeded in creating for herself a whole economic philosophy much of which endures not only in the UK but also in many other European countries."

Quite! That's the problem in a nutshell!

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Tam the man
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:55 AM

she was just like any other politicion and that is they all talk crap.

Tom


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Arnie
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:56 AM

Is this GUEST,rarelamb some sort of a computer programmed by Tory Central Office?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 12:06 PM

No. He/she simply appears to disagree with you Bennites.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 12:11 PM

http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20050915-090259-3005r.htm

" From the time of the Thatcher reforms in the early 1980s, Britain has been the star economic performer among the major European nations.The British went from having the lowest per capita income of the European big four (Germany, France, Italy and Britain) to having the highest one"


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 12:23 PM

http://www.heritage.org/Research/PoliticalPhilosophy/HL650.cfm

"In the 1970s, Britain's economy was in a sorry state: Many people were regularly referring to the "British disease." This was not an exaggeration: "during the nineteenth century and the first three fifths of the twentieth century the United Kingdom remained ahead [in terms of output per head] of nearly all the main European countries."13 "Since 1960, however, an absolute gap emerged...[and] by 1973 most European Economic Community countries were 30 to 40 per cent ahead of Britain."14

Productivity was much lower than in continental Europe: According to studies by international corporations, at the end of the 1970s net output per head was over 50 percent higher in German and French plants than in corresponding plants in the United Kingdom.15 To top this all, Britain experienced rampant inflation--from 1972 to 1977, while the OECD price level rose by 60 percent, the British level rose by 120 percent--and high unemployment--by 1977, the British unemployment rate was 7 percent, or 2.5 percent above the OECD average."

"To put it bluntly, by the 1970s Britain was a basket case. Many economists agree that the excessive power of labor unions was responsible for the sorry state of Britain's economy.24 For example, according to Samuel Brittan:

    [M]any of the particular perversities of British economic policy stem from the belief that inflation must be fought by regulation of specific pay settlements. To create a climate in which the unions will tolerate such intervention has been the object of much government activity. This has involved price controls, high marginal tax rates, and a special sensitivity to union leaders' views on many aspects of policy. The post-1972 period of especially perverse intervention began, not with a change of government, but with the conversion of the Heath Conservative government to pay and price controls.25

Brittan is referring to the disastrous economic policies uniformly pursued by Conservative and Labour governments in Britain during the 1970s.26 In particular, the Conservative government to which Brittan is referring started with admirable intentions. In the Conservative manifesto for the 1970 election, one reads:

    [W]e reject the detailed intervention of socialism, which usurps the function of management, and seeks to dictate prices and earnings in industry.... Our aim is to identify and remove obstacles that prevent effective competition and restrict initiative.27

These admirable intentions were not followed by equally commendable policies. In fact,

    [T]he Conservative government of 1970-74 was the most corporatist of the post-war years. Its economic policies ended in disaster and the Conservative party lost two elections in succession. Not surprisingly, Mr. Heath lost the leadership of the party....28

According to Brittan, the excessive power of organized labor also influenced the tax code, with devastating consequences:

    For most of the postwar period the real trouble has been...not average tax rates but the very high marginal rates of tax, both at the top and at the bottom of the income scale. The top marginal rates are not only higher than in other industrial countries, but reached at a much lower level of income. These are entirely political taxes. The revenue collected at the top is trivial in statistical terms; and the real effect is certainly to lower revenue.... As important...is the diversion of scarce energy and talent into trying to convert income into capital, or into benefits in kind not taxable at these rates.29

Thatcher

This was the background of the advent of Mrs. Thatcher. Wrong economic theories, entrenched interest groups, and a widespread aversion for the free market had resulted in economic sclerosis, inflation, unemployment, and general decline. She intended to change all of this, and she did.

Her first battle was in the field of macroeconomic policy, where there was a switch from reliance on fiscal policy as a means of managing aggregate demand to the use of monetary policy. In fiscal policy the aim was that of reducing the deficit (PSBR: Public Sector Borrowing Requirement). In the field of taxation, the goal was that of restoring incentives to work, save, and invest through cuts in all tax rates, especially at the highest levels. The underlying philosophy was that the restoration of incentives was more important than the search for equality.

But where she really excelled was in macroeconomic or supply side reforms:

[A]fter the inflation-fighting campaign of 1979-82, [she engaged in] non-stop reform of the supply side--union laws, privatisation, deregulation, local government finance reform, housing, radical tax reform and much else.30

Thatcher also succeeded in taming the unions. Even her detractors concede that that was one of her great successes, one which she shares with President Reagan:

    [Reagan and Thatcher] did make considerable progress in shrinking the role of government, and in expanding the reach of market forces in the microeconomy. Both did so, first, by taming the trade union power.... The President successfully broke a strike by air traffic controllers in 1981.... The Prime Minister equally successfully broke a strike in 1984-85 by coal miners determined to impose their leader's political agenda on an electorate that had rejected it.31

She also succeeded in shrinking government's direct role in the economy through privatization. It is generally recognized that "Thatcherism's success in converting state-owned to privately-owned enterprises...[was] a programme so radical in conception, and so successful in operation, as to have won the highest form of flattery from other nations--imitation."32 Contrary to what people both on the right and on the left maintain, Mrs. Thatcher's successes do not include a reduction in total public spending: "Indeed, 18 years of Tory government left the state's overall share of the economy virtually undiminished: 44% of GDP in 1979 and 43% in 1996."33

To sum up, Thatcher succeeded in drastically reducing inflation in a country that had become dependent on it; taming the power of what were probably the most powerful labor unions in Europe; privatizing a large portion of a bloated public sector; enacting a tax code more favorable to entrepreneurship and investment; and establishing the conditions for long-term economic growth.

