BS: On strike and in contempt of court

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 04:34 PM

If Canada manages to reinstate worker power to equal the power of capital, would some of you like to come to England to help us achieve the same?

Don - Thatcher did worse. She sequestrated all NUM assets and charged her accountants bills to the union. Power to the people.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 07:24 PM

If Canada manages to reinstate worker power to equal the power of capital, would some of you like to come to England to help us achieve the same?

Don - Thatcher did worse. She sequestrated all NUM assets and charged her accountants bills to the union. Power to the people.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,parent
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 07:51 PM

sure; teachers spend the summer months off 'planning' how much do you have to 'plan'? isnt that what all those pro-d days are for?

if you add it up youre looking at 12weeks off with stats..
and whether its $39k (as stated in the Vancouver Sun) or $35k as stated by Dianavan, it still not bad for starting..

'businessmen who have easier jobs and get paid millions'..
sure maybe the odd CEO.. but the vast majority of business owners in Canada are small businesses and
most business owners work longer hours than any teachers I know and are lucky to take a couple of weeks off a years.

(but hey, you can start your own business and be a millionaire too..)

the fact is that a number of issues are distorted by the BCTF,
and its not just the Liberal Govt, they havent had a contract in 12years - even under the Leftist pro-labour NDP - who totally mismanaged the economy and were totally obliterated in the 2001 election. (They've only started to get back some seats in the last election)

namely, that Education funding under the Liberal govt. has decreased, whereas in fact there are 30,000 less students than 2001 and per/student funding is actually as high as it has ever been (from today's paper)..

no other province in Canada has class size as a bargaining issue.
and under the current govt. there are class size limits ie. up to 22

the real issue is the right to strike, theyve been declared an essential service, and if you feel everyone has the right to strike
then you should be prepared to watch your house burn down while the firefighters are on strike, or your car stolen while the police are on strike etc...

iF as you say, diana that the BC students are doing well(ranking thirdin nationwide tests) then whats the problem?

'you get what you pay for' not true, I came from a small European country and came to canada as a child only to see an inferior education system, (2years behind in math), gym class only once a week,when we had it every day in Europe, and I know my country didnt have a bigger education budget than Canada - they just made time for it.

Case in point as well: Americans spend more on medical care than anywhere else in the world but are ranked about 10th in the world for the actual care they get.

and yeah I dont expect teachers to be babysitters, and I expect parents to be active in their kids education.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 09:44 PM

We're holding our breath. It looks like there is some movement. We are waiting for the non-binding recommendations from the mediator. Both sides will then have to agree or disagree. Then the teachers will vote. The other unions are standing by us. The Federation of Labour has agreed not to strike in Vancouver until they know the result of our vote.

Charmion - Yes, it is very painful when a co-worker crosses the line. One person in our school did just that. She's retiring next year and didn't do it for the money but as a political statement even though she has benefitted from the Union for 30 years. She will have to live with that decision for the rest of the year. At the moment she is the object of ridicule. Some people want to have their cake and eat it too. So far, only 14 of 40,000 have crossed. We are not very militant but are quite capable of scorn. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

I have had the job of supporting staff members who are having moments of weakness. Most are hurting financially and it is very difficult. It takes a great deal of strength and moral resolve to stay out this long. Younger teachers must realize that if they cross, that action will follow them throughout their career. We are resourceful and those that have large overdrafts at low rates are loaning to those in need. When we find that anyone is in financial difficulty, they receive a belated birthday greeting and a little gift. ;>)

It is amazing how much courage we have when we all stick together and have the support of students and parents and other unions. It feels good to be able to stand up to injustice and demand what is fair.

I know in the end, we will compromise but I hope that we have demonstrated that, in unity, we have strength. I hope that other workers are watching and realize that the government is not all powerful.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 10:49 PM

Guest, parent - We cross posted.

Class size limits vary according to the grade but there is no weighting factor for students with special needs and there is no grievance procedure for teachers who are given 'more than their share'. There is alot more involved than the facts and figures given by the bean counters. Children are not beans.