She put an end to the "British disease." She put Britain back to work. Last, but definitely not least, she shifted the focus of political debate on economic issues. Mr. Blair's economic program would have been considered Conservative in the 1970s. If Labour has been forced to drastically alter its position, this is largely due to Mrs. Thatcher's legacy. One can criticize some details, but overall hers has been a fantastic success.34
How Did She Do It?

How did she do it? I believe there are several factors that contributed to Thatcher's "Conservative Revolution."

Ideas. There is no doubt that Thatcher's success is largely due to the power of ideas. She acknowledged the important role played by the Institute of Economic Affairs in providing the intellectual ammunition and the inspiration for her program. On the occasion of the 30th anniversary of the IEA, she said:

    [T]he Institute began at a time when despite free speech in a free country, there prevailed what I would call a censorship of fashion. Anyone who dared to challenge the conventional wisdom of the post-war years was frowned-upon, criticized, derided and pilloried as being reactionary or ignorant.... You set out to change public sentiment.... May I say how thankful we are to those academics, some of whom were very lonely, and to those journalists who joined your great endeavour. I do not think they ever numbered 364. They were the few. But they were right, and they saved Britain.35

Without those ideas, Thatcher's revolution would have been impossible. However, let's not forget that most of them were already available 10 years earlier at the time of the Heath government. It can be argued that in 1979 the justification for a radical change in economic policy was stronger than ever before, but it is still true that ideas alone do not explain the revolution. They were a necessary, but certainly not a sufficient, cause for the change.

Circumstances. It is true that by the end of the 1970s, the evidence of the failure of the statist policies pursued by both Labour and Tory governments was overwhelming. I believe that circumstances did play a role in Thatcher's success. However, the evidence of the failure of those anti-market policies was already in existence in 1970, even though it was not as conspicuous as in 1979.

Furthermore, let's not forget that not everybody drew the same conclusions from that experience. Certainly not the Labour Party that in 1979 was as Socialist as ever. And, as far as academic economists are concerned, the vast majority was convinced that there was no need for a change in policy, as revealed by the 364 of them who signed a manifesto against the new policies of the Thatcher government. The evidence was undoubtedly there, and it helped Thatcher's cause, but it had been there before with no impact, and many educated people still failed to draw the correct conclusions from it.

Interests. The trade unions had abused their power, and this made the case for reducing their influence stronger than ever. However, even this was not new: The danger omnipotent labor unions pose to a free society had been obvious for years, yet nobody had ever tried to tame them.

Leadership. I believe that, while these factors played a role in Thatcher's success, the crucial element was her personality, her principled and uncompromising leadership. It can be said of her what Ted Kennedy said of Reagan:

    It would be foolish to deny that his success was fundamentally rooted in a command of public ideas. Ronald Reagan may have forgotten names, but never his goals. He was a great communicator, not simply because of his personality or his teleprompter, but mostly because he had something to communicate.36

She dared do what no one else had had the courage to do in Britain for decades: challenge the prevailing consensus, the common wisdom, the entrenched interests, and drive a reluctant party and a befuddled country in a radically new direction.

I can testify to her unusual personality. I have had the chance to meet her several times even before I entered politics. Once, in 1991, there was a conference in Fiesole, near Florence, organized by the National Review Institute. During a coffee break, we were walking along the portico of the hotel. Tuscany's countryside looked magnificent under the afternoon sun. Mrs. Thatcher remarked: "Yours is a beautiful country, with a rotten government." To which I replied: "My dear lady, the opposite would be much worse."

Her straightforward, direct way of putting things, so unusual for a political leader, earned her some enemies among other leaders but made for a refreshing contrast with the hypocrisy and vacuity of the accepted political discourse. At times, she probably overdid it. For example, on that same occasion in Fiesole, during her summing-up of the conference, she came out with the statement: "Civilization is the exclusive prerogative of English-speaking peoples." I was the only non-English, non-American in the room. I looked at John O'Sullivan, who was sitting next to me. He smiled and said, "You have been consigned to barbarism!"

She can also be very kind and thoughtful. When we won the elections in Italy in 1994, she sent me a fax of congratulations. I called her to thank her for her kindness. She gave me her usual pep talk: "You must do for Italy what I did for Britain." I attempted to explain that we were at a disadvantage compared to her. I said: "You had a Constitution that was written in the hearts and the minds of your people. We don't. You had an independent judiciary. We don't. You had a clean and effective civil service. We don't. You had a single party majority. We don't. You had those think tanks, like the IEA, that provided you with the right ideas. We don't."

"However," I added, "we have something which you didn't have." "What's that?" she said. "Your example," I replied.

As to the relative importance of ideas and/or leadership, she gave her own view on the occasion of the celebration of the 30th anniversary of the IEA. After having listened to a series of speeches by distinguished academics, all praising the great importance of ideas, she thus concluded her remarks: "Speaking as the eleventh speaker and the only woman, I hope you will recall that it may be the cock that crows but it is the hen who lays the eggs."
What Can We Learn from Thatcher?

The lesson to be drawn is quite simple and not particularly encouraging: Mrs. Thatcher's success owes much to the intellectual revolution in economic theory. She did not invent anything new; there was nothing novel or original in her economic policies. However, while those ideas had been available for a long time, they had not been translated into policy changes until she came about. It was her leadership, courage, determination, and intellectual integrity that allowed those intellectual insights to inspire actual economic policies and change Britain."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 12:34 PM

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pressAndInformationOffice/publications/books/Britains_Relative_Economic_Performance.htm

"One of Professor Craft's conclusions is that the economic reforms which began with the Thatcher governments, and which have broadly been continued under New Labour, have made a difference, avoiding some of the 'government failures' of earlier years. How managers respond to the revolution in information and communications technology is now a key factor in determining Britain's future performance."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 12:40 PM

http://www.cato.org/dailys/02-16-03.html

"During the 1950s, '60s, and '70s, the U.K. had a much lower rate of economic growth than Germany, France and Italy. By the time Margaret Thatcher took over in 1979 as prime minister, the U.K. was known as the "sick man of Europe." At that time, Britain had the most socialized economy in Europe and, as would be expected, the worst economic performance. Mrs. Thatcher undertook a massive program to privatize the economy and reduced taxes and spending.

Since the time of the Thatcher revolution, Britain has had the best economic performance of the four big countries in the European Union (i.e., Germany, France, Italy and the U.K.), but has not done as well as some of the smaller countries, like Ireland, which even more drastically cut tax rates. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 01:14 PM

http://www.nber.org/programs/ls/ls.html

"Among these international projects, Card and I, working with Richard Blundell, directed a major investigation of the British economy in conjunction with the Centre for Economic Performance of the London School of Economics and the Institute of Fiscal Studies. We found that the Thatcher and ensuing economic reforms increased market freedoms and flexibility, improving employment rates, and ending the U.K.'s downward slide in GDP per capita, but with the cost of higher inequality (8801, 8253, 8448, 8413). But in the United Kingdom, real wages grew more rapidly than did inequality, so that the standard of living of even those at the bottom of the earnings distribution improved during this period. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 01:30 PM

Stole from the poor.

Gave to the rich.

Stupid bitch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 01:37 PM

http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/000126.html

"In his Whitehall office, a cabinet minister was bemoaning the fact that the government does not get enough credit for cutting unemployment — which last week dropped to 860,000, its lowest for nearly 30 years.

There have been plenty of articles, it was pointed out to him, that contrast Britain's low unemployment with the high jobless totals in Europe."

"Britain's unemployment rate, on a comparable basis, is 4.8%, against 9.4% in France and 9.8% in Germany. Unemployment stands at under half the EU average.

Per capita gross domestic product in Britain, according to a new report from Capital Economics, is higher at $30,200 (£16,440), than Germany's $29,200 or France's $28,500.

The economic momentum is with us. Britain has been growing continuously for 12 years, during which time other EU countries have suffered at least one recession and in some cases two. The sick man of Europe has made a remarkable recovery.

"The divergence in economic performance between the main continental economies and us began about 10 years ago and will continue for the foreseeable future unless we get dragged down by the constitution and the charter of fundamental human rights," said Ian Milne, a businessman and author for the think tank Civitas. "

"The CBI, once regarded as unquestioningly pro-EU, is increasingly critical. "The model that took the EU through the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s is now failing the people of Europe," said Digby Jones, its director-general.

"It is not British arrogance or Little Englander to say this. Britain has taken some very hard decisions over the past 25 years, both the Tories and Labour, and these policies have delivered the most successful economy in Europe.

"I don't blame anybody who says, 'We're not going to give up on this'. So much of what I see coming out of Brussels wants to take us back to 1970." "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 02:10 PM

May she not see the month out.Murder.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 02:41 PM

Ok this is my cups de gracias or peace de raisins. Keep in mind that these are quotes from Paul Krugman, aka liberal lacky.

http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/want_growth_speak_english.htm

" A slight variant is the Margaret Thatcher theory. In the 1980s there was an ideological groundswell in the English-speaking world in favor of markets and against government intervention; perhaps the rest of the advanced world missed the tide because it couldn't read Milton Friedman in the original."

" On the whole, I'd probably place most of the emphasis on Greenspan and Thatcher."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Patrick Magee
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 02:49 PM

If only we had met in 1984. Best wishes Margaret, Patrick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 03:20 PM

I have to admit, I had to look up 'tosser'.

http://cgi.peak.org/~jeremy/retort.cgi?British=tosser

Apparently it is not a very nice word. But the site is very helpful for english-american translations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 03:25 PM

The word is often applied to those who extol the virtues(?)of not very nice people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: danensis
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 04:05 PM

For someone who thought there was no such thing as society she spent a lot of time and energy trying to wreck ours. Her legacy is the "me first" philosophy of the eighties and nineties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 07:01 PM

She is now living the hell herself that she brought to so many others.A twisted bitter old woman living alone and calling in favours to get her daft son out of trouble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 07:15 PM

I would also point out that even if (which is not admitted) any of what rarelamb says is properly founded, he makes the same fundamental mistake as one of the ones that Thatcher made and even later admitted - the evaluation of wellbeing only in cash terms, and the failure to value for example proper health care provision but also many other things - of which justice might be but one other thing.

I would also point out that the economic values described above do not include the values - not even the money values - of the provisions (excluding cash) properly provided by the welfare state.