No other province in Canada has had a contract legislated without negotiation.

The real issue is not the "right to strike" as you have stated. The real issue is the right to a negotiated contract.

We did not like the 'essential service' designation but we accepted it and proceeded to play according to the rules. The govt. changed the rules in the middle of the game. We did not walk out until the government refused to negotiate and once again, imposed a contract on us - a contract that had been stripped of class size and work load provisions. The real issue is standing up to injustice. Legislation is not negotiation!

I already gave a link to the contract and what has been stripped. Before you start spouting facts and figures, I suggest you read it.

... and no, pro-d days are not for lesson planning. They are for updating and developing our own education. Its our chance to learn new methods and keep abreast of changes in the provincial curriculum.

Although our students have done very well internationally, the current downward spiral we are witnessing on the front lines means that we will not be able to maintain those standards. Those students came from a system that has endured deep cuts in the last 10 years. In addition, the profession is not attracting the quality of students, at the university level, that it once did. If the educational system is not repaired immediately, the future of education is bleak indeed.

Comparing the working conditions of teachers to small business people is like comparing apples and oranges. Thats another topic entirely. If you want my job, you can have it when I retire in a couple of years. I hear they will be crying for teachers.

BTW - If you came to Canada from a 'small European country', you came for a reason and were given (on a platter) an environment that was fair and equitable. That was not given to the people of Canada by the government. It was gained by the blood, sweat and tears of our mothers and fathers in the labour movement. I'm sorry if this action by the labour unions has inconvenienced you but maybe its time you made a little sacrifice of your own.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 11:00 PM

Dear Auggie - I got those figures from the Vancouver Elementary School Teachers Assc. website. You might want to check on it. Not all districts and provinces are the same. Seems to me that I started at about $24,000.00 ten years ago. I'm not exactly sure what it is today or in your daughter's district.

Just the same, its a good second income, but its pretty hard to make ends meet if you are the only wage earner and have a loan to repay. The reason that teachers are mostly women is that men would never put up with the pay or the working conditions. We're trying to improve that. Tell her to hang in there.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 01:07 AM

Hey "Guest [right-wing!] parent"! With as much respect as I can muster [ though I suspect that your anti teacher sentiments spring from ignorance rather than malice]your poor head is apparently full of bumblebees! You sound just as the letter writer in the Vanc. "Sun" came acroos the other day when he pontificated about teachers "take home salary" being such and such, and that "before overtime is added". I expect many teachers had a laugh at the obvious complete lack of knowledge displayed--although they could be forgiven for maybe a tiny fit of anger that a supposedly reputable newspaper could knowingly publish such nonsense. Perhaps, being a right wing paper, they deliberately feed the susceptible minds of folks like yourself? A couple of snippets of info. for you---Teachers do NOT get holiday pay when they are on their "summer break"; they are literally unemployed [with no benefits!] Their "pro-days" have , since this blundering bunch were elected in B.C., been hijacked as far as subject matter is concerned. They are compelled to abide by dictated "guidelines" as set by non-teaching government bodies. My partner is a grade one teacher, with a Masters degree in Education. In her class of 26, there are SIX "special needs " kids. The assistance she gets in ensuring the continued progress of her class while trying to give the best possible to these six kids has become so minimal as to be derisory. Somebody had to take some action for the sake of the youngsters ---and, yes, for the teaching conditions--and the teachers have initiated such action. For the sake of B. C., and its children, they MUST come out of this with something other than a lasting, debilitating bitterness.
   Tonight, I was pleased to be part of a group which supplied a musical break during an inter-union meeting in our home town. I am with dianavan, my Partner, and all others who see what is lacking in B.C. schools. Hang in there, folks!!

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 07:05 AM

dianavan - 19 Oct 05 - 12:16 AM & others, very informative and very well put - Good luck to yourself and your colleagues.