Finally, for this post, the assertion that Thatcherism made even the poorest in society richer in bald economic terms is still untenable, for the statistics above rely on measuring the incomes of cohorts of finite size, and within the poorest cohort there are many who failed to do as well as the average of the cohort. By choosing smaller cohorts, the contrary can obviously be shown.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 04:22 AM

And the alternative was? Len Murray as PM? Arthur Scargill as Foreign Secretary? I remember the 1970's very well. In the building industry the demarcation caused by the unions meant that a joiners labourer would not pick up a brick because that was the job of the bricklayers labourer! It was that ridiculous!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 06:29 AM

I second John Rouse's observation entirely. And that legacy remains today.

Didn't we get Mad Cow disease from them being fed rare lamb?

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Mr Fox
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 06:38 AM

And I hope that you die
And that your death comes soon
And I'll follow your coffin
On a pale afternoon
And I'll watch as you're lowered
Into your last bed
Then I'll p*** on your grave when I'm sure that you're dead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Redhorse at work
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 08:24 AM

rarelamb as an American did not have to live under MT. So lacking in the experience he falls for the BS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Ex coal miner
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 08:57 AM

Rarelamb is a total tory wanker, and he will come to know if he visits here often enough, nobody reads posts longer than half a page, especially cut and paste from tory central office.

I can't believe this flamenco ted is real, if he is he must be the only tory from 'ull


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 09:06 AM

Thatcher had a paranoid hatred of :- trade unions, coal miners and working class people in general.

This rarelamb obviously doesn't know about the whole communities destroyed by her bitterness towards the miners, or her spite in inflicting the poll tax on the Scots for not returning any tory MPs.

She employed an American to similarly destroy the British steel industry.

No doubt this crazy old harridan is still full of bile and bitterness
towards the tories who got rid of her.

I hope she dies a long lingering painful death.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 09:16 AM

More than a dozen responses and not a single arguement. Plenty of slander and death wishes, but remarkably few substantive points.

Is this because her detractors have little to base their position?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 09:36 AM

The above posts supporting this woman says a lot about them, then again look at the names. No surprise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 01:24 PM

Don't expect arguments on a thread about Mrs Thatcher, rarelamb. You don't get arguments from the bitter and twisted. Argument requires the use of reason, than which vicious hatred is so much simpler for the ignorant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 01:32 PM

WAUGH!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 05:35 PM

I wish her as much ill as she inflicted upon the children, pensioners and innocent ordinary people of our once great nation.
I wish her life to be ruined like she ruined the lives of miners, nurses, dockers,and anybody who had the misfortune to not be a rich.
I would also vote for a painful lingering death in a public ward of an underfunded hospital, being fed with the crap which privatised caterers fob the sick off with. I woulf like to see her in a privatised Old-Folks home where profits to the owners take precedence over giving proper care to the inhabitants. I would like to see her suffering the flesh-eating consequences of private profit in hospital hygiene.
I personally hope she rots, not in hell, but here on earth.
Quack!
Geoff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 06:26 PM

Thanks rarelamb for taking the trouble to point the case so comprehensively - however due to the subject matter you cannot expect to receive any thanks for opening the eyes of the bulk of the membership. As you have yourself noted, not one single counter arguement, or refutation of fact, has been offered, by your detractors. Of course had CarolC, Bobert, Amos or Don Frith gone through the same exercise on their own pet subjects the bulk of the membership of this forum would be salivating in their praise for such diligence and attention to detail.

"....once great nation" !!!!! in the 1960's and 1970's Geoff the Duck - Who the hell are you trying to kid - The entire country was going to hell in a hand-cart. Had that state of affairs been allowed to continue who then would have have blamed for the misery and poverty to be inflicted on those you seem to care so much for, because, believe it, or not, their plight would have been much, much worse.

If any of the membership attempts to peddle the line that Margaret Thatcher invented/introduced the traits of pursuit of self-interest and greed to this nation, you will only be denying the history of the people of the British Isles from the year dot.

One last thing, would people quoting the "no such thing as society" bit please quote fully what Margaret Thatcher said and the context in which she said it - you won't because it will not advance the point you wish to make, or portray the lady in the light you wish to cast her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: yrlancslad
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 02:05 AM

Like you Rarelamb, I never had to live under her as I had escaped abroad before her reign.But as an ex-miner I hope she enjoys a long and painfull old age and that I'm there to piss on her grave when she goes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 03:30 AM

What rarelamb has regurgitated in his cut-and-pastes Teribus are merely hacked-up opinions, not facts.

The facts are what we see around us now as a result of her legacy, speak for themselves and continue to do so. You want refutation of rarelamb's nonsense. Would you like the condensed version (maybe about 100 pages giuven drastic editing) or the full account (probably a lifetime's work, given the negative and destructive impact she and her cohorts had on society).

I would not wish her personal ill but, nevertheless, her influence remains in the "me first" attitude prevalent in current society and the damage she wrought on almost every area of UK infrastructure.

Sometimes I think people like you must walk round with their eyes closed.

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 11:03 AM

On the contrary Mooman - 19 Oct 05 - 03:30 AM:

I am certainly not the one walking around with my eyes closed - or blinkered for that matter.

If what rarelamb did provide was opinion - it seems to have come from rather a wide range of extremely well considered, knowledgable and none to partisan sources, who seem to have written those opinions based upon the facts before them.