System over here in such a situation where essential services are involved. If a strike is called it can only last a certain time at which point the Government steps in and the matter is referred to arbitration adjudicated by independent third parties. Their decision is binding.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 07:00 PM

"The reason that teachers are mostly women is that men would never put up with the pay or the working conditions."

Tell me about THAT!

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Auggie
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 09:24 PM

I always thought it worked the other way around.

The reason the pay and working conditions continue to be as they are is that most teachers aren't men.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 09:40 PM

Anyone who tries to demonize teachers is beneath contempt.

No more replies to the troll "Parent".

Support the teachers!

Gray D

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,parent
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 09:57 PM

boab, hilarious that you think Im right wing.
and anti-teacher.. Ive had some very influential teachers growing up
and I dont doubt for a moment that it is hard work, and important work.
I have in fact worked for years with autistic, as well as other handicapped kids - and have pretty much seen any behaviour you can name...

I do disagree that with the way Jinny Sims the head of the BCTF has portrayed herself as some kind of Rosa Parks...
the discussion above seems to imply that teachers are having a difficult time making ends meet and have to work in the summer months to make it up... which I dont believe for a minute..

according the the BCTF's own website the Average BC teachers salary is
$60,500 per year. here
likewise a starting fulltimeteacher makes around $35,000 per year.
here
(in 2001 numbers)
Not that teachers dont deserve it, But it is pretty decent coin for 10months of the year.. plus 2 weeks at Christmas
and a week at Spring Break.

(and no I didnt think they got vacation pay in the summer)

teachers consider themselves 'professionals' but its rare to see unionized workers as 'professionals'.

my neighbour who runs a small printing business just came out of a divorce with his wife of 40 years. She's a retired teacher and makes more money on her pension than he brings home - working by the way 6days a week 7-5pm per day for the last dozen years or so,
and she wanted half the business even though she never set foot in the shop for 30 years. I digress but its hard to sympathize..

I also run a small business, and employ several people,
Im lucky if I get 2-weeks off a year. I also pay for peoples medical dental benefits, and by law pay dollar for dollar peopless cpp and workers comp and $1.40 to dollar for EI..and am an unpaid tax collector for the govt.

and get this if my business
goes under for any reason or I get sick for an extended length of time, I cant even collect the benefits I have to pay for..
thats the real world.. so get the bumblebees out of YOUR head.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 10:01 PM

I kept track of my hours one year. I worked 2257, and that did NOT include about 200 hours that I performed various functions for my Association. (The 2257 hour figue is accurate to within ten hours either way.) FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 10:06 PM

See I missed the 'r' in figure.

Those hours included teaching time, marking time, planning time and extra-curricular time. FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 10:43 PM

Starting salaries in Alberta, 2005
4 years education- $45,000 approx. (no longer hiring in this scale)

6 years education- $48,000 approx. (Master's degree has been required for the last two years)

For the first year or two, a new probationary teacher may find only a fractional job available (e. g. 0,6; but often she is able to find a 0.4 position at another school).

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 11:06 PM

Forgot to give the Alberta website- Scroll down to graphs for provincial comparisons. Note that with 11 years experience and the now required Master's degree, a teacher receives $78,000 in compensation.

Alberta Teachers Salaries

For comparison- Starting salaries for B. S. Electrical, Mechanical or Computer Engineering (4-year education) approx. $50,000-52,000 in 2003. Many, however, obtain a M. S. degree before entering the work force.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 01:51 AM

Q, something else that might put wages in further perspective regarding teacher's salaries across Canada, is that, as of the 2nd quarter of 2005, the average price of a single detatched bungalow in Vancouver was a whopping $481,667.

This is more than $100,000 greater than a comparable house in Toronto, almost twice as much as a house in Calgary, about 3 times the price of a house in Halifax and more than 4 times the price of one in Moncton, New Brunswick.

Or to view it from a different angle, in order to live in the vicinity of one's workplace on a starting teacher salary in equivalent accommodation, across Canada, in Moncton NB, it will cost 3.4 X your wages, in Halifax NS 4.5X, in Calgary Alta 5.6X, Toronto 9.7X and in Vancouver BC, 12.7 X your wages. Of course, I doubt many on a single income, comparable to a teacher's, would qualify to buy a house in Vancouver, nor is it in the economic realm of a lot of other professions either.

When this current crop of BC teachers retires in a few years, I can't envision many wanting to "man" the battlements in their place, given how they are treated as a profession and the cost of living, particularly on the south coast.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 03:56 AM

Funny you should mention this:

One of the non-binding recommendations from Vince Ready is that we accept an equalization of salaries, throughout B.C.

That means that the nearly $3,500.00 in my lost wages and strike pay(as a result of my protest), will go to pay the salary increase of my colleagues in rural areas - even though their cost of living is much less.

Where is the justice in that?

It will also pay for long term disabilility (which not many qualify for) and an increase in wages for teachers on call.

Everything else is a promise to consult. (We know what that means!)

Altogether, the govt. will put about one million dollars into the system and our lost wages equal almost exactly the same amount.

There is exactly 0 in those recommendations that will directly benefit me and my students. The primary teachers of Vancouver are, once again, subsidizing the system.

We will probably vote this week-end to accept these recommendations because we have been away from our students too long.

Personally, I will vote no. I'm all for sacrificing for the greater good but I contend that the government has not contibuted any more to this settlement than it has cost me, personally. No loss to them, big loss to me.

Like I say, the vote will probably be 'yes' and the losers are not only the Vancouver primary teachers and their students, but also the parents and other labour unions who have supported us.

I am hoping for a 'no' vote because I think the only thing that will make this govt. put additional money into education is a general strike. I honestly think such a punitive govt. deserves to be brought to their knees by the workers of this province.

If they can do this to us, they can do this to you.

I will guarantee that if I have to go back into the classroom on Monday, my caseload of fifty will be off-loaded onto the classroom teachers. I refuse to try to make up for the defecits in a system that is broken. That means that the higher-end of primary children needing learning assistance will no longer be given additional support. These are usually the kids who are getting very little help at home for one reason or another.

It breaks my heart.

"There you go honey, sink or swim."

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 02:31 PM

My figures were meant to show that salaries were lower in B. C. than in neighboring Alberta.
As Metchosin says, there is no way that a starting teacher, or one with experience, can qualify for a house. Decent apartments and living costs plus Canada's high taxes make it difficult for a teacher to save towards qualifying for a home.
The same is true for trained nurses, and we have lost many recent graduates to the States.

Unless the teachers are part of a two-income family, a home ownership is not an option.

Something constructive must be done for special-needs children. Dumping them into the classroom with normal children saves money, but is short-changes both them and those with normal abilities.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 02:46 PM

The union has suggested that we accept the non-binding recommendations. We vote tomorrow.

The Primary Teachers of Vancouver have definitely subsidized this job action which does not benefit our students or us.

The union has let us down, the govt. has let us down and the administrators have let us down. I will reduce my caseload by half and return those children to their classroom teachers. I cannot shoulder the responsibility alone.

Its better to be able to instruct 25 students than to babysit 50.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,parent
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 03:20 PM

who says you should be guaranteed a detached single family house?
housing costs have gone up for everyone, and most people in Europe
cant even think about owning a detached house, and yet they still enjoy a good life.

the high cost of housing is due to a growing population and other factors - and Vancouver is one of the most desirable places to live anywhere.

according to statisticscanada.ca the average household income in Canada
is $64,900 (I tried to make a link but it didnt work) just go in and type household income.

so given a household of two teachers - and given the average
$60,500 according to the bctf site that household would be close to double the average Can. household income. They shouldnt have a problem getting a mortgage for a house in Vancouver.
thats all hypothetical of course but Im sure people will say what abou t single income teachers or ones that are starting out .. but again you could say that about other occupation.

anyway, having said all the above, Iam no fan of Gordon Campbell and the Liberals, and believe the BCTF had to do something which it did.
Even if the right to strike was taken away they did it anyway, probably calculating that a fine will be covered by the strike fund
- Im sure half a million sounds like a lot, but it could have been per day..