But here are some facts Mooman - In 1979 the UK was in a mess (Crisis! What Crisis??) The Conservatives won by a landslide because of a common realisation that something had to be done. According to what you seem to suggest with your woolley talk about society and community, the impression that the country was being run like Trumpton or Camberwick Green is ludicrous. The nation was bankrupt and sinking fast even after having gone to the IMF for loans to keep us afloat - Unions ran the country - not the elected government. That Mooman was FACT.

Within 10 years the situation had been completely turned round the UK had the healthiest economy in Europe - That Mooman is another FACT.

Now let's take your advice and take a look at - "what we see around us now as a result of her legacy", lets see if they - "speak for themselves and continue to do so." It has been around 15 years since Margaret Thatcher left Downing Street, during those 15 years we've had a Conservative Government until 1997 and a Labour Government from 1997 to the present day. How many of her policies have been reversed? None - How come Moo? - Don't wrack your brain the question's rhetorical - because her policies worked and they continue to do so. Margaret Thatcher's counterparts in both France and Germany dearly wished that they could have done the same. If they had those countries would not be in the state that they are in now. They could not impliment similar reforms because of their weak political systems and their own lack of courage and determination to bite the bullet and do what was right for their respective nations as a whole. Maggie did not suffer from any such doubt, she had the mandate from the people and the courage and determination to see the job through - in short Moo she provided Leadership (something hated and despised by the left, I know, you guys all like to believe that things happen by collective happen-chance, they don't - two people in a rowing boat after the ship has gone down, one of them has to be the Captain or both perish - that's another FACT Mooman).

The "me first" attitude prevalent in current society has always existed to deny that fact denies common human nature, there has never been any great sense of 'noblesse oblige' among the 'common folk' of the British Isles - that was the burden of the aristocracy. As for the state of all these areas of UK infrastructure, I would have hated to have seen what state they would have been in if things had been left to drift without her. Where would the necessary investment have come from Moo? - handouts from the EU, or more loans from the IMF. Neither would have worked because the Unions would have ensured that that little lot was squandered propping up no-hope, lame-duck industries.

Sometimes I think people like you must walk round with their eyes, ears and minds firmly closed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 11:35 AM

Teribus,

I believe from your incredible post you are the one blinded and confused by dogma, not me. All that you have quoted is right-wing opinion, not fact.

By the way, I have worked in the political sphere in Europe (sorry to mention that dirty word) for more than 14 years and was involved in local politics for many years in the UK before I came to live in Belgium.

I am currently not a member of any political party nor do I desire to be.

I have probably forgotten more politics (especially European and international politics) than you will ever know.

And don't "Moo" and "Mooman" me throughout your posts. It is pathetic and patronizing and does you no credit whatsoever.

With respect,

mooman


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 11:59 AM

Ooops mooman,

I note that your post of 19 Oct 05 - 11:35 AM, provides no counter arguements to any fact, opinion or observation that I detailed in the post you were responding to - Not one.

So with all your vast experience you have the complete and utter gall to attempt to tell me how great things were in the UK pre-1979 and how that awful woman Thatcher came along and ruined it all - Utter crap Mooman and I for one refuse point blank to swallow it - why because I lived through both periods and kept my eyes and ears open.

If you have indeed, "...worked in the political sphere in Europe (sorry to mention that dirty word) for more than 14 years and was involved in local politics for many years in the UK before I came to live in Belgium." I wouldn't shout too loud about it.

As to your not being, "...a member of any political party nor do I desire to be." That's probably a damn good thing, if however you do decide to change your mind, it would be greatly appreciated if you applied all your vast political knowledge over there in Belgium.

Lastly if you do want to refer things that could be considered pathetic and patronising - I give you an example of your own:

"I have probably forgotten more politics (especially European and international politics) than you will ever know."

Oh! Wow!! Mooman - I am supposed to be what exactly, cowed into silence? Impressed beyond words? No don't think so - If any such as youself ever comes close to figuratively pissing on my back and then try telling me that it's raining, believe me you will get a reaction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:00 PM

I for one wish that there was more dogma on this thread. I have consistently been an unapologetic proponent of Libertarian values on this board.

If there was more dogma from the left, one would at least be able to understand the arguements. What I have seen has been attempts to call names and wish ill health. That is hardly conducive to a discussion.

Nor is posting that I am wrong but not explaining the whys or under what basis I am incorrect, helpful in this discussion. The opposition has not put forward a coherent arguement. That is the problem. I welcome others to put forward evidence as to why I am incorrect, or at least put forward an alternative explaination of Lady Thatcher's time in office.

The only arguement put forward that I can tell is that she is responsible for a 'me first' attitude in the UK.   It was correctly put forward that there has always been a 'me first' attitude. I challenge anyone to prove an act is altruistic.

I will end this post with a couple of quotes from a Britain from the 18th century.

"It is not the benevolence of the butcher the baker or the brewer that we derive our meals but rather of their self love"

"Every individual necessarily labours to render teh annual revenue of society as great as he can. He neither intends to promote the public interest nor knows how much he has. He is in this as in many othe rcases led by an invisible hand to promote an end that was not part of his intentions."

or something there abouts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:34 PM

Teribus,

Now you're showing your true colours! Reduced again to pathetic insults.

Many others here know me personally. You don't.

I lived though "both periods" in the UK just like you.

And I'm not embarassed about working in Europe at all. Far from it. And as for Belgium... can any poor ill soul in the UK see a medical specialist of their own choice within 48 hours? You can here. Are there free local community creches in the UK? Is there automatic "maternelle" schooling for 2 and a half to 5 year olds? Yes to both here. Can you go out in the city centre and enjoy a quiet drink and meal with your family at any time without fear of yobbery and drunken behaviour? You can here. Is there a proper integrated, efficient and affordable transport system there? No, I thought not. Do you systematically recycle your household refuse? Can anyone who passes their "bacc" go to university with fees equivalent to only about £200 year? No, I didn't think so either. Do you have shop assistants who routinely speak four languages? Have you had completely electronic banking and cabled neighbourhoods throughout the country for the last 15 years? Do you have affordable housing? I could go on...

Frankly I am singularly unimpressed with your tone and rhetoric as you have the reputation of being something of a "champion" of the right wing here. Your knowledge of European politics is, however, minimal.

As for refuting your arguments, I don't have the time to sit here for hours like you and rarelamb reproducing and pasting up tired second-hand political kant. However, I would more than happily meet you for a couple of beers at some future date and, with reasoned argument, debunk the patent dogma you present here.

Respectfully,

mooman


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 01:27 PM

Hey Mooman,

Nothing at all to be ashamed about in working in Europe - but working in the political sphere in Europe for more than 14 years. Anything to do with that Franco-German Junketing Corps known as the EU? The most corrupt, inefficient, non-transparent organisation in existence.

Very impressive list of what you all have there in Belgium, Moo. It might of course be rather different if the Belgians had to foot the bill on their own, and that is a situation that is only going to get worse, as both the French and the Germans now fully realise (because neither can they). It has always amused me with regard to the EU when the pro-Europe lobby intimate that the UK could be expelled from the EU. They couldn't of course, no body of people go rushing into a good resturaunt for a five-course meal then eject one of those who has to pay the bill.

No arguements put forward by you at all apart from the impression all too prevalent on this forum of Left-wing Dogma Good - Right-wing Dogma Bad and you have the cheek to pull me up for 'pathetic insults'.

I do not think I have ever hear anything so pathetic and patronising as your, "I have probably forgotten more politics (especially European and international politics) than you will ever know."

You state correctly that I do not know you personally but then the converse is also true - like you, I go on what you submit to the various threads on this forum - so your point is?

By the bye, I do believe that I would rather live where I do than in Belgium.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 03:39 AM

Teribus,

No, I do not work for the EU or any of the other EU institutions and, for once, I actually agree with you on something about their junketing, scandalous pay and lack of transparency. Actually, my full Belgian taxes taxes (out of a very modest salary... and I pay the same as the locals, no special "ex-pat" status) go to pay for all the positive things I listed as well as for the EU institutions' salaries, buildings and all their perks. I work for a medical association and my job involves fighting to improve healthcare provision, effectiveness and safety for all EU citizens. I believe I try to practice what I preach.

As for the rest, we will have to agree to differ radically. I however prefer to argue with someone who has different views to me than someone who has no views at all. If we ever do meet I am prepared to personally argue my case in depth with you. It is a pity you can't do so here without being patronizing in your posts. It brought out the worst in me and for that I am sorry.

Respectfully,

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 04:14 AM

"EU institutions' salaries, buildings and all their perks" We don't need ANY of that lot!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 04:34 AM

P.S. Teribus,

...which is perhaps Hawick given your Mudcat name?

Respectfully,

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 04:45 AM

99


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 04:46 AM

100. I thank you! MY thread, my 100th, so there!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 05:12 AM

Well done ted, you sad sad man.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 09:21 AM

Don't deny Ted his little pleasures. It's a harmless little obsession of his, and will reamin so, so long as he keeps taking the pills....


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 10:28 AM

Mooman,

Thanks for your post, in turn please accept my apologies.

Hawick I know well, but I do not live there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 02:04 PM

What a coincidence. I just received a recipe for Hawick Balls.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 09:29 PM

Very please to hear that BPL - You'll enjoy sucking them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 10:59 AM

Has anyone else been watching 'tory,tory,tory' on BBC4? This surely confirms Mrs T's standing as second only to Sir Winston Churchill as the greatest Englishman ever? Such vision, intellect and drive, fabulous!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 11:16 AM

Tory Tory Tory provides an interesting overview of the most ideologically driven British Prime Minister of the 20th Century.
Lest it be forgotten she bankrupted her own party intellectually & morally.
She was sacked by that party on the perfectly reasonable grounds that she had become an electoral liability.
She created the climate in which her party became unelectable & has failed to notice that the current Tory leader's so far succesful strategy of reclaiming that lost support consists for the most part of publicly refuting everything she ever stood for.
No miss.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 12:00 PM

I think it would be pretty safe to delete this thread.

If they want to wish her happy birthday - let the buggers send her a card. like everybody else.

Even the tories are coming round to realising that she was barking mad and did incalculable harm to the fabric of this country, and . and after a bout of relative sanity nobody wants all that back

all that unemployment
all that bloodshed in Ireland
all that pride in indifference to human suffering and sneering from the tory party conference platform
all that hijacking of health and education exchequers to further mad bastard right wing policies from the national curriculum to fundholding gp practices

the only industry she brought to this country was hard drugs and begging on the street

no one who really loved this country ever voted for her. no real patriot. only right wing assholes and they can't articulate anything so they cut and paste and generally shite up mudcat with verbose bloody nonsense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Peace
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 12:20 PM

I think it's very nice of someone to wish Eleanor Thatcher a happy birthday. She was in film and her talent was substantial. Why are people slagging her?