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 04:46 PM

Well, guest parent, why waste 6 years on university training if you don't have goals such as home ownership, a family and education for your children? Just go to work for Walmart, City Sanitary Engineers, etc.
Europe ain't North America; routes to home ownership are different (The figures I find, however, indicate a high ownership percentage in many European countries, even if not detached).

Average household income in Canada, as elsewhere, includes those at the bottom of the food chain. It is meaningless (or should be) when applied to people with a Master's degree.

Statistics for B. C.: For those who like to quote them, without adding necessary qualifiers (1991; Canadian Census figures for B. C. out-of-date).
Householders owning own home- 64%
Householders age 25-34 owning own home- 14% (was 20% in 1981)
www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/data/cen91/issue09.pdf

More random statistics (meaningless without income, loan, living cost, government policy, etc., etc., qualifiers)-
Home ownership Ireland- 80% (cost av. 221000 euros)
New Zealand- 67%
Taiwan- 60%
(Official report, tabled in Scotland, in a report on loans to students)

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 05:40 PM

guest, parent, what I was trying to demonstrate was the deep disparity in living costs from area to area in this country, not the right to own a detached dwelling.

If it would make you feel better, we could just as easily contrast the price of a 10 X 12 flop house room in Vancouver's east end with a comparable housing unit on the east coast, if you think that might be a more relevant in the socio-economic scheme of things, relative to teachers as a profession.

Its ironic that in some parts of this country, that if you cannot afford to buy a house to live in, you can buy a house speculatively and rent it to yourself, thus assuring low rent and a modest profit for yourself as your own ruthless landlord....And you get your dummy tenant to pay off your mortgage. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Auggie
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 06:51 PM

Oh Q! In our district, common sense is not allowed. Your comments about short changing special needs students by dumping them into a classroom full of "normal" kids would instantly classify you as a reprobate of the worst degree (which is something I suspect your not), at least in the eyes of our local school board.

Our county school boards, in their infinite wisdom, dismantled a long standing county wide program for special needs students, pronouncing instead, that these children's needs (and the needs of "normal" children as well) would be better served by mainstreaming as many as possible back into conventional classrooms. The reasoning? Both groups of students would better learn to socialize with each other, the affixing of damaging, artificial labels would be avoided, and oh yeah, it would save money. Alot of money. Any arguement to the contrary usually devolved to "separate but equal" (i.e. if that wasn't OK in the 50's with people of differing color, why is it OK now with people of differing intellect?). The fact that that analogy is specious notwithstanding, our classrooms of up to 30 students now often have 3, 4, or more highly disruptive individuals who consume a disproportionate amount of time.

Anyone who finds this change of benefit to either group of students has spent precious little time in the classroom.
It does save a boatload of money at first glance. Still, if you're paying less but receiving less, have you really saved anything?

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 07:45 PM

Rant alert- Yeah, the same moronic mainstreaming happened here in Alberta. The stress of trying to teach under these conditions led to some of our best retiring at the first (almost) affordable moment or going into private schools. A result is the rapid growth of private schooling, used by those who can afford it.
Of course with the separate system here, catholic students are separated from the protestant, non-religious and other category, and the Muslims and Hebrews also are becoming largely independent of the two main streams.

A daughter of mine is starting a private school in the small B. C. center in which she lives. Fernie already has one, and parents in several other towns are thinking about them.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 10:04 PM

I was and am an advocate of mainstreaming with support.

Unfortunately when they mainstreamed the students with special needs they didn't transfer the money or the support. Now they are often sitting in classrooms with untrained support (babysitters) and there are often no resources or materials appropriate to their needs.

Most classroom teachers are trained only to meet the needs of the average student. Of course, there were always those that needed a little extra help but now those kids don't get the attention they deserve because of the programming needs of the special needs students.