The Road to Ruin (1934) .... Dancer
Over the Counter (1932)
Wild People (1932) .... Singer


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Boston Boy
Date: 23 Mar 06 - 12:39 PM

When you look at who brought the thread back to life it says it all. Can we not get this anti Irish bore onto another site ???


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 04:38 AM

She made her disciples believe that greed and selfishness were virtues, in truth a vote for Thatcher was a vote for selfish greed.
A book just published ' Yob Nation ' by Francis Gilbert blames Thatcher
[ among others ] for todays yobbish behaviour problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: David C. Carter
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 05:02 AM

I scrolled down so fast,to avoid the cut and paste,that I seem to have missed the bit about where she << walked upon the water>>.DRAT!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 07:04 AM

I dont know what anti irish has to do with this thread?
Is it anti Irish to blame the IRA for cocking up at Brighton?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Nuclear Fish
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 08:56 AM

Lets kill the Thatcher beast, good boithday presink.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: melodeonboy
Date: 24 Mar 06 - 12:27 PM

I would think twice about wishing happy birthday (and "many happy returns" is right out!) to anyone who's been pals with both Pinochet and (when it suited her, and rather more discreetly!) Saddam.

TTFN


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 05:27 AM

Burn the witch.
Kill the wrinkled old fascist slag.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Hillheader
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 06:25 AM

I was once barred from a quiz for answering the question "How is BSE better known" with the word "Thatcherism". It was in London though

For a "Prime Minister of England" she sure raped Central Scotland big style. Tell the (ex) steel workers of Motherwell to wish her "Happy Birthday". Or the shipyard workers of the Clyde as she sent order to Devonport at (in the end) twice the price.

The only birthday of hers I will celebrate is her (very) last one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: ifor
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 07:05 AM

I recall Elvis Costello'e song for Thatcher with great affection "Tramp The Dirt Down".
One thing about her..she could never walk down any street in England Scotland or Wales without being harangued or heckled unlike say,Michael Foot who would be greeted with affection .
ifor


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Shiplap Structure3
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 03:40 AM

Having watched the Pinochet play on the Bbc last night helped me remember why she occupies that special place in the spleen


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 07:40 AM

Francis Gilbert's book got a real rubbishing in ths sundays Times Eric, so I might give it a miss.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 08:29 AM

I've not read it ted, just what was reported in the Yorkshire Post, don't think I'll bother either.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Boston Boy
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 04:49 PM

Can we all please ignore this antique and the thread too !


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Bert
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 05:16 PM

She took away my vote the tin knickered bitch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 06:17 AM

How did Mrs T take away your vote Bert?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Bert
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 12:33 PM

I was working overseas and she had a referendum on the Common Market.

Because it was believed that a majority of Expatriots would vote against she withdrew the absentee voting privelege.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Boston Boy
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 02:22 PM

Please Bert, don't feed the two line poster. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Gedpipes
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 02:55 AM

Lovely to see a bit of tolerance Boston Boy
Blue skies
G


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 06:25 AM

Excellent programme on BBC4 last night, a reshowing of a 1974 edition of Panorama. Free collective bargaining, incomes policies, restraint of trade, Len Murray perma-glued to the steps of No10. You could almost hear Mrs Thatchers fine mind whirring away when she watched it at the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 09:53 AM

Ted are you Cecil Parkinson in disguise ? or Keith Joseph maybe or Bernard Ingham or any other such traitor to your class.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 10:00 AM

Sometimes one's tongue is firmly in one's cheek Eric.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 04:28 AM

I always value your erudite comments ted.


eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Cllr
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 06:10 AM

Thactcher the musical is well worth going to see
I saw it in Warwick day after it opened. Whatever your view on thatcher it does make you think and have a laugh at the same time.

Cllr


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 08:56 AM

A Musical!!!! Hardly a fitting tribute to Englands last decent Prime Minister. I would like to see this, but it's unlikely to ever play in Prescott's Peoples Republic of 'ull


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 09:30 AM

Travel ted, it broadens the mind.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,ES&L
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 10:45 AM

Ted in blue,

Tut, tut!

"England" and "People" in the possessive take an apostrophe!
We are pleased to note, however, the correct use of the apostrophe in "it's"; that impersonal pronoun of course does not take an apostrophe in the possessive.

ES&L


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 11:13 AM

Thanks for the English Grammar lesson there ESN. My written use of our glorious language is rather poor due to 50years of Comprehensive Education


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 06 Apr 06 - 02:54 PM

This has to be the most nauseating thread on Mudcat, Ted go and annoy some other site.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 07 Apr 06 - 02:48 AM

Is that the Provisional response or the official?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 07 Apr 06 - 03:00 AM

A Week from now the mad old bat will be closer to her 81st B'day than her 80th.
Let's allow her to get some sleep until then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 07 Apr 06 - 12:29 PM

When I read the posts from members with a brain, they all seem to remember what this witch did to the country during her stay in number 10. Then you read the rants from the three line poster !

Read in the paper recently that she suffers constant frustration at her inability to communicate and converse. And suffers from depression due to her active mind and failing health, cries a lot.