The trend towards private schools is exactly what the government wants. They underfund the system and burden the teachers with a job thats impossible to do with the resources available. The govt. is destroying public education so that it will be easier to privatize. Please don't play into their hands. Pressure your govt. to provide the necessary funds so that we can continue to provide equal educational opportunies for all of our children.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 02:50 AM

In Australia, we have a fairly large private school segment. They have convinced the Govt that they should have a share of taxpayer's funds too - so it isn't cheaper in the long run...

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Metchosin
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 03:43 AM

The taxpayers of BC also fund accredited private schools as well.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: ossonflags
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:43 AM

More power to our comrades in BC on strike

And a message to the begrudgers ;

"If you don't stand for something you will stand for anything"

Yours in solidarity

Mick McGarry

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,p
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:14 PM

why do you need a masters degree or phd to teach grade 3?

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:15 PM

Ya don't need a Master's or PhD to teach Grade 3.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 05:24 PM

Peace, new hires (for the last two years) in Alberta must have 6 years training to teach in the system- master's equivalent. Teachers in the system before this change may teach with 4 years training but they are on a different schedule unless they upgrade by taking additional academic work. See graphs of these schedules linked 21 Oct 05, 11:06 pm.

The list of Alberta charter and private schools runs to 16 pdf pages, most of them eligible for funding. Grades PC to grade 12. Teachers must meet the provincial requirements.

Of course Alberta also has home schooling- "the fastest growing education trend."

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 05:31 PM

Pardon me, Q. Thought that was a blanket statement to do with all schools. Pardon me.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 08:39 AM

Thank you, teachers, for standing up for the rights of all of us.
At 5 am BC time the radio news just said the teachers voted 77% to accept . . . what? A vague undertaking on the government's part to consult? But compared to scuttling back to work at the first crack of the whip, er, I mean the first rustle of an injunction, this counts as a victory. I was talking to a young teacher on the line on Friday who, even after the gutting of the health sector contracts, hadn't realized how contemptuous of workers' rights the Campbell Liberals really are. She realizes it now, and is appalled that she and her colleagues have sacrificed so much to achieve a merely moral victory. Twas ever thus though--workers' gains are paid for a hundred times over by their sacrifices. A century ago the Vancouver Island coal miners had to strike for months and stand up to armed militia after the company refused to hear their safety committee. "Our union miners faced guns and jail/Hundreds of us were held without bail," goes the song about that dispute.
BTW--the (un)official folk song of the teachers' strike is Woody Guthrie's "Pretty Boy Floyd". During the debate on Bill 12, opposition MLA Corky Evans sang the line about getting robbed with a fountain pen on the floor of the legislature.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 09:21 AM

I have used that line many times as I tried to explain how the new robbers operate.

Bless you, brothers and sisters.

All the best,

Mick Lane
Union Organizer

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 11:01 PM

I'm back at school and glad to be there. Yes, once again, we paid for the gains out of our own wages but...

It was a victory for workers everywhere and we are very proud to have been the group who said, enough is enough! I really appreciate the supportive comments here and the support of union members everywhere. There are many contracts coming up for negotiation and I'm sure Campbell will not try to bully us by legislation in the future. He knows now that the unions are standing shoulder to shoulder.

We have also gained the respect and support of our students and parents and that is a victory in itself. Thats the main reason we decided to return to work. We want the parents on our side. We want parents to listen to us and realize that we really do care about the quality of education. Any improvement in our working conditions is also and improvement in their child's learning environment.

I truly hope that our victory signals a return to the rights of working people everywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 11:04 PM

"I truly hope that our victory signals a return to the rights of working people everywhere."

Amen to that, Dianavan. Glad for y'all.

Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 11:23 PM

Kim Petersen says it better than I do:

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Oct05/Petersen1022.htm

When people stand together, they can fight unjust laws and unjust governments. They can overturn corporate agendas and set us back on the path to achieving true democracy.

If anything, I hope we have given people hope.