Such wonderful news, lets hope she lives until she is 95.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 06 - 10:59 AM

well Ted is quite right she was England's first prim minters because the marjoirty of people of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales didn't vote for her or her party


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 06 - 11:00 AM

English first Woman prime minister.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookebrough
Date: 08 Apr 06 - 03:52 PM

I must admit I actually did admire the lady. I myself saw her as our first lady, and the one who gave such strength to so many other women throughout the eighties. Sadly it's well known in circles that she has become a chronic alcoholic and depends on over the counter medication a lot. Her closest friends say her staff change monthly. So so sad to see such a fine lady from my native Finchley end her days in such a manner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 08 Apr 06 - 07:20 PM

Closest thing England had to Adolph Hitler. Proves that dictators can be elected.

Hope she lives well into her 160's, Divis....


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 04:55 AM

So she is drunk out, and beating drugs into her ! and f...ing and blinding at her staff, come on Gillian, give us more on the oul tart !


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 06:25 AM

Thatcher will never die, she is not human.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Nuclear fish
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 06:27 AM

Then lets get together and kill it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 09:20 AM

Oh dear, old bow tie seems to have went missing !


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Cllr
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 11:09 AM

I think M.Thatcher was a fantastic politician and a great leader. Her achievements are numerous, as are her detracters. Any one who thinks that wishing her the evil that they do on this thread i feel sorry for and that the rationalisations for such is pitiful.

Best thing of all though is that her influence on british society can't be denied - whether you like it or not despite any name calling you resort to. 8-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 01:50 PM

Dear Cllr
You must be a fellow drinker or drug user if your in her defence. We are so so sorry for you. Get another round in old boy !


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Apr 06 - 04:05 AM

Cllr, yeah, just another apologist who did well out of Thatchers greed is good ethic.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 06 - 04:49 AM

Well said eric, just about sums him up. Also I feel the other three line poster just suffers from delusions of grandeur.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 10 Apr 06 - 06:37 AM

She did what needed to be done.

Yes, she did it in a very uncomprimising manner that has lead to some problems, but the trade unions were a lovley group of sensible and moderate people, who would have comprimised in three seconds flat if she'd said please. Clearly the 1970's were an close approximation of paradise. Who needs electricity, or to work for more than 3 days a week?

If her detractors round here refuse ro recognise there were problems before her, then it is inevitable they will view her actions as evil. For the sane, it's not quite so clear cut.


PS, would the guests mind giving themselves some names when they pop by to say nasty things?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 06 - 09:00 AM

Get another round of drink in, Maggies glass is empty, get Bunnahabhain one when your at it.

Bunnahabhain she is looking staff if your interested.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Cllr
Date: 10 Apr 06 - 04:08 PM

Whatever dude, if thats the best you can come up with I will go and share a glass of islay with Bunnahabhain, Cllr

PS Bunnahabhain: IVDFF was really good and i did get a t-shirt


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 12:55 AM

Don't all you apologists attach any significance to the fact that you are in a vast minority here about Thatcher ?

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 02:26 AM

"Don't all you apologists attach any significance to the fact that you are in a vast minority here about Thatcher ?

eric"

No eric, should we? Reading most of the claptrap from Margaret Thatcher's detractors on this site, the only significant factor to come out of it is the complete and utter lack of substantiation, fact or arguement to support their wilder accusations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 03:01 AM

I envy the old folks who rebuilt Britain in the 50's and 60's
and lived to see the positive results of their hard work and commitment..
but who were also fortunate enough to die
before Thatcher and her cut-throat crew sneaked up from behind
and asset stripped the bounty of their labour..

my nan wasn't so fortunate..
she grew older and angry and sick to death of what she saw Thatcher inflict on our town and family.

my old mum firmly believes my nan is waiting in the afterlife
to personaly take care of Thatcher
when her time is up...

and my mum is queuing up and spiritually tooling up to help out
when its also her time to go..

sometimes i can take comfort im my mums personal religious belief


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookebrough
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 04:39 AM

Teribus
I do beg your pardon, none of the facts that I contributed are claptrap or lacking in substantiation.

I actually could say a lot more. Besides the drink and drug fuelled outbursts, there was always fear and trepidation among her male staff as even in her later years she craved jockeying.

This is not wild accusations, Denis spoke on more than one occassion about her appetite for young men. It's will Documented.

If you haven't heard about it, you clearly don't move in the right circles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Cllr
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 07:47 AM

I happen to admire thatcher but not in a completly uncritical way, there are arguments for and against. I have had some very interesting (and enjoyable) conversations with people who hold strong left wing views.

I only say with certainty
1) the vitriol with which some people are posting says more about them than it does about anyone else and
2)she has had an udeniable effect on british society.

those of you who wish too can carry on making inane comments. As I said earlier "whatever dude"


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookebrough
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 09:03 AM

Cllr
These are facts which I feel need said. We can't hide from the truth and I hope our American friends here enjoy this side of her life.

We are all proud of our Britishness, but she came across an this Iron Lady in public, but in private she bullied staff, had a drink/drugs problem and craved un natural fornacation with young men.

Fact is fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Purdy
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 05:50 PM

Anyone heard Mrs. Thatcher admitted to hospital today ? Daughter and son seen going in to London Hospital late afternoon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 06:16 PM

Oh! Can it be true? Be still my heart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Birdy
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 07:32 PM

So far, not a dickie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 02:06 AM

If so, I hope she recovers to live a long life.

eric


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